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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Darko said:
Superman may not be a investigative journalist so much as he is just a guy that reports on the community and the Superman stories he writes which don't involve that much investigation since he was there.
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Not directly relevant for the story, but it just hit me that Clark Kent has been totally insulated from the crisis in journalism: declining income and declining quality, pivot towards clickbait. Judging from their usual stagnation DC will probably keep him a journalist long enough that they have to explain "journalist" in an infobox :)

"Kent! Kent! Why did you change the headline from 'Here is the totally weird way you can grab Supermans attention!' to 'Superman rescues pensioners cat from tree and accepts invitation for cup of tea.'?! Damn it, Kent! We are trying to sell advertising here!"

(Honest question: does this cut too close to 'current politics'?)
 
Pinklestia said:
Considering how he has actually been playing nice recently with the League and his friends, unlike Oh El, is most likely a chapter from either the actual Plutoniam or a parody since he is currently a pony.
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Still think it may be an anti alien group if it's a renegade episode.

It could be an episode featuring the actual Plutoniam, considering all the multiversal things going on.

Sordid Snake said:
Not directly relevant for the story, but it just hit me that Clark Kent has been totally insulated from the crisis in journalism: declining income and declining quality, pivot towards clickbait. Judging from their usual stagnation DC will probably keep him a journalist long enough that they have to explain "journalist" in an infobox :)

"Kent! Kent! Why did you change the headline from 'Here is the totally weird way you can grab Supermans attention!' to 'Superman rescues pensioners cat from tree and accepts invitation for cup of tea.'?! Damn it, Kent! We are trying to sell advertising here!"

(Honest question, does this cut too close to 'current politics'?)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It may be more of a societal topic rather than a political, but I'm not sure.
 
Sordid Snake said:
Not directly relevant for the story, but it just hit me that Clark Kent has been totally insulated from the crisis in journalism: declining income and declining quality, pivot towards clickbait. Judging from their usual stagnation DC will probably keep him a journalist long enough that they have to explain "journalist" in an infobox :)
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In current comics, Jimmy works for the digital division, he's basically professional clickbait in a Jackass like manner.

"Watch the videos of Jimmy's 10 most embarrassing rescues by Superman! You won't believe number 7!"

He'd be fired for all the insurance claims from the trail of destruction he leaves in his wake, but it turns out his ad revenue is what keeps the rest of the Daily Planet afloat.
 
Low Politics (part 20)
  • Threadmarks
    • 9th April
    20:11 GMT +2

    Ploutos suppresses a chuckle as he leans back in his chair.

    "And no one's talking to you about this?"

    "Yes, people are talking to me. Other professors, mostly. A few financial journalists, and I had a ten minute conversation with the Minister of Finance."

    "Not the President?"

    He shrugs slowly.

    "I don't think that an alien trading company is going to want to come to Greece. Philippos just wanted to check our economic shock-resistance with me. But… We're not a big country, or a rich country, and I doubt that the aliens will be interested in taking a holiday here. Unless you're going to tell me that I'm wrong?"

    "No, ClusterCorp doesn't run package holidays." I frown. "Though, actually, their form of FTL means that they could. Do you want to bring it up with Manga Khan?"

    "Hah!" Ploutos covers his mouth with his right fist, chuckling to himself for a few moments. "Ahem. Please tell me that you didn't do this for me?"

    "I didn't even want him here. I thought I was getting a LEGION fleet. A small one."

    "And would you have stopped it, if you had known in advance?"

    "I'd have asked Dox to send someone else, and if he wouldn't I'd have warned people."

    "That would certainly have spread the market panic out a little, but I don't think it would actually have helped in the round."

    "No, but they might have blamed me less."

    "Yes. How are you..? Managing." I raise my eyebrows. "I watched the broadcast of your meeting with the Security Council. Where you… Beat your head against your table."

    I shake my head. "That was just frustration, and the fact that I don't really care what they think of me."

    "I wouldn't be so quick to throw aside the usefulness of a good public image."

    "I think that was off the table after the Cake Incident." I sigh. "But really no one's talked to you about it? You're the world's leading financial expert."

