Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Technically, yes, but it's a very small one. I don't know the character that well, and from what I remember that would be out of character.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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- self insert young justice
Dakkan Sall
Random Encounter
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While amusing in thought, Destruction doesn't care for destruction anymore, and 'quit'. He figures that it gets along without him needing to oversee things (though it never comes up in Sandman what the functional difference would be, unlike when Dream was trapped), so he just goes about wandering and being a poor... in skill, that is... artist.
Sockmonkey
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Maybe he should meet Kalmin.
nick012000
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I'm gonna guess that it's Hermes. This sort of prank seems to be within his trickster bailiwick, he's a god of travel and roads fitting the idea of associating himself with cars, and the Flashes model their superhero identities after his image giving him a reason to car about America. If this happened in Central City (home of the Flashes), then I'd say it almost certain is him.
Hell's Razer
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...that pun was bad and you should feel bad. Have a like.
nick012000
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It was a typo, since I meant to write "care", but okay.
Darko
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I'm not so sure about that.
Destruction kinda wanted to move away from destroying things, while Kalmin is all about destroying things.
Ngamer11
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I understand that Destruction doesn't want to destroy anymore. But maybe someone can tap into the power of Destruction, like how Paul is getting Atlanteans to study the Dream.
Cuchulin
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That happen in the book first.
As I remember it wasn't so much that he didn't want to do it any more as he didn't see the point of him doing it anymore because of how good humans had gotten at it.
Rafin
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Huh. I really thought that Vulcan would be running his own shop, in which he could have apprentices if he wanted to. How come he chooses to be ab employee instead?
British people that speak decent Italian are relatively rare, but they really aren't enough of an oddity to make anyone suspicious enough to suspect supernatural/alien shenanigans. Brits have holiday houses all over the mediterranean and their children are likely to kearn the local language for life if they used to come and mingle with local children since early childhood.
Is it attached to Rrab with some kind of elastic filament?
Mr Zoat
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He wants to work with machines, not accountants. And he'd rather not come to wider attention.
Yes.
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Sockmonkey
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But Kalmin has mastered the art of being creative about destroying, so he could show Destruction how to reconcile his nature as a destructive force with his desire to create. Plus, Destruction would be a much better deity for Qwardians to follow than the Anti-Monitor.
Common Sense (part 6)
Mr Zoat
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18th September 2010
17:33 GMT -5
"…concern that it was even practical to make the attempt."
Batman closes the holographic windows showing scenes from the attempted mass break out from Belle Reve, leaving us with the diagram of the site.
"The exercise for today will involve you studying the security arrangements for Belle Reve Penitentiary and suggesting improvements. These will be reviewed by the Justice League, and the best will be forwarded to the Department of Justice."
Wallace -whose attention had been wavering when he realised that there wasn't a mission or a physical exercise planned- suddenly comes alert again and grins at Richard. Richard smirks back, already tapping the buttons on his arm computer which will call up the pertinent data.
"If you require more information than is in the database, you may submit the requests yourself. Dismissed." Batman deactivates the holoscreen and heads for the zeta tube.
Richard immediately connects his computer to the cave's holographic systems, generating a three dimensional model of the prison grounds as the rest of us form an arc to look at it.
Kon shrugs. "I dunno. It all looks pretty solid to me."
"Can't be that secure." Richard's eyes dart mischievously towards him. "Batman stuck you in."
Artemis's eyes narrow. "Do people just not do fingerprints any more? Or blood tests? You're both aliens; they should have known that you weren't the Terrors."
I raise my eyebrows. "Did Batman arrange things through official channels?"
Richard shakes his head. "Couldn't take the risk of tipping someone off. Had to make the switch on-site."
Artemis's mouth falls open slightly. "Seriously? So no one checked who-" She turns to Kon and M'gann. "-the two of you were between you getting arrested and being taken to Belle Reve?"
"Well…" M'gann looks uncomfortable as she shakes her head. "No. I… Guess they just trust the Justice League to give them the.. right.. people..?"
I nod. "I am reminded of the Parable of the Red Hood."
Wallace blinks, then rolls his eyes. "You wanna explain that, Oh El?"
Richard tries to work it out first.
"The Joker started out calling himself the Red Hood. But he always goes to Arkham. Can't see a parable there."
