With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Redhawk · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"As much as I might regard myself as the most important person in the universe, intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge that other people erroneously believe that of themselves as well."

I can't tell if he's joking.

Chojin Patriarch · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
5th July 2012
21:41 GMT

Mr Zoat said:
"'…interest from a number of parties.'"

S'yrra is telling me as accurately as she can what the apparently silent J'emm is broadcasting telepathically to the rest of the Counsel. I've still got my shields up, and unless they specifically ask I'm not going to lower them. It's best if I maintain a single story regarding the safeness of touching my mind.

Playing the part of foreign language interpreter, I see. And telling two differetn groups different stories about how dangerous his mind might well set his cause back, as the ones told it's more dangerous assume he believes that they're inferior...

"'We have long been limited to Mars despite our technology making it perfectly possible to leave our world. Even at its most restrictive, this is an opportunity for Martians to hear the thoughts of those whom we would never have been able to meet without this...'"

I'm sure Mister Jarr'kin could provide some quite interesting memories of thoughts he's experienced.

J'emm is standing in… Martians don't have political parties or heads of state in the way that Britain or America do, so the system for determining who speaks is a little different. The parties who wish to present particular viewpoints pick a spokesmartian from amongst themselves, and they get to take a central position where everyone can question them. And because the telepathy is two-way street, each party knows how and why each other party feels the way they do.

More of an informal system, then. I suppose telepathy does make matters much clearer on the political front.

Imagine if Earth politicians had to lay all their real reasons for motions and proposals out like that...

That may well go some way to explaining why P'thet isn't giving a speech for anyone. There was a bit in… Feet of Clay..? Or was it Fifth Elephant? Where one character observed that people like seeing virtue in others, as long as it doesn't cost them anything. And here, her 'traditional virtues' could well cost them a great deal. I don't expect that more than a radical fringe here are eager to give up their inherited authority, but P'thet's particular brand of fanaticism would just alienate people.

Good. Maybe she'll see just how foolish her beliefs are...

But more likely that she'll just decide the rest are misguided fools, if not outright heretics...

I'm a witness, along with the current Manhunter Marshall and… A couple of Whites I haven't met. One has a Manhunter escort and the other doesn't. Not sure who they are and I don't really need to know. Whoever they are, the Counsel will make a decision before too long and I'll just go from there.

J'emm steps back slightly, and another Red I haven't met before steps forward.

Hmm... I sense a drama bomb being prepared there. What's the bet something is going to explode, culturally if not literally.

"'The principle issue for debate is not the role of any group within our society. It is not the extend of our involvement with aliens. And it is not the extent of members of our species away from Mars. The principle issue for debate is the relationship between the Prelates of individual cities and the Planetary Counsel itself. The issue is whether we are a government or a deliberative body to coordinate the cities. The legal question which Prelate J'emm brings before us is one which would not traditionally be one for us to debate and yet in the present circumstances we find that we must.'"

So he's arguing that.. they should keep their noses out of each other's yards unless it's something that effects everyone? Dude is hard to follow...

"'We are telepaths. Since Karmang established our civilisation there have been only a handful of our people who could truly be considered isolated from one another. And from the information Orange Lantern has shared with us it seems likely that we were not isolated from one another even before that. But distance…'"

I tune out the rest of -coin flip- his opening remarks and lean closer to S'yrra.

Dude's basically trying to filibuster, isn't he? Or is he such a crashing bore no-one really cares?

"In summary?"

"M'ronn is a proponent of city rights. He supported the redevelopment of the surface being organised through the Counsel because it was a worldwide endeavour, but he does not feel that laws affecting a single city should be determined here."

Ha, what a name for him. Still, shouldn't the council offer general guidelines for the cities to follow? Basic standards of.. uh, Humanity, (Martianity?

) to pardon the phrasing? For the rest to take note of.

"So what does that say about individuals who want to leave a city and not go to another?"

"He has not directly addressed-. Ah."

Given that until now, there would be few places for anyone to go other than another city, I'm not surprised it's up in the air.

"Ah?"

"He believes that it should be the exclusive purview of the city's leadership."

Ah, 'keep your fingers out of our business.' Which when it comes down it it is a pretty clear declaration against OL's goals.

"Which would in affect mean that we lose."

