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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
don't think that the appeals system on SV or SB is more than a token effort, so I'm not prepared to give them any points for it. The example you give doesn't sound like current politics to me, but I'm not getting the context here.
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The post that got me banned for a week was here.
https://forum.questionablequesting....-si-thread-fourteen.8938/page-17#post-2406680

Some had the wonderful idea that the best way handle controversial issues is not through civil discussion, but getting a bunch of people together, socially engineering them until the majority all support "the correct opinion" and giving them free reign to bully the people who have the "wrong opinions"

And this is just monstorious, and it is monstrous no matter if the "correct opinion" is something you agree with, or disagree with.
Because you are trying to make people more close minded, and intolerant, and thinking that bullying those who disagree with you is something to be proud of, a goal to aspire for.

And I vehemently pointed out the wrongness of that.

I didn't think opposing that would be a political issue. Because it's not about politics at all. It's about not cultivating something that is toxic to thought and reason.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
The post that got me banned for a week was here.
https://forum.questionablequesting....-si-thread-fourteen.8938/page-17#post-2406680

Some had the wonderful idea that the best way handle controversial issues is not through civil discussion, but getting a bunch of people together, socially engineering them until the majority all support "the correct opinion" and giving them free reign to bully the people who have the "wrong opinions"

And this is just monstorious, and it is monstrous no matter if the "correct opinion" is something you agree with, or disagree with.
Because you are trying to make people more close minded, and intolerant, and thinking that bullying those who disagree with you is something to be proud of, a goal to aspire for.

And I vehemently pointed out the wrongness of that.

I didn't think opposing that would be a political issue. Because it's not about politics at all. It's about not cultivating something that is toxic to thought and reason.
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Huh. Yeah, that was bullshit.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
I didn't think opposing that would be a political issue. Because it's not about politics at all. It's about not cultivating something that is toxic to thought and reason.
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AFAICT, the problem wasn't what you had to say, but that you had to say it right after everyone was told to just stop. What you had to say was praiseworthy, but it was really the wrong time-place to say it.
 
And now for a bit of fanart.
7grUMbJ.png
 
Bramble Thorn said:
As someone who got a week long ban for a post disagreeing with someone who thought group think shaming of anyone who disagrees with you was a swell idea, I have to disagree. Because apparently that is current politics. Nevermind that I don't think that is part of any political platform. That I think that is just an unhealthy and toxic approach to any and every issue, and it doesn't matter which side of the issue you may be rooting for.

Notice there is not actually an avenue of redress is a mod has a beef with you. There is no appeals process in the rules. There is no "How are are Mods Modding? Have they gone mad with power? Let us know at 1-800-FUCK-YOU." in the signature of the mod post that banned you. You just get it jammed in the ass, with no thought to aftercare at all.

There is a reason I am currently only reading an episode once it is complete. Fear of getting too involved in the forum involved and getting randomly buttfucked again.
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*Check*

Huh, so it's not. That's gonna be corrected but jsut so you know, you appeal by contacting our admin with your issue with a mod's ruling.
 
Mquz said:
Languages other than English exist in universe. Both Doylist and Watsonian logic are potentially true. The writer created the name, but the universe also wrote in a backstory to the language - coming from Mr. Zoat in this universe. It's true and a coincidence in this universe because Mr Zoat says it's true - and he's creating this world.

Possibly, The comics and fiction just happens to be right due to information somehow escaping from the in-universe perspective.

Paul can't say which is actually true in universe - the author's have inside information they happen to write about, or the universe is created by the author's.

Basically, either author's creating the world, or info escaping is true in Paul's original world, but he can't say which.

Edit: What Paul is talking about isnmt that the author's create the world, but that the language in-universe has roots in the Thanagarian language. It's not the ring translating something completely different into Lizarkons, to get the meaning of the name having the word lizard in it across, Lizarkons is what it actually sounds like in universe - though for all we know it could be written Lis-Archons or Liz'Ar'Kons more accurately.
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Because DC has done "exit the comic and meet your creator" storylines there is no distinction between Doylist and Watsonian reasoning in the DC multiverse.
 
Handlewithcare said:
How boy. Paul just being honest is going to royally fuck up Thanagar.
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He does remember the JLA cartoon and one of hie personal villains says they invade in the future so...

Is not like the opinion of lke four or five people matters to him more than Earth not being prepared for an alien invasion.

Maxx Crowley said:
Minus the pitch black darkness and Cthulul shit trying to eat you.
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That he can mind control unless is alien or the actual Elder Gods themselves.
 
Oooh, this is juicy. I've been hoping for more Thanagarian nonsense for a while now.
 
Given Nth Metal disrupts constructs Paul is probably going to get his ass kicked at least a little on Thanagar.
 
