With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

moralrelativity · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"The butterflies, naturally."

Huh?

Stsword · Nov 13, 2019

moralrelativity said:
Huh?

Sheeda are bug people from the future.

Jormuungaand · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"The butterflies, naturally."

Butterflies? Metaphorical or literal? With this story, that's a Perfectly valid question.

Maxx Crowley · Nov 13, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
I wish they'd used this version of Sivana in that Captain Marvel movie. Mark Strong just didn't feel anything like Sivana.

Making him a half assed Sabbac wasn't the best move either.

Mquz · Nov 13, 2019

Maxx Crowley said:
Making him a half assed Sabbac wasn't the best move either.

They might have wanted to use Sabbac, but he isn't a sympathetic villain - all the villains people like most in superhero movies tend to have sympathetic motives. Also, how do you explain the name if he's powered by the sins?

zerofarad · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
There's a degree of overlap, but that was my principle intent.

Probably principal (~= main, foremost) rather than principle (~= fundamental idea).

Mr Zoat · Nov 13, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
Correction: 'and Beryl is'

Dakkan Sall said:
Should be "Mind Destroyer" singular, unless he has several swirling around in there in which case it should be "Mind Destroyers are". Also "it" rather than "is" further along the sentence.

zerofarad said:
Probably principal (~= main, foremost) rather than principle (~= fundamental idea).

Thank you, corrected.

RichardWhereat said:
I wish they'd used this version of Sivana in that Captain Marvel movie. Mark Strong just didn't feel anything like Sivana.

That was basically the post-Flashpoint Sivana. AKA NOT!Sivana.

moralrelativity said:
Huh?

They're a type of winged insect. What caterpillars grow into.

Mquz said:
They might have wanted to use Sabbac, but he isn't a sympathetic villain - all the villains people like most in superhero movies tend to have sympathetic motives. Also, how do you explain the name if he's powered by the sins?

Sabbac II did use the sins for a boost once. Also, the fact that they were the sins rather than any other group of monsters played no role in the film.

RichardWhereat · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
That was basically the post-Flashpoint Sivana. AKA NOT!Sivana..

Oh. Well then.

Zig · Nov 13, 2019

moralrelativity said:
Huh?

Follow the butterflies follow the butterflies

fappingtoyourpost · Nov 13, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
leaving them in place allows them to push someone to breaking.

They plan on turning the one they've caught into a scanner, and i imagine doing that would be faster than tracking down the other 6 with short range tools.

Steelplaza · Nov 13, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
I wish they'd used this version of Sivana in that Captain Marvel movie. Mark Strong just didn't feel anything like Sivana.

This version of Sivana is a lot of fun, but I don't wish they'd used him in the movie because the character they did use worked really well in supporting the movie's themes and conflicts. The actual villain of the Shazam movie were the Seven Deadly Sins themselves, which was actually a pretty nice choice.

You can quibble about whether it was unfortunate they "used up" the name Sivana... but whatever, you know? If there can be more than five different versions of the Joker in thirty years, there's surely room for more takes on Sivana.

Mr Zoat said:
Also, the fact that they were the sins rather than any other group of monsters played no role in the film.

Oh, I have to disagree with you there. The fact that they were lower case "sins" in the sense of presenting some specifics forms of evil didn't play much role it's true.

The fact that they were the upper-case Sins, a very specific group of monsters that the Wizard's order had been imprisoning for X thousand years and who had been attempting to corrupt men and plotting to escape for all that time played a very big role. It genuinely felt very personal with them as the hereditary enemies of Shazam and his legacy.

Mr Zoat · Nov 13, 2019

Steelplaza said:
Oh, I have to disagree with you there. The fact that they were lower case "sins" in the sense of presenting some specifics forms of evil didn't play much role it's true.

The fact that they were the upper-case Sins, a very specific group of monsters that the Wizard's order had been imprisoning for X thousand years and who had been attempting to corrupt men and plotting to escape for all that time played a very big role. It genuinely felt very personal with them as the hereditary enemies of Shazam and his legacy.

Alright; did Gluttony do anything glutinous, interract specifically with gluttons or inspire gluttony in others?

Steelplaza · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Alright; did Gluttony do anything glutinous, interract specifically with gluttons or inspire gluttony in others?

Why no he didn't; do you think the movie would have been improved if he had?

