With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[BartlettMagic]

"Why don't we go call 'em up right away?"

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splendid idea, Mammy... leave it to an executive-level demon lord of hell to get things done when others can't

 

[BR549]

...I'm getting a funny feeling about these Guns. Their victims don't show up in Hell, despite generally being prime candidates? And the Guns have seemingly bottomless magazines? Could whatever's inhabiting the Guns be claiming their victims as ammunition? I wonder...

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...that sounds like something out of Enter the Gungeon to me...

 

[Radix]

Honestly it would be interesting to see a Paul who pretends to be Lucifer like Grayven does.

I have only seen the show, but he also has the accent and the theme of what people desire. He dislikes tyrants.

 

[Enochi]

Yeah I must say I could really see Paul being an aspect of Lucifer.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I have only seen the show, but he also has the accent and the theme of what people desire. He dislikes tyrants.

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Comic Lucifer is... Not much like television Lucifer.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

"Them? Yes, we know who they are." He heaves his bulk out of his seat and strolls down the podium. "Why don't we go call 'em up right away?"

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Has someone/something has replaced the demons in the gun to run their own scheme under a false flag operation?
Or have the demons in the guns been embezzling and cooking the books?

Although it would be interesting if it was the opposite of what OL was thinking.
Where instead if being a done to damn those on the dividing line, it was done to do the opposite.
Like killing them for their sins and mystically using that as the full and complete punishment.
Invalidating any claim Hell would have, on account of 'they have already been punished for their crimes; sentence served'
Finite one-and-done punishment for a life's wrongdoing sounds much better then what Hell does.

 

[Darko]

Comic Lucifer is... Not much like television Lucifer.

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Yeah, they're basically different in everything from appearance to power to motivation to ultimate goals.

One of the few traits they share is their love of free will and being douchebags.

Though TV Lucifer is a loveable asshole that can get better as time goes on, while comic Lucifer is practically a sociopath that doesn't really get all that better.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Huh, to be honest, would Paul know if he was unbound aspect of lucifer that had a fake set of memories made.

I mean we know he's not, but we only know that because of the big SI tag on the story. To the paul in the story his origin is More mythically unreachable than krypton, or shangri-la. Its a world he can't interact with even during an infinite crisis. It would be equally plot relevant if it didn't exist at all.


Its only his own arrogance that makes him assume he's an out of context problem and not the creation of a well informed Power.

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Honestly, I don't think his origin matters. Unless he is literally a puppet for some other being, which there has been little to no indication of so far, he is who he is, and how he got to be who he is is only relavent in terms of informing the choices that he makes going forth. It doesn't matter if his memories and personality were entirely fabricated by some demon somewhere, they would still be fully real to him, and if he hadn't found any problem with them before, he shouldn't suddenly find a problem with them, should he realize their falsified nature.

Of course, the intention of whatever being created him should definitely be taken into consideration and balanced with Paul's own desires, in order to find the path that will best get Paul the outcome that he wants.

 

[Michael Vonica]

That's not going to draw unwanted attention from Hades is it? Because he was not too long ago got ticked off by the Silver City taking something that rightfully belongs to him.

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[PDV]

Either Smiley is pulling the same trick he did on Paul or someone made Oblivion Bullets.
Both are terrible things.

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In Pathfinder's official setting, the French Revolution But Worse country has guillotines armed with Final Blades, which entrap the soul of anyone they kill. (They wouldn't want to send any souls to Hell or the Abyss where they would be turned into soldiers and sent right back.) Her guns may do the same, and that might trap the information about their sins right along with them. That would be a relatively good outcome.

 

[AR760]

Yeah, they're basically different in everything from appearance to power to motivation to ultimate goals.

One of the few traits they share is their love of free will and being douchebags.

Though TV Lucifer is a loveable asshole that can get better as time goes on, while comic Lucifer is practically a sociopath that doesn't really get all that better.

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Comics Lucifer is more capable, willful, and just all around a badass than the absolutely terrible attempted tv adaptation. He's a guy who pretty much does his own thing, minds his own business, and ultimately due to his belief in free will, is infinitely better than the cavalcade of DC Divinities interested in fucking with people or writing the script for them.