Vaermina said:
Because DC has done "exit the comic and meet your creator" storylines there is no distinction between Doylist and Watsonian reasoning in the DC multiverse.
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There still is if the creator (in this universe, Zoat) comes up with a Watsonian reason for something to happen, as opposed to just saying it does. In this case, Zoat provided a Watsonian reason to the people in-universe, so Watsonian logic applies. He also named them the same thing people did in older comics, so Doylist logic applies.

Crucially, Watsonian logic can still be written by an author, even if it is an open secret in universe that he exists.

The distinction is - people in-universe don't know they are created most of the time.
 
Vaermina said:
Given Nth Metal disrupts constructs Paul is probably going to get his ass kicked at least a little on Thanagar.
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If he starts a fight, probably. He still has his freeze ray though, so he can still fight civilians/ low ranking military.
 
Vaermina said:
Given Nth Metal disrupts constructs Paul is probably going to get his ass kicked at least a little on Thanagar.
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But do crumblers work on Nth metal? Also, what about the thing where you can make it explode by running a current through it like he did to take out phased targets?
And what about qua weapons? Remember OL has a weaponer on speed dial, so he can just ask how to make something that will wreck their shit.
 
Sockmonkey said:
But do crumblers work on Nth metal?
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Crumblers shouldn't be effective against Nth metal given how they were they described as working.

Also, what about the thing where you can make it explode by running a current through it like he did to take out phased targets?
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Remember Nth Metal disrupts constructs, so nothing that involves touching the material would be effective.

And what about qua weapons? Remember OL has a weaponer on speed dial, so he can just ask how to make something that will wreck their shit.
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He could also ask her to make him a suit of super orange battery power armor.

But he won't, because Paul doesn't think like that.
 
Vaermina said:
Given Nth Metal disrupts constructs Paul is probably going to get his ass kicked at least a little on Thanagar.
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The name of the episode is Wing and Dagger, which I took to be the Thanagarian equivalent of Cloak and Dagger. I'm pretty sure Lightsaber Girl and her umbramancer friend are Marvel, so by process of elimination I think the conflict in this episode will be more focused on intrigue. So, while Nth metal has a potential to be an issue, a far more likely threat is Paul not using his empathic on people that he believes to be trustworthy in a society where, at least in the DCAU, romantic conflicts are settled by assassination.
 
Wing and Dagger (part 7)
  • Threadmarks
    • 21st January
    14:32 GMT

    Lantern Dul floats in interstellar space a short distance from her current stop on the Orange Lantern Corps Goodwill Tour. From the looks we were getting as we headed into orbit I'd say that she was at least reasonably well received by the locals, who to me looked disconcertingly like a cross between crabs and lictors.

    Sometimes being able to interpret non-humanoid body language is weird.

    "Got everything you need?"

    She blinks slowly at me, the thanagarian equivalent of a puzzled frown. She's wearing… Slightly heavier armour than she wore to the conference. Not sure whether she's used the time since to put it together or if she didn't consider it necessary. Heh, but now she knows me better. One mace, two side arms, one glowing ring…

    "I mean, no personal effects? You mentioned that you weren't the only one assigned to your original mission. Among humans, we would customarily return their personal effects to their next of kin."

    "We didn't have much. I left everything with their bodies on what's left of our ship." She notices as my eyes widen. "Almost all thanagarians are materialists. None of them thought what happened to their bodies after they died was important."

    "Um. If you give me the coordinates I can pick the ship up and return it to Thanagar." I place my right hand over my heart. "My oath to Gaea that I will not access its data storage or perform detailed scans of the ship or of its contents."

    "Why? What do your people do with the remains of dead spacefarers?"

    "My people go into space on rockets. We don't have enough spacefarers to have a tradition. Water warships that sink are left alone, but that's on a living world. In.. space… Take it from someone who's died, that's.. not a good place to leave them."

    "You believe that their souls are trapped there forever."

    "I don't have enough magic researchers to task them with studying the process in detail, but based on what I know…" I nod. "It's a distinct possibility."

    She regards me sceptically for a moment, but apparently decides that there's no harm in humouring me. "I'll refer your request up my chain of command."

    I nod. "Thank you. Now, for the journey to Earth we've got a couple of options. I can teleport us-" I raise my right hand to my forehead. "-there instantly, but Hinon tells me that unless your control is excellent you could risk physical and psychological damage." I lower my right hand. "I could get around that by suppressing your mental activity or connection to the orange light, but those options have their own problems. Alternatively, I can fly us there, which will take a few hours, or create a large zeta beam emitter construct to send you there in a few seconds."

    "If your people have controllable zeta beam transportation then why do you still fly in space with chemical rockets?"

    "We'd use zeta beams for that too, but we've only recently got the power generation capacity to keep them running. And of course we can't go anywhere safely without a receiver station. As it is, it's a fast but expensive way for getting around one planet, and… Not very useful otherwise. I'd basically be firing you at an upgraded version of the zeta beam generator invented… Fifty seven years ago. It's still the only one configured for long ranged travel."