"The Joker started out as a failed comedian a pre-existing gang hired to be the fall guy. They stuck a red helmet on his head and called him 'boss' when the police were listening. He'd never fired a gun before that evening, and he wasn't even the first person they'd hired to act in that capacity."
"tchk-Hah!" Artemis gasp-laughs in disbelief. "Seriously? That's how the Joker started out?"
Richard tilts his head to the left. "So his first night out was the Ace Chemical Processing Plant theft?" I nod, and he grimaces. "I guess that explains why he thinks everything is a joke. But I'm still not seeing the Parable."
"The police assumed that the one person in the mask was the main threat. The leader. They let their schema run without checking anything. The Justice League are honest, so there's no need to check that the people they hand over are who they say they are. Even in a world of shapeshifters, telepaths, mind altering magic and-" I raise my eyebrows at Kon. "-hair dye."
Kaldur nods. "In Atlantis, the identities of prisoners would be confirmed with magic at each stage of their transfer. I do not think that the American prison system has enough magicians for that to be practical."
Wallace looks thoughtful for a moment. "No, but there are some super-fast blood test machines that could check blood groups. And fingerprint and iris recognition scanners. Belle Reve could use those to check prisoners on the way in."
That makes sense. "How expensive are those?"
Richard brings up a new screen. "Not that expensive, actually. The fastest DNA analyser that exists can do a work-up in about four hours, but it's the size of a small building and costs…" He blinks. "They could probably build another prison. But the rest is easily under their budget."
Kaldur nods. "And magic?"
Artemis shrugs. "Where are they gunna find that many wizards?"
I raise my eyebrows. "What is the dollar to Atlantean drachma exchange rate?"
Kaldur bows his head slightly. "There is not enough trade between the two countries for a rate of exchange to have been established. But if we were to use the value of the metal, a single drachma is approximately four grams of silver."
I nod. "About three dollars. Would Atlantis be willing to allow America to hire Atlantean wizards, assuming the Department of Justice could match their salaries?"
"I cannot think of a reason why my king would have an objection in principle, though such an agreement would have to be negotiated at the highest levels."
"Okay." Richard nods. "Better prisoner IDs. But that doesn't help with corrupt members of staff, power suppressors not working or just the fact that most of the prisoners are really dangerous."
"Maybe… It just… Can't be fixed."
Richard smiles. "I'll let Batman know. Good job, team!"
"No, no, I mean… We can't make a prison completely secure. People can be corrupted or threatened. Computers can be hacked. Walls can be blasted down. Heck, if Mister J'onzz hadn't scanned Hugo Strange's mind he might have ended up as Warden, and that would have been a disaster. Short of creating a religious cult of prison guards who can't conceive of the idea of not doing their jobs with fanatical devotion, there's no decision-making body that can't be… Worked around."
Kaldur looks at me. "Then what do you suggest?"
"I read a story a while ago, where a space-faring race had to deal with fanatically violent prisoners of war. The prison camp they built consisted of a series of air tight cells built on an airless planet. There was an automated system for removing waste and bringing them food, and they could communicate via the computer network. But they were never face to face with other prisoners or guards. They couldn't escape because there was nowhere to escape to. If they broke out of their cell they would die of vacuum exposure within a minute or two. The only way to leave was for a space craft to dock with their cell."
Wallace frowns. "You wanna move the prisoners off Earth?"
"Their aim was to break through the concrete and steel of Belle Reve, then run for it in Louisiana. They worked around all of the security, which is…" I gesture at the screen. "Actually pretty good, for the most part. It wouldn't be all that expensive to build a system to send prisoners to… The surface of Mars? Or T-"
M'gann frowns. "Hey!"
"-itan by zeta tube. What, Martians don't use the surface of Mars."
"That doesn't mean we want all of Earth's most dangerous prisoners sent to us!"
"Alright. The Moon or Titan."
"What about-" Kon shrugs. "-the gravity?"
"What about it? They would probably get some muscle wastage, but honestly? By the time people are getting sent to Belle Reve-. Hang on." I call up the reoffending figures for people sent to Belle Reve. Yeah. "By the time people get sent to Belle Reve, they've pretty much missed the window for rehabilitating them. I don't see how them coming back weaker is a bad thing."