    "Greece doesn't have a seat on the Security Council. Every government that does has their own favourite economists and fiscal policies. It will be a little while before I'm drawn into the web of contacts." He leans forwards. "Capitalist economies are only rational over the longer term. In the short term they are panicky and stupid. Particularly now. Do you know what High Frequency Trading is?"

    "Broadly."

    "You know, I… Used to be able to predict share movements… Gains, losses, rebalancings… Even in the short term, even irrational changes, I could predict them fairly well. And then some clever and probably quite rich person plugged a computer into my economy." He shakes his head. "Some men would kill for the blind faith machines which think for people receive. Now… Now I have no idea."

    "And in the longer term?"

    "Oh, just tell me every technology which Lord-Lantern Manga Khan plans on introducing, who he intends to sell it to, what raw materials he intends to deposit on our markets and what raw materials he intends to take away and I will be your oracle. Hmh." He smiles. "A poor choice of words in your case."

    I look away. "Yes. And I… Can't. There are all sorts of technologies he could introduce…"

    But what could he actually make a profit on? ClusterCorp employs economists, but understanding a system as complex as an industrialised planet in any detail takes decades. That's part of why I've been so hesitant. Usually, a merchant cartel in Manga Khan's position would supply products slightly ahead of what the planet could produce at a much lower cost. Which means that a place like Greece really isn't at risk, only the richest countries are. The cheap end of the manufacturing market won't be affected, agriculture won't really be affected… Directly, anyway. And neither will tourism, unless Manga Khan starts offering off-world tours. But he was pretty clear that he didn't mind providing 'security services', and I expect that he'd be looking for a free trade agreement in return. And Greece is pretty stable. I mean, there's Cyprus, but other than that…

    "Yes, it's been interesting watching the ripples from the new wave of power generation technologies, the patterns of investment and divestment. I'm writing a book on it, actually."

    "Okay, so investment in.. developing existing forms of power fell off a cliff. People haven't stopped building generators because it's going to be a while before coverage of the new generators is wide enough."

    Though the 'market disruptors' are putting a lot of effort into it. To expand as fast as they have they must have gotten a good deal of start up money from somewhere, or access to novel fabrication technology. Or maybe I'm underestimating human ingenuity? I'd ask Sephtian who got tapped for the magic-based stuff, but…

    "Yes, and?"

    "Companies which make or develop batteries are going up in value, oil products… The cost is probably going down. Electric cars still need lubricants and rubber. But demand isn't going to go up, their costs are just going to go down. Which means that prices will as well, and profitability might not change." I frown. "Actually, as production falls... Prices might not change at all. I… Don't know."

    "It's a complicated business. Made all the more complicated because I have to factor in the rate at which various market participants realise the things that I've realised."

    "Sounds like it will be a must-read for someone in my position. Let me know when it's published, I'll get a copy."

    "Of course. But going back to your original question, I don't think that Mister Blake's plan will work."

    "Why not?"

    "Lord-Lantern Manga Khan won't want to operate from a country with a vested interest in limiting his access. He'll want to work somewhere dependent on him. Somewhere small. An oil-producing nation would be a good bet, as they would have the ready cash to invest in the infrastructure he would want, but a growing awareness that their place in the global economy was about to take a hit. But of course, a good many of them are already closely aligned-."

    "Bialya."

    The civil war petered out, but the country is the model of a failed state. There's an 'official' government that controls almost no territory and is dependent on foreign aid for its income. Adom's moved away from helping the areas it controls due to a combination of the fact that they're getting help from UN agencies and his general contempt for the situation. But any of the claimants could accept a ClusterCorp presence and benefit from their security services and their own new role as a trading hub.

    "That's plausible." Ploutos nods. "Did Manga Khan say whether he intended to establish a permanent presence here, or is this more temporary?"

    "It sounded fairly permanent."

    "And will any other interstellar concerns follow him?"

    "Probably not. This isn't a rich region of space, and the last time it came to wider galactic attention it was because a lunatic built a giant fleet and was trying to kill everything that exists. We don't have the best reputation." I frown. "How would you handle this?"

