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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
ToaKraka said:
Will there be a story-only thread on this forum?
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Yes, but given how long it took me to put up the last one I'm really hoping that there's a way to make it easier.
Biigoh said:
Hello, this is ye olde friendly mod reminder.
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*Puts right hand on forehead, shakes head.*

Come on guys. Let's make it to the end of the day at least.

It is thematically appropriate to discuss the treatment of transsexuals in our society. But QQ would rather we not generalise that debate to encompass modern factional politics more generally, and I heartily encourage everyone to follow that requirement.
 
Buggy123 said:
Okay, one thing I will not hold against SV: the default interface colors. Most emotion colors, especially fear-yellow, show up terribly on this. I have to highlight it just to read it at all. No offense to QQ intended, this story just aint written for dark-on-bright.

So:

PSA
Anyone coming over who wants to make the story colors more readable, hover over your username at the top of the page, like seen here:
Ud2Qti5.jpg


Click "preferences":

m2GF7w7.jpg


Pick a new color scheme as desired by clicking this drop down list, and clicking a option (I think I prefer 'Flexile Dark', but just about anything with 'dark' in the name works fine):

ygbErRx.jpg


And finally, hit "Save Changes" at the bottom to finish it:

aclmTte.jpg


This will lock in the changes, and you can go and change it again at any time if you'd like. Enjoy having a color balance more suited to the Emotional Spectrum!

END PSA
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Flexile Dark is centered and only uses a tiny part of the screen though, which sucks. I'm using dark responsive (green), and it works fairly well.
 
The other fics I read regularly - and the one I write - are their own blog sites. I don't understand why one wouldn't move there, rather than deal with the content restrictions of a discussion forum.
 
Mr Zoat said:
*Puts right hand on forehead, shakes head.*

Come on guys. Let's make it to the end of the day at least.

It is thematically appropriate to discuss the treatment of transsexuals in our society. But QQ would rather we not generalise that debate to encompass modern factional politics more generally, and I heartily encourage everyone to follow that requirement.
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Your posts were fine... it's just modern politic discussions is way too [insert word of choice regard division and angry poster sounds], that we just ruled it better to not have that sort of discussions. If you do see something that you think might be political... just report it, don't engage it.
 
9adam4 said:
The other fics I read regularly - and the one I write - are their own blog sites. I don't understand why one wouldn't move there, rather than deal with the content restrictions of a discussion forum.
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Because the continued conversation on a forum feels like a society.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I knew that some of SV's rules were daft. If personal integrity was that important to me then I would have left when those rules came into force. I didn't, because they didn't affect me personally, until they did affect me personally.

I post because I want to tell a story, not because I want to start fights over every little thing. Some people have suggested that I was baiting the mods. I wasn't. I prefer keeping mods off my threads as much as possible. In my experience, it is seldom they they help and often that they hinder. I honestly didn't think that was I was saying was such a big deal. I realised that some people would have a negative response, but I thought that we could maybe have a civilised discussion about it. Something that might go some small way to helping people live in a world with divergent opinions. I am having such discussions on SV via PMs now.

Then mods happened.

I do not consider myself responsible for what people who share my opinion in one regard think about other things, whether I agree with them or disagree with them. And the fact that we share an opinion on one thing certainly doesn't automatically indicate that that we agree about everything.

Honestly, I'd probably just stop writing.

Edit: I took out something here that might have breeched the ban on modern politics. I did this because getting a ban on a new forum immediately would be really stupid.
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I sympathise with you Mr. Zoat.

Respect to the mods and how they keep things tidy in a forum, but their presence and eyes on your thread really is a bad time in the end. From disruptions to scheduled story posts to *sob* a thread locked forever and a broken dream of a story you've been writing for a long time.

Heck, they locked and never unlocked my thread because of how violent and gorey it was.

To be fair the last few parts did step on some rules, but anyways.

Hope the threads here last ten times longer than they did in SB and SV.

