With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

snuck

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Is that not something that Americans say?

...That. I suppose that one comic story where some amateur college-level criminologists work out the Red Hood thing after an on-campus robbery happened here.

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I'm not familiar with that one.

Yeah... Like Cheshire, or the "Terror twins". Or any of the other sv:s rehabilitated in the other timeline.

Also, the prisoners still have rights. Visitors, lawyers, etc. Not to mention prison workers themselves. As for the solution the SI read about
.. You cannot, essentially, throw everyone in isolation permanently. Would probably count as torture.

The gravity isn't much of an issue. Even a low gravity will keep the worst side effects at bay, and artificial gravity is probably a thing.

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Can't talk about modern politics, but the statistics are on Common Sense's side here. Yes, a highly motivated orange-light-using empath could rehabilitate a few more people, but that's a superlative effort not covered by common sense.

schema -> scheme

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No.

 

[Sordid Snake]

That's not what killed them. What killed them is the subsequent water damage.

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What I'd like to know is who put Michael Palin in charge of siting the data center.

 

[PrinceJonathan]

Phantom Zone 'em!!

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Better idea. Shrink the prison cells down and shove them into the the most impenetrable hole on Earth, Amanda Waller's asshole.

The Birdcage only worked because it was fun

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The Birdcage was nothing but ball pits and tube slides as far as the eye could see, and every day was pizza day in the cafeteria.

 

[Joelseph14]

Dude you gotta tag which reality you've switched to at the beginning, while it can be easy to guess from the colours or situations it can still take a bit of confusion before we figure out who's POV we're watching

 

[Darko]

Dude you gotta tag which reality you've switched to at the beginning, while it can be easy to guess from the colours or situations it can still take a bit of confusion before we figure out who's POV we're watching

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You can usually see when it's going to be an alternate universe in the spoiler box on the first page.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Dude you gotta tag which reality you've switched to at the beginning, while it can be easy to guess from the colours or situations it can still take a bit of confusion before we figure out who's POV we're watching

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You mean like having a short description at the top of the post explaining what it's a part of? Like 'Common Sense', perhaps?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I'm not familiar with that one.

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Detective Comics Vol 1, #168. First appearance of the Red Hood, in fact. Though I did misremember slightly: They were student criminologists, not amateurs.
To sum up: Batman and Robin are teaching a special class at Gotham University. Joker hears about it, decides to stage some Red Hood robberies, and eventually gets caught by the greens-keeper, who uses the costume (not knowing what it can do.) The case gets solved, Joker revealed to have been the original Red Hood (and a former lab worker at Ace, so bonus alternate origin.)
I suppose something similar happened on Earth-16...

 

[Vaermina]

"The Joker started out calling himself the Red Hood. But he always goes to Arkham. Can't see a parable there."

"The Joker started out as a failed comedian a pre-existing gang hired to be the fall guy. They stuck a red helmet on his head and called him 'boss' when the police were listening. He'd never fired a gun before that evening, and he wasn't even the first person they'd hired to act in that capacity."

"tchk-Hah!" Artemis gasp-laughs in disbelief. "Seriously? That's how the Joker started out?"

Richard tilts his head to the left. "So his first night out was the Ace Chemical Processing Plant theft?" I nod, and he grimaces. "I guess that explains why he thinks everything is a joke. But I'm still not seeing the Parable."

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It doesn't seem very common sensey to assume that is actually how it happened on this Earth when Joker is the only one who actually knows for sure.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Or the bottom of the ocean, far away from any Atlantean territory.

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This right here. Though sticking it underwater means habitability has a lethal failure mode.
I'd use Antarctica. Pick a spot at least a thousand miles from any outpost and supply it by zeta tube.
If the worst happens, you're far enough away from anything that you can get away with nuking the place as a last resort without worrying about collateral.

 

[SirKaid]

If the pitch for your prison includes at any point the phrase "and then we ignore their human rights" it is a bad idea and should be immediately scrapped.

 

[moralrelativity]

No.

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Yes, you're right. That's a very good use of the word.

 

[Mr Zoat]

If the pitch for your prison includes at any point the phrase "and then we ignore their human rights" it is a bad idea and should be immediately scrapped.

