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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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DAT_NOOB said:
Unfortunately don't have the time to go back through the whole story and link every time paul has shot someone mid monologue.
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If you can find even a single time he shot someone because they were monologuing and despite that being contraindicated by the situation, I'll admit you've got a good point. Until then, I'm not convinced.

I'll address the rest in pieces since I'm poor enough at formulating a coherent response when I'm not using a phone.
DAT_NOOB said:
I don't think time trapper broke the multiverse I think Krona broke the multiverse as seen when Overgirl was thrown into Earth 16 (or do you need a citation that shes a character in the story as well).
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OL is not Krona but sure, if you can give a convincing argument that OL is responsible for Krona's actions, then this'll be relevant.
DAT_NOOB said:
But since you asked Here is where he admitted to working with Krona and
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That's not something I asked for. Considering OL to be Time Trapper is slightly less ludicrous that Krona but it's still a stretch so again, give me an arguement that OL should be considered responsible for his actions and then we'll talk.
DAT_NOOB said:
Here is where the multiverse was broken or at least bent into sustaining a timeline that didn't exist.
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Vaermina has expressed a belief that the crisis is either not over or that this is the bad ending. I would agree that the multiverse was bent but that's not what you were arguing and I don't see any reason to think that a timeline and everyone in it being restored is a bad thing so, again, provide a good argument for considering the multiverse broken first.

As to the two edits, thank you for putting the effort in but as indicated above, not really relevant.
 
I mean... he changed the nature of the universe so that alternate timelines can actually exist now for his universe - That kind of thing has consequences. Still doesn't explain Renegade's timeline though - maybe he was originally put in a different universe - he didn't show up because he fought giant glowy hand and won.
 
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On the subject of Paragon and monologuing, the scene that comes to mind is him trapping Klarion and telling him that the only way he'll monologue is after making sure the villain is properly secured instead of being in the middle of a fight; I feel like he enjoyed the experience.

It would have been cool to see the metaphysical showdown between Constantine and Klarion in that scene, I think Zoat had written Rocket Red's interlude already so it wouldn't have been the first time the perspective shifted to a not-Paul (though even if it did, having it be a chapter about Chaos magic would be very appropriate).
 
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Darko said:
I mean, he's not wrong.

Earth has known that there is life on other planets for at least a decade with Superman around, and there may have been alien visitations in the past that have been recorded.

The UN honestly should have had some ways of dealing with an alien polity trying to make contact.

Also Manga Khan would have probably done this on his own even if he wasn't a member of the OLC.
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Yeah. Honestly, Earth is extremely lucky that it's a non-malevolent salesman instead of, say, The Reach.
 
hums I wonder if the fleet would want to try to do something with Mars while they are at it - the 'unclaimed' status type thing is something that they would likely have an even better case for on Mars.
 
Handlewithcare said:
Hah! Even the robot is tired of his shit!

I wonder what Dox is planning though, assuming he sent him?

Galxy wide trade networks would increase interdependency and therefore, potentially, strengthen peace efforts.

Maybe Khan is meant to help facilitate these?
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My assumption is either the obvious, he isn't a member of the Corps, or the other is that Dox looked for people that would Want to do this, and Khan was the only Orange Lantern that fit the profile.
 
l---erddad---l said:
My assumption is either the obvious, he isn't a member of the Corps, or the other is that Dox looked for people that would Want to do this, and Khan was the only Orange Lantern that fit the profile.
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He is a member of the OLC.

Commanding the various orange lanterns to do things is going to be a hassle if they can't find the motivation to do them.

Really hope Jevek or the other Controllers are working on more living weapons like Effigy, the guy had a point that Orange Lanterns aren't exactly all that reliable in a war if they don't feel like fighting.
 
Darko said:
He is a member of the OLC.

Commanding the various orange lanterns to do things is going to be a hassle if they can't find the motivation to do them.

Really hope Jevek or the other Controllers are working on more living weapons like Effigy, the guy had a point that Orange Lanterns aren't exactly all that reliable in a war if they don't feel like fighting.
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Orange Lanterns are really just agents on contract. Orange Lantern Ring in exchange for taking on jobs from the OLC, meaning that in case of emergency there are Lanterns that can respond to emergencies but mostly you want normal weapons and soldiers. Aside from that, though, I feel like they mostly freelance, unless they Want to be be part of running and maintaining the OLC.
 
l---erddad---l said:
Orange Lanterns are really just agents on contract. Orange Lantern Ring in exchange for taking on jobs from the OLC, meaning that in case of emergency there are Lanterns that can respond to emergencies but mostly you want normal weapons and soldiers. Aside from that, though, I feel like they mostly freelance, unless they Want to be be part of running and maintaining the OLC.
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The current recruits are most likely warriors that want to prove their worth and skill and fighting an empire as powerful as the Reach, who even the GLC was unable to defeat, will certainly do that
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Aquaman… Aside from the obvious conflict of interest, you don't… Actually have the authority to give me orders. I'm not-" He grimaces. "-a member of the Justice League, and I'm not one of your subjects. If you want me to do you a fav-?"

