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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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- self insert young justice
Mquz
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Hm... who else is powerful enough to bring up as a potential problem to Hinon? The Shade (Grayven did think about helping him during that one episode)? Not sure if she'll be able to actually help, but soul magic can't be THAT dissimilar to ring tech.
Zig
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Zoat changing something to avoid upsetting people? We're on forum #3 here.
Sceptic
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The first step towards fixing a problem is generally recognising that there is one.
Mquz
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Grayven knew Shade canon, so OL probably does too. If he used soul vision, he'd know for certain. They've met, but Shade wasn't too friendly - since OL constructified Dr. Morrow
Mquz
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One or 2 people were upset that Hinon was being seemingly a jerk - I don't see it. At most, she's a little cranky and talks to Paul on a familiar level. There wasn't anything that is against the rules of this site, and I don't even really get why people were that upset about it.
AtomicGeneral25
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What is this referring to again?
Stsword
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It's his origin in the comics, Garth was banished for having purple eyes, which by the by, are the sign that he inherited his family's vast store of magical energy which means he can unleash an Atlantean lich who wants to kill all of Atlantis to turn them into an undead slave army.
Likewise, Aquaman was left to die on a reef for the crime of being blond, so the Atlanteans were a real bunch of assholes in the comics.
Although I have to confess I actually enjoyed Aquaman as Aqua-Mowgli. Originally Aquaman was found as a feral waterchild by Mr Curry the lighthouse keeper, then DC retconned that, showing that feral Aquachild was adopted by dolphins, and was told "Okay, son, I love you, but you aren't a dolphin. You have that weird stringy stuff coming out of your head, and those things coming out of your flippers. So it's time for you to go be with your own kind," hence his going ashore to end up adopted by Mr Curry the Lighthouse Keeper.
No reason to believe anything like that happened to YJ Garth, but it's not like YJ definitely showed that Garth wasn't ever exiled for having purple eyes...
Mquz
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Except he was childhood friends with various kids at the academy, including Tula, before becoming Aquaman's page (or whatever he is).
Buggy123
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I mean, is the first one actually true? "Has a magical power that would kill us all" is a okay reason for banishment, even if you are kinda shooting yourself in the foot by giving the banished person a reason to hate you.
Stsword
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I don't believe the people doing the banishing knew about that though, because it was news to Garth.
I believe they were just superstitious, so think the Monty Python witch skit but not played for laughs.
In YJ Garth isn't from Poisedonis but from Crastinus. Zoat never mentioned where he was exiled from.
Hoard (part 7)
Mr Zoat
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11th January
09:35 GMT -5
"No."
He stares at me levelly for a moment. I put my right hand over my heart.
"I have not been in secret discussions with the government-."
"Have you perhaps been in some other sort of discussion?"
I smile. "Yes! See, I was overloading Sephtian with research projects, so I thought: I need this researched, who do I know who can do it who isn't linked into Sephtian's brain drain supply chain?"
Kaldur nods. "The government of Venturia."
"They have as little to do with Poseidonis as possible, but use basically the same thaumaturgical notation. Everything I'd already learned could be shared without having to explain it."
He exhales slowly, bowing his head slightly and closing his eyes for a moment. "What is the nature of the research you are having them perform?"
"I'm trying to study the relationship between the material universe and the Dream. I'm leaving exactly how they do it up to their researchers, because..." I shrug. "I would just be guessing. Is… There a problem?"
"How much progress have they made?"
"They haven't even finished setting up their forges yet." I shake my head. "I don't honestly see them achieving much within the lifetimes of the current generation of archmages. It's probably going to turn out to be one of those near-pointless resource sinks like the Large Hadron Collider, but… I've got the resources to spare, and I can afford to be optimistic." I frown in puzzlement. "Is there a problem?"
"Venturia is preventing Queen Ptra from returning to her home city to take her throne."
"I'm.. pretty sure that she already rules Aurania..?"
"No. Venturia."
"Um." I frown. "It was a while ago Diana told me about it, but… Didn't Ptra grow up in Aurania?"
"She split her time between Aurania and Poseidonis."
"Has she..? Ever been to Venturia?"
Kaldur doesn't immediately respond. Okay, what's happening? Queen Clea allied with the Nazis during World War Two. She agreed to raid Allied shipping in exchange for them recognising her claims to nearby islands. Diana fought her and.. sort of lost until Queen Cora -King Orin's grandmother- took command of the situation. Venturia broke their alliance, and the Allies agreed to abandon Atlantean territory once the war ended. Then… Something about Venturia and Aurania making a marriage alliance… Diana seemed a bit unclear on the details, but I know that something went wrong and Venturia has been isolationist ever since.
