With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

The We will be plain too.

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Then We will be plain too.*

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

12th April
04:14 GMT -6

"…not sufficient?"

Luna snorts, then realises that her forehooves are on the table between us. She blinks, then breathes in and out before sitting back down in her seat.

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Ah, whatever they're talking about seems to have aroused her passions...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Your pardon."

"No, no, you raise an interesting point that.. speaks right to my pseudo-cutie mark."

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And for those who don't remember: the Fascis, an Axe bound with sticks. A symbol of political unity, and highly significant when you consider Grayven's creed of empowerment..

She smiles in amusement. "We suppose that you are not aware that in Equestrian society, speaking of ones own special talent to one who does not share it marks one as a frightful bore. But… We suppose that you have been so courteous as to listen to Us pontificate 'pon Our minor vexations. Pray, bore Us."

"If I can't make my own specialist subject sound interesting, then burn my mark off with acid and brand me with a bore-mark!"

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Careful, she might take you up on that...

"That punishment was once practiced in Dream Valley. But wouldst your flesh not merely grow back?"

I frown in mock indignation. "What, you think I'm stupid? Of course it would! You think I'd volunteer to get maimed?"

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It'd still hurt like the dickens, mind.

"We suppose not. So then, oh potent pontificator of perfect pony presence and power politics, lecture Us the lessons that Our learn'ed tutors neglected."

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An amazing acuity for Alliteration, oh alicorn a'mour... Quite melodic...

"I think it comes down to legitimacy, really. What is it in pony society that says 'this pony is someone I should listen to'?" I incline my head slightly. "Well?"

"Our sister is this land's figure of authority and reverence, having ruled unchallenged this past millennia."

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And? Just because everyone's so used to her being there that it's like a mountain or a river, doesn't mean she automatically deserves to be in charge.

"And what's unique about Celestia? She's physically large and powerful, magically immensely powerful, old and wise, and -perhaps most importantly- she's been doing the job for so long that no one can imagine anyone else doing it."

"So either We are doomed, or We should wear platform hoofshoes."

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Oooh, that'd be a sight.

"Luna… Let me tell you the tale of Stanley the Tool. Stanley was a soldier, raised to the rank of Warlord for his good service to his king, and he lived in a land where the word of a nation's monarch was absolute. A noble might rule a city, but their position was not held in virtue of their lineage but on the whim of their overlord. At any moment they could be recalled to the capital, transferred to another city… Or simply killed with a single spoken sentence. The monarchs of that land held that the Titans who created their world had endowed monarchs with rights and powers over all of those they ruled, and that to question that system was the highest heresy."

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Admittedly, in their universe, Strategy and RPG game rules were primal forces of physical law, so those with the 'Monarch' keyword really were empowered to rule.

"And in this land, there were great tools left behind by the Titans from when they made the world. In a world with many magic artefacts of limited utility and power, these tools not only outstripped them all in power but had such a strange appearance that they were clearly not beholden to the same rules as the rest of the world. And one day, Stanley stumbled upon one of these tools. Moreover, he attuned himself to it, gaining the ability to draw upon its greatest power. Thus began his rise, from Warlord to Chief Warlord, eventually gaining such renown that his monarch anointed him his heir in spite of his lowly origin."

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For those uninformed about Erfworld, those 'Tools' are literal craftsman's tools. Pliers, Claw Hammers and the like.

"And then his monarch died, and Stanley became king. And then he committed heresy. Because it seemed to him that if authority -ultimately- came from the approval of the Titans… The surely the greatest sign of their approval was not the happenstance of one's birth, but whether one was considered worthy by them to bear the very tools with which they created the world."

"Naturally, none of his neighbours -all monarchs, none attuned to one of the Titan's tools- agreed with him, and the result was a rather large war."

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That's quite the understatement. By the end, it was everybody against Stanley's capitol. Not all of them happily, mind.

Luna nods. "And his arrogance at believing himself uniquely empowered was his undoing, thus proving him wrong?"

"It was more of a bloody draw, but that's not really the point. Stanley the Tool undermined the mandate of all of the monarchs he went on to fight. Their pride could not let him stand, so all manner of old enemies rallied together and against him. So where does legitimacy come from in Equestria?"

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Now that is a very good question...

"Our Sister, who has ruled for a millennia."

"Does she appoint every political figure in the country? Is university level education available to everyone with the intellectual capacity to benefit from it?"

