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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    He's called Lord Protector.

    He actually ended up in the 21st century version of the Thundercats cartoon, but later on ended up going to the Worm universe and killed some of the bad guys, like Lung.

    And for some reason he's helping Nilbog, a deranged and delusional mass murderer.

    Now I'm sad.
     
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  2. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    ET
    That our this is supposed to be a sign of his desires/thoughts getting frazzled.
     
  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Oh, no, the thrown bolts are stupid. It's the resulting impact that's significant. You'll not that the scarab warrior from this episode fired his out of a gun.

    My explanation for the bolts in this story is that 1) it's actually really hard to manipulate qwa-matter and 2) they're a lot more advanced than they look.
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  4. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    I Despise memory lose arcs, and Detest power regression.

    I think I'm going to duck out for a few months.
     
  5. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    So you know what I'm going to write not only before I post it but before I even write it?

    Gosh, you're clever.
     
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  6. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    While that does give me hope I have to agree with Grimnar, those are some of the worst tropes in fiction and for the most part this story has managed to avoid them and I’d be extraordinarily disappointed if they came in now

    I’ll give each update a quick skim but until I know how this pans out I’m probably not going to be reading the arc in it’s entirety because if this is a long term nerf and/or memory loss then that’s kind of story killing stuff for me
     
  7. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    And this only a couple pages after someone complaining that the main character never takes any serious losses.

    Can't win 'em all, I guess.
     
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  8. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I mean, I call a huge amount of bullshit over that

    The fact that OL rolls with the punches and eventually overcomes or moves around his losses doesn’t mean those losses never happened

    Plus even if that was true, which in my opinion it isn’t, there’s a hundred different things that could be done other than memory loss and power regression
     
  9. Flightless Man

    Flightless Man Versed in the lewd.

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    More of reseting them to an earlier point in the story. If chapter 20 Paul woke up, it would be a reason he spends time with the team again.

    I'm not for or against it, it's just a possible way of keeping the same general character(personality wise) but depowering and taking authority away while he retrains/regains memories.
     
  10. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

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    A waste of hundreds of thousands of words, imo.
     
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  11. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I mean it would undo literally the majority of the story, which is especially frustrating when we’ve just gotten to the much hyped Reach War and after the disappointment that was the Clash of Infinite Pauls I’d hate to have it happen again
     
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  12. hkim

    hkim Know what you're doing yet?

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    You don't think that after Paul's had major effects on the world, dialing him back and having that world need to have an effect on him again would be an interesting source of drama and character interactions?
     
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  13. Pez

    Pez Spaceman

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    I'm not going to freak out, because until it becomes some kind of permanent reset or power regression, it isn't. When bad shit like this happens to Paul, he adapts and eventually becomes more: the shit with Troggs (I think I got that name right), the merger with the Ophidian, all the soul stuff, etc.

    I will say, though, that even as imba as Qwa Matter is, I don't think Paul would have succummbed to it. I think his desire to live should have held his body together, even if he was left in a state of constantly needed to desire to live to keep his body from becoming nothing, until they did some Ophidian/Orange CPB merger nonsense that would then allow Paul to shoot Qwa Matter from his eyes as Vox changes his war strategy and just lets Paul blow up all the Reach's suns.

    I am a bit disappointed that, as he was disentegrating, he never thought of Jade, especially after his little joke on how he would have liked it if Jade became a Violet Lantern and powered her ring with her love for him.

    This is one of the reasons that keeps me from reading comics. First, I can't stand becoming invested in a story, just for it to be dropped because it's not making money. Second, all the god damn resets or changes to make things neater. It's the curse of comics, I understand that, but it still pisses me off. It's why reboots and remakes are so horrible.
     
  14. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    It's actually Truggs.
     
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  15. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    It depends entirely on how long it lasts for, if it lasts an episode? Sure, that could maybe be interesting if ultimately pointless since once he returns to his normal self he’ll be enlightened again and be exactly the way he was before he got hit. But if it lasts longer than that? Absolutely not, I want to see the story actually progress not deal with this random setback

    Also I just thought of something, surely it should be physically impossible for OL to become unenlightened? His soul is literally bonded to the immortal, omniscient Entity of Avarice. Short of his soul being completely destroyed and rebuilt, which means this is permanent or at the very least extremely long lasting, the Ophidian should be able to just go “Boop, here’s all your memories back”
     
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  16. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    The Ophidian, while powerful, may be limited in what she can do.
     
