With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Wheenesss · May 30, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Starlight Glimmer is the most impressive villain in the series. Not only could she fight alicorn Twilight on an even level while levitating, she was able to rip off her cutie mark and time travel using her table. She had to work out how to do both things herself. And she mind controlled everyone into letting her get away with destroying the world six times in a row, even when she went back to openly mind controlling ponies!

Arguably the most impressive villain is Discord. While his initial outing left much to be desired as did his backsliding with Tirek, the way he got everyone to conveniently ignore the fact that he was the reason that Chrysalis, Tirek and Cozy Glow got as far as they did in the last season was masterful!

Plus the subtle corruption aspect in how through his machinations he convinced the main cast that turning a small child to stone for eternity was a good idea! Not to mention his befriending of Fluttershy essentially makes it impossible for him to be turned to stone again since she refuses to use the Elements on him. All he had to do now is wait for all the main cast except Twilight to die of old age and he can basically do whatever he wants without repercussions again!

Pinklestia · May 30, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Give every talent to everypony. Or if that's not possible, network them all and let everypony share in everypony else's special talent.

That's how you get the Pony Borg.

Ponies are NOT the kind of species you want to give a Hive mind.

AngelicKnight. · May 30, 2021

Pinklestia said:
That's how you get the Pony Borg.

Ponies are NOT the kind of species you want to give a Hive mind.

But they are so happy and kind and friendly?

Pinklestia · May 30, 2021

AngelicKnight. said:
But they are so happy and kind and friendly?

Unless you are not a PONY then they EXTERMINATE you. If you are a PONY then your KNOWLEDGE and TALENT will be added to the COLLECTIVE.

Darko · May 30, 2021

Pinklestia said:
Unless you are not a PONY then they EXTERMINATE you. If you are a PONY then your KNOWLEDGE and TALENT will be added to the COLLECTIVE.

I'm getting some Conversion Bureau vibes here.

AngelicKnight. · May 30, 2021

Pinklestia said:
Unless you are not a PONY then they EXTERMINATE you. If you are a PONY then your KNOWLEDGE and TALENT will be added to the COLLECTIVE.

Oh right.
*Checks*

Nope still a human. So are ponies really so xenophobic?

Darko said:
I'm getting some Conversion Bureau vibes here.

Those words sound unpleasant.

Wheenesss · May 30, 2021

AngelicKnight. said:
Oh right.
*Checks*

Nope still a human. So are ponies really so xenophobic?

Those words sound unpleasant.

You don't wanna know

egooo · May 30, 2021

AngelicKnight. said:
Those words sound unpleasant.

Kinda a big bad name in the fandom, a work that is... controversial at best, and just shit at worst.

It, however, has borne hundreds of "fix fics" and alternative takes on the premise.

So, fucked if I know whether it is worth looking into more deeply than the basic premise of: "magic rift open into earth, connects to ponyworld. Around rift an ever-expanding magic barrier that kills everything earth-based. Pony leaders think humans vile, and secretly brainwash each and every one while offering 'a helping hoof' by transforming anyone who's willing into a pony and letting them come to Equestria".

I have had way worse experience with Friendship is Optimal, personally, for all that it is, technically, way less shit-tier writing.

Mr Zoat · May 30, 2021

AngelicKnight. said:
If she was so successful why did she keep having to destroy the world? It sounds like she didn't do a good enough job the first time if it took an five attempts.

As I understand it, from her point of view she didn't destroy it at all. She just arrived to stop Rainbow Dash and Twilight started ranting about the world being destroyed, because only Twilight was experiencing those timelines.

Which means that technically she only unmade all life in the universe once. The other four times it was Twilight. I read a fanfiction where a version of Sunset Shimmer from the Sombra timeline survived the resulting chronostorms and came to the main timeline to take revenge, because they'd just started pushing Sombra back and they were going to win, and then Twilight killed them all.

AngelicKnight. · May 30, 2021

Wheenesss said:
You don't wanna know

Okie dokie.

egooo said:
Kinda a big bad name in the fandom, a work that is... controversial at best, and just shit at worst.

It, however, has borne hundreds of "fix fics" and alternative takes on the premise.