"Not necessarily. Pressure could be brought to bear. But it would be a setback."

So it wouldn't be a total failure. Economic and social sanctions then.

"Asking for a friend. What would the logical conclusion of his belief structure mean for declarations of war?"

S'yrra blinks. Ah, no, her telepathy momentarily shut down. Martians don't naturally have eyelids.

That's a fair sign you caught her by surprise with that one. I wonder, have there been wars like that in recent Martian history? Not simply arguments, but all-out kill-or-be-killed battles? I mean, martians would be tremendously hard to kill, after all.

Would their fighting mostly be them staring at each other until one screams and collapses as their mental shields break?

"Logically? If the justification for war was a condition which only… Only applied to a single city, it would be an affair for that city."

"Interesting thing, politics. Will P'thet be voting his way, or will someone be arguing for the Counsel to adopt the Neapolitan position?"

I doubt many will want to stand by those principles...

"A minimal group size is required for a Speaker to be appointed. Prelate P'thet's particular interpretation of our traditions does not meet the requirement."

"And so J'emm comes off as a statist. And the other… Individual?"

'Statist' meaning he wants individual communities to make their own plans for this situation?

"She openly wishes for the Planetary Council to take authority for dealing with matters external to Mars, and to highly restrict the circumstances in which an individual can leave in much the same way individual Prelates can restrict travel to their citizens now."

Huh. So I actually need that last Speaker to lose. Oh, okay, not need, but that would result in the least work on my part to bring about my preferred outcome.

Yeah, that group gaining dominance would pretty much lock down his plans for Colu.

"Has this sort of debate been going on for a while?"

"Since J'onn J'onzz returned for the first time. Before that it was occasionally discussed, but there was no urgency to it. Even afterwards, there was little contact with Earth. The fact that your world is inhabited wasn't news to us, and no one on Earth wanted to visit. There was nothing that was worth trading. And then you visited us, and it became a good deal more urgent."

Gee, external influence shaking up the status quo and disrupting the social order.

You'd think he was important or something...

"What's Prelate J'emm's position on that?"

"That discussing wider political issues distracts us away from the topic at hand."

The topic being the racial tensions? Or OL's offer and the implications of it?

"Yeah, but it does sound like something that would make resolving all of the other issues a lot more simple."

"It would delay you."

Colu is in no rush for freedom. The hostages are being cared for, because damaging them would lessen their captors. It's merely a matter of time...

"As much as I might regard myself as the most important person in the universe, intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge that other people erroneously believe that of themselves as well."

"… Yes."

Everyone's the hero of their own story, and all that.

"It's really no effort for me to check back in a month-."

The third speaker steps back from their speaking position. There's a brief pause, then the Martian who appears to be overseeing the proceedings gestures to-. The Marshall, who strides into the centre of the room.

OL will have his say soon, then. That'll be tricky.

"And him?"

"The Marshall distrusts all external influences. And since he's aware of what the Guardians did to our ancestors, he feels that his distrust was always well founded."

Ah... He just wants the rest of the universe to leave them alone so things can settle down again? How very pedestrian of him.

"Oh? How does he feel about me?"

"He hasn't said anything yet."

I don't doubt he has opinions, but he's clearly very good at keeping them to himself...

"Right, but he's the highest ranking Manhunter officer and you're Prelate J'emm's aide. I assumed that you'd keep up to date."

"I have. I just don't know what he thinks about you. You aren't the centre of the universe."

"That's what you think."

Such an OL thing to say...

Well, that was informative... Looks like many prelates are more concerned with keeping peace than external affairs. I mean, with OL keeping himself shielded, we don't know how the crowd is reacting, unless his interpreter tells him... Let's hope tomorrow helps make things a little clearer.

And because the telepathy is two-way street...

And because telepathy is a two-way street

It is not the extend of our involvement with aliens.

It is not the extent of our involvement with aliens.

"Which would in affect mean that we lose."

"Which would in effect mean that we lose."

RichardWhereat · Dec 31, 2020

Redhawk said:
I can't tell if he's joking.

He must be, as surely any enlightened person would understand that thinking that is erroneous nonsense when I am alive, and thus the most important person in the universe.

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2020

Idkusername said:
Extend -> extent

Mildly confused about what you were correcting for a moment there.