"Orange Lantern." Batman turns to face me. "Go to the Cluster ship and talk to Manga Khan. Try and find out for certain exactly what he wants here."

"Certainly, sir." I raise my right index and middle fingers to my forehead. "I'll let you know when I have something."
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wait, am i missing something here? why is he following batman's orders if he doesn't have to follow Aquaman's? i thought that deal that OL made with WW and Bats was only for a year, wouldn't it have expired by now?
 
BartlettMagic said:
wait, am i missing something here? why is he following batman's orders if he doesn't have to follow Aquaman's? i thought that deal that OL made with WW and Bats was only for a year, wouldn't it have expired by now?
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He's more used to following his orders and probably respects him the most among the members of the League, aside from Alan and Diana.
 
BartlettMagic said:
wait, am i missing something here? why is he following batman's orders if he doesn't have to follow Aquaman's? i thought that deal that OL made with WW and Bats was only for a year, wouldn't it have expired by now?
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Darko said:
He's more used to following his orders and probably respects him the most among the members of the League, aside from Alan and Diana.
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Shotiegun11 said:
No, pretty sure the only reason is that Batman is in charge of the Team and the SI is on the Team.
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Batman is in charge of the Team and OL does respect Batman, Alan and Diana the most, so I think if they asked he would have, at most, presented his disagreement but not to that level of snarky shittiness, but I'm pretty sure that was just OL digging in the fact that Aquaman is not in charge of him, considering that heroes tend to assume that every hero involved in the situation will automatically be on their side, OL just wants to dig in that point that Aquaman doesn't get to dictate what OL does.
 
jaelin910 said:
If you can find even a single time he shot someone because they were monologuing and despite that being contraindicated by the situation, I'll admit you've got a good point. Until then, I'm not convinced.
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The times I remember are early in the story as I said I don't have time to search through the story only for every time paul shot someone for monologuing

jaelin910 said:
OL is not Krona but sure, if you can give a convincing argument that OL is responsible for Krona's actions, then this'll be relevant.
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Vaermina said:
The bad Karma from helping to break the Multiverse.
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As the previous citation's stated he got Krona's help, to attempt to sustain a timeline that didn't exist, Krona while helping time trapper paul (who is technically paul only separated by the time travel shenanigans). He assisted Krona, Krona broke the multiverse hence "helping Krona break the multiverse."

Even ignoring that Para-paul assisted time trapper in re-creating a Neverwhere universe, as seen in the first edit the timeline didn't exist.

jaelin910 said:
That's not something I asked for. Considering OL to be Time Trapper is slightly less ludicrous that Krona but it's still a stretch so again, give me an arguement that OL should be considered responsible for his actions and then we'll talk.

Vaermina has expressed a belief that the crisis is either not over or that this is the bad ending. I would agree that the multiverse was bent but that's not what you were arguing and I don't see any reason to think that a timeline and everyone in it being restored is a bad thing so, again, provide a good argument for considering the multiverse broken first.
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If not for the actions of time trapper then Krona would not have broken the multiverse (in the manner relevant to the episode)

Paul knows Krona is bad news as seen by Fallout paul recognising him and time trapper still worked with him.

The citation in the second edit has someone literally falling through the multiverse.

Here is where it is implied that krona was responsible for that universe breaking shenanigans.

Just because something is broken doesn't mean its bad, supersonic aircraft break the sound barrier that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

jaelin910 said:
As to the two edits, thank you for putting the effort in but as indicated above, not really relevant.
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The citation where the multiverse was breaking isn't relevant? The Citation that shows us that the timeline was unsustainable wasn't relevant?
 
I just realized that some of the babies Paul helped the Amazons with would have been born by this point (born for ~6 months, given that the first baby was conceived on January 9th 2011, and we're currently in April 2012)

Do you think they brought in foreign OBGYNs and Pediatricians for the births? I hope everything went well for those kids.

Edit: Assuming the birth wasn't premature, the first baby born on Themiscyra in more than a thousand years would have been around the time Paul was stealing fruit from Eden in Alienated
 
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Darko said:
He is a member of the OLC.

Commanding the various orange lanterns to do things is going to be a hassle if they can't find the motivation to do them.

Really hope Jevek or the other Controllers are working on more living weapons like Effigy, the guy had a point that Orange Lanterns aren't exactly all that reliable in a war if they don't feel like fighting.
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Orange Lanterns aren't really reliable period.