So, fucked if I know whether it is worth looking into more deeply than the basic premise of: "magic rift open into earth, connects to ponyworld. Around rift an ever-expanding magic barrier that kills everything earth-based. Pony leaders think humans vile, and secretly brainwash each and every one while offering 'a helping hoof' by transforming anyone who's willing into a pony and letting them come to Equestria".

I have had way worse experience with Friendship is Optimal, personally, for all that it is, technically, way less shit-tier writing.

Hmmm.... yeah sounds dark and grim. Hoomans are not all evil. Some of us are kinda decent. In fact there's some wonderful humans in amongst the rest.

Mr Zoat said:
As I understand it, from her point of view she didn't destroy it at all. She just arrived to stop Rainbow Dash and Twilight started ranting about the world being destroyed, because only Twilight was experiencing those timelines.

Which means that technically she only unmake all life in the universe once. The other four times it was Twilight. I read a fanfiction where a version of Sunset Shimmer from the Sombra timeline survived the resulting chronostorms and came to the main timeline to take revenge, because they'd just started pushing Sombra back and they were going to win, and then Twilight killed them all.

Ah destroying timeliness is kinda horrific. A refugee from a destroyed timeline would be entitled to being passed, especially if after all that torment and pain they were finally starting to fix things.

Pinklestia · May 30, 2021

AngelicKnight. said:
Nope still a human. So are ponies really so xenophobic?

They can be.

Herd mentality works at the lowest common denominator, remember how they acted with a Zebra that's basically another equine? Multiply that for every member of the PONY COLLECTIVE and yes ponies would become extremely racist.

Basically since only PONIES have CUTIE MARKS only PONIES can join the COLLECTIVE and... you can guess the rest.

AngelicKnight. said:
Ah destroying timeliness is kinda horrific. A refugee from a destroyed timeline would be entitled to being passed, especially if after all that torment and pain they were finally starting to fix things.

The idea of the PONY COLLECTIVE is that with the alicorns dead and things fucked due to time travel, ponies got a pony whose talent was "teamwork" and then forcefully connected her to every other pony is hopes of doing some kind of super Heart Song to fix things... instead you get a PONY COLLECTIVE that's extremely racist against not PONIES but is the only way to move the SUN and the MOON and the more PONIES they add the more power the COLLECTIVE has.

Mastigos2 · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Give every talent to everypony. Or if that's not possible, network them all and let everypony share in everypony else's special talent. And if there being different tribes is a problem, just make everypony an alicorn and remove that difference. Level everyone up to the best position, rather than just take things away. Wouldn't that be better?"

Or alternatively it might be simpler to just let them swap out talents as needed

NightmareWarden · May 31, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
And here we have arguments for Transhumanism and designer babies neatly wrapped in a bow.

Level everyone up to remove inequality.

I do hope we will see Grayven argue for this on his world too. Alchemical and other superpowers for everyone!

Agreed! This is fun. I want to see this argument more often in fanfics, doubly so for traditional media. Even fix-fics rarely take this stance. Someday I hope a popular children's show has a (recurring) character with this set of values. Warms my heart. And it really works since, as Grayven is pointing out, there is nuance between removing or "nerfing" those with power and raising others up; who can say when a stop-gap measure for nerfing/imprisonment is necessary?

Actually does anyone know of a story with multiple transhumanists competing? I don't care if it is along the lines of Naruto Shippuden's competition for World Peace, just something in this ballpark would be a fun read for me. Already read HP: Methods of Rationality.

Pinklestia said:
Unless you are not a PONY then they EXTERMINATE you. If you are a PONY then your KNOWLEDGE and TALENT will be added to the COLLECTIVE.

Is this a riff on the Celesti-A.I. fanfic?

Pinklestia · May 31, 2021

NightmareWarden said:
Is this a riff on the Celesti-A.I. fanfic?

Pony Borg basically, only they can only assimilate other ponies.

Mr Zoat · May 31, 2021

23rd August 2012
20:32 GMT -7

I.. cautiously approach Luna as she stands looking out over the Canterlot falls.

"L-."

"You were not precisely fulsome in your defence of Our status."

"The first day we met, you told me that you weren't able to be an effective ruler. You told me that you wanted to fix that. It hardly surprises me that other ponies were put out by you suddenly skipping ahead of them in the order of precedence."

I risk taking a step closer, rustling my wings.

