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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat, how did Tangseid brainwash Captain Marvel? He might not be at Diana's level but I'd imagine he has considerable metaphysical resistance in his own right, even without active training like Black Adam gave him in the Paragon timeline. I'd assume brainwash him while he was human but I'm not sure if that would survive post-transformation, though if he did the same personality erasure thing he did for Diana then as horrific as that is, I suppose that would work?
 
DrThoth said:
Mr Zoat, how did Tangseid brainwash Captain Marvel? He might not be at Diana's level but I'd imagine he has considerable metaphysical resistance in his own right, even without active training like Black Adam gave him in the Paragon timeline. I'd assume brainwash him while he was human but I'm not sure if that would survive post-transformation, though if he did the same personality erasure thing he did for Diana then as horrific as that is, I suppose that would work?
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He may have done the same thing he did with Diana, or used Nabu or Circe to help him, he was controlled by the Light so it's possible to do it, and either found a way to make it so that he's controlled in both his child and transformed form, or just made him stay in his transformed state 24/7.

He could have also killed Billy and made it look like it wasn't him.

Or Billy may not even exist in that universe.
 
DrThoth said:
Mr Zoat, how did Tangseid brainwash Captain Marvel? He might not be at Diana's level but I'd imagine he has considerable metaphysical resistance in his own right, even without active training like Black Adam gave him in the Paragon timeline. I'd assume brainwash him while he was human but I'm not sure if that would survive post-transformation, though if he did the same personality erasure thing he did for Diana then as horrific as that is, I suppose that would work?
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I hadn't really thought about it. He would certainly be resilient in his Captain Marvel form, but I think that a mild change in Billy's temperament would survive the transformation process.

On the other hand, he might just have not bothered on the grounds that Marvel lacks the skills to notice what he was doing, and that the Wisdom of Solomon would cause him to accept a utilitarian argument.
 
This has probably been answered in previous threads, but the recent note of Ahrian being Lovecraft-level racist leads me to wonder what would happen if non-humanoid Atlanteans had Divine Awakening; Michael became humanoid so would they just begin to look like purebloods? I'll admit, I would find that a bit boring.
 
DrThoth said:
This has probably been answered in previous threads, but the recent note of Ahrian being Lovecraft-level racist leads me to wonder what would happen if non-humanoid Atlanteans had Divine Awakening; Michael became humanoid so would they just begin to look like purebloods? I'll admit, I would find that a bit boring.
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Who is Michael?

Atlanteans like Kaldur have gills because of errors in the spell. Other types of Atlantean are the result of other spells and so the outcome would be different.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Who is Michael?
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Tawny the Tiger, who became a cat-man at some point. I'm not sure how publicly known he is but I'd imagine he'd be fun for publicity (not to mention popular with various subcultures).

It would be cool to see New Gods that aren't human or humanoid; I wonder if Topo could do a convincing Cthulhu or at least mind-flayer impersonation if he was ever Awakened.
 
Darko said:
Michael Tawny.

The tiger renegade Awoke.
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Oh, right. It's more than it gave him a degree of plasticity, and he spends almost all his time humanoid because that's the shape all his friends have.
So those that have Kaldurs grafts have them due to a mistake and not because Ahri'ahn made the spell like that because he was a racist bastard?
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No, the flaw is semi-intentional. Ahri'ahn ensured that the 'proper' people got the good version of the spell and provided a 'simplified' version for general use.
Doccer said:
I get the feeling Mr Zoat woke up this morning feeling like he wanted to troll Paul today.
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You think I wrote this this morning? How early do you think I get up?
 
Handlewithcare said:
What makes you assume we would want to die? Because there would be nothing left to strive for?
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It's called a terminal value for a reason. If you're still sticking around, why? That's the thing you still want.
Even the paperclipper AI eventually converts its own core into one final paperclip to finish its work.
 
rkyeun said:
It's called a terminal value for a reason. If you're still sticking around, why? That's the thing you still want.
Even the paperclipper AI eventually converts its own core into one final paperclip to finish its work.
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What if whst I want is a continous value? "Fun with friends", " good food at certain intervalls", "regular sex" etc.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Oh, right. It's more than it gave him a degree of plasticity, and he spends almost all his time humanoid because that's the shape all his friends have.
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Would other New Gods (typical or Awakened from humans) possess that same plasticity? It's probably too late for it now but Artemis having physically shifted to look like a Sheeda as part of being their goddess-queen could have been cool. Or is it something specific to Tawny as part of his New God domain, since his origin involved a degree of mutation and alteration already?
 