"Kaldur, whatever political problems are occurring in Atlantis… I'm not involving myself."
"Other than by sharing the greatest arcane tool produced by the arcanotechnological revolution with a city which is now refusing to recognise King Orin's authority."
"Yes, other than that. The design isn't a secret, Kaldur. Sephtian's been showing everyone." Wait. "Is this about the message I delivered for Lord Cyprian? I only did that because it was quicker than the normal Atlantean postal service."
"In part, yes. Lord Cyprian has crowned himself King of Venturia, and has announced his intention to secede from Atlantis."
"Okay?"
"I am hoping that you will agree to cease dealing with them until the dispute has been resolved."
"Kaldur…" I shake my head. "I'm not going to involve myself in Atlantean internal politics. Unless he commits an actual atrocity or.. Queen Hippolyta tells me otherwise, I'm not going to change my current stance."
"Under Queen Clea, Venturia was turned into a police state. Lord Cyprian was her Prime Minister for decades, and will continue with the same policies."
"And Garth was nearly murdered in the cradle for being born with the wrong colour eyes. And the Nanauvians eat each other to settle civil disputes. Let's not pretend that Atlantis is a bastion of liberal democracy."
"King Orin has made it the purpose of his reign to make it one."
"Kaldur, the Orange Lantern Corps may not operate on the same non-interference policy as the Green Lantern Corps, but we do have a policy-."
"A policy which you have the authority to overrule."
"Yes, but on what grounds, Kaldur? Has King Cyprian committed an atrocity? Do you want me to go back over sixty years, or… The entire history of Atlantis since the sinking? Because as an outsider I'd need to do that to decide who was in the right, and to what degree. Do you want me to get into the habit of overruling national leaders, not because they're evil but because they don't do what my allies want?"
"Then will you at least share with us what you learn from your research?"
"Of course. The whole reason why I'm doing this is to improve the world's understanding of magic. Though as I said, I don't think it's going to amount to much anytime soon."
His face hardens slightly. "The ability to manipulate the connection between the material world and the Dream could give the Venturians the ability to prevent the use of magic throughout Atlantis."
"Or release a plague of nightmares in their own research centre or really tick off one of the Endless." I shake my head. "Kaldur, I'm an empath. I met King Cyprian. You know what I saw?"
"I do not."
"A man who genuinely believes that it's his job to improve the lives of his people as much as he can. I didn't know that he was planning on declaring independence, but I don't think he's the sort of man who you have to worry about signing off on a doomsday weapon."
"Unless he has a way to confuse your senses."
"Hmm. Possible, but I was wearing a spell eater, and I was getting the usual degree of complexity from him. Most defences just block me. Look, other than having his independence recognised, has he made any demands..?"
"Not to my knowledge."
"And they've only had… Extremely limited contact with the rest of Atlantis for sixty years?"
"Yes."
"So all he wants is what he's already got. Between that and what I saw, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that he isn't a threat to the rest of Atlantis."
"And if he became one?"
"The same thing I'd do if King Orin became a threat to Venturia. Or when anywhere became a threat to anywhere else without a darn good reason. Kaldur, I don't think that thinking about this in purely adversarial terms is particularly sensible."
"I will convey that to my king. Will you be willing to deliver to Lord Cyprian any messages he wished to relay privately?"
So much for not getting involved. "Of course."
"Then we should not keep Zatanna waiting any longer."
09:35 GMT -5
"No."
He stares at me levelly for a moment. I put my right hand over my heart.
"I have not been in secret discussions with the government-."
"Have you perhaps been in some other sort of discussion?"
I smile. "Yes! See, I was overloading Sephtian with research projects, so I thought: I need this researched, who do I know who can do it who isn't linked into Sephtian's brain drain supply chain?"
Kaldur nods. "The government of Venturia."
"They have as little to do with Poseidonis as possible, but use basically the same thaumaturgical notation. Everything I'd already learned could be shared without having to explain it."
He exhales slowly, bowing his head slightly and closing his eyes for a moment. "What is the nature of the research you are having them perform?"
"I'm trying to study the relationship between the material universe and the Dream. I'm leaving exactly how they do it up to their researchers, because..." I shrug. "I would just be guessing. Is… There a problem?"
"How much progress have they made?"