And funnily enough, when it does come to him fucking with you, he doesn't blink you out of existence. He usually doesn't do the whole smite you with all the starfire in creation thing. He plays your own game according to the rules you've written, and still manages to come out on top.

Personally, I feel like the TV Lucifer is an abomination compared to the comics version. One infinitely less interesting and significantly more modern tv style generic, especially with the cliche Chloe Decker love story bullshit.

Music selection throughout the series was decent though. I will give them that.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Random ass theory.

In the comics, Lucifer wandered off out of the multiverse, getting as far as possible from the source. Beyond the light of god and all.

And then he went on to make his own little universe, and his own little planet, and his own little people. And he told them to NOT worship him.

Maybe that world is Earth Prime.

Maybe why Prime isn't on the normal charts, and why the laws of physics aren't bent by the weirdness of everything else.

Because the Source didn't do it.

 

[Coda]

not one of them so much as coveted their neighbours ass for even a moment

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neighbour's

 

[Pinklestia]

Now this is getting even more interesting, since it seems like the guns were doing more than just killing people.

Could they be soul destroying their victims so they leave no record of their sins?

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Complete erasure? Huh. But wouldn't that also affect people memories and human records?

 

[Mr Zoat]

neighbour's

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Bud-E]

Random ass theory.

In the comics, Lucifer wandered off out of the multiverse, getting as far as possible from the source. Beyond the light of god and all.

And then he went on to make his own little universe, and his own little planet, and his own little people. And he told them to NOT worship him.

Maybe that world is Earth Prime.

Maybe why Prime isn't on the normal charts, and why the laws of physics aren't bent by the weirdness of everything else.

Because the Source didn't do it.

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It is now my headcanon that all the Pauls are the result of Lucifer fucking around with the multiverse.

 

[hkim]

Trailing grape vines wrapped around pillars of white marble, freezes decorated in the classical style and a small band in the corner playing medieval music.

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"friezes", surely?

 

[Mr Zoat]

21st October 2012
20:35 GMT

'Gaudy' is the word that comes to mind when I look around Mammon's summoning chamber. The main body of the room is marble once again, only this time it's black with grey veins running through it. The actual summoning glyphs are poured gold which remains molten in the grooves carved for it in the floor in the centre of the room. Gold braziers burning with golden fire illuminate the room, and wards made of more gold cover the walls.

"I've been meaning to redecorate, but this has sentimental value."

"Really?"

"No. Every atom of gold here is associated with a grave sin, making it a perfect conduit for my magic. And I really like gold." Mammon takes his place at the head of the room. "I delight in shallowness. Out there, I have to appear to have entirely converted to the creed of enlightened self-interest. In my private spaces I can go back to being my true self."

"A giant demonic magpie?"

"Crudely stated, but not untrue. Now we must simply wait for-."

A woman walks in unescorted, dressed in a kimono-inspired dress covered in a cloak made of the same cloth. Which knowing demonic aristocracy is probably something far fouler. Her skin is tan and her hair jet black and if I saw her on Themyscira I wouldn't look at most of her twice. The exception is the left side of her head, where a… Mask? Prosthetic? Cybernetic? An artificial eye, and the side of her jaw is… Rebuilt? Reinforced?

She stares at me with piercing intensity the moment she has line of sight, something in her cybernetic eye refocusing itself and flickering as it does… Something.

"My Lady Mazikeen. Thank you for joining us. I felt that given the nature of the artifice involved it would be appropriate for you to-."

Her organic eye blinks at me. "Father."

Without turning his head, Mammon eyes me for a second and then takes a step away.

"Um. I'm.. reasonably confident that I'm not-."

"You call it the Ophidian, a great elemental being so bound into you that I cannot tell where it begins and you end. You may as well be its human face."

"I've… Always perceived the Ophidian's presence as feminine. Though since she-. It's not biological, that's an honourific."

"The Ophidian granted my mother a small portion of its power to quicken me, so I call it my father. And since you are the Ophidian made flesh, I may as well address you in that fashion."

"Ah… I'm going to need a little while to explain that logic to my girlfriend. And I suppose that I'm going to need to know when your birthday is. Um."

I approach her and slightly awkwardly open my arms for a hug, waiting for some sort of indication that she's actually interested in-.

"You offer your affection freely?"