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  17. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I mean, not really? She’s one of the fundamental aspects of life in the universe and OL has basically been a part of her for over a year now

    Unless he now has a completely different soul, which has its own major problems, the Ophidian should be able to find him and essentially back up the last save of him
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  18. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

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    I suppose that it could be easy as just bringing Paul to the Orange Central Power Battery, where Ophidian fixes him.
     
  19. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    This is progressing, because the story has been static due to Paragon's power level for over a year.


    You might want to actually look up what the Entities powers are... Cause resurrecting people is purely a white thing... And messing with Souls is purely a Black.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  20. Lone Courier 6

    Lone Courier 6 Wanderer of threads

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    IRRC not even Parallax Hal Jordan could do that and he was capable of ALOT of bullshit.

    EDIT: Wait no, he resurrected Oliver Queen before he reiginited the sun.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  21. hkim

    hkim Know what you're doing yet?

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    This so much. A character's stats are not the story. Losing powers isn't going "backwards" or "undoing the story". Conflict and loss are good for stories. We'll see how Zoat pulls if off of course - if nothing else I'd imagine we'll get some fun Orange moments.


    -obligatory "wow agreeing with vaermina note, we're walking-
     
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  22. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Sort of, the brought back Oliver Queen was missing both his soul and most of his memories.

    So I would say that was less of a resurrection and more of a meat puppet incident.
     
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  23. Lone Courier 6

    Lone Courier 6 Wanderer of threads

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    And the Embodiments of each Light are all about equivalent, the Ophidian *only* has Orange Light, just as Ion only as Green Light, Ophidian can WANT all she can...but at a certain point that is insufficient.
     
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  24. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    So, not going to lie, pretty annoyed that the second OL finally starts showing some flex and not having his every effort shut down or tanked....he gets one shot by a mega bullshit beam.

    Now, normally I would suspect that the loss of his memories and Orange quotes would be yet another Thor gets set back because Mjölnir was broken again, gotta give up the Odinforce and head back to the status quo once more. Because during my time as a lower assistant at Marvel, god damn did I have to sit in a lot of meetings with writers who wanted nothing more than to undo/ignore continuity because they either didn't care, or liked how things were "before".

    But Zoat has earned more faith than that. I really can't see him doing a depower, even though its the thing I've feared happening every single time the bitchfest starts.

    I didn't forget about you.

    So, again, here is where we divide.

    Because to me, everything about Rene-Paul is a lie. He's putting on an act at almost all times, and what's worse, he knows that. So his time with Ace, and his "love" for her, is another thing I chalk up as him bullshiting. He's out and out lying to her about who he is. Furthermore, I believe he shared part of his soul with her? Which I attribute as the source for most of his feelings for her.

    His rejection of self, of who he really is, really rubs me the wrong way. I thought we were getting somewhere when he had that episode at the Source wall, when he out and out declared his name to be "Paul".

    So, to me mind you, ALL of his relationships are false. Because ALL of them are based around lies.

    But that's me.

    But it is.

    So, longtime Hulk and Thor fan here.

    Do you know how many times I've had to sit through Thor losing his hammer, the hammer being destroyed, him gaining power as he steps into Odin's role, only for all that to be undone when some new guy takes over?

    It's not "conflict and loss". It's "Oh goodie, we get to go through THIS shit again."

    Just like with Hulk. Oh look, Banner's trying to cure himself again. Oh golly gee willikers, I wonder if it'll work THIS time. Oh look it didn't. Because it was never going to. Then we got that god awful Professor Hulk. *Shiver*.

    Because, let's be real, real, REAL honest with ourselves here. IF Para-Paul actually got this major downgrade in power, and I have faith in Zoat that he wouldn't do something that lame. But IF it actually happened....the first thing OL would do is work to undo it.

    He wouldn't go "Oh gee, I'm just a comic book character. I guess I'll have to accept the status quo as I fight from underneath as the underdog again."

