With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

The Renegade and the Grayven of the Renegade timeline spoke to each other via a screen in the only Renegade segment of Episode 62: Collegiality. Grayven was curious at how another version of himself existed, and the Renegade flexed how much Darkseid 'liked' him more by momentarily using the Anti-Life Equation.

 

Which basically ended the conversation, IIRC.

 

They didn't fight.

They talked over comms and Grayven-16 pussed out like a bitch

 

I mean right now he's trying to negociate.

 

Does anyone remember the New Gods they rescued. Way earlier? Where would they stack vs Grayven?
And where would their heshin-gattai form be?

 

Sooooo...I ship it.

 

Do you mean the Forever People? they'd do about as well as a regular person from what I understand.

 

Dox or Actually Grayven? In either case that sounds like a proper OLC mindset. Paul is more likely to congratulate him/recruit him (respectively) than to complain about it. I distinctly remember 'Klingon Promotion' being a part of the OLC code. Paul said something about it 'encouraging creativity' and something else about the internal structure being based on a 'modified Unseen University system' (with Clarissi and Illustres positions being loosely equivalent to the Archchancellor and the Librarian positions).

 

Pretty sure he was... As Renegade demonstrated a God of conquest goes all out unless their victory is very uncertain because failure gives them a massive debuff.

Grayven stopped not because he was holding back, but because if he went all in and still failed he would have lost a lot of his power.

 

An 800lb orangutan who does whatever he wants does seem to be an appropriate equivalent to Paul, who similarly does whatever he wants because what are they gonna do, call that guy who can stop him?

 

They'd probably do better than that, seeing as they're trained warriors and are New Gods themselves, but he would still most likely beat them since he's way more powerful and experienced.

 

Didn't they lose a fight with Robin even before Renegade stepped in to help?

 

What was his name?

Michael McDoesntexist.

I don't remember much about their meeting, but if they did lose against him then I'm betting it was because they underestimated him, likely due to not knowing who he was and his skills and probably because he's not really all that spiritually powerful.

Grayven however is someone they know about and so they wouldn't underestimate him, but actually take him seriously if they tried to fight him.

They'd still lose of course, but they may provide him with a minor challenge.

 

Who said this?

 

...Wait a second. Is Grayven's voice hoarse from all the god-speech shouting?

 

I am positive Zoat takes some critiscisms into account. People have been saying Dox has been doing a bad job securing his position in OL corp. It would be a good head screw if Dox was making plans with Grayven in secret. Dox did spring this invasion on Paul(his 2nd in command) and again people were critisicing the lack of info. I really think this was a don't answer and let OL get removed by Grayven, plausible deniablity thing. Would explain the delay on fleet coming to earth also.

Grayven was on scene in minutes. No way he didn't have intel.

 

Not just Grayven, Sinestro as well. They are all plotting behind Paul's back. It's not impossible they are conspiring with the Light as well (because we all know that the Light is somehow profiting from every single backroom deal, scandal and natural disaster - yes, even the ones they had no way of predicting or the ones that run counter to their plots. Somehow).

 

Yeah, and now i'm worried what will happen to Jade for Paragons compliance. Same with anyone he has an attatchment to in corp, Like Starfire. Good point on Sinestro, and now Malvolio is free to join them aswell.

Heck i even feel like Zoat predicted/reacted to my own critisism over how i was fearing story was running out of threads by revealing a few more threads have been woven into the tapestry already and i missed them. And then Malvolio gets released and Grayven arrives in Paragon story showing things i had missed or had yet to be revealed will tie into and expand the story/world being crafted even more. I really feel like 60% of our criticism is us missing things with Zoat chuckling over his eventual twist reveal he seeded years ago and no one realized. The last 3 chapters have kind of blown my mind on the possibilities i overlooked.

 

Thank you, corrected. Not sure what happened there. It was right on my version.

 

Ah, yes. The Big Bad Team-Up. Dox (the brains), Sinestro and Malvolio (the Lanterns of the bunch, both with experience in anti-Lantern combat tactics), Grayven (the space god magic and disposable minions)... all they miss is a speedster now to round up the team- No, wait! The Flash! He also appeared in the last possible minute and inserted himself in an important mission (acting extremely OOC) and then promptly ensured that negotiations failed - and got kicked off the League as a result.

I guess they have a full roster after all. It's very likely that Truggs is their Light contact.

 

Say hello with an Orange cake! or perhaps offer him a Pavlova?

 

ehhh, not super impressed with the OG Grayvey- as a person/leader, not as a character, i mean
the godspeech comes across as a bit petulant/whiny,and he's trying too hard to make an intimidating first impression-perhaps intentionally? i mean, given his dad, and the standards for childhood on apokalypse, a complex/mental issues of some form are probably to be expected- though,
you'd think someone who was all about conquest would RELISH someone capable of resisting/putting up a fight that lasts more then three minutes....

@Chojin Patriarch


i think i can see a rationale behind the sweep with the secondary/tertiary batteries-
the shield's effectively a group effort from/reinforced by the other lanterns present- seems like a fairly reasonable, if simple method of doing a quick volley to gather info- if areas/segments fluctuate, its a pretty good indicator that the projector/"projector" in that section isnt up to snuff

 

Meh, I think we'll just start calling him Gravy instead.

 

Correction: Lord John Constantine

 

I'm not seeing this, nor buying the theories of a big space version of the Light moving against Paul. If Dox didn't want Paragon around, he could have just left him on Earth. Paragon is a bit of a sub when it comes to taking orders. Plus, I doubt the Controllers would like to lose their most powerful Lantern.

And the Ophidian would definitely not be happy to lose her Agent.

Dox wouldn't have risked the entire fleet just to kill Paul. He could have arranged Paul to lead a strike force into a Reach stronghold that had a thoushand Beetles waiting for them.

This is just a massive comic plot coincidence.

In normal DC canon, the Forever People were normal humans that were 'adopted' by New Genesis. In YJ canon, I believe they are actual New Gods. In story canon... I don't remember. I'd default to New Gods, though they aren't very powerful ones. From their on screen abilities and powers, othern than their ability to turn into Infinity Man, I would put them below Wonder Woman in terms of strength and skill. I'd consider them comperable to Captain Atom.

 

I think in story with renegade they where almost beaten by regular gangsters.

 

Who had powerful weaponry and the help of a powerful New God, Desaad.

He may not be the greatest of Darkseids Elite, but the fact that he's a member should speak volumes of how dangerous he can be.

 

Exactly. There's a reason why Batman pretty much wins every fight against Superman. Cunning, planning, deviousness, and strategy play a large part. Even Black Canary beat Superboy, who has Wonder Woman level of strength.

Desaad, while not a physical powerhouse, is a mad scientist (God of Torture?). His entire plan was to capture Infinity Man. And simply being a New God doesn't make one strong, as there are a lot of factors to it. It's why Barda is stronger than her husband. Her domain is something physical, while Miracle's isn't. Hell, Barda is probably physically stronger than Renegade without his Rings.

 

I think one of the biggest weaknesses the Forever People had was their arrogance.

They thought that beating a bunch of primitives would be easy, and they also thought that beating Desaad would also be easy due to him not being much of a physical threat and his cowardly nature.

They're probably very skilled and talented New Gods when they get serious, but if they don't then they can be beaten.

They're a lot like the Team. Powerful and skilled when they want to be, but tend to fall short due to personal problems and overconfidence.