"No, and.. no. Those with hereditary peerages hold a majority of offices, those with wealth most of the rest. At least, outside of small villages."

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And those mostly put whoever wants to do the job in charge. They tend to be easygoing about it though.

"Princess Celestia could drop into any of those places and be obeyed, but in practice, the ponies there are mostly following others."

"We suppose that is true. We are not certain that we see the similarity to this 'Stanley the Tool'."

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Then wait a moment, Pony Princess, and Grayven shall enlighten you.

"For most of the last thousand years there has been one alicorn. Now there are five, and Sunset is openly auditioning for the sixth. And then there are the non-alicorn former bearers of the Elements of Harmony, whose great deeds have kept this country… The world, safe from monstrous evils. Of the five of them, none come from armigerous families, but all were judged and found worthy by embodiments of the virtues which -in theory- all Equestrians revere."

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...Five not counting Sunset? Celestia, Luna, Mi Amore Cadenza, Twilight Sparkle... Is Grayven including himself there?

"And then we have the hereditary nobility. In feudal states, they might have the loyalty of their tenants. But as you pointed out, all ponies regard Celestia as the highest authority. They are educated and wealthy, but whatever deeds caused their forebears to be ennobled… Each time Equestria has been tested recently, their efforts have been conspicuous by their absence. So if tomorrow the bearerherd went through Sunset's process and Celestia created them duchesses and awarded them lands… Or did so anyway…"

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The Nobility would be quaking in their horseshoes.

She nods slowly.

"What little natural authority they still possess would be gone."

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And without authority, what are they? Snobby twits with money?

"One alicorn cannot rule a country of any size. How many ponies would have to ascend before non-alicorns are no longer required in top-level government roles? Individuals of great ability and virtue… And they're ageless, so this isn't a case of a new noble family being created and their descendants just become part of the ruling class. They can keep doing the job until they don't want to any more and… Well, Celestia's still going after a thousand years."

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Suggesting that might apply to other Alicorns who take up leadership positions. And when the leaders are all immortal, what opportunities for advancement does anyone else have?

"You believe that they are reacting against me… Because they fear that their time as this nation's elite is coming to an end."

"Mi Amore Cadenza was a peasant who was elevated by magic. She knew nothing about governance and yet Celestia effectively made her Crown Princess, then gave her a city to run. Was Blueblood in the frame for that?"

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Pfft. Hardly. As sensible as he is, he's not governing material...

"Neigh, he was not."

"Me, I'd have sent someone with experience as a big city mayor. But Celestia sent a guard captain and the other alicorn, and no one questioned it." I shake my head. "Equestria's elite have no reason to ease your path. You're a threat they can't deal with."

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So then what? What does she do to make them not see her as a threat to them?

She sits back on her haunches, looking thoughtful.

"Then what would you suggest?"

"There are two basic paths. Firstly, ingratiate yourself. Probably marry someone from a notable family. Fit in. Be part of the herd and work through existing power structures. Alternatively-."

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She's not the sort for that. The whole Nightmare Moon incident wouldn't have happened if she were.

"Simply plough through them. We are reasonably confident that We know which option you favour."

"Naturally. You're mine."

"We are uncertain how we feel about being described as property."

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Oh, that wasn't a declaration of ownership. That was a declaration of alliance. He is yours, as much as you are his.

"Luna…" I look away for a moment. "I genuinely can't tell if… You're not interested in me, if I'm coming on too strong… You can tell me. I won't be offended."

"No, that-. We admit to being somewhat out of practice with such matters. You do not appreciate your mares playing 'hard to get'?"

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How refreshing to see such openness.

I lean across the table.

"No, it's confusing and annoying. I'm huge and powerful and in personal matters I'm worried that I might simply be intimidating people into going along with what I want. You not telling me what you want and giving mixed signals -especially when I'm trying to be as direct and plain as possible- is a recipe of misunderstanding and frustration. I'm happy going fast and I'm happy going slow but I need to know that you actually want to go."

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Oh, she's a goer all right... Nice to see them avoiding the usual romantic comedy pitfalls and tropes.

"Ah. The We will be plain too. You are courteous and passionate, and have about you a kindness at odds with your occasionally brusque manner. We are most certainly interested, but perhaps in such matters actions are of more import than words."

She leans across the table and kisses me.