Now, if the Controllers are really smart, they wouldn't even go the living weapon route and instead be trying to recruit Alan to have him build a Blue corp so they can phase out Orange Light users.
 
Whenever Possible said:
I just realized that some of the babies Paul helped the Amazons with would have been born by this point (born for ~6 months, given that the first baby was conceived on January 9th 2011, and we're currently in April 2012)

Do you think they brought in foreign OBGYNs and Pediatricians for the births? I hope everything went well for those kids.

Edit: Assuming the birth wasn't premature, the first baby born on Themiscyra in more than a thousand years would have been around the time Paul was stealing fruit from Eden in Alienated
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I mean, it's not necessarily their first rodeo with childbirth even if it has been a long time. Maybe they got doctors in from outside. But I consider it if anything more likely that ancient midwives dusted off their scrolls and refreshed their memory in the months before the births started as well as prayed to Hera.
 
For those of you unfamiliar with Lord Manga Khan as he appeared in the comics, one of his many corporate projects is a mail order elocution course that teaches you how to speak melodramatically. The Lord Manga Khan School of Melodrama.

That is not a joke. Comics, everybody!
 
Caerwen said:
I mean, it's not necessarily their first rodeo with childbirth even if it has been a long time. Maybe they got doctors in from outside. But I consider it if anything more likely that ancient midwives dusted off their scrolls and refreshed their memory in the months before the births started as well as prayed to Hera.
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They might even be a little better than many modern doctors as it better not to give birth laying down and modern doctors have a tendency to (somewhat) lazily use C-sections to get it over with.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
The times I remember are early in the story as I said I don't have time to search through the story only for every time paul shot someone for monologuing
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The burden of proof lies on you. I've given an example of something that might convince me and if you can't provide evidence, then it doesn't really matter whether it's because you don't have time or it doesn't exist. Either find me something to convince me that OL would not be willing to listen to a monologue or stop making the claim.

DAT_NOOB said:
The citation where the multiverse was breaking isn't relevant?
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Unless you can convince me that OL is responsible for that? Yes. ...but I'll go into that below.
Frankly, I'm not sure you understood what you've been saying here; Vaermina holds the position that Time Trapper was essentially the final boss and that, by helping him, OL has fucked up the multiverse. I started off looking for Vae to provide evidence or arguments for that so when you say that they 'bent' the multiverse, you're either moving the goalposts or totally missing the point.

As to the actions of Time Trapper, your logic seems to go pretty much as follows
  • P1. If OL and Time Trapper are the same person, they are liable for each other's actions.
  • P2. OL and Time Trapper are the same person.
  • C1. They are liable for each other's actions.
And
  • P3. OL is liable for Time Trapper's actions.
  • P4. Time Trapper tried to work with Krona.
  • P5. Time Trapper is responsible for the actions of those he works with.
  • C2. OL is liable for trying to work with Krona and for the thing Krona did.
The problem here starts with premise two. OL and Time Trapper were the same people but they aren't now and I wouldn't blame OL for something Time Trapper did any more than I'd lock someone up for the crimes of their identical twin. Things Time Trapper does reflect on OL to a degree since they are things he would be willing to do in the same circumstances, sure, but he's not in those circumstances and so he didn't do those things.
Since P3 is based on the first conclusion, it's also bunk and P4 is reasonable but P5 I have issues with. Time Trapper presumably either didn't think Krona would betray him or knew all this would occur so either he didn't expect everything Krona did or he anticipated everything. Since the outcome seems pretty positive, I don't see an issue with the latter and while the former is rather negligent, it still doesn't make him fully responsible.

So yeah, if you've got an arguement for OL being responsible for bringing harm to the multiverse, I'm happy to be convinced.
 
Could someone find me all the Indigo Lantern chapters that took place in the 'The Boyz' universe, or teach me how to find them myself efficiently? I'm new to this site format, thanks in advance!
 
BartlettMagic said:
wait, am i missing something here? why is he following batman's orders if he doesn't have to follow Aquaman's? i thought that deal that OL made with WW and Bats was only for a year, wouldn't it have expired by now?
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I seem to recall something about Paul asking to rejoin the team when he came back from establishing the OLC. Perhaps he said he'd follow Batman's orders then.
 
Low Politics (part 6)
  • Threadmarks
    • 6th April
    04:23 GMT

    I'm standing in what appears to be a communal area on the command sphere of the Cluster ship, people-watching. I've identified several species so far, some wearing the symbol of the ClusterCorp and others not. Not everyone here is employed by the ClusterCorp directly; some are contractors while others actually pay for a berth and make money taking advantages of the opportunities Comic King creates. Some of them are AIs with robotic bodies and others are wearing the same sort of power armour as Comic King himself. Less garishly decorated, though.