Darko said:
Each of these sentences has three ' , when it should only be "

No, that's correct. S'yrra is quoting what the witness is saying.

maybe 'is a'

Thank you, corrected.

You can just use zhe if you're not sure what the gender of someone is.

I could, but I'm already using that for sexes which don't fit the plug/socket system.

Chaoswind · Dec 31, 2020

Would the fic end if Paul dies? Wouldn't that make the universe revolve around him? Wouldn't that make him the most important person in the universe?

Paul is mostly joking, but there is some truth there.

Darko · Dec 31, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'm sure Mister Jarr'kin could provide some quite interesting memories of thoughts he's experienced.

Well a topic in this debate is relations with aliens, so maybe some alien relations are necessary to be shown.

Chojin Patriarch said:
More of an informal system, then. I suppose telepathy does make matters much clearer on the political front. Imagine if Earth politicians had to lay all their real reasons for motions and proposals out like that...

I imagine either a new era of political unity and peace.

Ohh, who am I kidding, civil war is the most likely thing.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Dude is hard to follow...

He's a politician, what did you expect?

Chojin Patriarch said:
Dude's basically trying to filibuster, isn't he? Or is he such a crashing bore no-one really cares?

There's a difference between these two?

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ha, what a name for him.

At least it's accurate.

Chojin Patriarch said:
That's a fair sign you caught her by surprise with that one. I wonder, have there been wars like that in recent Martian history? Not simply arguments, but all-out kill-or-be-killed battles? I mean, martians would be tremendously hard to kill, after all. Would their fighting mostly be them staring at each other until one screams and collapses as their mental shields break?

I doubt it.

With telepathy it's possible that Martians may not react all that well to such violence.

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2020

moralrelativity said:
to -> of

No, that's corrrect.

Chojin Patriarch said:
'Statist' meaning he wants individual communities to make their own plans for this situation?

No, 'Statist' in that he wants the Counsel to act as the governing body of a nation state.

"Which would in effect mean that we lose."

Thank you, corrected.

Darko · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I could, but I'm already using that for sexes which don't fit the plug/socket system.

Nothing is really stopping you from using it on others.

Plus with Martians being protean and all that, the 'plug/socket' system may not fully apply to them.

Chaoswind said:
Would the fic end if Paul dies? Wouldn't that make the universe revolve around him? Wouldn't that make him the most important person in the universe?

Paul is mostly joking, but there is some truth there.

If he does die then maybe the author can continue to write the story, but through the POV of the other characters.

DrThoth · Dec 31, 2020

Darko said:
If he does die then maybe the author can continue to write the story, but through the POV of the other characters.

Considering we've seen future Paragon exist what seems to be millennia in the future, I don't think that's something to worry about. Would make an interesting alternate timeline though; what if the SI died early on in the story, and his ring got picked up by someone else?

Soul Shocker · Dec 31, 2020

Redhawk said:
I can't tell if he's joking.

Without him, there is no story.
He's going meta, breaking the 4th wall here

SirKaid · Dec 31, 2020

Darko said:
You can just use zhe if you're not sure what the gender of someone is.

Alternatively you could use the singular "they" like a grammatically correct person.

I mean, I'm not about to try and defend the purity of the English language - it being about as pure as yellow snow - but we don't need to dick around with novel and widely unaccepted pronouns when we already have a perfectly good gender neutral pronoun and we have for seven hundred years.

Darko · Dec 31, 2020

SirKaid said:
Alternatively you could use the singular "they" like a grammatically correct person.

I mean, I'm not about to try and defend the purity of the English language - it being about as pure as yellow snow - but we don't need to dick around with novel and widely unaccepted pronouns when we already have a perfectly good gender neutral pronoun and we have for seven hundred years.

'They' is also used to refer to multiple people, while 'zhe' is just used for a single individual and is a gender neutral pronoun.

Agent Orange · Dec 31, 2020

Chaoswind said:
Would the fic end if Paul dies?

But he already died on Christmas? The War Pigeon 'disincorporated' him very thoroughly with his flaming sword. Ofc this fic is still set in DCverse so Pavlos got better.

nobodez · Dec 31, 2020

Darko said:
You can just use zhe if you're not sure what the gender of someone is.