    He'd go "Huh, well I'm bloody well still Agent Orange aren't I? Guess I'll have to have a chat with Best Snek and get this worked out."

    Because that's the type of person he has shown, over and over, himself to be.
     
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  25. Lone Courier 6

    Lone Courier 6 Wanderer of threads

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    Unless with the loss of his enlightenment and many of his memories, he takes the Post Civil War(1, the one where he deleted his entire mind to keep it out of Norman Osborn's hands) Back Up Tony Stark approach to seeing/hearing about what he has done, and reacts with abject horror at how he could have done some of the things he has.
     
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  26. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes, a reboot of a character back to (kinda) factory because the new author didn't want to deal with ANY of the characterization or development Tony had undergone during a universally panned and despised storyline....one that had its every consequence rebooted anyway.

    Cap's dead. No he's not.

    He's always been a Nazi. (Oh SHIT, that was a terrible idea!!!!) No he's not, cosmic cubery.

    Thor has the Odinforce, now he doesn't, now he doesn't even have his hammer, Chick-Thor is the bestest ever, ah shit! Reboot Reboot!

    All new, All different! Nu52! Ah FUCK! They aren't buying! Reboot Reboot!

    Plus, while OL isn't the same person mentally as he was when he first woke up in space (On account of all that character development people like to ignore) I can't see where he's had too many actions that he'd be "horrified" by.

    Now Grayven might.

    Finally, the character reboots that happened post Civil War were in response to a god awful story that no one asked for, no one wanted, even the authors couldn't decide on what they wanted, or just wanted to soapbox.

    Let's not forget that the Lady that lectures Captain America about being out of touch because he hasn't watched any Youtube videos or sat in the stands for a NASCAR race? Yeah, we are supposed to Agree with her.

    So the big difference is....Civil War was a shit story. With this Ring is decidedly NOT.
     
  27. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I honestly think that was the problem. The storyline about the country reacting in a stupid way to a tragedy was interesting, but editorial for some reason thought that people reading a superhero comic would cheer on the formation of a police state.

    I can see why they might have thought that at the time, but Modern Politics.
     
  28. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Except it absolutely hasn’t, things have happened, situations have changed and characters have evolved and learned

    That is the definition of the story progressing, just because OL hasn’t had to face a bloody, endless struggle to do anything and then have it all undone doesn’t mean the story isn’t progressing
    Except that’s clearly not the case here, or at the very least not the case for people who are Enlightened because at that stage they’ve become so aware of their emotions that they’re essentially a part of their respective Entity

    And even if we go with your version of things the Ophidian doesn’t need to resurrect OL, she just has to go “Hey, you’re my favourite living thing and you’ve spent the past year connected to me and viewing everything in terms of your desires so I basically have an imprint of your consciousness and memories so bam, have all that back and now we’re back to normal”
    Conflict and loss are good for stories when they make sense and don’t completely destroy it, which this would

    Not only would OL lose all of his character development and attachments but he’d also be forced into a universe that has adapted to his tactics which he now doesn’t know, it would basically be forcing a tutorial character into a late game area
    But why would he? The vast majority of things he’s done are good, even the most controversial things like Fate and the Citadelians are largely agreed to have been for the better by those involved and since all being Enlightened did was make him more aware of what he already wanted to do he’s likely not going to give a shit anyway
    Thats what I’m telling myself too, like I said I’m probably not going to read the next few updated fully until I know how this ends, because if is a comic style reset then I am done, but I don’t think it actually will be
     
  29. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Problem with that idea is that Paragon has been showing his flex for years.

    Everything said, I really don't think you get why those writers were so keen on depowering Thor. It's not because they wanted a return to the status que, it's because to most people overpowered characters are boring because there's no real struggle in their accomplishments.
     
  30. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Except for the parts where he make sure to be careful when dealing with enemies, is fighting something he doesn’t understand or his enemies have adapted to him and he has to work around whatever they’ve done
    Except that’s not true, just because your protagonist gets stronger that doesn’t suddenly remove any struggle so long as your good writer. The antagonists can get stronger as well, they can learn and adapt, the hero can be put in situations where being the strongest doesn’t mean they’ll win

    Plus that’s an example that doesn’t work here because there are still plenty of things in the setting that are dangerous to OL of he isn’t careful
     
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