"For you, it was a stressful and despondency-inducing situation. For other ponies it was a slap in the face. They don't see what it was doing to you, they see what it was doing to them and theirs."

"And what was Starlight Glimmer's position?"

"She's the founder and mayor of a small town. Though honestly, it sounds like she isn't a fan of alicorn tyranny regardless of who sits on the throne. Refreshing, actually. I'd been beginning to think that all ponies were Celestia-cultists."

"Tyranny? Do We truly seem tyrannical to you?"

"You didn't inherit the throne or get elected to your position. You're not a queen or a president. There's no Witen, no parliament and no senate. You and Celestia define your own offices. Legally, you are personally empowered to do whatever you want unless Celestia gainsays you. The average pony has no say in how the nation is governed, however far removed. The average Crystal Pony had no say in having Princess Cadance and Shining Armor imposed on them. You're better than Discord and they're better than Sombra, but that's a pretty low bar."

She takes a deep breath, her eyes still focusing ahead.

"Neigh, Grayven, prithee tell Us how you really think."

"I thought we were at the spinach teeth stage. If you just want me to act the toady-."

"We do not." She turns her neck to regard me with her left eye. "'Spinach teeth'?"

"The first part of a romantic relationship is about mutual reassurance. You want to know that the other person desires you and likes you. But after a certain point, honesty is more important than flattery because you trust them to stop you doing something you'd rather avoid doing. 'You look gorgeous, darling' gets replaced with 'you've got spinach stuck between your teeth, might want to fix that before you go out in public'."

"And precisely how have We utilised our office in a manner befitting a tyrant?"

"When Celestia freed Discord, did she consult the courts? If petrification was no longer required, is he going to be tried and punished for his crimes in accordance with the Equestrian Code of Law? Or was it an arbitrary decision?"

"Discord is rehabilitated far beyond Our expectations. We do not see this as a problem."

Gun.

By your command.

A glowing copy of G1 Megatron's cannon appears in the air next to me, and I point it at the city.

"Would it be alright if I pulled the trigger? The beam's fairly thin and the city's not that wide. I might not hit anyone."

"We would rather that you did not."

"'If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid and you're lucky.'" I dismiss the construct. "I'm perfectly aware that Sunset doesn't treat me with anything like the deference I could demand as her employer. This is intentional. I want people willing to gainsay me because I'm perfectly aware that I'm not perfect. Celestia's used a form of government where no one does that for at least a thousand years."

"How would you feel in Starlight Glimmer's position?"

"Me? I'd either be rabble-rousing or leaving the country. But I'm only a pony by magic. She's the only local I've heard espouse such sentiments, including Sunset."

"Doth that mean that they respect Our abilities, or that they are so slavishly devoted that they do not think to question?" She sighs. "No, do not answer. We already know the truth of it. It is simply uncomfortable to be confronted so directly."

"But when she sees what you have become a few years from now, having her admit it will make it all the more worthwhile."

She tilts her head to the side. "You think we should take her onto Our staff, then?"

"Dunno. Honestly, I think she might just be kind of crazy. You should have heard what she said about Celestia's school after you left."

"Doth she also hate kittens and rainbows?"

"I didn't ask. Though rainbows are pretty unequal."

"How are rainbows-?" She inhales sharply. "No, We will not stick our forehoof in that rabbit hole. Why is she so ill-disposed to the School?"

"Surface level analysis stuff, really. There's a School for Gifted Unicorns but no equivalent for earth ponies or pegasus ponies."

"And your retort?"

"Well, the name of the school is misleading, but the fact is that magic-talent unicorns have specific educational needs that aren't going to be met by a general education system. Because while most unicorns only ever use thaumokinesis and a couple of spells their special talent whispers to them in their sleep-"

"That is most certainly not how it works."

"-the-." I wing-shrug. "How would you describe it, then?"

"You make the process sound sinister, when in fact it is simply their special talent applying itself to their understanding of their magic."

"You know… I'm.. honestly not entirely convinced that special talents aren't sinister."

"Grayven, do you not recall how astonished We were when first you told Us how long humans spend in full time education?"

"Yeah, and I'll admit that it's convenient, but at least they know where the knowledge is coming from."

"We have never seen evidence proving beyond doubt that special talents grant knowledge. If that is truly what transpired, magic talents would be able to cast any spell that could be cast without the need for study, and your argument concerning Our Sister's school is that they cannot."