    "And it's safe?"

    I nod. "Tested it yesterday. The people studying it are quite enthusiastic about getting a live subject through."

    "Zeta beam."

    "Rightyho."

    I fly away from her to give myself space, then generate the large interstellar zeta tube. Not just the actual tube bit; even with it looking more like Dr Erdel's original version than the more streamlined modern version that part still isn't particularly large. I've also got the exotic radiation generating equipment, the generator and the capacitors. And a cartoony-looking control panel with one of those u-shape levers you can wrap your fist around, because why not?

    I wrap my right fist around it. "Ready?"

    "Yes."

    I pull the lever down. The interior of the construct glows for a moment, then Lantern Dul is gone.

    One. Two. Three…

    "Illustres to Lantern Dul."

    "I've arrived. I'm heading to Officer Hol's place of residence."

    "Good show. I'll meet you in orbit."

    I dismiss my construct, focus on Mr Cantrell and raise my right hand to my forehead once again.

    21st January
    07:34 GMT -7

    I appear a mile or so above his house, then move my right hand to my right ear.

    "Call Richard Grayson."

    "Compliance."

    A few seconds of dial tone…

    "Hey."

    Not 'hey, Oh El'. Which means that he's not 'Robin' at the moment.

    "How is she?"

    "Not… Great." He breathes out slowly. "And not just because of you. She's having nightmares about what happened to the little people in Switzerland."

    "Yes, I'm not surprised. I'd have tried saying something, but I was more worried about her staff. And I didn't want to sound too sympathetic in case I inadvertently gave the impression that my rejection wasn't entirely earnest."

    "Oh, you don't need to worry about that. She's pretty convinced."

    "You've… Had contact with people who've done.. things under the influence, haven't you?"

    "Yeah. Nothing.. quite like this. I'll.. keep visiting her."

    "Has she-? She could talk to her friends about it. Her.. normal friends. Her identity isn't a secret-."

    "This isn't really something most people have a whole lot of contact with. I'm not sure if they'd actually help or… If they'd get scared off."

    I nod sombrely. "Any ideas?"

    "I do actually know a good trauma counsellor. I'm going to talk to Zatara about arranging a meeting."

    I nod. "Switzerland was quite a bit… More than she is used to. That might well be for the best. Though… If they ask why she started using the Star Sapphire in the first place-."

    "Then she'll just have to tell them."

    "I suppose she will. Thank you for talking to her."

    "Hey, what are friends for?"

    I hang up and lower my hand. Oh, hang on. I hold my left hand out in front of me. Ring, call Hinon.

    Compliance.

    Her face appears, floating over my ring.

    "I'm heading to Thanagar. Do you want me to get you anything?"

    "No." She doesn't bother actually looking at me. "I should be finished with my survey by the time you get back. We can talk about it then."

    "Alright. See you when I see you."

    She looks up, frowning. "That's a tautol-."

    I hang up, and fly down towards the Halls' garden.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    Lantern Dul float in interstellar space a short distance...
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    Lantern Dul floats in interstellar space a short distance...

    From the looks we were getting as we headed into orbit I'd say that she was at least reasonably well received by the locals, who to me looked disconcertingly like a cross between crabs and lictors.
    Click to expand...
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    ...That's quite the image...

    "Why? What do your people do with the remains of dead space farers?"
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    The space between the words of 'space farer' reads oddly. Maybe make it one word (spacefarer, after seafarer) in each case?

    "If your people have controllable zeta beam transportation then why do you still fly in space with chemical rockets?"
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    Human bullshit. You'll get used to it.

    ...original version that the more streamlined modern version...
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    ...original version than the more streamlined modern version...

    And a cartoony-looking control panel with one of those u-shape levers you can wrap your fist around, because why not?
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    Of course. It's the style of the thing, after all.

    I wrap my fight fist around it. "Ready?"
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    I wrap my right fist around it. "Ready?"

    She's having nightmares about what happened to the little people in Switzerland."
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    PTSD and a broken heart. Hoo-boy, she's gonna need all the hugs...
    "I do actually know a good trauma counsellor. I'm going to talk to Zatara about arranging a meeting."
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    Holy crap, Common Sense? In a Superhero? Mark the calendar! :D
     
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    Chojin Patriarch said:
    "I do actually know a good trauma counsellor. I'm going to talk to Zatara about arranging a meeting."
    Holy crap, Common Sense? In a Superhero? Mark the calendar! :D
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    Batman and Robin are among the few comic-book (or cartoon, in this case) superheroes that I'd expect to know good trauma counselors, even if I doubt they use them, themselves.
     
    Prince Charon said:
    Batman and Robin are among the few comic-book (or cartoon, in this case) superheroes that I'd expect to know good trauma counselors, even if I doubt they use them, themselves.
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    Honestly they all should. I mean, I don't expect that here due to the deconstructive nature, but just in general.
     
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