    "I would appoint a Tyrant with full dictatorial authority to bypass normal United Nations decision-making, and have them set trade terms by force." He shrugs. "Unfortunately, certain historical events have made people wary of executive power. Even modern Greeks often don't understand how Greek democracy used to work."

    "I'm.. a little surprised-. You think modern democracy is mob rule?"

    He raises his eyebrows. "Isn't it?"
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Last edited:
    Mr Zoat said:
    9th April
    20:11 GMT +2

    Ploutos suppresses a chuckle as he leans back in his chair.
    Click to expand...
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    And OL finally gets around to asking an expert about the financial impact of Manga Khan... Took him long enough.:rolleyes:

    "And no one's talking to you about this?"

    "Yes, people are talking to me. Other professors, mostly. A few financial journalists, and I had a ten minute conversation with the Minister of Finance."
    Click to expand...
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    So no-one with an actual oar in the water. Because Greece is hardly top of the list of ClusterCorp's selling targets.

    "Not the President?"

    He shrugs slowly.

    "I don't think that an alien trading company is going to want to come to Greece. Philip just wanted to check our economic shock-resistance with me. But… We're not a big country, or a rich country, and I doubt that the aliens will be interesting in taking a holiday here. Unless you're going to tell me that I'm wrong?"
    Click to expand...
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    Eh, I doubt aliens will care about some dusty ruins. Especially ones as well-travelled as places in Greece.

    "No, ClusterCorp doesn't run package holidays." I frown. "Though, actually, their form of FTL means that they could. Do you want to bring it up with Manga Khan?"

    "Hah!" Ploutos covers his mouth with his right fist, chuckling to himself for a few moments. "Ahem. Please tell me that you didn't do this for me?"
    Click to expand...
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    Hardly. OL didn't do it at all. Joy of not running the organisation you formed.

    "I didn't even want him here. I thought I was getting a LEGION fleet. A small one."

    "And would you have stopped it, if you had known in advance?"
    Click to expand...
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    Ah, now that's an important question. Especially if he'd had personnel info on Manga Khan, not just his metaknowledge...

    "I'd have asked Dox to send someone else, and if he wouldn't I'd have warned people."

    "That would certain have spread the market panic out a little, but I don't think it would actually have helped in the round."
    Click to expand...
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    Yes, let everyone in on the fun. Economic panic for all!

    "No, but they might have blamed me less."

    "Yes. How are you..? Managing." I raise my eyebrows. "I watched the broadcast of your meeting with the Security Council. Where you… Beat your head against your table."
    Click to expand...
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    Oh, god, that was broadcast? Good gods, could his reputation be any lower with the public right now? Hell, going super-villian might even raise it as people go 'knew it was a matter of time...'

    I shake my head. "That was just frustration, and the fact that I don't really care what they think of me."

    "I wouldn't be so quick to throw aside the usefulness of a good public image."

    "I think that was off the table after the Cake Incident." I sigh. "But really no one's talked to you about it? You're the world's leading financial expert."
    Click to expand...
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    And how well known is that fact outside of Greece, especially outside the financial world? It's not like he's on a first-name basis with various First-World leaders.

    "Greece doesn't have a seat on the Security Council. Every government that does has their own favourite economists and fiscal policies. It will be a little while before I'm drawn into the web of contacts." He leans forwards. "Capitalist economies are only rational over the longer term. In the short term they are panicky and stupid. Particularly now. Do you know what High Frequency Trading is?"

    "Broadly."
    Click to expand...
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    No link for the audience, or should we just look it up ourselves?:D I know, I know, 'I expect a certain level of intelligence amongst my readers...'

    "You know, I… Used to be able to predict share movements… Gains, losses, rebalancings… Even in the short term, even irrational changes, I could predict them fairly well. And then some clever and probably quite rich person plugged a computer into my economy." He shakes his head. "Some men would kill for the blind faith machines which think for people receive. Now… Now I have no idea."
    Click to expand...
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    Up until the financial computers develop their own AI and find religion. Because that's entirely possible in this universe. All it takes is a bit of fancy tech and an accidental lightning strike or coffee spill...

    "And in the longer term?"

