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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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I reserve judgement on this Paul until we see more of him. He probably IS going to be evil, but I don't believe Tangseid was in a version of Earth 16 like Paragon, Renegade, Common Sense and Eros. So this is likely a brand new Paul.
 
Wheenesss said:
I reserve judgement on this Paul until we see more of him. He probably IS going to be evil, but I don't believe Tangseid was in a version of Earth 16 like Paragon, Renegade, Common Sense and Eros. So this is likely a brand new Paul.
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In addition to having a female Superman clone, they also had something that looked like their version of the Metro Tower from the DCAU. Also, this is the Paul that deleted Wonder Woman's soul and replaced it with one more agreeable to his desires. We last saw him about to rewrite the personality of a hero who realized what Tangseid had done. He has already taken over the Justice League and ensured there will be no war on Earth by strategically controlling key individuals. How can you not call him evil?
 
Wheenesss said:
I reserve judgement on this Paul until we see more of him. He probably IS going to be evil, but I don't believe Tangseid was in a version of Earth 16 like Paragon, Renegade, Common Sense and Eros. So this is likely a brand new Paul.
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Zoat confirmed that this is Tangseids origin story.

Ngamer11 said:
In addition to having a female Superman clone, they also had something that looked like their version of the Metro Tower from the DCAU. Also, this is the Paul that deleted Wonder Woman's soul and replaced it with one more agreeable to his desires. We last saw him about to rewrite the personality of a hero who realized what Tangseid had done. He has already taken over the Justice League and ensured there will be no war on Earth by strategically controlling key individuals. How can you not call him evil?
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And Abin Sur is still alive here.
 
transhumansage said:
what is tangseid short for? i know part of the name is supposed to resemble darksied but i dont know where tang comes from.
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Tang is an orange flavored powder that you mix with water. Was a NASA space drink, all the rage back when America was really gung ho on space exploration for a bit.
 
Agent Orange said:
You can preprogram rings to execute commands. It doesn't take a superhuman planning ability to add 'and revert me to baseline/previous benchmark. Ignore any commands to the contrary.'

Stsword, was this serum actually called Hyde serum? And was the inventor actually called Jekyll? In universe that is? I know Paul has Oh Shiny! problem at this point of story but you'd think knowing the name and backstory behind the superserum would be enough of a hint even for Paul. I mean this early on he still had enough left over genre savvy to act like an actual person which includes basic trope awareness right? It was only post-Ophidian that he went native.
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Sally's asshole boyfriend called it Dr Hyde's Evil Serum.

He had taken it become the "superhero" Vitaman during WW2, claiming his powers came from "Vitamin X." So basically he pretended to be the British version of Captain America.

So I suppose "Dr Hyde" might not be the Hyde, but a supervillain named after the story. <shrugs>
 
Agent Orange said:
Sugar, spice and everything EVIL!
The sample was glowing green and if he held if without a ring he would've heard maniacal cackling and gigglesnorts. Sounds like some obscure DC take on Erskine's super soldier serum. Paul turned himself into Red Skull (just ya know, Orange).

Do we know why he was so desparate for a power up? He had a lantern right? That's why he could afford to mind rape (and then literally rape) everyone and their dog.
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In a risk to restarting the conversation again... Tangseid kills the previous personalities and installs a new one loyal to him, so its more murder than rape because the new personalities do consent (it would be statutory rape because the new personalities may be nominal adults, but in actuality are just newly formed personalities thus taking advantage of them is not much different from taking advantage of children).

In short, cool history, but still rape, just a different kind of rape... Also murder too.
 
Agent Orange said:
If a person's down to semantics to explain how something is or isn't 'rape' or 'murder' then there's no point in having a discussion with them. I guess this is the point in favour of judges having the power of Rule 0.
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Just getting ahead of the "not rape crowd" by stating the facts... Because by all standards is statutory rape and first or second degree murder at minimum for each and every person Tangseid overwrote... There are some victims he just had to tweak their desires to get what he wanted and those can be argued about, but the ones he overwrote are clearly murder and statutory rape at minimum.
 
Darko said:
Zoat confirmed that this is Tangseids origin story.



And Abin Sur is still alive here.
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Ngamer11 said:
In addition to having a female Superman clone, they also had something that looked like their version of the Metro Tower from the DCAU. Also, this is the Paul that deleted Wonder Woman's soul and replaced it with one more agreeable to his desires. We last saw him about to rewrite the personality of a hero who realized what Tangseid had done. He has already taken over the Justice League and ensured there will be no war on Earth by strategically controlling key individuals. How can you not call him evil?
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Ah. I didn't know that this was in fact Tangseid. I thought he was on a different DC Earth.

Then yeah, he's pretty fucking evil and deserves to have his shit pushed in.