Um, English already has a gender-neutral pronoun, it's "they" (and yes, they can be singular, it's been that way for quite a long time, about the 14th century).

Darko · Dec 31, 2020

nobodez said:
Um, English already has a gender-neutral pronoun, it's "they" (and yes, they can be singular, it's been that way for quite a long time, about the 14th century).

Ehh, figured out that people started using 'zhe' as a gender neutral pronoun a few years ago and just started using it myself.

Flightless Man · Dec 31, 2020

nobodez said:
Um, English already has a gender-neutral pronoun, it's "they" (and yes, they can be singular, it's been that way for quite a long time, about the 14th century).

Zhe is gaining prominence because of how easily they/them can be turned exclusionary. They is often used in the context of others not in this group/outsiders. I will personally use they unless requested to use a different term. But i no longer hate the word 'zhe' as making English even more confusing since i had this explained to me a few weeks ago when i looked it up when Zoat used it.

The talk on martians i still have in my head, and the gender talk now has me wondering how martian genders work.

Do they change whenever they want, choose one and stay as it, only have a single gender, have a caste instead of gender system were they have the genders white/red/green, do they become the opposite gender of whoever is the most dominant/submissive in a relationship? Do they stay genderless for a while and choose/get assigned a gender? or is it like color and you just are a male/female same as you are a white/red/green. Because of guardian interference i hesitate to say both are the same.

I'm just really confused why martians have a gender.

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2020

Flightless Man said:
I'm just really confused why martians have a gender.

The martians have sex because the Guardians deciding that leaving their existing reproductive system in place was a bad idea and used the most common one as a replacement.

AngelicKnight. · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
The martians have sex because the Guardians deciding that leaving their existing reproductive system in place was a bad idea and used the most common one as a replacement.

Snu snu is a practical and fun method.

Also hoe many Martians want to come to earth because of Jonzz Jarkin, or whatever the Martian porn star's name was?

Doccer · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat
Has anyone done a horror show marathon with M'gann? Like The Thing for instance?

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2020

AngelicKnight. said:
Snu snu is a practical and fun method.

Also hoe many Martians want to come to earth because of Jonzz Jarkin, or whatever the Martian porn star's name was?

Was that intentional?

Not all that many, because he included his experiences in transit.

Doccer said:
Mr Zoat
Has anyone done a horror show marathon with M'gann? Like The Thing for instance?

Early on, yes. She mostly used it as an excuse to cling on to Kon.

Bramble Thorn · Dec 31, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
The SI is perfectly capable of bulldozing Martian resistance. He isn't doing that because he prefers to work with people if at all possible.

Ok, this has been bothering me since the witchfolk episode. When he went to the planet where womenfolk had their eyes ritually extracted, he noped the fuck out. Picked someone that had been victimized, gave them an orange ring, and let them ho to town. Didn't care about the historical context. Didn't try talking to anyone or offering technology to easily manufacture and implant cybernetic eyes even better than the ones lost, and lobbying to the sympathetic that their religion only required their birth eyes be given up when they came of age, not that they remain blinded, and making them stay blinded was a sadism separate than their religious vows. And only moving against the intractable.

When he went to witch world, he met people who had personally been victimized by the society.he was working with. Who ancestors and been forced into magical oaths that mutilated those who broke them, in a way that was hereditary. Where those who were descended from the original oathbreaker were treated the same as if they had broken the oath themselves. Who were not protected by the society, but were still haunted by it even when they left into lands it did not cultivate or inhabit, and had no reasonable claim.

Where if they were found they were attacked and killed for daring to band together for mutual protection. This is something people he personally interacted with had experienced, whose desires he could see. He talked to the Lord Protector, and learned he was aware of the issue, and thought it right and proper.

What happened to "When I see the evils of the universe, I shall rejoice. For when I am done, the evils of the universe shall be one less."?

Why did he work with one society and not the other. Why did he give an Orange ring to one victim and not the other.

Instead of shrugging, why didn't he tell the Lord Protector that if those actions happened again, those in charge would be held accountable, or speak with the assembly, and if they were not swayed, do something like trigger the oathbreaking effect in them all (something someone in the episode mentioned he thought was possible), and tell them they might want to seriously investigate how to reverse the process now, offer free sterilisations if they were worried about their children inheriting the weight of their crimes, and imply to the average member the society that the assemblyman all were vulnerable to being marked as oathbreakers by disregarding the word of god as written in Ezekiel 18:20?