What Gluttony and the other Sins did was make a concerted effort to track down and destroy the inheritor of the Wizard's power because the wizards were their ancient enemies. It was their own plotting and proactive plans by reaching out to Sivana that resulted in their freedom. That's what made them not just "random monsters"; the fact that they were deeply tied into the plot and were taking actions to try to achieve specific goals.

Someguy Somewhere · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"The butterflies, naturally."

Makes Perfect Sense to Me.

jonasquinn · Nov 13, 2019

While I do mostly agree that the monsters being the sins didn't really impact the movie I do have to say that I liked the scene at the end where Billy realised that the only one that refuses to leave Sivana is Envy because it's the sin he's most guilty of and he has to tempt it out

PrinceJonathan · Nov 13, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
I wish they'd used this version of Sivana in that Captain Marvel movie. Mark Strong just didn't feel anything like Sivana.

I don't know how Sivana is suppose to feel. I certainly like this Sivana better though.

I can relate to the Movie!Sivana up to a point, but near the end he turned into just a big jerk. I felt sympathy for him for having a horrible family, and I loved how he finally got revenge on his father, but after that...nah.

Why did he leave the Wizard alive? He blasted the Wizard, took the Seven Sins into himself..and left. Like what? He could have killed the Wizard there. Shazam never would have been a thing. And Sivana could have been the cool anti-hero punishing people for their sins by feeding them to the Sins.

Handlewithcare · Nov 13, 2019

Zig said:
Follow the butterflies follow the butterflies

The Dragon?

Mr Zoat · Nov 13, 2019

Steelplaza said:
Why no he didn't; do you think the movie would have been improved if he had?

Perhaps not, but it would have more of a Captain Marvel film.

What Gluttony and the other Sins did was make a concerted effort to track down and destroy the inheritor of the Wizard's power because the wizards were their ancient enemies. It was their own plotting and proactive plans by reaching out to Sivana that resulted in their freedom. That's what made them not just "random monsters"; the fact that they were deeply tied into the plot and were taking actions to try to achieve specific goals.

No, they're in name only. Just like Sivana. They did not have the appearance or personality of the comic versions. That's what makes them random monsters. Replace them with anything and what changes? Nothing. Heck, replacing them with Oggar would have been an improvement. Replace them with the Monster Society of Evil. Same result. They could fight Batson and Co. and lose just as well, and it would make more sense because it wouldn't involve the Enemies of Mankind losing to literal children.

TheEyes · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, there's very little chance of me doing that. Have you ever heard of a man called 'The Spider'?"

"I have. He was a racketeer, thief and terrorist. And then he vanished, and hopefully he's dead."

"He also worked for British intelligence."

"Don't bloody remind me. I don't know what they were thinking."

I think you might have gotten your orange quote marks mixed up here.

Mr Zoat · Nov 13, 2019

TheEyes said:
I think you might have gotten your orange quote marks mixed up here.

I don't think so? It's Sivana, Beryl, SI, Beryl.

Fouredged · Nov 13, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Perhaps not, but it would have more of a Captain Marvel film.

No, they're in name only. Just like Sivana. They did not have the appearance or personality of the comic versions. That's what makes them random monsters. Replace them with anything and what changes? Nothing. Heck, replacing them with Oggar would have been an improvement. Replace them with the Monster Society of Evil. Same result. They could fight Batson and Co. and lose just as well, and it would make more sense because it wouldn't involve the Enemies of Mankind losing to literal children.

Ah, but you see, children are innocent. They don't have significant moral sin nor are they tempted by it. That is why children could beat sin.

I agree the movie had weak characterization though.

Mr Zoat · Nov 13, 2019

Fouredged said:
Ah, but you see, children are innocent. They don't have significant moral sin nor are they tempted by it. That is why children could beat sin.

I agree the movie had weak characterization though.

Eh, just of them. We get a clear idea of why NOTATALL!Sivana is doing what he's doing, Billly gets his post-Flashpoint character, only.. slightly better. There's even a 'Family - good or bad' thing going on. It just doesn't involve the sins, and if it doesn't involve them... Why are they there?

Mr Zoat · Nov 14, 2019

18th February
12:11 GMT -6

"All sheeda creatures share certain biological traits, certain genetic elements. I suspected as much when I was in their time, but I proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt by performing a detailed analysis of the tissue samples which I brought back with me."

I frown as we fly in the direction of the town, Linda flying to meet us part way.

"I don't remember you having tissue samples with you."

"Naturally I had to wait until my next bowel movement. I was far too malnourished to pump my stomach."

Beryl fails to hide her disgust. "You were eating intelligent beings?"