    "Oh, just tell me every technology which Lord-Lantern Manga Khan plans on introducing, who he intends to sell it to, what raw materials he intends to deposit on our markets and what raw materials he intends to take away and I will be your oracle. Hmh." He smiles. "A poor choice of words in your case."
    Click to expand...
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    "I heard about the Apollo thing. About damn time."

    I look away. "Yes. And I… Can't. There are all sorts of technologies he could introduce…"

    But what could he actually make a profit on? ClusterCorp employs economists, but understanding a system as complex as an industrialised planet in any detail takes decades. That's part of why I've been so hesitant. Usually, a merchant cartel in Manga Khan's position would supply products slightly ahead of what the planet could produce at a much lower cost. Which means that a place like Greece really isn't at risk, only the richest countries are. The cheap end of the manufacturing market won't be affected, agriculture won't really be affected… Directly, anyway. And neither will tourism, unless Manga Khan starts offering off-world tours. But he was pretty clear that he didn't mind providing 'security services', and I expect that he'd be looking for a free trade agreement in return. And Greece is pretty stable. I mean, there's Cyprus, but other than that…
    Click to expand...
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    I doubt tourism would be all that profitable. I mean, even with his low outlay, how would you price it? As for anything else, I'm sure unless he includes clauses about not trying to duplicate it, anything he sells will soon find itself getting knocked off.

    "Yes, it's been interesting watching the ripples from the new wave of power generation technologies, the patterns of investment and divestment. I'm writing a book on it, actually."

    "Okay, so investment in.. developing existing forms of power fell off a cliff. People haven't stopped building generators because it's going to be a while before coverage of the new generators is wide enough."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I'm sure it's electrifying stuff for Ploutos, but for the rest of us... I certainly don't get much of a charge out of it...

    Though the 'market disruptors' are putting a lot of effort into it. To expand as fast as they have they must have gotten a good deal of start up money from somewhere, or access to novel fabrication technology. Or maybe I'm underestimating human ingenuity? I'd ask Sephtian who got tapped for the magic-based stuff, but…

    "Yes, and?"
    Click to expand...
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    Let's see what input OL has on the subject. After all, technology uplift is something of his pet project...

    "Companies which make or develop batteries are going up in value, oil products… The cost is probably going down. Electric cars still need lubricants and rubber. But demand isn't going to go up, their costs are just going to go down. Which means that prices will as well, and profitability might not change." I frown. "Actually, as production falls... Prices might not change at all. I… Don't know."

    "It's a complicated business. Made all the more complicated because I have to factor in the rate at which various market participants realise the things that I've realised."
    Click to expand...
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    He at least has a divine advantage in that matter. I bet plenty of industry traders are having facepalm moments worldwide every day...

    "Sounds like it will be a must-read for someone in my position. Let me know when it's published, I'll get a copy."

    "Of course. But going back to your original question, I don't think that Mister Blake's plan will work."

    "Why not?"
    Click to expand...
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    Because it was short-sighted and blindly trusted everyone to be friendly?

    "Lord-Lantern Manga Khan won't want to operate from a country with a vested interest in limiting his access. He'll want to work somewhere dependent on him. Somewhere small. An oil-producing nation would be a good bet, as they would have the ready cash to invest in the infrastructure he would want, but a growing awareness that their place in the global economy was about to take a hit. But of course, a good many of them are already closely aligned-."

    "Bialya."
    Click to expand...
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    Oooh, that could be a worry. I bet it's been a mess down there since Adom bisected Queen Bee...

    The civil war petered out, but the country is the model of a failed state. There's an 'official' government that controls almost no territory and is dependent on foreign aid for its income. Adom's moved away from helping the areas it controls due to a combination of the fact that they're getting help from UN agencies and his general contempt for the situation. But any of the claimants could accept a ClusterCorp presence and benefit from their security services and their own new role as a trading hub.
    Click to expand...
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    Read: guns and robot troops they can use to steamroll opponents into submission. Yeah, that's a bad thing...

    "That's plausible." Ploutos nods. "Did Manga Khan say whether he intended to establish a permanent presence here, or is this more temporary?"