"I…" Richard frowns thoughtfully. "Don't know. Zeta tubes draw a lot of power. And I don't think the DoJ is allowed to ship prisoners outside of the US. But they could use zeta tubes to move prisoners and guards around. With teleportation there's no need for individual cells to be connected to… Anything, really."
Kaldur nods. "I believe this warrants further consideration."
17:33 GMT -5
"…concern that it was even practical to make the attempt."
Batman closes the holographic windows showing scenes from the attempted mass break out from Belle Reve, leaving us with the diagram of the site.
"The exercise for today will involve you studying the security arrangements for Belle Reve Penitentiary and suggesting improvements. These will be reviewed by the Justice League, and the best will be forwarded to the Department of Justice."
Wallace -whose attention had been wavering when he realised that there wasn't a mission or a physical exercise planned- suddenly comes alert again and grins at Richard. Richard smirks back, already tapping the buttons on his arm computer which will call up the pertinent data.
"If you require more information than is in the database, you may submit the requests yourself. Dismissed." Batman deactivates the holoscreen and heads for the zeta tube.
Richard immediately connects his computer to the cave's holographic systems, generating a three dimensional model of the prison grounds as the rest of us form an arc to look at it.
Kon shrugs. "I dunno. It all looks pretty solid to me."
"Can't be that secure." Richard's eyes dart mischievously towards him. "Batman stuck you in."
Artemis's eyes narrow. "Do people just not do fingerprints any more? Or blood tests? You're both aliens; they should have known that you weren't the Terrors."
I raise my eyebrows. "Did Batman arrange things through official channels?"
Richard shakes his head. "Couldn't take the risk of tipping someone off. Had to make the switch on-site."
Artemis's mouth falls open slightly. "Seriously? So no one checked who-" She turns to Kon and M'gann. "-the two of you were between you getting arrested and being taken to Belle Reve?"
"Well…" M'gann looks uncomfortable as she shakes her head. "No. I… Guess they just trust the Justice League to give them the.. right.. people..?"
I nod. "I am reminded of the Parable of the Red Hood."
Wallace blinks, then rolls his eyes. "You wanna explain that, Oh El?"
Richard tries to work it out first.
"The Joker started out calling himself the Red Hood. But he always goes to Arkham. Can't see a parable there."
"The Joker started out as a failed comedian a pre-existing gang hired to be the fall guy. They stuck a red helmet on his head and called him 'boss' when the police were listening. He'd never fired a gun before that evening, and he wasn't even the first person they'd hired to act in that capacity."
"tchk-Hah!" Artemis gasp-laughs in disbelief. "Seriously? That's how the Joker started out?"
Richard tilts his head to the left. "So his first night out was the Ace Chemical Processing Plant theft?" I nod, and he grimaces. "I guess that explains why he thinks everything is a joke. But I'm still not seeing the Parable."
"The police assumed that the one person in the mask was the main threat. The leader. They let their schema run without checking anything. The Justice League are honest, so there's no need to check that the people they hand over are who they say they are. Even in a world of shapeshifters, telepaths, mind altering magic and-" I raise my eyebrows at Kon. "-hair dye."
Kaldur nods. "In Atlantis, the identities of prisoners would be confirmed with magic at each stage of their transfer. I do not think that the American prison system has enough magicians for that to be practical."
Wallace looks thoughtful for a moment. "No, but there are some super-fast blood test machines that could check blood groups. And fingerprint and iris recognition scanners. Belle Reve could use those to check prisoners on the way in."
That makes sense. "How expensive are those?"
Richard brings up a new screen. "Not that expensive, actually. The fastest DNA analyser that exists can do a work-up in about four hours, but it's the size of a small building and costs…" He blinks. "They could probably build another prison. But the rest is easily under their budget."
Kaldur nods. "And magic?"
Artemis shrugs. "Where are they gunna find that many wizards?"
I raise my eyebrows. "What is the dollar to Atlantean drachma exchange rate?"
Kaldur bows his head slightly. "There is not enough trade between the two countries for a rate of exchange to have been established. But if we were to use the value of the metal, a single drachma is approximately four grams of silver."
I nod. "About three dollars. Would Atlantis be willing to allow America to hire Atlantean wizards, assuming the Department of Justice could match their salaries?"
"I cannot think of a reason why my king would have an objection in principle, though such an agreement would have to be negotiated at the highest levels."