"They haven't even finished setting up their forges yet." I shake my head. "I don't honestly see them achieving much within the lifetimes of the current generation of archmages. It's probably going to turn out to be one of those near-pointless resource sinks like the Large Hadron Collider, but… I've got the resources to spare, and I can afford to be optimistic." I frown in puzzlement. "Is there a problem?"
"Venturia is preventing Queen Ptra from returning to her home city to take her throne."
"I'm.. pretty sure that she already rules Aurania..?"
"No. Venturia."
"Um." I frown. "It was a while ago Diana told me about it, but… Didn't Ptra grow up in Aurania?"
"She split her time between Aurania and Poseidonis."
"Has she..? Ever been to Venturia?"
Kaldur doesn't immediately respond. Okay, what's happening? Queen Clea allied with the Nazis during World War Two. She agreed to raid Allied shipping in exchange for them recognising her claims to nearby islands. Diana fought her and.. sort of lost until Queen Cora -King Orin's grandmother- took command of the situation. Venturia broke their alliance, and the Allies agreed to abandon Atlantean territory once the war ended. Then… Something about Venturia and Aurania making a marriage alliance… Diana seemed a bit unclear on the details, but I know that something went wrong and Venturia has been isolationist ever since.
"Kaldur, whatever political problems are occurring in Atlantis… I'm not involving myself."
"Other than by sharing the greatest arcane tool produced by the arcanotechnological revolution with a city which is now refusing to recognise King Orin's authority."
"Yes, other than that. The design isn't a secret, Kaldur. Sephtian's been showing everyone." Wait. "Is this about the message I delivered for Lord Cyprian? I only did that because it was quicker than the normal Atlantean postal service."
"In part, yes. Lord Cyprian has crowned himself King of Venturia, and has announced his intention to secede from Atlantis."
"Okay?"
"I am hoping that you will agree to cease dealing with them until the dispute has been resolved."
"Kaldur…" I shake my head. "I'm not going to involve myself in Atlantean internal politics. Unless he commits an actual atrocity or.. Queen Hippolyta tells me otherwise, I'm not going to change my current stance."
"Under Queen Clea, Venturia was turned into a police state. Lord Cyprian was her Prime Minister for decades, and will continue with the same policies."
"And Garth was nearly murdered in the cradle for being born with the wrong colour eyes. And the Nanauvians eat each other to settle civil disputes. Let's not pretend that Atlantis is a bastion of liberal democracy."
"King Orin has made it the purpose of his reign to make it one."
"Kaldur, the Orange Lantern Corps may not operate on the same non-interference policy as the Green Lantern Corps, but we do have a policy-."
"A policy which you have the authority to overrule."
"Yes, but on what grounds, Kaldur? Has King Cyprian committed an atrocity? Do you want me to go back over sixty years, or… The entire history of Atlantis since the sinking? Because as an outsider I'd need to do that to decide who was in the right, and to what degree. Do you want me to get into the habit of overruling national leaders, not because they're evil but because they don't do what my allies want?"
"Then will you at least share with us what you learn from your research?"
"Of course. The whole reason why I'm doing this is to improve the world's understanding of magic. Though as I said, I don't think it's going to amount to much anytime soon."
His face hardens slightly. "The ability to manipulate the connection between the material world and the Dream could give the Venturians the ability to prevent the use of magic throughout Atlantis."
"Or release a plague of nightmares in their own research centre or really tick off one of the Endless." I shake my head. "Kaldur, I'm an empath. I met King Cyprian. You know what I saw?"
"I do not."
"A man who genuinely believes that it's his job to improve the lives of his people as much as he can. I didn't know that he was planning on declaring independence, but I don't think he's the sort of man who you have to worry about signing off on a doomsday weapon."
"Unless he has a way to confuse your senses."
"Hmm. Possible, but I was wearing a spell eater, and I was getting the usual degree of complexity from him. Most defences just block me. Look, other than having his independence recognised, has he made any demands..?"
"Not to my knowledge."
"And they've only had… Extremely limited contact with the rest of Atlantis for sixty years?"
"Yes."
"So all he wants is what he's already got. Between that and what I saw, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that he isn't a threat to the rest of Atlantis."
"And if he became one?"
"The same thing I'd do if King Orin became a threat to Venturia. Or when anywhere became a threat to anywhere else without a darn good reason. Kaldur, I don't think that thinking about this in purely adversarial terms is particularly sensible."
"I will convey that to my king. Will you be willing to deliver to Lord Cyprian any messages he wished to relay privately?"
So much for not getting involved. "Of course."
"Then we should not keep Zatanna waiting any longer."
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Chojin Patriarch
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...with research projects, so I thought: I need this researched...