"Familial relationships are reciprocal. I offer to start such a relationship freely." I shrug. "I can't deny that I sometimes forget that the Ophidian and I are separate beings, and I accept that for better or worse. And if you're on board with Mammon's plans then you can't be all that bad."

She looks up at Mammon. "I believe that we can rule out him being the Morningstar. Though he does sound like someone the Morningstar may have left in my path."

"So is..? Is that a 'no' on the hug..?"

Ignoring me, she walks around the ritual space until she's standing on the opposite side of the summoning pit. I lower my arms, shrugging. I've got no idea how old she is but she's clearly an adult. I'll ask Angelica about her background later.

Lady Mazikeen's eye shifts again as she reviews the summoning grid.

"Accurate. And since The Odium has accepted my suzerainty we won't need to trouble ourselves with true names. By the power of Hell: guns, appear."

For a fraction of a second I see a.. forge? A gun smithy? And some people in classical evil cultist gear. Honestly, I was half-expecting to see John Constantine, but I suppose that the twenties were a bit before his time. And Johanna Constantine was too far back for that style of gun.

And then there's a sort of spark and the guns I remember all too well appear in the centre of the ritual space, about two metres off the ground. The… Flecks of blood and brain that ended up on them after Ms. Carlyle turned them on herself are still visible on the barrel.

"Mistress?"

"Guns." Mammon leans on his podium, as if attending to a tiresome duty. "Explain to me what you were doing with that Jill Carlyle human."

"Nothing, lord."

"It sounds like someone wants to do this the easy way."

Lady Mazikeen's eye clicks and strobes as I connect to the Ophidian, though her posture remains unaltered.

"Nothing! We delight in spurring mortals to murder, but in her there is a great pit. She could not hear us at all! Our voices went… Somewhere, somewhere cold and pressing. And a dull echo came back. Until the blue light blinded and burned it, we could not speak to her at all!"

"Lady and gentleman? Is that claim credib-?"

The glyphs below the guns glow blue and their firing pins glow red with heat! The blood encrusting them blackens and burns, foul smoke rising off them.

"Mistress!"

"Do not think to sneak a lie past my eyes by concealing it within truth. Answer honestly and in full."

"We could speak to her at the beginning! She fought us! Then the darkness came!"

The firing pins dim slightly.

"Who put the darkness in her?"

"Mistress, we were not made with eyes! We can see only dimly!"

"What did you see, then?"

"A god! Cold, forceful! Alpha-Predator! Rock of unyielding will!"

That narrows it down nicely. An evil, strong-willed god. But it does let us know that neither Jill Carlyle nor… The demons, were responsible for all of the deaths.

Mammon frowns. "What about the other sinners?"

"It cared not for sin, and so there was none. It cared only for obedience, and so obedience is all there was!"

Mammon nods. "Illustres, is that at all helpful?"

"It clears a few things up. And gives the investigation a new direction. Thank you, thank you both."

"Do you want the guns?"

"Not particularly. Do you?"

Mammon considers the idea.

"You suggested that I consider sponsoring a vigilante. Having seen what can be achieved by someone acting contrary to Hell's interests, I think that I may just do that."

"Anyone I know?"

"Oh, no, Lantern." He shakes his head. "That'll be my little Secret."

 

[Mr Zoat]

"friezes", surely?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Ganurath]

Whatever happened to Harm's sister, anyhow?

 

[Ngamer11]

"My Lady Mazikeen. Thank you for joining us. I felt that given the nature of the artifice involved it would be appropriate for you to-."

Her organic eye blinks at me. "Father."

Without turning his head, Mammon eyes me for a second and them takes a step away.

"Um. I'm.. reasonably confident that I'm not-."

"You call it the Ophidian, a great elemental being so bound into you that I cannot tell where it begins and you end. You may as well be its human face."

"I've… Always perceived the Ophidians presence as feminine. Thought since she-. It's not biological, that's an honourific."

"The Ophidian granted my mother a small portion of its power to quicken me, so I call it my father. And since you are the Ophidian made flesh, I may as well address you in that fashion."

"Ah… I'm going to need a little while to explain that logic to my girlfriend. And I suppose that I'm going to need to know when your birthday is. Um."