"Oh, don't worry; we are biologically dissimilar enough that there was little chance of disease transmission."

She regards me, then twists her right hand in a 'see what sort of person you're working with' gesture.

"And not often. The scavenger creatures were far easier to catch. The humanoid ones seldom left the cities except in armed patrol groups."

"And the local butterflies contain sheeda genetic markers?"

"Yes. It's not entirely unique. Certain breeds around Slaughter Swamp show similar signs, but that place has a unique magical background which might have drawn sheeda attention in the past. This town has nothing. And yet, here they are. Sheeda-modified butterflies."

"Butterflies. That's it?"

"A great many of the sheeda's weaponised creatures have insectoid traits. Perhaps Melmoth was testing the local creatures to see how compatible they are? Or perhaps they ate something. I really don't know yet."

Linda twists her fiery wings to match our direction as she reaches us, sparing Dr Sivana only a brief look. "Tempest has consulted with a local flower merchant. The scrublands near the old mine are popular with butterflies during the summer months, though they can be seen all over town."

"Doctor, would you mind collecting the remaining Mind Destroyers while we investigate that area?"

"And deny myself the opportunity to gather more specimens? I don't think so."

"You're interested in butterflies?"

"I can hardly engineer a plague to exterminate the sheeda if I can't examine every creature containing their genetic material. Besides, I've already learned everything I can from the Mind Destroyers. The others won't have anything else interesting in them that that one didn't."

"Doctor, one of two things are going to happen when we get there. Either we'll find a lot of dormant butterflies, or we'll get into a fight with something sheeda. If it's butterflies, there will be plenty for you. If it's sheeda, you're frail for a normal human. It would make far more sense for you to let us handle the fighting and for you to analyse whatever's left."

"While I'm not averse to creating autonomous weapons to do my fighting for me, I'm certainly not about to let a group of superheroes blunder about the place without my supervision. And if you think I haven't taken my own physical frailty into account then you're sorely underestimating me."

"Doctor, you're our leading expert on the sheeda. Deploying you to the front lines-."

Something 'pings' in his cockpit.

"Mm?" he pokes at it. "Oh. My social analytics program thinks that you're being honest."

"Did Georgia get that from Dox?"

"Georgia and Junior built it for me as a Father's Day present. But even if you are being honest, I can tell perfectly well that your colleagues don't have your attitude towards me."

"Was your first clue when I called you a murderer?"

"No, I just thought that was a statement of fact. I am a murderer, and an entirely unrepentant one. It was the way you kept using an accusatory tone of voice when you spoke to Orange Lantern. You don't approve of him working with me, even though you don't have anyone who knows as much about the sheeda as I do. It's a very heroic attitude. Very stupid."

"Doctor-."

"And here we are."

The ground below us is noticeably rockier than it was around town, and I can see the general outline of the mine workings. There hasn't been any serious mining in this area for decades, and the area is thoroughly overgrown.

Ring, scan for butterflies.

Now there's an instruction that I never thought I'd give.

Basic scan reveals no butterflies. Sonic and electromagnetic images of butterflies being added-

A huge number of tiny wire frame butterflies appear in my visual field.

-to your view.

Dr Sivana's ship drops down to just above the level of the ground and then… Spins around so that the exhaust is facing towards the ground. Inside the dome, the interior control system spins around so that the doctor is now facing outwards. And then… Panels at the side of the ship fold aside, arm mounted manipulators and particle beams deploying as the exhaust section opens up and.. four.. stubby legs deploy. The mech suit then lands, the main flight system shutting down as a force field shimmers into being to protect the whole unit.

"I'm fragile. It's not."

Beryl lands next to a small bush and holds up her personal computer's probe to scan a butterfly. The doctor spots her, then pulls some levers inside his control module to deploy a suction hose. I imagine that he'll want to analyse those later. Linda-.

Linda's eyes are burning pits of fire as she floats above us.

"I will burn these unnatural abominations-."

"Glass houses and stones, Supergirl."

Her eyes narrow at me, still burning.

"This is an intelligence gathering exercise. We need to understand what the sheeda are doing and how to fight them. You can burn the place after we have all of the samples we need."

She descends, her fiery wings extinguishing as she lands. Then she bends slightly and picks up a cocoon.

Then she frowns.

"These abominations are of earthly origin, correct?"

"The sheeda are, as far as we know. The butterflies are local."

"There is something… Their spirits are malformed. A creature of the Earth should not be able to feel this way."