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Whether it lasts or not, I think it might be a good thing for her. A chance for affection not tied to her Alicornhood alone, which would get in the way of any relationship in Equestria.

Ah, Grayven, living the Brony Dream. Honestly, even if it doesn't work out, he's made out with an Alicorn princess, changed Equestria for better or worse, and he'll be remembered. What fanboy could ask for more than that?

The surely the greatest sign...

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Then surely the greatest sign...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Then We will be plain too.*

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Then surely the greatest sign...

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Hey, alright! A story/anecdote that I was familiar with, I was wondering it would ever happen. Erfworld was something else...
Pray or show support to Rob and Linda Balder for the unfortunate (personal) circumstances that unjustly killed the Erfworld webcomic.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

bearerherd

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I'm reasonably sure this is one of those pony-fied words, but, I've not idea what it means... Maybe, in a while my brain will tell me? Don't know. (A search didn't help.)

---

Erfworld - I'm afraid the art style is such that it thoroughly puts me off. Had a similar issue with 'Order of the Stick' (but, no problem with xkcd). I'm not much of a fan of stuff that leans so heavily on gaming, either.

This is a strange episode, but the politics of 'Wilson' are interesting...

I suppose I should refer to the watery tart approach to acquiring political legitimacy...

 

[BR549]

I'm reasonably sure this is one of those pony-fied words, but, I've not idea what it means... Maybe, in a while my brain will tell me? Don't know. (A search didn't help.)

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The group (in equine terms, herd) of bearers of the Elements of Harmony. A more clinical (professional?) way of saying 'the Mane Six'.

 

[Khettien]

Pray or show support to Rob and Linda Balder for the unfortunate (personal) circumstances that unjustly killed the Erfworld webcomic.

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I stopped reading Erfworld ages ago, what happened?

 

[Secret Secretion]

I stopped reading Erfworld ages ago, what happened?

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I stopped too, about the time of Jillian's excruciatingly long backstory. Nothing was happening and the webcomic wasn't a webcomic anymore.

 

[Stsword]

HORSE SMOOCHES!

Yeah, the whole "exponential growth of immortal alicorns" thing happening in MLP is a disaster in the making.

At least until now they had the distinction of earning their ascension, but Flurry Heart put a stop to that and Sunset...well, I honestly can't tell if her process makes it better or worse. It creates greater equality by making it accessible, but that also directly undermines Eqestria centuries old social system.

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Don't forget Wilson's psychoreactive transformations, so every alicorn is just one bad day away from being an apocalyptic threat.

Logically there would be an equilibrium point where the fellow alicorns would be capable of dealing with wayward fellows, but that still leaves the place in even more of a "I'm suddenly needing to know the plural of apocalypse" situation.

And as the Erfworld story mirrors, well, I doubt the countries made up of all those other species are going to appreciate the prospect of their countries getting wiped off the planet by an insane alicorn......

 

[Mr Zoat]

I stopped too, about the time of Jillian's excruciatingly long backstory. Nothing was happening and the webcomic wasn't a webcomic anymore.

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That was pretty much why I stopped. I think I got to the bit where they were fighting in the magic kingdom.

 

[Rafin]

*Dons his bilingual native speaker hat*


As I said in the post you quoted Arachneros is not a word, name or anything else but a word jumble in greek, Arachnios on the other hand could be translated as Spidery although it would be more accurate to say it translates to something like "of spiders", in the same way chthonios (χθόνειος) means "of the earth" (as in chthonioi theoi (χθόνειοι θεοί) - gods of the earth / more commonly (and inaccurately) translated as gods of the underworld).

The reason why I offered "arachnakias" or "arachnis" as nicknames is that they are what a native user would use as a nickname for someone under those circumstances.



Xenios (greek Ξένιος) is the title of Zeus as the protector of visitors and comes from the root xenos (ξένος) which means foreigner, not local or stranger and was usually used in the same context as the wild west "Howdy stranger!", it was NOT a nickname and it was considered a really big deal to not offer hospitality / philoxenia (φιλοξενία) to someone who requested it. As in offending Zeus personally big deal (and thus risking getting fried by lightning bolt). That said it is not that it did not happen just that it happening had very severe social and political repercussions for whomever did it.