"Okay." Richard nods. "Better prisoner IDs. But that doesn't help with corrupt members of staff, power suppressors not working or just the fact that most of the prisoners are really dangerous."
"Maybe… It just… Can't be fixed."
Richard smiles. "I'll let Batman know. Good job, team!"
"No, no, I mean… We can't make a prison completely secure. People can be corrupted or threatened. Computers can be hacked. Walls can be blasted down. Heck, if Mister J'onzz hadn't scanned Hugo Strange's mind he might have ended up as Warden, and that would have been a disaster. Short of creating a religious cult of prison guards who can't conceive of the idea of not doing their jobs with fanatical devotion, there's no decision-making body that can't be… Worked around."
Kaldur looks at me. "Then what do you suggest?"
"I read a story a while ago, where a space-faring race had to deal with fanatically violent prisoners of war. The prison camp they built consisted of a series of air tight cells built on an airless planet. There was an automated system for removing waste and bringing them food, and they could communicate via the computer network. But they were never face to face with other prisoners or guards. They couldn't escape because there was nowhere to escape to. If they broke out of their cell they would die of vacuum exposure within a minute or two. The only way to leave was for a space craft to dock with their cell."
Wallace frowns. "You wanna move the prisoners off Earth?"
"Their aim was to break through the concrete and steel of Belle Reve, then run for it in Louisiana. They worked around all of the security, which is…" I gesture at the screen. "Actually pretty good, for the most part. It wouldn't be all that expensive to build a system to send prisoners to… The surface of Mars? Or T-"
M'gann frowns. "Hey!"
"-itan by zeta tube. What, Martians don't use the surface of Mars."
"That doesn't mean we want all of Earth's most dangerous prisoners sent to us!"
"Alright. The Moon or Titan."
"What about-" Kon shrugs. "-the gravity?"
"What about it? They would probably get some muscle wastage, but honestly? By the time people are getting sent to Belle Reve-. Hang on." I call up the reoffending figures for people sent to Belle Reve. Yeah. "By the time people get sent to Belle Reve, they've pretty much missed the window for rehabilitating them. I don't see how them coming back weaker is a bad thing."
"I…" Richard frowns thoughtfully. "Don't know. Zeta tubes draw a lot of power. And I don't think the DoJ is allowed to ship prisoners outside of the US. But they could use zeta tubes to move prisoners and guards around. With teleportation there's no need for individual cells to be connected to… Anything, really."
Kaldur nods. "I believe this warrants further consideration."
Last edited:
Darko
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An excellent observation Artemis.
Well apparently in this case.
In others, it's much less clear.
'built'
I have never been so happy to see an alternate view.
Welcome back Common Sense Paul.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Idkusername
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Wow. Going full on Civil War, huh.
l---erddad---l
Wait, google can see this?
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I mean, tbf it seems pretty similar similar, just with less physics-breaking technobabble and more good ol' fashioned metaphorical brute force.
hance1986
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Chojin Patriarch
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Ah... Oh, this is going to be interesting. What's CS!OL going to have to say here, I wonder? And how much hilarity can be had by derailing just about every prison-related trope in the process?
Kind of an odd idea, but given the results CS!OL has had... They may get more than they expected out of it.
Well, then. What to do, what to do...
No, Batman took the Terror Twins in. It's not Belle Reve's fault they didn't check...
Also, isn't Belle Reve a long-term confinement facility? Why would Batman take them there if he'd just captured them? Was it just because of their physical strength? And well spotted, Artemis. Apparently Common Sense isn't just a superpower, it's a contagious one!
Hell, for that matter, did they bother to check Batman was who he said he was? Aren't there super-powered copycats and infiltrators running around? Seriously, it's like 'put on a fancy mask' and people just switch off their common sense.
Heh. The Bat-family doesn't know Joker's origin, do they? Beyond...
...That. I suppose that one comic story where some amateur college-level criminologists work out the Red Hood thing after an on-campus robbery happened here.
In one version of the story. As the Joker himself put it: Multiple Choices are always more fun!
Like I said: Dress up as a bat, people just lose all their common sense and suspicion.
But even those can be faked. Especially by a Martian. Or Magic. Also: Money. Belle Reve does not have unlimited budget.