That being said, this is QQ, and I'd be kind of interested in seeing mind control lewds in the Praise of Eros thread.
 
DrThoth said:
Yes, though I don't remember the details of the serum. But this has definitely been discussed before in the thread. Still, it seems a bit redundant when we have Sybarite and Tangseid (unless this is the latter starting out?).

The title made me think this would be set in Good Omens for a second, though that's just where the reference comes from.
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I think I know what this is. It's the serum that was given to Sally Sonic in the comics. And I found it. It was Dr. Hyde's Evil Serum: https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Hyde's_Evil_Serum

So, no wonder Paul turned into "Tangseid" if he took something with that name.
 
It also makes you wonder how come he didn't check how other users of the serum fared before trying it on himself. Did the serum just pop into existence ex nihilo? Either has saw the side effects it had on people and ignored it (which is weird - even if he thought the sample size is too small that just means he needs to try it on a number of volunteers before making the final verdict) or he just used a random serum with no known effects on any people without any people testing (which is just as weird). For fucks sake Luthor did better on safety testing than Paul here. Luthor.
 
If anything could reverse Orange Hyde brainwashing it would be the Lasso of Truth i. Since is a divine artifact connected to the concept f Truth itself.

Granted writers have gone back and forth about the lasso being the one with Truth powers or the thing just using WW truth powers... but at the very least the new personality of Wonder Woman should be unable to use the lasso.

Worst case for Orange Hyde, even trying to use it would reveal the truth to the new personality and will cause the old one to come back.
 
Chaoswind said:
When Paragon OL checked Sally soul he commented she had no connection to Empathy/Compassion, Hope nor Love, so that would explain how Tangseid turned evil and why he was an above average orange lantern (power wise) during the cross over episode.
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I don't think we were ever given a good estimate of how powerful he is in the department of ring use.

He's good with brainwashing people, but he also apparently uses another object meant for brainwashing, but as for other things, we haven't really got a complete clue.

Agent Orange said:
It also makes you wonder how come he didn't check how other users of the serum fared before trying it on himself. Did the serum just pop into existence ex nihilo? Either has saw the side effects it had on people and ignored it (which is weird - even if he thought the sample size is too small that just means he needs to try it on a number of volunteers before making the final verdict) or he just used a random serum with no known effects on any people without any people testing (which is just as weird). For fucks sake Luthor did better on safety testing than Paul here. Luthor.
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Any other users of this serum may be dead or he just can't find them.

He also apparently just tested it on animals before using it on himself.

Hell for all the crap we give renegade he at least had an example of what the super serum he took does to people.

Pinklestia said:
If anything could reverse Orange Hyde brainwashing it would be the Lasso of Truth i. Since is a divine artifact connected to the concept f Truth itself.

Granted writers have gone back and forth about the lasso being the one with Truth powers or the thing just using WW truth powers... but at the very least the new personality of Wonder Woman should be unable to use the lasso.

Worst case for Orange Hyde, even trying to use it would reveal the truth to the new personality and will cause the old one to come back.
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Sadly that may not be the case.

Our evil little bastard here apparently used it when he brainwashed Diana, so it could have either been destroyed or corrupted.
 
Darko said:
Sadly that may not be the case.

Our evil little bastard here apparently used it when he brainwashed Diana, so it could have either been destroyed or corrupted.
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The lasso can be used to tie up WW because the supposed creator was heavy into bondage.

But when WW is under mind control or lying or herself, or has fake memories, it always helps her to see the truth.

I said supposedly because nowadays is suspected two women WW creator was involved with are the ones that really made the character?.However that has never been confirmed.
 
Darko said:
I don't think we were ever given a good estimate of how powerful he is in the department of ring use.

He's good with brainwashing people, but he also apparently uses another object meant for brainwashing, but as for other things, we haven't really got a complete clue.



Any other users of this serum may be dead or he just can't find them.

He also apparently just tested it on animals before using it on himself.

Hell for all the crap we give renegade he at least had an example of what the super serum he took does to people.



Sadly that may not be the case.

Our evil little bastard here apparently used it when he brainwashed Diana, so it could have either been destroyed or corrupted.
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He only made a note of being careful around both enlightened Lanterns IE Paul and Yaul and he wasn't feeling woefully inadequate like common sense Paul was, so its safe to assume he was around the top power wise, but weak enough that both Paul and Yaul worried him a great deal.
 
Darko said:
or he just can't find them
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If only he had a piece of clarketech that can scan an entire sector worth of space for specific chemical configurations... Oh wait, I forgot, any user of the serum would conveniently be under scry wards/in some other sector at the moment he was scanning for it! /s It's completely in character for Paul to use a serum he never heard off and of which no documentation exists anywhere.
 