Buggy123 said:
Okay, one thing I will not hold against SV: the default interface colors. Most emotion colors, especially fear-yellow, show up terribly on this. I have to highlight it just to read it at all. No offense to QQ intended, this story just aint written for dark-on-bright.

So:

PSA
Anyone coming over who wants to make the story colors more readable, hover over your username at the top of the page, like seen here:
Ud2Qti5.jpg


Click "preferences":

m2GF7w7.jpg


Pick a new color scheme as desired by clicking this drop down list, and clicking a option (I think I prefer 'Flexile Dark', but just about anything with 'dark' in the name works fine):

ygbErRx.jpg


And finally, hit "Save Changes" at the bottom to finish it:

aclmTte.jpg


This will lock in the changes, and you can go and change it again at any time if you'd like. Enjoy having a color balance more suited to the Emotional Spectrum!

END PSA
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Click to shrink...

Flexile Dark is better, thank you!
 
Temp0101 said:
On the topic of gender-flipping for powers for me it 100% depends on whether I become fem!Me or I get an entirely different female body, I'd be particularly uncomfortable in Mr.Hamill's position.
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Mr Hamill actually prefers that it's not a fem version of him, because it means that he can think of it as not being anything to do with him.
 
Indophenol said:
Flexile Dark is centered and only uses a tiny part of the screen though, which sucks. I'm using dark responsive (green), and it works fairly well.
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Blackend-Blue is pretty good on my phone, for what it's worth. Most of my fanfic reading is mobile, after all. The real test will be the invisible new god speak, though.
 
I have hope for this forum.

Maybe if I get infracted for crimethink here it'll be for a thoughtcrime I actually committed instead of just stating a fucking logic gate in proximity to someone else's crimethink.

Can we go back to the world line where Orwell is fiction? Please? This timeline is fucked, someone send a message to the microwave and move us back to one that makes sense.
 
Temp0101 said:
On the topic of gender-flipping for powers for me it 100% depends on whether I become fem!Me or I get an entirely different female body, I'd be particularly uncomfortable in Mr.Hamill's position.
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Which is, of course, the point. The original comic was an anvilicious morality tale about sexism. "Turn a catcalling construction worker into an impossibly buxom woman and see how HE likes it!" Not exactly subtle.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I honestly didn't think that was I was saying was such a big deal.
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it took me FIVE MINUTES on my registration to SV to realise "I Identify as an Attack Helicopter" was not allowed. I don't think anything else in your post was Infraction worthy. it would have pissed people of, (did me tbh but im still here) cause derails sure but suspension? don't really think so.

and a Poison Pill? Seriously? thought you were classier than that, Sir.

as to the posts, I look forward to see where they go. as always, Since SB
 
CrossyCross said:
QQ's mods are the best out of the three forums.

There's something to be said for the site not being too big, and a more laid-back atmosphere.
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And for the majority of their stuff being porn so far all over the place as far as kinks and preferences go, that it pretty much requires an open mind.
 
Aegorm said:
First things first, loved the chapters. Happy to see the main thread on QQ.

Secondly:
Damn, am I happy to be away from SV right now. I never got it when people ranted about safe spaces and snowflakes and whatever stupid thing they came up with.
I always thought that it's normal that you don't want to be insulted. So 'safespaces' weren't all that strange to me. It isn't like those safespaces would completely shut down anything that doesn't match their view 100% right?
Right?
Christ, they're like Siths over there, only dealing in absolutes, completely, 100% with them, or you're the enemy.
They actually managed to sour my opinion on the trans community, if they're a representation of it then I'm just disappointed.
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The specific thing that got Mr Zoat in trouble was him using the attack helicopter meme, which is basically saying that a person identifying with a specific gender is no more valid than them identifying as the proverbial helicopter.

