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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Uncomplicated Good Works (part 10)
12th December 2012
15:23 GMT -5


"Do you kids-"

The cluster of children standing around the power transformer look up in astonishment.

"-own that fence?"

"Superman?"

I frown slightly. Alright, I haven't bothered actually researching the statistics on the whole 'broken windows' thing, but I can't help but think that this isn't an efficient-.

That's not the point.

"That's my name." I can hear him smiling as he says it, arm folded as he comes in to land. "Listen, kids. I can understand wanting an outlet for your artistic talents, but electric substations like this are dangerous. There's enough power in these wires to give you a serious injury."

In Gotham, even today, I'd give even odds that they'd be pointing the cans at… Say, Batman, with the aim of temporarily blinding him so they can either escape or stab him. But with Superman the children are lowering them or half-heartedly trying to hide them behind their backs.

"Sorry, Superman."

"Not as sorry as your parents would be if you ended up in the hospital. Why don't you kids head home?"

Eyes downcast, the children head out through the wooden gate and back onto the street. Kal-El watches them go for a moment, then looks up at me.

"You mind fixing the gate?"

I nod, scanning… Huh. The padlock is lying on the ground, still connected to the hasp. Looks like the screws just pulled out of the wood of the gate. A little odd, but over a sufficiently long period of time…

I repair the structure of the gate, reattach the lock mechanism and close it up.

"Do you think it's worth putting netting over the top?"

"No, that should do it. Kids will walk through an open gate, but mostly they won't break into a place like this."

"Unless they kick a ball over." Hm. "I could add a sign outside with the number to phone if they do kick a ball over?"

"That's a thoughtful idea."

There's a glow of orange as it appears.

"So what's your mobile number again?"

He looks mildly amused. Very mildly amused.

"We call them 'cells' on this side of the Atlantic. And I think the Metropolis Power Authority would be the people to call. I wouldn't want to disappoint someone because I was fighting a monster when they wanted their kite back."

"Yeah, okay."

"Do you do home repairs as well?"

"My maintenance is really more perfective. And I don't like cheating tradesmen out of the business. Unless you want something interesting done covertly that they couldn't do?"

"No, I was just making conversation."

"Because while there's no such thing as kryptonian proof, my time with Kara has given me insight into kryptonian resistant. If you and Ms. Lane are planning on having children, you might find it advantageous to make sure they won't wreck the place."

He looks slightly awkward, perhaps remembering collateral damage from his own childhood.

"I'll keep you in mind. What did you think?"

"It probably wouldn't have occurred to me to mention their parents."

"Not going to say that it's not a good use of my time?"

"Ah… It's not, but given the time it would take from noticing they were in here, to phoning the police or Power Company, and them sending someone, it's actually pretty reasonable in terms of efficiency."

"And..?"

"And?"

"Guy told me it was usually worth asking you what you weren't including in your first answer."

"And… It's worth expending quite a lot to keep you motivated and on an even keel. Good social bonds are an essential part of a person's psychological wellbeing, human or kryptonian, and this sort of activity makes you a part of Metropolis's community."

"I suppose that's true. I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before. I mostly just think of it as 'being nice'."

"And that's exactly why I'm here."

"I'm.. not sure why that's so hard for you."

"It's not. It's just that I'm aware of all of the things I could be doing instead of being nice."

He folds his arms across his chest. "Such as?"

"Fighting the Reach. My presence would reduce the fatalities amongst N.E.M.O. forces significantly in any fight I involved myself in. Dox prefers it if I stay as a reserve so the Reach can't develop a counter to me as easily, and so our side doesn't get dependent. And I can't fight them all by myself. But it would mean a lot fewer people on our side dying in the short term. Maybe even on the Reach side, if I can disable ships without destroying them more easily than anyone else on our side."

"Can't do much about Apokolips, but the Dominion and other parts of the Spider Guild are good targets. Or I could track down Sinestro. Killing or capturing him would improve relations with the Green Lantern Corps and stop whatever he's planning. Or just find a random planet trapped by Avleb's Wall and give them a few bleed torsion generators to get them started."

"I'm sorry, what's that?"

"Avleb's Wall? That's when a planet doesn't have enough accessible fuel for industrial civilisation to develop."