Or any of the other things he could do besides shrug his shoulders and ignore the issue, many of which were not that time intensive compared to the change they could bring about? Why did he care about one, and not the other? Why did one offend him, and not the other?

Are you a Nazi, Mr Zoat? Is that why evidence of programs and genocide of the innocent going on in the here and now don't bother you on a visceral level?

Darko · Dec 31, 2020

Bramble Thorn said:
Ok, this has been bothering me since the witchfolk episode. When he went to the planet where womenfolk had their eyes ritually extracted, he noped the fuck out. Picked someone that had been victimized, gave them an orange ring, and let them ho to town. Didn't care about the historical context. Didn't try talking to anyone or offering technology to easily manufacture and implant cybernetic eyes even better than the ones lost, and lobbying to the sympathetic that their religion only required their birth eyes be given up when they came of age, not that they remain blinded, and making them stay blinded was a sadism separate than their religious vows. And only moving against the intractable.

When he went to witch world, he met people who had personally been victimized by the society.he was working with. Who ancestors and been forced into magical oaths that mutilated those who broke them, in a way that was hereditary. Where those who were descended from the original oathbreaker were treated the same as if they had broken the oath themselves. Who were not protected by the society, but were still haunted by it even when they left into lands it did not cultivate or inhabit, and had no reasonable claim.

Where if they were found they were attacked and killed for daring to band together for mutual protection. This is something people he personally interacted with had experienced, whose desires he could see. He talked to the Lord Protector, and learned he was aware of the issue, and thought it right and proper.

What happened to "When I see the evils of the universe, I shall rejoice. For when I am done, the evils of the universe shall be one less."?

Why did he work with one society and not the other. Why did he give an Orange ring to one victim and not the other.

Instead of shrugging, why didn't he tell the Lord Protector that if those actions happened again, those in charge would be held accountable, or speak with the assembly, and if they were not swayed, do something like trigger the oathbreaking effect in them all (something someone in the episode mentioned he thought was possible), and tell them they might want to seriously investigate how to reverse the process now, offer free sterilisations if they were worried about their children inheriting the weight of their crimes, and imply to the average member the society that the assemblyman all were vulnerable to being marked as oathbreakers by disregarding the word of god as written in Ezekiel 18:20?

Or any of the other things he could do besides shrug his shoulders and ignore the issue, many of which were not that time intensive compared to the change they could bring about? Why did he care about one, and not the other? Why did one offend him, and not the other?

Are you a Nazi, Mr Zoat? Is that why evidence of programs and genocide of the innocent going on in the here and now don't bother you on a visceral level?

It's possible that he changed a bit of his behaviour somewhere between the eyeball planet and Witchworld, so he may not hold such beliefs as strongly as he did before.

And when they went to Witchworld they did so in an effort to obtain knowledge on the Sheeda, which the locals may have had, so he may have thought pissing them off when they could have knowledge that could help them stop the Sheeda invasion was a bad idea.

Also on the eyeball planet he went there himself, but on Witchworld several League members went there and they may not have liked it if he caused a diplomatic incident, even if they also disliked the society.

Mr Zoat · Jan 1, 2021

Bramble Thorn said:
Ok, this has been bothering me since the witchfolk episode. When he went to the planet where womenfolk had their eyes ritually extracted, he noped the fuck out. Picked someone that had been victimized, gave them an orange ring, and let them ho to town. Didn't care about the historical context. Didn't try talking to anyone or offering technology to easily manufacture and implant cybernetic eyes even better than the ones lost, and lobbying to the sympathetic that their religion only required their birth eyes be given up when they came of age, not that they remain blinded, and making them stay blinded was a sadism separate than their religious vows. And only moving against the intractable.

When he went to witch world, he met people who had personally been victimized by the society.he was working with. Who ancestors and been forced into magical oaths that mutilated those who broke them, in a way that was hereditary. Where those who were descended from the original oathbreaker were treated the same as if they had broken the oath themselves. Who were not protected by the society, but were still haunted by it even when they left into lands it did not cultivate or inhabit, and had no reasonable claim.