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No modern politics.

 

[DrThoth]

Prisoner rights seems like a sufficiently old topic to not count as modern, if we stick to examples/situations from 20 years past. Though I know the spirit behind that rule is to avoid flame wars or something, so I'll leave it at that.

You know you're in a comic-book setting when 'space prison' is the idea suggested in the Common Sense storyline.
Actually this makes me wonder about when Ambush Bug encounters Common Sense Paul, which I believe should still happen at some point in his timeline. Paragon's solution was fun and creative, so I wonder if there's a common sense way to deal with him.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Using Zeta Tubes runs into the "hack the computers to escape" issue. Subverting the tubes would allow instant escape unless I'm missing something.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Using Zeta Tubes runs into the "hack the computers to escape" issue. Subverting the tubes would allow instant escape unless I'm missing something.

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Instant escape to another zeta tube on the same network, OR to a random point somewhere in the Sol system. You can also build one with no control systems, meaning that the person at the far end would have to build one from scratch.

 

[Radix]

I mean it isnt as exotic as Antarctica, but just move the prison to the American Southwest. It is sparsely populated, and not exactly ideal for survival. Where will they run to?

Of course that can be compensated with teleporters or something. But at some point there is only so much you can do against metahumans.

 

[Mr Zoat]

The Moon or Titan.

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the American Southwest.

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Dang!

 

[Impartial Panic]

Well This New Prison layout is kinda reminding me of the Prison from G.I. Joe Retaliation.

 

[Rafin]

He wants to work with machines, not accountants. And he'd rather not come to wider attention.

Yes.

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I don't know how it is in Britain or the US and I can't even be sure how it is in Italy, but from what I gathered from Italians and comparing with my experience in Greece, it should be much easier to have some lone and non-exclusive accountant dude that you call or visit a couple of times a month at most, or even just have a non-legal little workshop like the one near where I live, than it is to be part of a mechanics shop large enough to hire and insure employees without having to suffer any undue scrutiny. I guess Seth could be working completely black, but then why not run an undeclared shop in some rural area or back alley where he can have all hos own tools and methods?

 

[Rafin]

"By the time people get sent to Belle Reve, they've pretty much missed the window for rehabilitating them.

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This is funny to me because of the large number of Belle Reeve inmates that Paragon!OL has actually rehabilitated, something that was only possible because their visitation rights weren't completely slashed.

Actually yeah. How is this plan of his dealing with the fact that many of the inmates here still deserve basic human rights, including the right not to live out the rest of their days in complete isolation.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I don't know how it is in Britain or the US and I can't even be sure how it is in Italy, but from what I gathered from Italians and comparing with my experience in Greece, it should be much easier to have some lone and non-exclusive accountant dude that you call or visit a couple of times a month at most, or even just have a non-legal little workshop like the one near where I live, than it is to be part of a mechanics shop large enough to hire and insure employees without having to suffer any undue scrutiny. I guess Seth could be working completely black, but then why not run an undeclared shop in some rural area or back alley where he can have all hos own tools and methods?

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It's not just the official accounts, it's running a business that he doesn't want to do. Running one that's flat out illegal risks coming to official attention in a way he doesn't want to.

Actually yeah. How is this plan of his dealing with the fact that many of the inmates here still deserve basic human rights, including the right not to live out the rest of their days in complete isolation.

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He doesn't have one. He task is to try to increase security. And in the United States of America it is perfectly constitutional to enslave a person if it is in punishment for a criminal offence.

 

[w34v3r]

Part of the problem is that they're trying to build a super prison in a world without a coherent power source.

Given how many different ways exist for people to have and use powers in most DC earths, trying to keep all the villains at the same facility is a stupid plan no matter what you do because they'll inevitably create a situation where the protocols for one prisoner open a gap for another.

One size does not fit all and it never will.

 

[Stsword]

One size does not fit all and it never will.

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Belle Reve has inhibitor collars that work on supercriminals from Abra (nanotech) to Black Adam (divine magic) to Ultra-Humanite (gorilla physiology).

My theory is that they work by disrupting the nerve signals that activate the person's abilities, especially since they can be programmed to let the subject use chosen abilities.