He nods. "I remember you bringing up the concept in your talk. I just didn't know the name. Are they common?"

"Yes, very common. Honestly, I've.. sort of wondered whether Krypton was in the same place before the Vrang arrived."

"Krypton didn't have a fuel shortage."

"No, but your forebears might have needed technology more advanced than they could develop without it to access it. Technologically sophisticated technology took off on Krypton after the Vrang were defeated. I know the official history says that that happened because everyone saw the necessity, with a few rogue historians implying that it was copying Vrang technology that made it possible for it to happen so quickly. But-."

"But it might have been fuel." He nods. "Because they brought in mining equipment."

"Yes." I shrug. "But all those children might have gotten electrocuted due to their own foolishness while I was busy saving billions. So what's next?"
 
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Saving the kids is good PR and it's very likely that the kids as well as their parents will have a more favorable opinion of Superheroes in general which helps all Superheroes a little bit. Those little bits add up and help keep any hostility by the government or others at bay.
So, it could very do much more in the long term for Superman and league as well as perhaps the universe than many of the other things OL talked about.
 
Dang. That is a incredibly bad mindset.

I'm now expecting him to duplicate himself a billion times so he can save as many people as possible. Otherwise he might not be as efficient at saving people.

He could be saving billions of people instead of spending time with his girlfriend. Oh wait. He actually cares about that. I guess the billions can die while he's on a date. That's totally fine.

It's a very confusing world view where people you don't care about personally are a utilitarian numbers game but the instant he actually cares the number game doesn't matter.

Kinda horrifying.

Selective utilitarianism? Bad stuff.
 
Relevant SMBC

It's really hard to make these kind of long term judgement calls.

But as OL so rightly realised: I think at their powerlevel it comes down to how dependent you want a society to be. Do you save a child from every injury or do you let them burn themselves to learn to not touch a stove?
 
Saving the kids is good PR and it's very likely that the kids as well as their parents will have a more favorable opinion of Superheroes in general which helps all Superheroes a little bit. Those little bits add up and help keep any hostility by the government or others at bay.
So, it could very do much more in the long term for Superman and league as well as perhaps the universe than many of the other things OL talked about.

Or the League could have an adaptive response system where Street Level Heroes are deployed to deal with Street Level issues. Like this.

And the Heroes like Superman triaged to situations as needed. Sure, being free to engage in events and situations like the power station and the fence and whatever, but also having a system to have Heroes do the PR shit like this.

The League has straight up teleporters after all. The Logistics are fundamentally relatively simple, so long as the monitoring works properly. Imagine the League use their equipment to better coordinate emergency responses, as well as better classifying and organizing the deployment of heroes.
 
This is reminding me of the SMBC "Peak Superman" comic.

It's a very confusing world view where people you don't care about personally are a utilitarian numbers game but the instant he actually cares the number game doesn't matter.

Welcome to the best way to be an Orange Lantern.

For an Enlightened one, possibly the ONLY way to be an Orange Lantern.
 
Or the League could have an adaptive response system where Street Level Heroes are deployed to deal with Street Level issues. Like this.
And the Heroes like Superman triaged to situations as needed. Sure, being free to engage in events and situations like the power station and the fence and whatever, but also having a system to have Heroes do the PR shit like this.
The League has straight up teleporters after all. The Logistics are fundamentally relatively simple, so long as the monitoring works properly. Imagine the League use their equipment to better coordinate emergency responses, as well as better classifying and organizing the deployment of heroes.

Until they do? What Superman did is good enough.
 
Until they do? What Superman did is good enough.
I don't disagree.

Merely thinking about the nature of Emergency Response Management, and how given the League has a relatively large roster of Heroes as well as teleportation and monitoring capacity seemingly beyond most Governments, I could see a world where those functions are also contracted out to the League on some level, or the League chooses to better organize their deployment strategy of Heroes after doing away with the mentality that individual Heroes "belong" to individual cities.
 
Hmm, maybe that could be summarised as choosing to save people from their own decisions, vs saving them from circumstance? Then you can expand the discussion into why people make decisions and, for instance, whether those children were above the age of legal responsibility and therefore assumed by their own society to understand consequences, and whether that age threshold for personal responsibility is reasonable. Sort of cross related to the AI rights thing very early in the story.
 