"I'll hand some examples to Sephtian, see what he makes of it."

She nods a little uncertainly. I suppose that it wouldn't hurt to take a detailed scan myself, if only so that I can recognise the modifications that have occurred to them. If I crush one then whatever's throwing off my scans should stop working.

I use a construct jar to grab a cocoon of my own and pull it over to me. Detailed scans show…

That's curious. Why-?

The Spine Rider slices its way out of the cocoon and slashes its way through my construct!

Queshire · Nov 14, 2019

Whelp. Looks like Melmoth figured out how to bioweapon the local bugs after all.

thebishop8 · Nov 14, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
we are biologically dissimilar enough that there was little change of disease transmission."

*chance instead of change

Mr Zoat said:
Sonic and electromagnetic imagines of butterflies being added-

Should that be images instead of imagines?

Flux Casey · Nov 14, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Georgia and Junior built it for me as a Father's Dad present. But even if you are being honest, I can tell perfectly well that your colleagues don't have your attitude towards me."

And there's the reason I've so long wished to justify using the coloured text in a non-Lantern story. It's so devastatingly effective in the right context.

Also, Father's Day, Zoat.

Chojin Patriarch · Nov 14, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"All sheeda creatures share certain biological traits, certain genetic elements. I suspected as much when I was in their time, but I proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt by performing a detailed analysis of the tissue samples which I brought back with me."

I frown as we fly in the direction of the town, Linda flying to meet us part way.

"I don't remember you having tissue samples with you."

"Naturally I had to wait until my next bowel movement. I was far too malnourished to pump my stomach."

Ah, the dietary downside of the Sheeda. Because of course they're cannabilistic.

Beryl fails to hide her disgust. "You were eating intelligent beings?"

"Oh, don't worry: we are biologically dissimilar enough that there was little change of disease transmission."

Ah, so it's not cannabilism, merely predation.

She regards me, then twists her right hand in a 'see what sort of person you're working with' gesture.

"And not often. The scavenger creatures were far easier to catch. The humanoid ones seldom left the cities except in armed patrol groups."

So he wasn't often eating people. Just imps and pixies.

"And the local butterflies contain sheeda genetic markers?"

"Yes. It's not entirely unique. Certain breeds around Slaughter Swamp show similar signs, but that place has a unique magical background which might have drawn sheeda attention in the past. This town has nothing. And yet, here they are. Sheeda-modified butterflies."

Slaughter Swamp, if no-one remembers, is one access to Witch-world (Melmoth's little demense) and the birthplace of Solomon Grundy.

"Butterflies. That's it?"

"A great many of the sheeda's weaponised creatures have insectoid traits. Perhaps Melmoth was testing the local creatures to see how compatible they are? Or perhaps they ate something. I really don't know yet."

Linda twists her fiery wings to match our direction as she reaches us, sparing Dr Sivana only a brief look. "Tempest has consulted with a local flower merchant. The scrublands near the old mine are popular with butterflies during the summer months, though they can be seen all over town."

So now they have an epicenter. Time to catch some bugs.

"Doctor, would you mind collecting the remaining Mind Destroyers while we investigate that area?"

"And deny myself the opportunity to gather more specimens? I don't think so."

"Time enough for that later. New samples are more important for fresh data!"

"You're interested in butterflies?"

"I can hardly engineer a plague to exterminate the sheeda if I can't examine every creature containing their genetic material. Besides, I've already learned everything I can from the Mind Destroyers. The others won't have anything else interesting in them that that one didn't."

Ha, of course. Be interesting if he could engineer a virus that infused all life on Earth, so that Sheeda died as soon as they come through their portals, no matter when.

"Doctor, one of two things are going to happen when we get there. Either we'll find a lot of dormant butterflies, or we'll get into a fight with something sheeda. If it's butterflies, there will be plenty for you. If it's sheeda, you're frail for a normal human. It would make far more sense for you to let us handle the fighting and for you to analyse whatever's left."

"While I'm not adverse to creating autonomous weapons to do my fighting for me, I'm certainly not about to let a group of superheroes blunder about the place without my supervision. And if you think I haven't taken my own physical frailty into account then you're sorely underestimating me."

No offer of Dannering, of course. He is technically a criminal, even if he's working with OL on this.

"Doctor, you're our leading expert on the sheeda. Deploying you to the front lines-."

Something 'pings' in his cockpit.

"Mm?" he pokes at it. "Oh. My social analytics program thinks that you're being honest."