Although you are right about not being one size fits all, they have to be programmed correctly for the target before being put on.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Abra's implants were turned off via power ring before he was handed over, and even WITH that, Abra was able to do some rather impressive tricks before he managed to work his way into OL's good graces long enough to have them turned back on to any degree. I don't think he had an effective collar on at all.

 

[Stsword]

Abra's implants were turned off via power ring before he was handed over, and even WITH that, Abra was able to do some rather impressive tricks before he managed to work his way into OL's good graces long enough to have them turned back on to any degree. I don't think he had an effective collar on at all.

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Abra was one of the prisoners who participated in Icicle Sr's breakout attempt and was prevented from escaping by Icicle Jr.

So A) If his collar didn't work than the Light went through a lot of unnecessary shit, because Abra would have been able to make prisoners disappear whenever he wanted.

B) if his collar wasn't working, then Icicle Jr shouldn't have been able to prevent him from excaping by freezing him.

So that would be one of the handful of times that Zoat did something that can't be reconciled with the facts of Earth-16.

 

[Cuchulin]

Better idea. Shrink the prison cells down and shove them into the the most impenetrable hole on Earth, Amanda Waller's asshole.

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Just be careful as not to shrink them to much, Marvel tried that and it didn't work very well partly because they didn't shut off the villains powers as well

I mean it isn't as exotic as Antarctica, but just move the prison to the American Southwest. It is sparsely populated, and not exactly ideal for survival. Where will they run to?.

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Better off putting it under sea or in international waters, it'd be harder to get any where and it's closer to the US power centers

 

[megrisvernin]

Considering the issue of cardboard prisons in comics, with Arkham Asylum coming to mind, the equivalent to an a hostile prison as OL is suggesting could make context in universe. Obviously this is probably as he said the sort that that are far past rehabilitation. I think it can make extra sense since supervillains really can, on an individual basis can prove dangerous to entire cities or at the upper scale be global threats and so the whole "protecting the populace from the prisoners" aspect of prisons really come into its own.

Short of that for planetary threat levels people directly responsible for the deaths of X amount, I figure something like 10000 people might be a good number as there's basically no way any conventional serial killer can manage it, with a standard trial, and an expedited execution clause. There's all sorts of problems of getting a kill order that you just play up as someone as threat, think General Thunderbolt and the hulk and get it authorized, so thinking the x death threshold of people they've *actually* killed.

 

[Mr Zoat]

24th January 2006
08:23 GMT -5

Zamaron is busier than I was expecting. Towers in the styles of a dozen species cover the planet, interspersed at apparently random intervals with cultivated areas of greenery. I can even see what appears to be a vertical farm in skyscraper form, a hollow column of greenery covered in flowers and fruit.

The Zamarons themselves are easy enough to spot. The ones acting as our escort all look like human women in hoplite armour, their hair done up in curls. But I've caught sight of others dressed the same way but wearing faces of other species. They're still all women and all humanoid, but I've seen blue, purple, orange and yellow skin, two eyes, four and six, conventionally attractive and unconventionally… Unconventional.

I assume. I don't know all of these species.

There are plenty of aliens, too, male and female and children. Though none are in the air as the Zamarons appear to all be, and there's a certain… Distance between the two groups even when they're close together. I haven't seen any non-humanoids yet, but we've only flown over a relatively small part of one urban area. I also haven't seen any male Zamarons, Guardians, Controllers, or any other Maltusians.

Komand'r doesn't look impressed.

"What's so great about this place?"

"It's not quite what I was expecting. But-."

"What were you expecting?"

"More violet crystal. And fewer men."

One of the Zamarons looks around, her artfully styled left eyebrow arched.

"The crystals are for the direction and storage of energy. Why would we make buildings with them?"

"Why do the Guardians make all their buildings look like giant lanterns?"

She rolls her eyes.

"A truly mortifying lack of imagination. Why do you think we dumped them?"

Blackfire wrinkles her nose. "Aren't Guardians, like, three-" She makes a 'you must be this high' gesture with her right hand. "-feet tall? And don't they all look like babies?"