Finally the "somethingphile" family of terms did not start and is not an euphemism of anything (although it can be used as such). It means quite literally "someone who is friendly towards something/someone" (zoophilos (ζωόφιλος) - friend of animals) or "someone who cares about something/someone" (mousicophilos (μουσικόφιλος) - lover of music) or "someone for whom something is very important" (alithiophilos (αληθειόφιλος) - literally truth-friend).
What I am trying to say is that such a term could be used to describe him but not as a name or a nickname. You could claim that Paul is an arachnophile but it would be a description or a label.

on the "philarachnos" side of things it is not a more polite way to say he likes spiders, it means something closer to "someone who helps and takes care (in possibly the sense of charity) of spiders". See: philanthropos (φιλάνθρωπος) - someone who performs charities.

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Sorry. As a non-native speaker I was just going off of the stuff I learned in the 21 years I live in Greece.

As far as I knew the -ιος ending in that context meant "of the" not in a coming from there sense, but in a more general "of that thing" meaning.

Arachnis seems like just a hypothetical male name version of Arachne and Arachnakias is a distinctively new Greek way of nicknaming if I am not completely mistaken. I was pretty crap at ancient Greek in school though. Like, 11/20 in school crap.

I didn't mean "nickname" in the unimportant name people call each other for fun sense. Just in the not his actual name but he got it for his character and people know who is meant sense. Another example would be Aphrodite Areia for the Aphrodite that is warlike like Ares (armor and everything), as worshipped by the Spartans.

The somethingphilos is definitely used primarily for its euphemistic meaning nowadays, even in Greece. See the ζωόφιλος/φιλόζωος dichotomy. Two very different meanings. And no one uses the first to literally mean just "friend of animals" anymore. That said, I don't know when this switch actually happened though, or when it was first used as a euphemism for "so friendly he constantly wants to bugger it".

I didn't know that the philosomething always meant someone who helps the thing in question. So φιλότιμος could be translated as someone who helps honor/virtue?

'The SI doesn't know.'

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What do you mean? The SI wrote the thing.

 

[B.B. Rain]

...Five not counting Sunset? Celestia, Luna, Mi Amore Cadenza, Twilight Sparkle... Is Grayven including himself there?

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No, five counting Sunset, who's running auditions for people willing to go through her ascension ritual to become the sixth.

 

[theaceoffire]

How would horses even kiss?

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How can they hold teacups, and why do tea cups have finger-shaped handles!?

 

[Rebu]

"We suppose not. So then, oh potent pontificator of perfect pony presence and power politics, lecture Us the lessons that Our learn'ed tutors neglected."

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And now I'm having flashbacks to that really pretentious alliterative furry fic I read once.

And by 'once', I mean 'it was the writer's entire gimmick, and he used it in every story'.

 

[Mr Zoat]

And now I'm having flashbacks to that really pretentious alliterative furry fic I read once.

And by 'once', I mean 'it was the writer's entire gimmick, and he used it in every story'.

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It's how ponies name books.

 

[lefthandturnsignal]

Ah so the SS KaraGravy has finally sank? Blubs uncontrollably.

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At least the PaulxSpider ship is still full steam ahead.

 

[Siskulous]

"No, it's confusing and annoying. I'm huge and powerful and in personal matters I'm worried that I might simply be intimidating people into going along with what I want. You not telling me what you want and giving mixed signals -especially when I'm trying to be as direct and plain as possible- is a recipe of misunderstanding and frustration. I'm happy going fast and I'm happy going slow but I need to know that you actually want to go."

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Amen! I never have figured out why so many women think playing hard to get is a good idea. I'm of exactly the same mind on the subject as Graven. Relationships are not the place for idiotic games.

"Ah. Then We will be plain too. You are courteous and passionate, and have about you a kindness at odds with your occasionally brusque manner. We are most certainly interested, but perhaps in such matters actions are of more import than words."

She leans across the table and kisses me.

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And it's about time.

Ah so the SS KaraGravy has finally sank? Blubs uncontrollably.

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Technically it never launched. Sure, she went on a couple "dates" with him, but the whole time she was hostile and suspicious. You didn't actually think that was going anywhere, did you?

 

[Pinklestia]

Ah so the SS KaraGravy has finally sank? Blubs uncontrollably.

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Let's face it; at most it would have been hate sex and that's not healthy.

Meanwhile Oh El... is with spiders.

So if Grayven is the neutral ending Oh El seems headed to the bad ending.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Let's face it; at most it would have been hate sex and that's not healthy.