I suspect they're thinking too low-tech. Kryptonian tech. Martian-trained telepathy. Magic. Surely CS!OL has been poking the respective parties?
o/` Under the sea, under the sea... o/`
Doesn't sound like a lot, but that's a decent amount of money, I understand?
Well, Orin does have a diplomatic department, doesn't he?
Oh, boy. There's a loaded statement..."Okay." Richard nods. "Better prisoner IDs. But that doesn't help with corrupt members of staff, power suppressors not working or just the fact that most of the prisoners are really dangerous."
"Maybe… It just… Can't be fixed."
That was lucky. CS!OL's nudging him to be more proactive telepathically? Also: Cults like that never turn out well. Consider the Judges of Mega-City One. They seem to turn up a few extremists now and then. Though they do deal with hell.
And the mere suggestion would probably be more than a little worrying to some of the League, no matter how sensible it is. Also: Earth is not advanced enough to develop and maintain that without off-world assistance.
Mars, CS!OL? Just one problem there...
...True. But it's not like they want neighbours like that. Can you imagine the mental contamination it would produce?
One big problem: Civil Rights groups would be up in arms. Probably something like 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment!' ...Assuming they told anyone. As for location: Maybe set up a place somewhere remote, with isolation proving the main deterrent to escape... Why not the far north border of Alaska or something?
Also: Why not use Kryptonian artificial gravity tech? Poke Superman until he actually starts using that museum he calls a fortress for something.
The Zeta-Tube thing might work. Just a matter of getting power. Like say, a certain cosmic energy collector system? I would be amazed if CS!OL hasn't been raiding supervillain and superheroic tech for mass-producable ideas...
Well, then. I mean, sometimes, you get good ideas from Common Sense, sometimes ones that smack of Justice Lords/Marvel Illuminati level stuff. They can't all be winners? Still, they are right, Belle Reve is not built for what it's being used for. Sooner or later, they will have to make something better. The only question then becomes 'how soon?'
Diraniola
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The Birdcage only worked because it was fun by a morally heroic AI with most of her capabilities locked down. The only warden literally couldn't act outside official channels.
Handlewithcare
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I would also suggest VR prison, especially for rehabilitation attempts, but it's probably diffcult to connect so many people with altered brain chemistry and who knows what someone could do if it were hacked.
Darko
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Probably a lot.
The only virus that should be contagious.
And that comic with multiple versions didn't help.
Or the bottom of the ocean, far away from any Atlantean territory.
At least he's not advocating for lobotomizing prisoners and having heroes exiled.
Someguy Somewhere
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I'm reminded of the prison Grrlpower did up for a teleporter.
Her cell was an air tight pressurized gas mixture, so if she 'ported out, anywhere she'd likely have gone would be much lower pressure, and cause a stroke from a very bad case of the bends and die on the spot. Her power was teleporting gate ways, but even if she opened a small one they'd detect the pressure change before she could even things out, and she of course doesn't have a comparative barometer or blood O2 sensor to tell when it's safe to leave.
A bit expensive, but doable with current day tech.
Her cell was an air tight pressurized gas mixture, so if she 'ported out, anywhere she'd likely have gone would be much lower pressure, and cause a stroke from a very bad case of the bends and die on the spot. Her power was teleporting gate ways, but even if she opened a small one they'd detect the pressure change before she could even things out, and she of course doesn't have a comparative barometer or blood O2 sensor to tell when it's safe to leave.
A bit expensive, but doable with current day tech.
Darko
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The same thing happened in the Avengers EMH cartoon.
Pym used his tech to shrink people and placed them in a miniature prison staffed by Ultron robots.
Senevri
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Yeah... Like Cheshire, or the "Terror twins". Or any of the other sv:s rehabilitated in the other timeline.
Also, the prisoners still have rights. Visitors, lawyers, etc. Not to mention prison workers themselves. As for the solution the SI read about
.. You cannot, essentially, throw everyone in isolation permanently. Would probably count as torture.
The gravity isn't much of an issue. Even a low gravity will keep the worst side effects at bay, and artificial gravity is probably a thing.
moralrelativity
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schema -> scheme
Ngamer11
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This version of Paul doesn't seem to utilize the ability to see what people want, which could help in finding out what criminals could be offered to do less villainous things. He also never trained with Guy, whose past as a councilor helped inspire Paul to rehabilitate villains so that they can be productive members of society.