"Right, but Sunset said that she could intuit parts of magic theory without being taught them. Being able to learn a lot of spells is a side effect of the magic talent, not its primary focus." I shake my head. "We could argue this forever. The subject has never been studied with sufficient rigour to draw firm conclusions, and… After today, I can see why."

"We will expect you to make good on their injuries. We saw one of Our ponies try to tear off his own hind legs."

"Alright, but only after they've calmed down. There's no point in healing them if they're just going to injure themselves again. I've already called in some g-gnomes to check their mental states." I sigh. "But most of them are just the sort of people we need to actually carry this research out. And if they're going to do fainting goat impressions whenever they look at their own work, we're going to get nowhere." This time I sigh with a little more frustration. "These ponies lived through the Changeling Invasion. How are they this… Fragile?"

"Wouldst not the people of Apokolips react poorly to learning that their god-powers doth not flow from Darkseid?"

"Yes, but they wouldn't try to claw them out of themselves. And they'd probably just inform on the one telling them that, or kill them themselves."

"Ponies are not naturally predators."

"And? Predators attack the weakest because they can't afford to risk challenging the strongest head on. Prey species are far more savage, because their instincts tell them that if they aren't then they'll die anyway. I don't believe that was biology for a moment. Most ponies need to toughen the heck up-."

Oh.

"I think I need to…" Ugh. "Talk to.. Discord."

"No." Luna turns around to fully face me, walking over to me. "You have traumatised Our ponies enough this eve. Now, We wish to speak more with Starlight Glimmer. Lead Us to her."

"Your wish is my command."

w34v3r · May 31, 2021

I need to see this now, I need to see this conversation between Discord and Grayven.

Darko · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Your and Celestia define your own offices

'You'

Mr Zoat said:
You're better than Discord and they're better than Sombra, but that's a pretty low bar."

Like Bronn said.

"That's like saying I have a bigger cock than anyone in the Unsullied army."

Mr Zoat said:
How would do you feel in Starlight

Remove 'do'

Mr Zoat said:
Honestly, I think she might just be kind of crazy.

And surprisingly you're right.

Mr Zoat said:
"I didn't ask. Though rainbows are pretty unequal."

"How are rainbows-?" She

There are more than seven colors.

And the rainbow lacks them.

Mr Zoat said:
We were when first you told Us how long humans spend in full time education?"

'you first'

Mr Zoat said:
spells is a side effect the magic talent,

'of the magic'

Mr Zoat said:
it's primary

'its'

Mr Zoat said:
These ponies lived through the Changeling Invasion. How are they this… Fragile?"

Well you did shatter their worldview.

Mr Zoat said:
"I think I need to…" Ugh. "Talk to.. Discord

I sense shenanigans.

Handlewithcare · May 31, 2021

Hm. He thinks Discord's purpose is to toughen Ponies up? That might mean he's actually part of the Harmony himself...

Mr Zoat · May 31, 2021

Darko said:
'You'
Remove 'do'
'of the magic'
'its'

Thank you, corrected.

'you first'

No, that's correct.

HypoSoc · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
'You look gorgeous, darling' gets replaced with 'you've got spinach stuck between your teeth, might want to fix that before you go out in public'.

So, yeah, honesty is important in a relationship, but there is a difference between discretely pointing out someone has spinach in their teeth and publicly detracting them, especially since a) he detracted her to a person who was explicitly hostile, and b) it was the first time he brought the matter up to her, so she had no opportunity to compose herself or "take the spinach out of her teeth."

Grayven is not a dick for his word choice, his reasoning, or for bringing the matter up with Luna.

But Grayven is absolutely a dick for the timing.

Which is consistent for the character. But I hope he eventually learns why social mores exist and becomes a better, more thoughtful, more constructive partner. I am rooting for this slow socialization.

Chojin Patriarch · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
23rd August 2012
20:32 GMT -7

I.. cautiously approach Luna as she stands looking out over the Canterlot falls.

Well, time to take that ticking he earned earlier. Though depending on how angry she is, he may want to make sure he's got the hang of wings. She may toss him off the cliff.

"L-."

"You were not precisely fulsome in your defence of Our status."