    "It sounded fairly permanent."
    Click to expand...
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    I doubt he intends to stick around personally, but he'll almost certainly leave some unlucky low-level managers in charge. Manga Khan doesn't strike me as the type to stick with something once it gets boring... He's all about the cut and thrust of the initial pitch...

    "And will any other interstellar concerns follow him?"

    "Probably not. This isn't a rich region of space, and the last time it came to wider galactic attention it was because a lunatic build a giant fleet and was trying to kill everything that exists. We don't have the best reputation." I frown. "How would you handle this?"
    Click to expand...
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    I suppose Earth being the back end of nowhere in galactic terms has helped it get by unnoticed so far... Probably why the Guardians buried the Life Entity here back in the day (assuming that's how it happened here.)

    "I would appoint a Tyrant with full dictatorial authority to bypass normal United Nations decision-making, and have them set trade terms by force." He shrugs. "Unfortunately, certain historical events have made people wary of executive power. Even modern Greeks often don't understand how Greek democracy used to work."

    "I'm.. a little surprised-. You think modern democracy is mob rule?"

    He raises his eyebrows. "Isn't it?"
    Click to expand...
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    He's got a point... And most of the people you could elevate to Tyranthood would be unlikely to step down afterwards, as they would have in antiquity.

    And so ends 'Low Politics'... I'll admit, this was not one of the better episodes, as amusing as Manga Khan's antics and OL's passive-aggressive non-interventionism got. Politics and economics are not my bag. Bring on the next, and maybe things will start exploding again. :D
     
    Mr Zoat A couple things regarding Greece:

    Phillip not a Greek name, it's a translation of a Greek name. Adult Greeks in Greece of any importance would use the original, even when speaking English. If Ploutos is actually speaking Greek, with the ring translating everything, then we might have to look back at all kinds of other names and see wether they have an English version. Or maybe you already did that from the start and I missed it.

    I don't know how much Ploutos plays favorites with his own country, but if the Greek government in your world actually has a history of trusting and following the advice of a supernatural genius level economist, I'd expect them to be much better off financially than in the real world. The massive financial crisis was entirely avoidable.

    Greece stopped producing as many goods as they used to, partially due to skewed incentives from the EU, which also led in part to a slower recovery from the crisis. It still has one of the largest shipping fleets on Earth.

    There are actually quite a few mineral resources in Greece. They just haven't been exploited. It's hard to find why exactly.
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    He's got a point... And most of the people you could elevate to Tyranthood would be unlikely to step down afterwards, as they would have in antiquity.
    Click to expand...
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    While an Orange Power Ring with sufficient want could almost certainly open an interdimensional portal, the sad fact of the matter is that both Havelock Vetinari and Klaus von Wulfenbach already have pressing engagements.
     
    Rafin said:
    Mr Zoat A couple things regarding Greece:

    Phillip not a Greek name, it's a translation of a Greek name. Adult Greeks in Greece of any importance would use the original, even when speaking English. If Ploutos is actually speaking Greek, with the ring translating everything, then we might have to look back at all kinds of other names and see whether they have an English version. Or maybe you already did that from the start and I missed it.
    Click to expand...
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    I just did a search for Greek first names. If you tell me what it should be then I'll change it.
    I don't know how much Ploutos plays favorites with his own country, but if the Greek government in your world actually has a history of trusting and following the advice of a supernatural genius level economist, I'd expect them to be much better off financially than in the real world. The massive financial crisis was entirely avoidable.
    Click to expand...
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    It was avoided... But it was avoided for the whole world so Greece didn't see a disproportionate benefit.
    Greece stopped producing as many goods as they used to, partially due to skewed incentives from the EU, which also led in part to a slower recovery from the crisis. It still has one of the largest shipping fleets on Earth.

    There are actually quite a few mineral resources in Greece. They just haven't been exploited. It's hard to find why exactly.
    Click to expand...
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    I don't know anything like enough about Greece to actually write the difference between Greece Prime's economy and Greece 16's. If that's a good idea, assume that it's happening to a greater degree than here.
     