12th December 2012
15:23 GMT -5


"Do you kids-"

The cluster of children standing around the power transformer look up in astonishment.
Heh. Not the smartest place to be, but... kids. Likely pre-teen. And what ten-year-old is going to be thinking 'oh my god, this could kill me' when they see something cool? Plus, getting to meet Superman? :D Best day ever.

"-own that fence?"

"Superman?"
That's the name, don't go tugging on the cape.

I frown slightly. Alright, I haven't bothered actually researching the statistics on the whole 'broken windows' thing, but I can't help but think that this isn't an efficient-.

That's not the point.
Feeling a bit insulted they didn't call out your name, OL? I mean, they would probably have called you 'Cake Man'...

"That's my name." I can hear him smiling as he says it, arm folded as he comes in to land. "Listen, kids. I can understand wanting an outlet for your artistic talents, but electric substations like this are dangerous. There's enough power in these wires to cause you a serious injury."

In Gotham, even today, I'd give even odds that they'd be pointing the cans at… Say, Batman, with the aim of temporarily blinding him so they can either escape or stab him. But with Superman the children are lowering them or half-heartedly trying to hide them behind their backs.
Well, people in Gotham... 'Asshole' is being charitable. And in Gotham, they'd probably be looking to strip any resalable metal they could get their hands on, like copper coils. Which would put them square in the bat-spank target zone.

"Sorry, Superman."

"Not as sorry as your parents would be if you ended up in hospital. Why don't you kids head home?"
Oooh, guilt trip.Bonus points for style, Supes.

Eyes downcast, the children head out through the wooden gate and back onto the street. Kal-El watches them go for a moment, then looks up at me.

"You mind fixing the gate?"
One upside of having someone hanging around with a 'do anything' tool in their arsenal: instant fixes instead of having to call it in to the power company.

I nod, scanning… Huh. The padlock is lying on the ground, still connected to the hasp. Looks like the screws just pulled out of the wood of the gate. A little odd, but over a sufficiently long period of time…

I repair the structure of the gate, reattach the lock mechanism and close it up.
Or someone else had been there first, discreetly. Is Parasite locked up somewhere, or..?

"Do you think it's worth putting netting over the top?"

"No, that should do it. Kids will walk through an open gate, but mostly they won't break into a place like this."
Never underestimate a kid's tunnel vision when retrieving...

"Unless they kick a ball over." Hm. "I could add a sign outside with the number to phone if they do kick a ball over?"

"Thats a thoughtful idea."
...Dang, OL beat me to it.

There's a glow of orange as it appears.

"So what's your mobile number again?"
Did Supes ever have a toll-free hotline or something in the comics? I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising entrepreneur licensed his likeness and voice for something like that.

He looks mildly amused. Very mildly amused.

"We call them 'cells' on this side of the Atlantic. And I think the Metropolis Power Authority would be the people to call. I wouldn't want to disappoint someone because I was fighting a monster when they wanted their kite back."
Ah, Supes, thoughtful as ever. Living up to that 'Big Blue Boy Scout' reputation.

"Yeah, okay."

"Do you do home repairs as well?"
...You need a place to be made resistant to, well, damn near anything up to a nuke?

"My maintenance is really more perfective. And I don't like cheating tradesmen out of the business. Unless you want something interesting done covertly that they couldn't do?"

"No, I was just making conversation."
I mean, surely the Daily Planet could use a little security upgrade?

"Because while there's no such thing as kryptonian proof, my time with Kara has given me insight into kryptonian resistant. If you and Ms. Lane are planning on having children, you might find it advantageous to make sure they won't wreck the place."

He looks slightly awkward, perhaps remembering collateral damage from his own childhood.
Yeah, super-strong cribs and baby gates probably sounds like a good idea, if he ever gets Lois in the family way somehow.

"I'll keep you in mind. What did you think?"

"It probably wouldn't have occurred to me to mention their parents."
And there's a big difference between you and him. There's a reason 'Blackest Night' gave him a Blue Ring, after all.

"Not going to say that it's not a good use of my time?"