I approach her and slightly awkwardly open my arms for a hug, waiting for some sort of indication that she's actually interested in-.

"You offer your affection freely?"

"Familial relationships are reciprocal. I offer to start such a relationship freely." I shrug. "I can't deny that I sometimes forget that the Ophidian and I are separate beings, and I accept that for better or worse. And if you're on board with Mammon's plans then you can't be all that bad."

She looks up at Mammon. "I believe that we can rule out him being the Morningstar. Though he does sound like someone the Morningstar may have left in my path."

"So is..? Is that a 'no' on the hug..?"

Ignoring me, she walks around the ritual space until she's standing on the opposite side of the summoning pit. I lower my arms, shrugging. I've got no idea how old she is but she's clearly an adult. I'll ask Angelica about her background later.

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How many people are going to call Paul their dad? First it was that Spider Guilder princess, now a high ranking demon who was also Lucifer's follower/lover.

"Guns." Mammon leans on his podium, as if attending to a tiresome duty. "Explain to me what you were doing with that Jill Carlyle human."

"Nothing, lord."

"It sounds like someone wants to do this the easy way."

Lady Mazikeen's eye clicks and strobes as I connect to the Ophidian, though her posture remains unaltered.

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"Nothing! We delight in spurring mortals to murder, but in her there is a great pit. She could not hear us at all! Our voices went… Somewhere, somewhere cold and pressing. And a dull echo came back. Until the blue light blinded and burned it, we could not speak to her at all!"

"Lady and gentleman? Is that claim credib-?"

The glyphs below the guns glow blue and their firing pins glow red with heat! The blood encrusting it blackens and burns, foul smoke rising off them.

"Mistress!"

"Do not think to sneak a lie past my eyes by concealing it within truth. Answer honestly and in full."

"We could speak to her at the beginning! She fought us! Then the darkness came!"

The firing pin dims slightly.

"Who put the darkness in her?"

"Mistress, we were not made with eyes! We can see only dimly!"

"What did you see, then?"

"A god! Cold, forceful! Alpha-Predator! Rock of unyielding will!"

That narrows it down nicely. An evil, strong-willed god. But it does let us know that neither Jill Carlyle or… The demons, were responsible for all of the deaths.

Mammon frowns. "What about the other sinners?"

"It cared not for sin, and so there was none. It cared only for obedience, and so obedience is all there was!"

Mammon nods. "Illustres, is that at all helpful?"

"It clears a few things up. And gives the investigation a new direction. Thank you, thank you both."

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Is Darkseid creating an army of undead superheroes or something?

"Do you want the guns?"

"Not particularly. Do you?"

Mammon considers the idea.

"You suggested that I consider sponsoring a vigilante. Having seen what can be achieved by someone acting contrary to Hell's interests, I think that I may just do that."

"Anyone I know?"

"Oh, no, Lantern." He shakes his head. "That'll be my little Secret."

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Whatever happened to Harm's sister, anyhow?

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Unless Mr Zoat read the Young Justice comic before starting this story, and Paul remembers reading it, he won't be able to see this one coming. I remember Mr Zoat said something about Secret being stuck on Earth not too long ago due to her canon events not happening. Now instead of moving on, she's going to become an agent of Hell. I hope she and Harm don't meet while she has this job.

 

[Darko]

when I look Mammon's summoning chamb

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'I look at'

'Gaudy' is the word that comes to mind when I look Mammon's summoning chamber

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He is a greed demon.

A woman walks in unescorted, dressed in a kimono-inspired dress covered in a cloak made of the same cloth. Which knowing demonic aristocracy is probably something far fouler

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Like the skin of babies sacrificed to demons.

My Lady Mazikeen. Thank you for joining us. I felt that given the nature of the artifice involved it would be appropriate for you to-."

Her organic eye blinks at me. "Father."

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Well...shit.

Without turning his head, Mammon eyes me for a second and them takes a step away.

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Smart move, big boy.

Um. I'm.. reasonably confident that I'm not-."

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Hey, who knows you just may be.

"The Ophidian granted my mother a small portion of its power to quicken me, so I call it my father. And since you are the Ophidian made flesh, I may as well address you in that fashion

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Hmm, I thought that the angel behind the creation of the Silver City was her father.