    DAT_NOOB said:
    Democracies are mob rule, that's why we have republics.
    (I hope that 300ish years is long enough to count as non-modern politics if not I apologize)
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    'Republic' just means that rulership isn't royal. It doesn't say anything else about the character of the state. North Korea is a republic, even though it appears to be a hereditary dictatorship.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    'Republic' just means that rulership isn't royal. It doesn't say anything else about the character of the state. North Korea is a republic, even though it appears to be a hereditary dictatorship.
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    The Centauri were also part of a republic in Babylon 5, but it was more along the lines of a hereditary oligarchy that appointed a member among their ranks to rule.

    You also don't have to change the name from Philip to something else. Plenty of people have names that sound like they would belong in another country.
     
    Greek dude here. Out of curiosity. If the greek gods are as active as in this fic (and the general dc universe) how does war works. I mean we know that Ares is a hothead and in dc partly responsible for the ww2. What about conficts like the tourkey/greek thing. I know you may not have something in mind. Just interested how would you aproach such an issue in universe. Btw we see pagan gods , signs of the Big G, how about the islamic religion. Are we taking about one big monetheistic block or there is an in universe bifference between Allah and Yahweh
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    And so ends 'Low Politics'...
    Click to expand...
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    I'll admit I'd hoped this would be resolved, a little more. I didn't expect any face-punching, or explosions, but some ideas turned into at least the start of mechanisms to handle the issue would've been nice...

    Of course, you could build a Tyrant. But, unless you were very careful, and, say, also built a nice rose garden for them to go back to looking after, then you're not going to get them stepping-down, later...
     
    Poimenikos said:
    Greek dude here. Out of curiosity. If the greek gods are as active as in this fic (and the general dc universe) how does war works. I mean we know that Ares is a hothead and in dc partly responsible for the ww2. What about conficts like the tourkey/greek thing. I know you may not have something in mind. Just interested how would you aproach such an issue in universe. Btw we see pagan gods , signs of the Big G, how about the islamic religion. Are we taking about one big monetheistic block or there is an in universe bifference between Allah and Yahweh
    Click to expand...
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    Ares is probably an arms dealer that creates some conflicts, like his animated self, but he's probably not responsible for every single conflict and war.

    Allah and Yahweh are probably just the same individual. The difference in the religions is just cultural.
     
    Last edited:
    Darko said:
    It may be more of a societal topic rather than a political, but I'm not sure.
    Click to expand...
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    They tried to modernize him by making him work for a TV News Network however since that involved the TV Netwotk being owned by a Demon instead of a modern version of the Daily Planet status quo returned to normal.

    Honesty it would not be that hard to have the Daily Planet have a webpage, some free content and some subscription only content like exclusive articles and exclusive podcasts. Or to go The Guardian route and work by donations and paid articles/sponsored content.

    Actually the second path would make having Superman exclusives very important.

    Spiderman has done a better job with keeping with the times, Peter Parker has the whole Gig economy thing before they tried to make it cool.
     
    Pinklestia said:
    They tried to modernize him by making him work for a TV News Network however since that involved the TV Netwotk being owned by a Demon instead of a modern version of the Daily Planet status quo returned to normal.

    Honesty it would not be that hard to have the Daily Planet have a webpage, some free content and some subscription only content like exclusive articles and exclusive podcasts. Or to go The Guardian route and work by donations and paid articles/sponsored content.

    Actually the second path would make having Superman exclusives very important.

    Spiderman has done a better job with keeping with the times, Peter Parker has the whole Gig economy thing before they tried to make it cool.
    Click to expand...
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    Was that demon Satanus?

    Seem to remember Supes mention that he was a media mogul during the Angelic episode.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "I would appoint a Tyrant with full dictatorial authority to bypass normal United Nations decision-making, and have them set trade terms by force."
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    And oh look, the only remotely qualified person to do so is sitting right in front of him.
    The only person to consult the best economist on Earth.
    The only person with meaningful off-world contacts.
    The only person on Earth that Khan can't afford to ignore or circumvent.
    One of the very few sane(-ish) people absolutely willing to overturn the status quo and fly in the face of all opinion for what he thinks is right.
    And most critically, someone who emphatically doesn't want the job.
     
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