Where if they were found they were attacked and killed for daring to band together for mutual protection. This is something people he personally interacted with had experienced, whose desires he could see. He talked to the Lord Protector, and learned he was aware of the issue, and thought it right and proper.

What happened to "When I see the evils of the universe, I shall rejoice. For when I am done, the evils of the universe shall be one less."?

Why did he work with one society and not the other. Why did he give an Orange ring to one victim and not the other.

Instead of shrugging, why didn't he tell the Lord Protector that if those actions happened again, those in charge would be held accountable, or speak with the assembly, and if they were not swayed, do something like trigger the oathbreaking effect in them all (something someone in the episode mentioned he thought was possible), and tell them they might want to seriously investigate how to reverse the process now, offer free sterilisations if they were worried about their children inheriting the weight of their crimes, and imply to the average member the society that the assemblyman all were vulnerable to being marked as oathbreakers by disregarding the word of god as written in Ezekiel 18:20?

Or any of the other things he could do besides shrug his shoulders and ignore the issue, many of which were not that time intensive compared to the change they could bring about? Why did he care about one, and not the other? Why did one offend him, and not the other?

In space, the SI has a considerable degree of autonomy. He is answerable only to Dox and to the Controllers.

On a Justice League mission, he agrees to follow the commands of whoever is in command. In this case, Diana. In addition, he had a need to gather information for the Sheeda invasion, though events made that a good deal less important than he'd assumed.

Are you a Nazi, Mr Zoat? Is that why evidence of programs and genocide of the innocent going on in the here and now don't bother you on a visceral level?

Old Knife · Jan 1, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"That's what you think."

Self aware that he is an SI?

Darko · Jan 1, 2021

Old Knife said:
Self aware that he is an SI?

Well Ambush Bug called him that, and during the multi Paul crisis thing some of them talked about the fictional universes they are in, so maybe he does realize it now.

Flightless Man · Jan 1, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
The martians have sex because the Guardians deciding that leaving their existing reproductive system in place was a bad idea and used the most common one as a replacement.

Oh. Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Vaermina · Jan 1, 2021

Darko said:
Well Ambush Bug called him that, and during the multi Paul crisis thing some of them talked about the fictional universes they are in, so maybe he does realize it now.

Eh... It seems more likely he just has a giant ego given everything we have seen...

Mr Zoat · Jan 1, 2021

5th July 2012
21:47 GMT

"'Councillors. I am at your service.'"

"Is it odd that the Marshall is Green rather than Red?"

"Not at all. General patrol duties are.. considered appropriate for Green Martians."

"Right, but he's in a command rank. Xan'Xie had Red Manhunters."

"No, they had Red Honour Guards. Mel'dilo'rn allows Reds to join our Manhunters, but it is more usual for separate units of Reds to protect certain high-value sites. Our society does not bar non-Reds from all positions of authority. Only a few cities take it that far. And now I'm behind. Ah, he's concerned about security threats if we are literally incapable of securing our territory… '…individuals capable of faster than light travel are able to go where they please without prior notification or detection. Despite having been far more sophisticated for most of our history and our physical advantages in nearly every respect, nearly the entirety of in-system defence is left to the humans. Even-.'"

"What's that got to do with Whites?"

"He was asked about Mars security in a general sense. Ah, 'removing existing barriers based on colour would allow for a dramatic expansion of our extra-atmospheric capacity and ameliorate the psychological difficulties which we are known to encounter. Since this would put the population outside the traditional bounds of any city, a change in governance structure would be helpful in preserving clear accountability of the military to the civilian government.'"

"How genuine does he sound?"

"He was only recently told about the actions of the Guardians. It has left him with a strong desire to lash out against anything outside of our society. He seeks to control his own desires through regulation and orders, which is a desirable trait."

I nod as the Marshall returns to the waiting area.

"It is now your turn."

"Are you going to be translating for me?"

"No, they will just speak to you."

"Rightoh." I fly to the spot formerly occupied by the Marshall. "Councillors, I am at your service."

The Red leading the opening questions shifts to a more humanoid shape, though they keep the upper part of their head as-was.

"Please state your name and point of interest."