DrThoth said:
Would other New Gods (typical or Awakened from humans) possess that same plasticity? It's probably too late for it now but Artemis having physically shifted to look like a Sheeda as part of being their goddess-queen could have been cool. Or is it something specific to Tawny as part of his New God domain, since his origin involved a degree of mutation and alteration already?
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Some probably do.
 
Mr Zoat said:
No, the flaw is semi-intentional. Ahri'ahn ensured that the 'proper' people got the good version of the spell and provided a 'simplified' version for general use.
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What was the basis of distinction between 'proper' and non-proper people in pre-sinking Atlantis? Did they have different races or ethnicities or was it more of a class thing?
 
Handlewithcare said:
What if whst I want is a continous value? "Fun with friends", " good food at certain intervalls", "regular sex" etc.
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This is a question known as Fun Theory, or the Boredom Problem. We play tic tac toe as children, but eventually we stop. The game bores us. We grow more intelligent. We strip mine all the fun from tic tac toe. Then we don't want to play it with our friends anymore. We move on to checkers. That's a more complicated game that takes a bit more foresight and benefits from the added complexity. Then chess. Then go. Good food all the time soon loses its luster as well, as the best food you've ever eaten can only grow better over time and becomes the standard to which all other food is compared. And believe me, I feel you. I'm an altruistic hedonist. I want to maximize the amount of hedons I accrue, and I recognize that friends make more fun possible, so I want those friends to also have all the fun. But there's diminishing returns. You either die having fun, or live long enough to do everything until it isn't fun. At some point, your experience starts to dip into negative hedons. All the hobbies have been invented, joined, lost, rediscovered, and been committed to muscle memory. Every AGDQ has people who have cybernetic superintelligent brains, and they all tie with TASbot performing the same run they did last hundred years. And then you turn the TV off because you don't want to watch it anymore. You've had your fun.
 
Doccer said:
Why the crack of dawn of course!
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...

Given the current number of daylight hours, I'm getting up well before dawn.
DrThoth said:
What was the basis of distinction between 'proper' and non-proper people in pre-sinking Atlantis? Did they have different races or ethnicities or was it more of a class thing?
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City. The closer to Poseidonis they were, the more he approved of them.
Stsword said:
The Hawaiian Shark People are shark people because Arion saw them as a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs, etc, etc.
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Sort of. In the case of the sharks, they developed that themselves.
 
Meanwhile, in Universe 534834 (part 3)
  • Threadmarks
    • Earth 534834

    20th November 1992
    11:13 GMT -5

    I look at Jubilee mournfully. As mournfully as I can while covered in the blasted, chocolaty remains of the morning's work.

    240px-Paragon_Interrupt.png


    "I… I guess I used too much baking powder."

    I blink, then raise my right hand to my eyes to wipe some of the… Ex-cake, off my face while my assistant gasps in shock… Then snorts in amusement.

    "Oh, whaw. Are you okay?"

    Because 'baking powder' obviously explains why the plate shattered and the icing went everywhere like I added gelignite rather than gelatine. Fortunately, the work surface took the worst of it and my environmental shield is still up, but exploding shards of pottery are no laughing matter.

    "I'm caked in cake, Jubilee."

    "What in tarnation-?"

    Rogue flies into the kitchen at speed, double takes and lands unsteadily, staring wide-eyed at me.

    I spread my arms apologetically. "I'm afraid that lunch may be somewhat delayed."

    She smiles as she approaches, pulling off her right glove and using her exposed hand to scoop cake off my right cheek. She then… Inserts the middle three fingers into her mouth, making a loud… Sucking noi-.

    "Ew! Gross!"

    Jubilee pulls a face, then turns and double-times out of the kitchen as Rogue pulls out her fingers, her tongue following them-.

    "Summat goin' on in here?"

    Logan steps around the retreating Jubilee, sniffs, and looks both of us over as Rogue and I awkwardly step apart. Then he turns around, waving his right hand dismissively.

    "Try not ta wreck the place. And maybe put a sock on the door next time."

    He closes the door with a thump, thoroughly killing the mood.