Oooh. If they're at the level of sharing a bed, he's gonna be on the couch for a while...

"The first day we met, you told me that you weren't able to be an effective ruler. You told me that you wanted to fix that. It hardly surprises me that other ponies were put out by you suddenly skipping ahead of them in the order of precedence."

I risk taking a step closer, rustling my wings.

Careful, you don't want to get within bucking range there yet.

"For you, it was a stressful and despondency-inducing situation. For other ponies it was a slap in the face. They don't see what it was doing to you, they see what it was doing to them and theirs."

"And what was Starlight Glimmer's position?"

Which, honestly, is disappointing for a race as supposedly empathetic as ponies should be... Then again, the nobles of Canterlot do seem a vain and petty lot sometimes.

"She's the founder and mayor of a small town. Though honestly, it sounds like she isn't a fan of alicorn tyranny regardless of who sits on the throne. Refreshing, actually. I'd been beginning to think that all ponies were Celestia-cultists."

"Tyranny? Do We truly seem tyrannical to you?"

In a beneficent interpretation of tyrant. That is, Celestia took power when it seemed no-one else would, in order to pacify an unstable land...

"You didn't inherit the throne or get elected to your position. You're not a queen or a president. There's no Witen, no parliament and no senate. Your and Celestia define your own offices. Legally, you are personally empowered to do whatever you want unless Celestia gainsays you. The average pony has no say in how the nation is governed, however far removed. The average Crystal Pony had no say in having Princess Cadance and Shining Armor imposed on them. You're better than Discord and they're better than Sombra, but that's a pretty low bar."

To be fair, most townships seem to get along by themselves fine. I suspect some would take exception to 'some big muckity-muck coming along and telling them how to live' or the like. Well, besides Celestia, who they'd likely give a pass because Celestia.

She takes a deep breath, her eyes still focusing ahead.

"Neigh, Grayven, prithee tell Us how you really think."

Oof. Danger, Renegade, Danger!

"I thought we were at the spinach teeth stage. If you just want me to act the toady-."

"We do not." She turns her neck to regard me with her left eye. "'Spinach teeth'?"

...That's a new one to me, too.

"The first part of a romantic relationship is about mutual reassurance. You want to know that the other person desires you and likes you. But after a certain point, honesty is more important than flattery because you trust them to stop you doing something you'd rather avoid doing. 'You look gorgeous, darling' gets replaced with 'you've got spinach stuck between your teeth, might want to fix that before you go out in public'."

...Okay, that makes sense. Sometimes not what they might want to hear, but...

"And precisely how have We utilised our office in a manner befitting a tyrant?"

"When Celestia freed Discord, did she consult the courts? If petrification was no longer required, is he going to be tried and punished for his crimes in accordance with the Equestrian Code of Law? Or was it an arbitrary decision?"

To be fair, there are very few ways of punishing Discord out there. His friendship with Fluttershy is probably the strongest lever they have now.

"Discord is rehabilitated far beyond Our expectations. We do not see this as a problem."

Gun.

Ehhh... He still does come to be a problem down the line. The Tirek affair, for one.

By your command.

A glowing copy of G1 Megatron's cannon appears in the air next to me, and I point it at the city.

Is there a point to this little display, Grayven?

"Would it be alright if I pulled the trigger? The beam's fairly thin and the city's not that wide. I might not hit anyone."

"We would rather than you did not."

...Ah. You're comparing Discord to a loaded gun pointed at Equestria.

"'If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid and you're lucky.'" I dismiss the construct. "I'm perfectly aware that Sunset doesn't treat me with anything like the deference I could demand as her employer. This is intentional. I want people willing to gainsay me because I'm perfectly aware that I'm not perfect. Celestia's used a form of government where no one does that for at least a thousand years."

"How would do you feel in Starlight Glimmer's position?"

Honestly, though, that is a good point. To be fair, I don't think Celestia really had much options for rulership back then, though. Dark Times and all taht.

"Me? I'd either be rabble-rousing or leaving the country. But I'm only a pony by magic. She's the only local I've heard espouse such sentiments, including Sunset."

"Doth that mean that they respect Our abilities, or that they are so slavishly devoted that they do not think to question?" She sighs. "No, do not answer. We already know the truth of it. It is simply uncomfortable to be confronted so directly."