"Ah… It's not, but given the time it would take from noticing they were in here, to phoning the police or Power Company, and them sending someone, it's actually pretty reasonable in terms of efficiency."
But, as he noted, he can't be there every time this happens. What would humanity learn if he did that?

"And..?"

"And?"

"Guy told me it was usually worth asking you what you weren't including in your first answer."
Wise man. And yes, OL generally doesn't offer any information he doesn't think is needed, after all.

"And… It's worth expending quite a lot to keep you motivated and on an even keel. Good social bonds are an essential part of a person's psychological wellbeing, human or kryptonian, and this sort of activity makes you a part of Metropolis's community."

"I suppose that's true. I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before. I mostly just think of it as 'being nice'."
And he does do good in these little moments. Even when some people can't imagine a person that nice...

"And that's exactly why I'm here."

"I'm.. not sure why that's so hard for you."
Learning how to prioritise little things instead of big ones. Because sometimes, the little things are as important as the big.

"It's not. It's just that I'm aware of all of the things I could be doing instead of being nice."

He folds his arms across his chest. "Such as?"
Oh, this could take all day. And that's just what he could do for Earth...

"Fighting the Reach. My presence would reduce the fatalities amongst N.E.M.O. forces significantly in any fight I involved myself in. Dox prefers it if I stay as a reserve so the Reach can't develop a counter to me as easily, and so our side doesn't get dependant. And I can't fight them all by myself. But it would mean a lot fewer people on our side dying in the short term. Maybe even on the Reach side, if I can disable ships without destroying them more easily than anyone else on our side."
But, as noted, the Reach won't let him do that willy-nilly.

"Can't do much about Apokolips, but the Dominion and other parts of the Spider Guild are good targets. Or I could track down Sinestro. Killing or capturing him would improve relations with the Green Lantern Corps and stop whatever he's planning. Or just find a random planet trapped by Avleb's Wall and gives them a few bleed torsion generators to get them started."

"I'm sorry, what's that?"
Except as his meta-knowledge tells him, Sinestro could be useful someday. Sure, a lot of people might die, but...

"Avleb's Wall? That's when a planet doesn't have enough accessible fuel for industrial civilisation to develop."

He nods. "I remember you bring up the concept in your talk. I just didn't know the name. Are they common?"
Ironically, the only link I could find to explain it... :confused: ...comes from this very thread.

"Yes, very common. Honestly, I've.. sort of wondered whether Krypton was in the same place before the Vrang arrived."

"Krypton didn't have a fuel shortage."
To be fair, it would have been so long ago no-one would know. Krypton is hardly above editing it's own history.

"No, but your forebears might have needed technology more advanced than they could develop without it to access it. Technologically sophisticated technology took off on Krypton after the Vrang were defeated. I know the official history says that that happened because everyone saw the necessity, with a few rogue historians implying that it was copying Vrang technology that made it possible for it to happen so quickly. But-."
Such is the nature of a very, very old culture. History is at the mercy of the person writing it down.

"But if might have been fuel." He nods. "Because they brought in mining equipment."

"Yes." I shrug. "But all those children might have gotten electrocuted due to their own foolishness while I was busy saving billions. So what's next?"
At least he can keep the point of the exercise in mind. No life is too big or too small to not care about...

Is it just me, or did this have something of an '80's moral lesson' segment out of something like the Superfriends, with that initial set-up? :p And boy, would being that OL be suffering or what? At any rate, good to see OL's not getting bored of doing the 'community relations officer' thing yet. Though I can't help but imagine that the second a giant killer robot shows up, he'll grin... And then have it restrained in two seconds flat.

"Thats a thoughtful idea."
"That's a thoughtful idea."
"But if might have been fuel." He nods.
"But it might have been fuel." He nods.
 
"Because while there's no such thing as kryptonian proof

Well you could add kryptonite to things like paint or add lead to paint.

Granted, both could kill a person, or make them ill.

"I suppose that's true. I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before. I mostly just think of it as 'being nice'."

"And that's exactly why I'm here."