The Zamaron huffs. "Those characteristics didn't help." Then she smiles. "Now we attract paramours from across the universe! Most of whom have feelings they don't mind talking about, a reasonable knowledge of armour couture and an acceptance that we're more important than their stupid Lantern Corps!"

Ah.

"Bad break up?"

"I'm perfectly fine! Why does EVERYONE say I'm not?!"

I.. look awkwardly at one of the other Zamarons, who subtly shakes her head and makes a 'stop' gesture. I nod, and float away from Unexploded Zamaron and towards head-shaking Zamaron.

"I wanted to talk to someone about holding our wedding here. Is that really something I need to speak to your current Queen about?"

"Weddings are a celebration of love, one of the two most important things in Zamaron society."

Komand'r frowns in a 'I'm nearly interested' sort of way.

"Oh? What's the other one?"

"Punching people in the face."

"Huh?"

"I'm one point two billion years old. Have you got any idea how many cities I've seen? Heck, this is the seven hundredth one I've seen just at this geographic location alone. Seriously, razed to the ground, built up again, seven hundred times. Only two things still make me feel alive: genuine emotional attachment to another intelligent being." She smiles beatifically. "And the brutal rush-" Her expression becomes a little more manic. "-of bloody combat."

Komand'r nods. "Oh, I totally get you. This… 'Love' thing's kind of new for me, but I've always liked fighting."

The Zamaron glances my way. "He is your first?"

Komand'r hesitates.

"When you say first..?"

"The first person for whom you have felt romantic love."

"Oh! Yeah, definitely."

"You don't sound very convincing."

Komand'r huffs.

"Ugh, fine. He's the first person I think I can be completely honest with, the first I trust enough to be w-." Twitch. "Vuln-." Twitch. "I don't have to constantly assert myself when I'm around him. Who I know will be there for me because he's proven that he loves me too, who I can trust not to abuse that trust."

The Zamaron looks at me.

"And can she?"

"You're not going to ask me if she's my first?"

She shrugs. "I probably would if I was being fair, but we picked female forms for a reason and I'm not."

Komand'r frowns at her. "I am." She looks curiously at me. "I never asked that. Am I?"

"Yes. I love your passion, your fury-."

"That's just a tamaranean thing. I want to hear about me."

"I've never been more alive than in the time I've known you. Your adventurousness, your vivacity, your determination to wring every bit of excitement out of life made me actually embrace what we do rather than stumble from job to job out of a sense of obligation, or… Because I couldn't think of anything better to do. Heck, the way I put aside all of my reservations about letting my anger and hate run free, the.. whole way I was able to channel the Lesser Sign of the Butcher… That was you, what you showed me."

Komand'r's eyes are wide and watery as she drifts over to me and lays her hands on my chest.

"Awww…"

And then head-shaking Zamaron drops a pair of necklaces over our heads.

We both blink, pulling away slightly to look at… The glowing violet crystal attached to each of them.

"Congratulations! You're married."

…

Okay. That's.. why we're here… But…

"Isn't there supposed to be a ceremony?"

"Usually we send a couple who want to be married by us on an epic quest to prove their worth and test their love, but we heard about Vega and you two have pretty much done all that. The Queen can officiate a ceremony with guests if you want, but this is the important bit. Two people who complete each other finding each other."

I think I-. I close my eyes-. I can feel Komand'r through the violet crystal. Komand'r blinks as she realises the same thing.

I hold out my left hand to her.

"Let's go and see the Queen."

 

[Darko]

And don't they all look like babies?"

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Wrinkled babies.

"I'm perfectly fine! Why does EVERYONE say I'm not?!""

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Well, they may say it because of this.

.. look awkwardly at one of the other Zamarons, who subtly shakes her head and makes a 'stop' gesture

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Wise woman.

She shrugs. "I probably would if I was being fair, but we picked female forms for a reason and I'm not."

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Ahh, sexism.

Truly it is a universal concept.

That's just a tamaranean thing. I want to hear about me.""

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Remove one "

Congratulations! You're married."

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Zamaron, the galaxy's version of a quickie Vegas wedding.

. I can feelKomand'r

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'feel Komand'r"

 

[Kalem_Lee]

That was cute as F*k man.