Sometimes, you need to just rip the bandage off and look at the ugliness. Otherwise, you end up leaving it to fester and become gangrenous...

"But when she sees what you have become a few years from now, having her admit it will make it all the more worthwhile."

She tilts her head to the side. "You think we should take her onto Our staff, then?"

...It would be a good way to keep an eye on the little nutbar.

"Dunno. Honestly, I think she might just be kind of crazy. You should have heard what she said about Celestia's school after you left."

"Doth she also hate kittens and rainbows?"

Let me guess. Not fit for repeating in polite company?

"I didn't ask. Though rainbows are pretty unequal."

"How are rainbows-?" She inhales sharply. "No, We will not stick out forehoof in that rabbit hole. Why is she so ill-disposed to the School?"

She's a little bit cracked. Be glad she isn't ranting about little green goats or something.

"Surface level analysis stuff, really. There's a School for Gifted Unicorns but no equivalent for earth ponies or pegasus ponies."

"And your retort?"

Well, for a start, Earth ponies don't use obvious magic, while Pegasii have their own kind of ability training schools.

"Well, the name of the school is misleading, but the fact is that magic-talent unicorns have specific educational needs that aren't going to be met by a general education system. Because while most unicorns only ever use thaumokinesis and a couple of spells their special talent whispers to them in their sleep-"

"That is most certainly not how it works."

And she'd know, seeing as she can see ponies' dreams and all.

"-the-." I wing-shrug. "How would you describe it, then?"

"You make the process sound sinister, when in fact it is simply their special talent applying itself to their understanding of their magic."

So would them dreaming of a schoolroom where they learn new magic in their dreams be that much better?

"You know… I'm.. honestly not entirely convinced that special talents aren't sinister."

"Grayven, do you not recall how astonished We were when first you told Us how long humans spend in full time education?"

A minimum of ten to twelve years, in most countries. I suppose that's a long time for a pony, but...

"Yeah, and I'll admit that it's convenient, but at least they know where the knowledge is coming from."

"We have never seen evidence proving beyond doubt that special talents grant knowledge. If that is truly what transpired, magic talents would be able to cast any spell that could be cast without the need for study, and your argument concerning Our Sister's school is that they cannot."

I don't know... a Magic-focused talent doesn't necessarily mean unlimited magical knowledge...

"Right, but Sunset said that she could intuit parts of magic theory without being taught them. Being able to learn a lot of spells is a side effect the magic talent, not it's primary focus." I shake my head. "We could argue this forever. The subject has never been studied with sufficient rigour to draw firm conclusions, and… After today, I can see why."

"We will expect you to make good on their injuries. We saw one of Our ponies try to tear off his own hind legs."

...Ow. At least right now they're having nice, quite, colourful dreams...

"Alright, but only after they've calmed down. There's no point in healing them if they're just going to injure themselves again. I've already called in some g-gnomes to check their mental states." I sigh. "But most of them are just the sort of people we need to actually carry this research out. And if they're going to do fainting goat impressions whenever they look at their own work, we're going to get nowhere." This time I sigh with a little more frustration. "These ponies lived through the Changeling Invasion. How are they this… Fragile?"

Hey, now. Wouldn't you have a little trouble is something challenged your entire worldview, one that's been ingrained since practically the moment you were born, and suggested everything you've ever done is a lie, achieved via cheating or just plain wrong?

"Wouldst not the people of Apokolips react poorly to learning that their god-powers doth not flow from Darkseid?"

"Yes, but they wouldn't try to claw them out of themselves. And they'd probably just inform on the one telling them that, or kill them themselves."

And feel entirely justified by throwing them under the bus, because if they'd been smarter, they wouldn't have exposed themself.

"Ponies are not naturally predators."

"And? Predators attack the weakest because they can't afford to risk challenging the strongest head on. Prey species are far more savage, because their instincts tell them that if they aren't then they'll die anyway. I don't believe that was biology for a moment. Most ponies need to toughen the heck up-."

That's no joke, either. Herd animals especially can and will fuck you up if driven to fight.

Oh.

"I think I need to…" Ugh. "Talk to.. Discord."

Oh, goddammit, Grayven. Are you going to ask him to begin a pranking campaign or something?

"No." Luna turns around to fully face me, walking over to me. "You have traumatised Our ponies enough this eve. Now, We wish to speak more with Starlight Glimmer. Lead Us to her."