    Rogue and I… Avoid one another's eyes for a moment as I use the ring to clean up the blast zone. Rogue's… Been very… Tactile with me ever since I started training here, for… Obvious reasons. And she's a very attractive woman, and… That's a novel experience for me. But we don't actually know each other all that well, and… A certain existing member of the team has been making it clear that he's not at all happy with the way things have been developing. This is the furthest he's taken things, but if he's getting this petulant then I… Need to have a word with the man.

    And I need to do it now, not after Rogue's finished licking her fingers clean.

    As pleasant as that is to watch.

    "As, ah… Appealing as that sounds, I need to go and have a word with Mister Le.. Beau."

    Rogue sighs. "And why, ah'm sure ah can't imagine." She raises her eyebrows. "Am ah gunna need a hose for you boys?"

    Ignoring the idea of a masculine wet t-shirt contest that suddenly appears in my mind, I shake my head.

    "My word of honour that I will keep things-" A wave of orange removes the cake from me before turning into a construct rubbish bag and depositing it in the bin. "-civilised."

    "Guess a fellah's gotta do what a fellah's gotta do."

    I nod.

    And neither of us mov-. Oh come on! I turn away, heading out through the kitchen's other door, out through one of the Manor's many side exits, around to the front-.

    Mr LeBeau and I walk into each other.

    The ring keeps me in place while he instinctively springs back, right hand going for his collapsible staff. It takes him a second to process who I am, and when he does his expression doesn't get any friendlier.

    I smile. "Mister LeBeau. Just the man I wanted to speak to."

    "Can't imagine I got much I wanna say to you."

    "I'm sorry, but it's somewhat hard to parse the meaning of an exploding cake." He smirks. "And I'm sure that if I let it go you'd continue pranking me in a similarly juvenile fashion, so I thought that I'd give you the opportunity to air your grievance to my face like a civilised adult. Though I suppose you don't really need to since it's obvious what it is."

    "Since you wanna do this civilized-like, it ain't too polite to chase after another man's girl."

    "Leaving aside the uncomfortable implication that you could own another human being, and ignoring the fact that I've seen you hit on four other women since I've been here -one in the middle of a fire fight- I rather think that's her decision. And it's a very easy one, because I've got an advantage that you don't. I can touch her, and you can't."

    His face hardens.

    "Which just emphasises to me that you're not serious about her, and this reaction is the result of pure.. thwarted.. pride."

    "Wouldn't mind seeing how you touch her without dat ring."

    "Mister LeBeau, you live in a world of hover wheelchairs, man-portable plasma weapons and giant robots. And yet, not once have you attempted to acquire a device that would let you touch her. You simply threw 'charm' at her in the hope that she'd eventually… What, succumb and drain you to death?"

    He frowns.

    "How m'ah supposed to make something like dat, exactly?"

    "From one of any number of high-tech research companies? Skin-tight force fields have any number of applications. You wouldn't even need to tell them what you planned on using it for. But since that hasn't occurred to you to do that… Fine. How about you and me go and visit Anthony Stark and see what he can come up with?"

    He blinks, his surliness momentarily shocked into abeyance.

    "You plannin' on helping me? Why?"

    "Because it's one thing to win a race because you were the better man on the day, and quite another to win it because the other man didn't bother turning up on the day. If I don't help you, I get to spend the rest of my life wondering if Rogue's with me because I'm the best bet out of the handful of people she could be with. And I'd probably be fine with that, actually, but I'm trying to be the bigger man here."

    He hesitates.

    "Do you want to turn into Logan? Because this is how you turn into Logan."

    The surliness returns, but not quite to the same intensity. Good, he at least recognises that there's a problem.

    "Professor think Rogue can learn to control her power."

    "Yes. Hopefully. Maybe. Eventually. Frankly, I think Professor Xavier is being too optimistic, but even he doesn't have any idea how long that could take. And you know she's motivated to learn. How long were you expecting her to put her life on hold for?"

    He nods grudgingly.

    "You know Stark?"

    "Never met the man. But I've got what I think is a piece of alien technology I think he'll trade for his help. Make a decision, Mister LeBeau."

    He nods, returning his collapsed staff to its sheath.

    "You wanna give Rogue to me, be foolish not to accept."

    "That's really not what I'm doing." I rise into the air. "The headquarters of Stark Enterprises is in New York. Can you make your own way, or do you need a lift?"
     
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