Either an extraneous word, or a missing one ('thrones' after the names, perhaps?)
Welp. There's a major point of difference in timelines.
Either 'has been' or simply 'was', depending on the reference to Clea.
Missing word: Sixty what? 'Sixty years' perhaps?
Given the nature of super-science/thaumatology, if something goes wrong, the bad result is most likely. I doubt Morpheus (or whoever is holding the role) wouldn't be happy about any misuse...
Extraneous word.
Kaldur, I don't think that thinking about this in purely adversarial terms is particularly sensible."
Welp, the righteous face-punching instinct almost got in the way of simple diplomacy. Well done, Kaldur...
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Oglymogly
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I like this chapter. It is a slow one, and doesn't do anything immediately relevent. But it shows that the MC is in a real world, with thinking people and a history, and reminds us that the world doesn't just stop when the camera isn't on it.
I also enjoy this development of Kaldur, and Alantis as a whole, with political plot lines. Kaldur, much like Aquaman, gets overshadowed in the first season and this story, for so many reasons. I hope this is more set up for the return of the ancient queen.
I also enjoy this development of Kaldur, and Alantis as a whole, with political plot lines. Kaldur, much like Aquaman, gets overshadowed in the first season and this story, for so many reasons. I hope this is more set up for the return of the ancient queen.
Khettien
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I love the distinction here.
I dunno, I can kind of see Dream (or one of his...subodinates? semi-permanent houseguests? delegates? eh. Matthew, Cain or Abel.) stopping by the research labs and asking, "Why are doing that? Don't you know that's a bad idea?" in a puzzled kind of way.
Flux Casey
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When the response could be "Yes, it's called Altlantis", it's hard for Kaldur to maintain any kind of high ground. Basically every government is foreign to Paul. Including Britain because it's not his Britain.
Sockmonkey
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Amon is given orange quotes.
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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If one wants to be picayune about it, which Paul certainly CAN but he also knows good and well what Kaldur means.
moralrelativity
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Needs a full stop, or maybe an exclamation point.
Queshire
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Nope. That was brought up before. Still not Amon speaking there.
Sceptic
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Really? Can you quote that instead of the Paul quote you included?
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Flux Casey
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*googles 'picayune'* ... Petty. Cool. And it's not really petty. Kaldur is demanding to know why Paul is betraying Kaldur's government by sharing state secrets. And Paul's response is rightly:
1: Atlantis isn't his government
2: The information doesn't belong to Atlantis
3: Even if it did, it isn't a secret
4: Atlantis isn't his government
5: Being friends with Kaldur does not mean he owes undying fealty to Atlantis
Kaldur is pretty clearly mixing his politics with his villain fighting, which makes sense given his villain fighting is as a government employee. But it doesn't really mean he can demand his friends' allegiance to Atlantis regardless of circumstance.
Oglymogly
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and while many of our other more experienced team mates have school, her schedule is flexible enough to fit in with you.
One from yesterday.
Should that be 'the Dreaming'? Or 'the Realm of Dream'?
You enjoyed that, didn't you?
Also, I think Kaldur is pissed off pretty bad by the end. One word answers and single sentences don't bode well.
Prince Charon
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He has good reasons to be angry, at least from his own perspective. OTOH, no red, and he does know OL well enough that he should realize that his friend is neither lying nor giving him the runaround. It's good that he realized that Paul being a neutral party here does give both sides an advantage in communication and avoiding escalating the situation.
Oglymogly
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Very true. He is a patriot, with all that means. But he is a reasonable, intelligent friend as well. Good points.
But you gave me a interesting idea I'm going to have to watch for evidence of in my long reread: Does the SI overrely on his empathic sight? He wasn't exactly the most people wise person to start with, after all.
I know the colored words are just a representation of the complexity he can see if he looks, and that a well controlled person doesn't show emotion quite the same. We also know he doesn't casually look deeply out of common courtesy. So it wouldn't surprise me if he misses or understates irritation because it isn't anger, or maybe casual lust because it isn't love. Just a idea.
Prince Charon
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I think that actually happened when he was dating Dr. Harleen Quinzel, but I'm not sure in which episodes the issue occurred.
Oglymogly
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I know that he took her to the wedding in the episode Bindings (Story Only).
I was actually just trying to find the episode the Renegade got Queen Clea's point of view on the political situation, and I think it happened sometime in May 2011. But I'm too tired to keep trying for now.
Mr Zoat
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I'm not convinced.
The Atlantean texts he's been reading refer to it both ways.