I hope you can see why trans people find that meme insulting.
 
bobsimmo said:
it took me FIVE MINUTES on my registration to SV to realise "I Identify as an Attack Helicopter" was not allowed. I don't think anything else in your post was Infraction worthy. it would have pissed people of, (did me tbh but im still here) cause derails sure but suspension? don't really think so.
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I originally wanted to link to the story about a man who gets terminally injured and has his brain moved to a helicopter. It was particular relevant as he ends up deciding to be classified as an AI rather than a cyborg in a show of solidarity with oppressed synthetics.
and a Poison Pill? Seriously? thought you were classier than that, Sir.
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I'm not completely sure what you mean by that, but if that's about my last post then all I can say is that I am pretty angry with SV right now, and that influenced my decision. A transhuman is someone who goes beyond the norms of human existence. It isn't someone doing something to trivial as changing their sex, or at the very least isn't merely that.
OrbitL said:
The specific thing that got Mr Zoat in trouble was him using the attack helicopter meme, which is basically saying that a person identifying with a specific gender is no more valid than them identifying as the proverbial helicopter.

I hope you can see why trans people find that meme insulting.
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Actually, that wasn't what got me in trouble.
Broken Base said:
Hello @Mr Zoat, I hope you are having a good day, I was able to get this done quite quickly, fortuitously.

This may perhaps be slightly long, and I apologize for that, but I wanted to be both clear and thorough.

The first thing I want to note might seem minor, but is actually pretty good to know. You use "transsexual" a good deal in your appeal (and once in the relevant section of your story), and it's not really the right word to use here. While "transsexual" is a term that was used to refer to trans people in the past, time has marched on and at this point it is out of date, and a good deal of the trans community finds the term extremely offensive. Things like trans person, trans man, trans woman, and so on are typically much preferred. It's just a matter somewhat relevant to the appeal that I thought should probably be cleared up.

Now, in terms of the infraction. There are a few elements worth looking at- roughly two (arguably 3), which can be separated into the content of your story, and the post you made discussing it after the fact. We'll discuss the story element first.

Now, in the section of the story being discussed here, we're talking about a character who was born male, was turned female against their will, and wish to be turned back to being male as you note in the appeal, and so are clearly uncomfortable with being female. So it's safe to assume they consider themselves to be a man. Now I would like to note a part of the story where you refer to them with female pronouns.

Mr Hamill shrugs, and if I needed any confirmation that she wasn't wearing a bra with that costume I now have it. "I was just playing with the dial. I wasn't even really paying it any attention."

"Do you have a picture of what you looked like before your transformation?"

"What, you think I was walking around dressed like this when I was a dude? Alla my stuff vanished when I transformed." She looks down at herself and grimaces. "Do you-?" She looks at Diana. "Do you have any, like, clothes I could borrow? I don't.. really…" She makes a vague cupping gesture.
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Now, since "Mr. Hamill" identifies as a man, using feminine pronouns to describe them is certainly not gendering them appropriately, which is the issue here. For reference, I'll quote the important portion of Rule 2's text relating to that, explicitly and implicitly.

You are mindful not because of specific individuals, but because of all those who might be affected by what you say.

We expect, for example, that you will gender everyone appropriately...

a community that is willing to devalue outsiders is not the welcoming one we are trying to build.
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The thing is, that by then using female pronouns to refer to them, you indicate that what is important here is not the gender they identify as, but what physical body they currently have, something you also indicate in your appeal.

But trans people, whose gender identity not meshing with their physical sex often making them feel "trapped in the wrong body", can feel alienated or hurt by this. After all, this, to them, could seem to indicate that you believe they are wrong about their own identity and who they are. To them it's their gender identity, what they perceive themselves to be and what they feel they should live as, that is important and defines them. And sentiments against that would go against the desire of SV to make users of all kinds, including trans people, feel welcome.

Now, as the text notes, there is leeway given in terms of fiction in many cases. The character in this case being an SI might muddy things a little, but if the story clearly established in some sense that they were wrong to do this for instance, or that they were being set up to change their mind, that might be a different story, as would a non-story post indicating that the SI is wrong to gender them this way. However, none of these things come into play here.

The other part of the infraction related to your text post defending the SI's gendering of the character, so we should turn to that. We'll start with the aspect that is slightly more complicated.

She is plus breasts vagina minus penis testicles facial hair. She even has one of those ridiculous costumes certain comic illustrators like to draw on female characters but not on male ones.