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I think the hate has to be mutual for that to be a thing.

Meanwhile Oh El... is with spiders.

So if Grayven is the neutral ending Oh El seems headed to the bad ending.

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What's wrong with the Queen? She's rational, intelligent, social, and has a substantial resource base.

 

[Siskulous]

What's wrong with the Queen? She's rational, intelligent, social, and has a substantial resource base.

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There's a lot to be said for anatomic compatibility in romantic relationships.

 

[Pinklestia]

What's wrong with the Queen? She's rational, intelligent, social, and has a substantial resource base.

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Is a relationship based on sex and Oh El actually doesn't emotionally care about her. He would have totally forgot about her if the queen had not pulled a Talia Head and made artificial babies based on him.

Queen = Talia = Hate her.

 

[Z3r0Sama]

Technically it never launched. Sure, she went on a couple "dates" with him, but the whole time she was hostile and suspicious. You didn't actually think that was going anywhere, did you?

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Honestly if Gravy told her about his side hobby of stopping Kryptonians from slipping into non existence a lot of that would disappear. With how crap she was treated in that universe, even though she had nothing to do with the JL coup d'etat, I could see her jumping ship like Justice Lord Wonder Woman.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is a relationship based on sex

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Okay, that got a laugh out of me.

and Oh El actually doesn't emotionally care about her. He would have totally forgot about her if the queen had not pulled a Talia Head and made artificial babies based on him.

Queen = Talia = Hate her.

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She didn't make Princess with him, unlike Earth 1's rapist version of Talia. The Queen made Princess of her own volition. And the SI wouldn't have forgotten the Queen; after Wombworld was destroyed he's been making a point of checking up on Vega every so often and speaking with the local notables.

 

[Breadnaught]

There's a lot to be said for anatomic compatibility in romantic relationships.

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True, but anatomic compatibility is somewhat negotiable with an Orange Ring.

Transforming himself into a spider-creature wouldn't be the first thing he's turned into with it.

 

[Idkusername]

True, but anatomic compatibility is somewhat negotiable with an Orange Ring.

Transforming himself into a spider-creature wouldn't be the first thing he's turned into with it.

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Hell, no actual penetration took place when OL finally scored with Jade.

 

[Darko]

Those five Alicorns may be Celestia, Luna, Twilight, Cadenza and now Sunset. Probably not Flurryheart as she's just a baby now.

Before anyone starts about how renegade has better relationships than paragon, do remember that paragon is in a happy relationship with Jade, while renegades relationship with her ended horribly.

True, but anatomic compatibility is somewhat negotiable with an Orange Ring.

Transforming himself into a spider-creature wouldn't be the first thing he's turned into with it.

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The next chapter in the Eros thread may have some insect sex in it.

Hell, no actual penetration took place when OL finally scored with Jade.

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Pretty sure it did and the constructs just served as something extra.

 

[nobodez]

"No, that-. We admit to being somewhat out of practice with such matters. You do not appreciate your mares playing 'hard to get'?"

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Amen! I never have figured out why so many women think playing hard to get is a good idea. I'm of exactly the same mind on the subject as Graven. Relationships are not the place for idiotic games.

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While I can't really say one way or another, since while I'm not aromantic I haven't really had any romantic relationships, the concept of "playing hard to get" seems, to me, to be just a form of gaslighting.

And a relationship built on lies, deception, and psychological warfare is not a healthy relationship.

 

[freakytiki34]

Sokka: My girlfriend turned into the moon.

Grayven: My girlfriend is a moon goddess.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Those five Alicorns may be Celestia, Luna, Twilight, Cadenza and now Sunset. Probably not Flurryheart as she's just a baby now.

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Flurry Heart hasn't been born yet. I'd have to check my timelines but I'm not sure that she's been conceived yet.

Grayven will not be impressed by Cadenza's childrearing techniques.

Sokka: My girlfriend turned into the moon.

Grayven: My girlfriend is a moon goddess.

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Technically, Luna is just a very powerful pony who's special talent relates to the night. We only see one priest in MLP:FiM, and it doesn't appear that alicorns are formally worshipped.

 

[Darko]

Flurry Heart hasn't been born yet. I'd have to check my timelines but I'm not sure that she's been conceived yet.

Grayven will not be impressed by Cadenza's childrearing techniques.

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I think that Sunset once mentioned Flurry, but I could be wrong.