Agent Orange said:
If only he had a piece of clarketech that can scan an entire sector worth of space for specific chemical configurations... Oh wait, I forgot, any user of the serum would conveniently be under scry wards/in some other sector at the moment he was scanning for it! /s It's completely in character for Paul to use a serum he never heard off and of which no documentation exists anywhere.
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Not all Paul's started out the same way personality wise, like paragon and renegade being different, so it's possible that this version is less cautios in some manners.
 
The title of this latest chapter run in line with Sybarite, but there's no meniton of demon-eating, and none of his chapters have years with the date. This does seem like a Paul that was him enough to still be him, but liberated enough to remove some of the hesitancy that Paul has with things like this (this is per the Sybarite/Paul conversation during the Infinite Pauls arc).

Though.. a Sybarite-Artemis pairing is something I approve of, but Zoat just likes to tease me with giving her a good pairing, so I don't expect to see them doing any naked wrestling outside of my head.

Also, I'm sure having Alan accuse him of turning into a rapist isn't what made Sybarite be Sybarite. He clearly doesn't have a personal lantern, and this Earth still has Abin Sur as their GL. Eating that Incubus first probably is what turned him into Super Lewd.
 
Pez said:
The title of this latest chapter run in line with Sybarite, but there's no meniton of demon-eating, and none of his chapters have years with the date. This does seem like a Paul that was him enough to still be him, but liberated enough to remove some of the hesitancy that Paul has with things like this (this is per the Sybarite/Paul conversation during the Infinite Pauls arc).

Though.. a Sybarite-Artemis pairing is something I approve of, but Zoat just likes to tease me with giving her a good pairing, so I don't expect to see them doing any naked wrestling outside of my head.

Also, I'm sure having Alan accuse him of turning into a rapist isn't what made Sybarite be Sybarite. He clearly doesn't have a personal lantern, and this Earth still has Abin Sur as their GL. Eating that Incubus first probably is what turned him into Super Lewd.
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This isn't Sybarite.

This is Tangseid.

They are two different people.

Sybarite is the one that eats demons.

He also never even met Alan, or joined the League or Team equivalent, but just did his own thing.

He's also not a rapist, he's just very perverted, but otherwise doesn't force people to have sex with him.

Tangseid apparently joined a Team equivalent, so he most likely has a Lantern, plus he also apparently got his hands on the CPB.

He apparently started his road to evil by injecting himself with some kind of serum that increased his negative personality traits, not by eating demons.
 
At first I thought we had a more proactive Paul here that was uplifting himself while being less reckless than Renegade. Then I saw the orange text and knew this was Tangside. That sudden rise in desire felt very similar to how he perceived his... toys.

This looks like it works. The animals I've tested it on get stronger, tougher and heal faster. And otherwise, neither their behaviour or appearance change. Well, not beyond the more dominant position they take in their social group as a result of being a whole lot stronger.
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Just to be clear, he noticed a change in behavior, but chalked it up to just being more dominant because of strength. That is so f*ing stupid. That change in behavior right there is a big red flag, and should have been studied much more thoroughly. Not to mention tested on actual humans like others have mentioned.


Vaermina said:
I wouldn't say this Paul was particularly more stupid then any of the others. It's just that he didn't have the dues ex machina protection the others enjoy that protect them from the downsides of their stupid decisions.

For example those tattoos Paragon had carved onto his soul? Canonically they have the serious downside of killing a being if they ever go to Hell.
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That downside is something that could not be readily predicted. Paragon consulted experts and looked at previous examples and kept careful watch. He did the best to his knowledge especially since the downside is no soul.

What baby Tangside did here is stupid in foresight. He completely ignored dozens of safety precautions about testing from both a scientific and practical standpoint. You never test an experimental serum on yourself first, and animals are not sufficient testing. Especially when there are behavioral changes.


Remind me again why Paul couldn't use the Garrick formula? Was it because of Ophidian or his runes? Cause given that KF exists, it clearly exists in Tangseid's world and could be easily replicated with less downsides than this.

Tangseid definitely murders personalities. Does it count as statuary rape? Isn't the point of that more because of developing brain patterns and hormonal imbalance? A fully constructed intelligence wouldn't be developed. I wouldn't say the crime would be what comes after, but the act of the creation itself. Is it wrong to create a being that is devoted to you and wants to have sex? I don't actually think that is the issue. The clear issue is the fact that he is murdering and altering the will of people non-consensually. Even what he did to Ollie was a massive violation of consent that I would argue is far worse than rape, statuary or otherwise.
 
Mr Zoat said:
There are only so many things I can write about someone like that, and I... Don't have any ideas at the moment.

Because that creates a sense of obligation.
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i would like to see about more ways in which he makes the world a better place. or even updates where we find out examples of how his company is changing people's lives....
 
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