She is a woman.
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Here, you seem to imply that being a woman requires having full breasts, a vagina, and not having a penis. Of course, that is absolutely untrue for a good deal of trans women, who have not undergone those surgeries, sometimes because they simply can't for various reasons. Trans women have always been women, regardless of any surgeries they have or not have had, and implying otherwise devalues that second group.

You also say that it would be perfectly fine for your character to identify as an "attack helicopter". Now, the attack helicopter meme was created as a joke targeted at nonbinary and trans people's identities by comparing how they identify to something ridiculous that people would dimiss out of hand, and the joke still is that. Thus making the joke, even if you don't know that, does (if unintentionally) devalue the identity of those people.

I do genuinely believe that these are just things that you simply didn't consider or realize while posting and writing. And that's something that happens to all of us from time to time. However, writing these posts in that mindset has the same effect as posting with intent of devaluing other groups, and so still violates Rule 2.

[information=Ruling]As such, the infraction under Rule 2 is upheld in full.[/information]

Thank you for your time. If you disagree with this ruling, you are free to make another post making an appeal to our Community Council within the next 72 hours. If you do this, make sure to explain why my ruling is mistaken. It is also worth noting that if they desire, Staff has the right to also request for a Tribunal. And if you have any questions at all about my ruling, please feel free to ask.

Have a good day.

Cheers.
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9adam4 said:
Anyone who is offended by the attack helicopter idea, but doesn't object to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is a blatant hypocrite.
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I've seen many a dysphoric friend get their feelings out on their issues with their... condition, only to get the conversation shut down with "hurr durr Attack Helicopter! get dunked on!" to the extent that they get jumpy at images of the apache.

the worst his Noodly Appendages does is mock the "theirs only one faith all others can die" mentality
 
bobsimmo said:
it took me FIVE MINUTES on my registration to SV to realise "I Identify as an Attack Helicopter" was not allowed. I don't think anything else in your post was Infraction worthy. it would have pissed people of, (did me tbh but im still here) cause derails sure but suspension? don't really think so.

and a Poison Pill? Seriously? thought you were classier than that, Sir.

as to the posts, I look forward to see where they go. as always, Since SB
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Poison pill? I'm missing something here.

But seriously, I don't see where anyone's having any favors done in the whole SV kerfuffle. Then again, I learned the ways of the internet back in the bad old days of 4chan and vanilla WoW, where nobody really gave a shit if you were offended by what they said. I have a hard time remembering that people can be actually hurt by words posted on the forum. Angered, sure. Irate, or sad, or disappointed, fine. But I can't grok people feeling injured by someone else's statements, such that they need Big Brother to protect them from the scary wrongthink. I have a serious problem when people start getting in trouble for a logic gate statement; if your position is offended by the presence of a basic logical statement like "X=X, which does not equal Y", you have bigger problems than me pointing out that X does not equal Y because you believe really hard.
 
RichardWhereat said:
And for the majority of their stuff being porn so far all over the place as far as kinks and preferences go, that it pretty much requires an open mind.
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EXACTLY. With all porn (except illegal IRL stuff, but digital is always okay) bring kosher, it cuts out the haters. There are obviously dislikes, but the answer is to avoid threads/fetishes that don't pander to you, not report things or shit things up.

Just don't pull IRL politics, don't be an excessive asshole (a certain amount of dickishness is allowed. For everything else there's the rants section), and don't sockpuppet. And that's most everything you need to know about rulebreaking.
 
I still love this story, and have been following it since before you hand to leave SB, even if I have to take occasional brakes from reading it when the cliff hangers get to be too much.



on genderbending for super powers: to me the level the permanency is interconnected to the power levels gained. it would take something on the level of a super saiyan, The Gamer, or Kyptonian before permanent becomes acceptable.
that said being able to change at will would still be preferable.
 
KYOKYOKYO!!! Let us jump on the QQ bandwagon, but WAIT! What if there is RAGEQUIT 3 : The Rage Returns? Where will we go then? WHERE!?!?
 
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