"I'm.. not sure why that's so hard for you

Yeah, I'm also not sure why it's hard for him and a lot of others.

remember you bring up the concept

"bringing"
 
"Because while there's no such thing as kryptonian proof, my time with Kara has given me insight into kryptonian resistant. If you and Ms. Lane are planning on having children, you might find it advantageous to make sure they won't wreck the place."
I still remember when LePaul was 100% sure Kryptonian's and humans couldn't have children together.

Glad to see he's finally realized he's wrong.


Or I could track down Sinestro. Killing or capturing him would improve relations with the Green Lantern Corps and stop whatever he's planning.
Given the last time you encountered Sinestro you got played like mandolin, I wouldn't put much stock in your ability to do this.
 
It's good to remember that Superheroes are superheroes, generally, voluntarily and by conviction. They all want to, generally, do good but they all have priorities. If they are informed and have the opportunity they will help and do good, but it isn't their job to hold society's hand or be capable of solving every problem; they should be the emergency, extracurricular or, just in particular cases, rapid response.

They don't "belong" to cities, they live in those cities and as such that particular city is important to that particular heroe. They also have lives and loved ones and all that stuff. No matter how fast Flash may be, if there is a crime in front of him or if Iris needs him, he won't leave because there is a special treadmill in Africa that will give the continent all the food and water it needs if he runs in it 10 hours a day.

Oh, and if I'm not misremembering, the League's teleporters are point to point, they can't just go anywhere at anytime in the blink of an eye. Best League teleporter I've seen is the animated one and not even that one was perfect.
 
I just thought of something rather heartwarming. Paul's actions over the next arc, combined with Alan's temporary hope!enlightenment during the search for Constantine, will help Alan create a blue lantern ring. I'm not expecting anything this year, I just mean Paul's growth here will be one memory for him to call on.

I think a second memory will form when the Sivana family decisively turn against villainy… perhaps by sponsoring a superhero in a part of the world where they can make a serious difference. Oh! Their hero could join that corporate team, The Alliance of the Just, in order to justify looting equipment and materials from missions for study. Fewer restrictions than the Justice League in some regards, more opportunities in other ways. Alpha Centurion seemed nice enough.
 
Except as his meta-knowledge tells him, Sinestro could be useful someday. Sure, a lot of people might die, but...
There isn't much that Sinestro can do that Batman can't do less malevolently.
Ironically, the only link I could find to explain it... :confused: ...comes from this very thread.
Why is that ironic? I made the term up.
"That's a thoughtful idea."
"But it might have been fuel." He nods.
Thank you, corrected.
 
I think the point about heroes being volunteer is an important one- clearly E16 has yet to find/try a better system, given they didn't implement one in the decades between the JSA and JL.

It should be noted that heroes like Superman often have to do small things for their sanity, and to be connected to the community. Sure, giving $5 to the homeless guy isn't the most efficient, but it helps the culture in the community and the person.

Of course, how much this applies to Paul solely depends on his want. Like helping out Jade or Conner versus any number of randos.
 
Its not really about the numbers in the end I feel. Sure Paul wants to do the most amount of good for everyone... but feels like he is a losing a lot of that goal by not really interacting with the regular people he wants to help since most of his friends are in his line of work in some way or another.

There are regular joes who have to live in a universe where living WMDs are around after all, and part of a hero's job is to show that they are people too that just want to help like someone who becomes a police officer, a fireman, etc.

Dox has kinda the same problem, he wants an orderly universe but really lacks ability to connect outside a small group of people. Both him and Paul need to realize its more than being efficient, but just doing good for good's sake.
 
"Yes." I shrug. "But all those children might have gotten electrocuted due to their own foolishness while I was busy saving billions. So what's next?"
Not good for Clark's mental well being.
You know what you can do to make up for it?
Reminding him that he isn't alone to take care of threats Large or small.

Justice League party or Super Family supper.
 
This section is reminding me why I still love the older Superman comics. Ark where he was just walking around was the one that I enjoyed the most. The best Superman is the Superman that connects to people.
"Old" he says..

That one came out not too long before they stopped making Superman comics.
 
Wait he burned down a city? I don't remember that bit. But yes, grounded.
He set fire to drug stashes. With heat vision. From across the city. The stashes were in separate locations.

So as a result those locations would burn out of control as the fire service desperately tried to put them out, but suddenly there are far more fires than they're set up to handle.
 

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