"I am the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps. My interests are twofold. Firstly, I am an off-world party who wishes to employ a significant number of Martians from a city which does not wish to allow me to do so. Ideally, I'd like this Council to rule that they don't have that authority and.. not grant it to them. Secondly, having uncovered the origin of Martian Neapolitanism and having determined that there's no rational underlying biological basis for the common colour-prejudgements, I have a strong distaste for the ongoing role they play in Martian public life."

"'Strong distaste'?"

"I've had contact with species where different subdivisions of that species have widely different physical traits. There, assigning different rights and responsibilities to each group is entirely rational. However, in the Martian case the only effect that I've been able to isolate is that Reds are slightly more psychologically resilient, and even that can be overcome with training. As such, I have concluded that the basis of Neapolitanism is biased prejudgement, and as such it is immoral."

"Your distaste comes from your moral convictions?"

I shrug. "There are many injustices in the universe. If our planets weren't neighbours and it didn't directly affect a friend of mine, it probably wouldn't bother me as much. Though I've.. sometimes considered that morals are a built-in way of forcing us to consider the long term collective good rather than just the short term personal advantage. The policy of continuing to oppress Whites -as some cities are doing- harms them and doesn't help anyone."

"How well do you understand Martian society?"

"Not all that well. Usually, I'd just have my ring download a database, but it isn't compatible with Martian telepathic data storage devices. And M'gann's rather gone native, so… Only ever really explained it in the broadest terms. The first time I even heard Karmang's name was from a member of the Hyperclan, and I still don't truly understand how your reverence for him has shaped your civilisation. Prelate P'thet mentioned that she considered it appropriate that Reds occupy all positions of authority because all of his acolytes were Red."

I shrug.

"But even one as.. devout as she could not point to a commandment from Karmang that non-Reds be excluded, or any record of his justification for choosing Red acolytes. Without the ability to question Karmang personally, I cannot accept the status quo as correct, even within a Martian framework. And there is still no canonical justification for distinguishing between Greens and Whites."

"And outside of that framework?"

"Karmang's just some dead guy, and I don't really care what he said or did."

The fact that Martians aren't big on facial expressions probably explains why me saying 'Jesus is just some dead guy' to the College of Cardinals doesn't get more of a response. Or maybe not. The very fact that J'emm was as moderate as he was when we first met might indicate that this shift has been a while coming. That's the problem with being an outsider in a situation like this: with the best will in the world you just can't tell why what's happening is happening.

"Thank you, Illustres. You will be recalled presently."

I nod, and drift back to my position out of the limelight as one of the Whites moves forwards.

"Well?"

S'yrra shifts her head into a far closer likeness of the human head. Eyebrows, short hair, eyes with discrete irises and a nose. Once her skin has settled on a form she takes a moment to test its range of movement with the reshaped muscles, take a deep breath in and then lets it out.

"You communicated your point clearly and effectively."

"Not going to say anything about the 'some dead guy' line?"

"We don't expect aliens to share our reverence."

"On that note, I asked P'thet about necromancy."

"Necromancy?"

"Communicating with the dead. If Karmang ended up in some sort of afterlife then it should be possible to reach him. If he reincarnated then we're out of luck."

"Reach..? Speak with… Karmang?"

"Apparently, Mars doesn't have a necromantic tradition. Which seems odd to me, because simple necromancy is among the oldest recorded forms of human magic."

"That-. I have not studied magic enough to know if that is possible for us."

"I can get a necromancer. In Atlantis it's not a heavily restricted field."

"You propose-? I will need to speak with Prelate J'emm about this."

AngelicKnight. · Jan 1, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Was that intentional?

Not all that many, because he included his experiences in transit.

Accidental typo.

Awwwwww. Earth would have welcomed them with open arms.

Ans possibly open legs.

Darko · Jan 1, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
'…individuals capable of faster than light travel are able to go where they please without prior notification or detection. Despite having been far more sophisticated for most of our history and our physical advantages in nearly every respect, nearly the entirety of in-system defence is left to the humans. Even-."

missing an ' in this.

Mr Zoat said:
not wish to allow me to do to

'to do it'

Mr Zoat said:
"Karmang's just some dead guy, and I don't really care what he said or did."

Ohh, boy, are you in for a surprise.

Mr Zoat said:
Whites move forwards.

'moves'

Now I wonder how this OL's interaction with Karmang will go.

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