I approach her and slightly awkwardly open my arms for a hug, waiting for some sort of indication that she's actually interested in-

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Don't count on it.

If she approaches you then it's probably to stab you.

And now you try to show one of your kids affection, when you just left Princess?

You offer your affection freely?"

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Something she's not used to, what with her mother being Bitch Queen Supreme, Lucifer bring a manipulative and self centered egomaniac etc.

Do not think to sneak a lie past my eyes by concealing it within truth

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She's probably learned to pick up a lot of half-truths from Lucifer and all of his misdirections.

"Oh, no, Lantern." He shakes his head. "That'll be my little Secret

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Welp this should be interesting.

 

[Kalem_Lee]

Random Demon: Daddy?
Paul: Booting Parental Faculties. Engaging Hug Mode.

 

[Michael Vonica]

"Familial relationships are reciprocal. I offer to start such a relationship freely." I shrug. "I can't deny that I sometimes forget that the Ophidian and I are separate beings, and I accept that for better or worse. And if you're on board with Mammon's plans then you can't be all that bad."

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So, a creature that was born using a small portion of a being that Paul is, himself, only a very small portion of is enough of a basis for him to attempt to start a familial relationship, but Princess, who was created on the basis of the ideology and teachings that Paul made, and whose existence is a direct consequence of his actions, gets a stern warning and not even a second glance of consideration? Paul is very biased towards dangerous demons and against cute spiders.

 

[Darko]

How many people are going to call Paul their dad? First it was that Spider Guilder princess, now a high ranking demon who was also Lucifer's follower/lover.

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Paul really is just a deadbeat.

Is Darkseid creating an army of undead superheroes or something?

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That sounds more like Nekron to be honest.

This could be his work.

Though Darkseid could be doing this as a sort of philosophical experiment.

He basically corrupted a person's desire for justice into a quest of senseless murder and destruction.

Maybe he wanted to see how even noble intentions could be corrupted and turned towards evil.

starting this story, and Paul remembers reading it, he won't be able to see this one coming. I remember Mr Zoat said something about Secret being stuck on Earth not too long ago due to her canon events not happening

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Apparently she didn't witness her brother bring defeated due to Artemis and Zatanna beating him early.

Now instead of moving on, she's going to become an agent of Hell. I hope she and Harm don't meet while she has this job.

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I don't think your hopes will come true.

 

[Darko]

So, a creature that was born using a small portion of a being that Paul is, himself, only a very small portion of is enough of a basis for him to attempt to start a familial relationship, but Princess, who was created on the basis of the ideology and teachings that Paul made, and whose existence is a direct consequence of his actions, gets a stern warning and not even a second glance of consideration? Paul is very biased towards dangerous demons and against cute spiders.

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Holy crap, you're right.

I think it's the same internal drive that sees him end up with dangerous criminals as love interests.

He is also a occasionally a douchebag and hypocrite.

 

[Bud-E]

I know Apollo and Zeus have a grudge against Paul but I can't see them doing this. I'm betting this evil god relates to Constantine in some way and now Paul has to track him down.
Also, why does Paul use female pronouns to refer to the Odphian has it said it prefers feminine over masculine?

 

[Ngamer11]

I know Apollo and Zeus have a grudge against Paul but I can't see them doing this. I'm betting this evil god relates to Constantine in some way and now Paul has to track him down.
Also, why does Paul use female pronouns to refer to the Odphian has it said it prefers feminine over masculine?

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He once noted that she feels feminine, or something to that effect.

 

[Cuchulin]

That sounds more like Nekton to be honest.
This could be his work.
Though Darkseid could be doing this as a sort of philosophical experiment.
He basically corrupted a person's desire for justice into a quest of senseless murder and destruction.
Maybe he wanted to see how even noble intentions could be corrupted and turned towards evil..

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Seems more like Nekron to me as well. It just really doesn't seem like Darkseid's sort of thing.

 

[Stsword]

I know Apollo and Zeus have a grudge against Paul but I can't see them doing this. I'm betting this evil god relates to Constantine in some way and now Paul has to track him down.

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A darkness that was only dispelled by the blue light of hope, that cared not for sin only obedience, with a vested interest in killing superheroes.

It really does seem to point to Nekron as Darko guessed above.