    A gold-coloured L-series robot floats towards me. The model is highly customisable, but even though the head matches what I saw over my ring that doesn't mean that it's the same individual. If it even has human-equivalent intelligence.

    "Greeting, Illustres."

    "Hello. I'm sorry, you didn't say your name?"

    "I am L-Ron, majordomo to-."

    …

    "I said majordomo to-."

    I frown. "I'm not sure-?"

    "Majordomo to-."

    There's a thud on the far side of a nearby door.

    L-Ron sinks slightly in the air.

    "Excuse me."

    L-Ron turns away, floating over to the door control panel and extruding a small tool which it proceeds to insert into the door's control system. It chimes, the door opening momentarily to reveal Lord-Lantern Comic King on the far side.

    "I, Lord-L-!"

    The door closes again.

    "Ah."

    Why did we give this guy a power ring?

    "Should I go out and come in again?"

    "No, we can pretend that this didn't happen without you physically leaving." It disconnects from the door control. "This time for sure, m'lord!"

    "Understood, my loyal servant, secretary and lackey!"

    L-Ron floats in place for a moment.

    "I've asked him not to call me that."

    "Maybe you should consider unionising."

    BLAAARP BLAAARP BLAAARP-

    The passers-by dive for cover behind pillars, seating, suddenly appearing rows of chest-high walls or their more solid looking co-workers.

    -BLAAARP-!

    "Oh dear. You-"

    -BLAAAAAAAAAAAARP!

    "-shouldn't have said that."

    I don my armour and generate construct armour. But… Nothing appears to happen.

    "Um."

    "Perhaps they need oil-"

    Gatling laser turrets on ball mounts deploy from the ceiling, the walls, the floor and a flower bed.

    "-or perhaps not."

    They fire, and… They're lasers. If I was an unarmoured civilian, this would be quite deadly. As it is, my construct armour is entirely untroubled.

    "Not an organised labour friendly environment?"

    "To say the-" A stray laser shot hits him and deflects off his highly reflective outer casing. "-least, sir."

    I raise my left hand and destroy each turret with precision bolts of orange light.

    "Just so we're clear, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan is the one with the ring and not you, right?"

    He doesn't breathe, but I hear him sigh.

    "That is so, sir." He pauses. "Ahem!"

    "Ready!"

    "I am L-Ron, majordomo to..."

    The door slams open, and a figure in gold armour accessorised with a purple-with-orange-trim cape strides through.

    "Lord-Lantern Manga Khan! Which is me!"

    And there's an orange power ring on his left middle finger.

    "Here to gather resources from this world for the fungible glory of ClusterCorp! Earth's economic and fiscal distinctiveness shall be added to our own! Its financial systems will adapt to service us!"

    Why, Dox? Why did you do this?

    "Our thirst for profit knows no bounds! The resource requirements of ClusterCorp is my sole consideration! My first upon waking!"

    His species doesn't sleep.

    "My last upon retiring! And already as the Earth's planetary government reacts to our arrival with confusion, other free economic actors heed the call of profit! As the sole supplier of off-world services, ClusterCorp and licensed affiliates is perfectly placed to take advantage of a favourable trading environment!"

    There's a brief pause, and one of the ClusterCorp employees hiding behind a raised bed risks sticking his head up and clapping-.

    "Not yet!"

    He ducks back down again, arms over his head.

    "And light-touch regulatory regime!"

    "M'lord, they don't yet have a regulatory regime."

    "Then its touch cannot be anything but light! Furthermore, opportunities abound for establishing permanent trade posts and inflating demand further! What we exchange during the initial contact period is but the smallest fraction of what long-term transactioneering might profit us!"

    Well… Nice to know that he's thinking long term.

    "Even outside of our core competencies, opportunities abound for tech-divergent leverage! Already, multiple requests for freelance peacekeeping support services have been forwarded to our outsourcing-handlers!"

    Ooooh… Dear.

    Alright, the League can sort of blame me for that one.

    "But now I will consult with my valued external operating partner, the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps, providing a full briefing on corporate strategy so that on the morrow we may begin synergising with local assets and begin value-extraction in the most expedient manner!"

    "I'd be happy to, but-"

    "Excellent!"

    "-I'm afraid that a full consultation will have to wait. I have plans tomorrow."

    "Plans?! What plans could possibly be of more significance than the day upon which I, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan, first arrived at your planet?!"
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • I think that Dox did this to screw with OL for all the shit he put him through.

    And he may want to screw with him in a more sexual manner also.

    I'm fairly certain that Dox's type of romance is similar to that of a Cardassian, that being arguing with his potential partner until the romance part.

    Dox, while brilliant in many areas, is shit at interpersonal relationships, so it makes sense he would do this.

    And he also doesn't have that high tastes, he did date Blackfire in the comics.
     
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