Helpful. Because of course he has a program to analyze social cues.

"Did Georgia get that from Dox?"

"Georgia and Junior built it for me as a Father's Dad present. But even if you are being honest, I can tell perfectly well that your colleagues don't have your attitude towards me."

Aw, he really does love them. Explains why he'd wipe an entire species out of existence to protect them.

"Was your first clue when I called you a murderer?"

"No, I just thought that was a statement of fact. I am a murderer, and an entirely unrepentant one. It was the way you kept using an accusatory tone of voice when you spoke to Orange Lantern. You don't approve of him working with me, even though you don't have anyone who knows as much about the sheeda as I do. It's a very heroic attitude. Very stupid."

Too used to punching people in the face, not enough time spent thinking about correcting problems.

"Doctor-."

"And here we are."

The ground below us is noticeably rockier than it was around town, and I can see the general outline of the mine workings. There hasn't been any serious mining in this area for decades, and the area is thoroughly overgrown.

Prime ground for an ambush, naturally.

Ring, scan for butterflies.

Now there's an instruction that I never thoughts I'd give.

Basic scan reveals no butterflies. Sonic and electromagnetic imagines of butterflies being added-

Because of course they're scan-warded. Good thing the Ring has orders for getting around that.

A huge number of tiny wire frame butterflies appear in my visual field.

-to your view.

Dr Sivana's ship drops down to just above the level of the ground and then… Spins around so that the exhaust is facing towards the ground. Inside the dome, the interior control system spins around so that the doctor is now facing outwards. And then… Panels at the side of the ship fold aside, arm mounted manipulators and particle beams deploying as, the exhaust section opens up and.. four.. stubby legs deploy. The mech suit then lands, the main flight system shutting down as a force field shimmers into being to protect the whole unit.

Ah, battlesuits. Good way of protecting a squishy ally outside of Power rings.
Correction: That comma seems a little oddly placed.

"I'm fragile. It's not."

Beryl lands next to a small bush and holds up her personal computer's probe to scan a butterfly. The doctor spots her, then pulls some levers inside his control module to deploy a suction hose. I imagine that he'll want to analyse those later. Linda-.

Linda's eyes are burning pits of fire as she floats above us.

Let's not go scorched earth until after the team has the information it needs, hmm?

"I will burn these unnatural abominations-."

"Glass houses and stones, Supergirl."

Her eyes narrow at me, still burning.

( ! ) Supergirl will remember that.

"This is an intelligence gathering exercise. We need to understand what the sheeda are doing and how to fight them. You can burn the place after we have all of the samples we need."

She descends, her fiery wings extinguishing as she lands. Then she bends slightly and picks up a cocoon.

Then she frowns.

"These abominations are of earthly origin, correct?"

...Sort of, yes.

"The sheeda are, as far as we know. The butterflies are local."

"There is something… Their spirits are malformed. A creature of the Earth should not be able to feel this way."

"I'll hand some examples to Sephtian, see what he makes of it."

I hope he's lightened his workload a little, then.

She nods a little uncertainly. I suppose that it wouldn't hurt to take a detailed scan myself, if only so that I can recognise the modifications that have occurred to them. If I crush one then whatever's throwing off my scans should stop working.

I use a construct jar to grab a cocoon of my own and pull it over to me. Detailed scans show…

And no doubt...

That's curious. Why-?

The Spine Rider slices its way out of the cocoon and slashes its way through my construct!

...These things have programmed responses to interference.

And things have gone ploin-shaped. Combat time! At least we know what they want exploded now.

Grimnar · Nov 14, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
The Spine Rider slices its way out of the cocoon and slashes its way through my construct!

You know, this might have had some impact if we have any fucking context to this.

Handlewithcare · Nov 14, 2019

So his ring can't directly scan for Butterflies and he didn't think to warn everyone?

Sloppy, OL.

Jormuungaand · Nov 14, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Georgia and Junior built it for me as a Father's Dad present.

Day

Mr Zoat said:
Now there's an instruction that I never thoughts I'd

thought

Mr Zoat said:
electromagnetic imagines of butterflies being

images

Mr Zoat said:
Inside the dome, the interior control system spins around so that

Do you think 'spins' is a bit awkward? Perhaps rotates?

Mr Zoat said:
beams deploying as, the exhaust section opens up

Unnecessary comma

Mr Zoat said:
The Spine Rider slices its way out of the cocoon and slashes its way through my construct!

And bounces off my armour!

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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