"Your wish is my command."

This will end in shouting, I have no doubt of that.

Okay, not sleeping on the couch just yet. But she is still not happy with him, I can tell. Let's hope he remembers some of the lessons he learned from his breakup with Jade, before this goes down the tubes too. And hopefully, they can defuse Starlight Glimmer's particular brand of crazy. At least she'd likely refuse Alicornhood just yet...

"No, We will not stick out forehoof in that rabbit hole.
"No, We will not stick our forehoof in that rabbit hole.

Vaermina · May 31, 2021

HypoSoc said:
So, yeah, honesty is important in a relationship, but there is a difference between discretely pointing out someone has spinach in their teeth and publicly detracting them, especially since a) he detracted her to a person who was explicitly hostile, and b) it was the first time he brought the matter up to her, so she had no opportunity to compose herself or "take the spinach out of her teeth."

Grayven is not a dick for his word choice, his reasoning, or for bringing the matter up with Luna.

But Grayven is absolutely a dick for the timing.

Which is consistent for the character. But I hope he eventually learns why social mores exist and becomes a better, more thoughtful, more constructive partner. I am rooting for this slow socialization.

Given the only Paul to ever even remotely understand the necessity of Social Mores was the one given the Super Power of Common Sense...

Mr Zoat · May 31, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Hey, now. Wouldn't you have a little trouble is something challenged your entire worldview, one that's been ingrained since practically the moment you were born, and suggested everything you've ever done is a lie, achieved via cheating or just plain wrong?

'The work of Detective Comics are fictional, and any resemblance to real people living or dead is entirely coincidental.'

"No, We will not stick out forehoof in that rabbit hole.
"No, We will not stick our forehoof in that rabbit hole.

Thank you, corrected.

The Froggy Ninja · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
'The work of Detective Comics are fictional, and any resemblance to real people living or dead is entirely coincidental.'

Counterpoint, Grayven did use science and sorcery to excise most respemblance to people living or dead.

Sockmonkey · May 31, 2021

The rabbit hole metaphor implies more danger in pony society than it does for humans. An equine moving at a gallop stepping into a small hole is going to snap their leg.

BR549 · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
'The work of Detective Comics are fictional, and any resemblance to real people living or dead is entirely coincidental.'

Is this Ambush Bug's position on the matter?

Khettien · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
but at least they know where the knowledge is coming from.

Ehhh. I've never really come across a satisfactory definitive difference between education and indoctrination. Most of them boil down to, "you can trust us, but watch out for those other guys!"

Mr Zoat said:
Prey species are far more savage, because their instincts tell them that if they aren't then they'll die anyway.

Like the bear joke implies, it's not about being the toughest prey, it's about appearing tough enough the predators go and look for another target. (For those not familiar - Two men are being chased by a bear. One stops to swap out his boots for running shoes, and the other screams, "Are you crazy?!" The first man calmly replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have outrun you.")

Sordid Snake · May 31, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"We will expect you to make good on their injuries. We saw one of Our ponies try to tear off his own hind legs."

Now Grayven is become Nyarlathotep, Troller of Worlds.

Tumeke · May 31, 2021

Sockmonkey said:
The rabbit hole metaphor implies more danger in pony society than it does for humans. An equine moving at a gallop stepping into a small hole is going to snap their leg.

The 'rabbit hole' is a reference to Alice in Wonderland. It doesn't have anything to do with literally stepping in rabbit holes.

rkyeun · May 31, 2021

Tumeke said:
The 'rabbit hole' is a reference to Alice in Wonderland. It doesn't have anything to do with literally stepping in rabbit holes.

Aside from the fact that Alice fell into the hole of the white rabbit.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Experienced.

Well worn.

Lewd demon of negotiable affection

Well worn.

Connoisseur.

Lewd demon of negotiable affection

Experienced.

Getting sticky.

Dedicated ragequitter

Lewd demon of negotiable affection

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Well worn.

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

The mind is such a fragile plaything.

Veteran Lurker

Well worn.

Dedicated ragequitter

The Blade Will Never Die

I trust you know where the happy button is?

This is filth! FILTH!!

Perpetually confused

(Verified Viper)

Getting out there.

Cabbitus Maximus

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