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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Then again I don't see what even the point of the tangent was, if Stsword wasn't talking about the Amazons as per this fic then he was derailing for absolutely no reason.

Darko made a statement assuming that the Amazons of Nazi world here are the same as the Amazons of WTR earth-16.

I pointed out that while there are Doylist reasons for believing in that possibility, but on the Watsonian level DC's Amazons aren't all the same between universes, versions generally having innate powers, magic, super-technology, or a combination of two or even all three of those advantages.

Someone then specifically asked me about the Amazons of the DCAU.

So I answered the question asked of me.

Anyway, It's a pity the alt.Paul known as Peter doesn't remember watching the cartoon, because the amazon conversion process could've have been his version of the passing out the Donner formula. Of course, he'd have needed to find something that works on the guys and gals who don't want to become Amazons for religious reasons or whatever, but I think Zoat could have done interesting things with that.
 
I have trouble parsing this. The "other answer" to what question?
It's from right at the start of this episode.
Atom Man stares at me though his visor as I carry another stunned cultist to our drop-off point.

"How many do you think we need?"

"Two possible answers to that. The first is that, since we don't know, we should try to collect as many as possible, if doing so doesn't cost us anything. The more we capture, the more likely we are to gain useful intelligence."
 
Plus Two (part 2)
21st May 2013
23:23 MTZ


Slipstream scrapes her right foot across the deck plate and examines her right fingernails as Arcee stares at her, fingers twitching and arm blades deployed.

"Careful." Slipstream stops studying her fingers for a moment and look at Arcee. "If the wind changes your face could get stuck like that."

Arcee's eyes narrow to slits. "Don't push me, Con."

Slipsteam shrugs. "So. Bike alt-mode. How does that work, considering your… You know."

"My what?"

"Your mass."

Bulkhead doors in the side of the room open, revealing Bulkhead with a barrel of energon over his shoulder. "Hey Arcee, where do you want-?"

Arcee steps aggressively towards Slipstream. "What's wrong with my mass?"

Bulkhead hesitates for a moment, then steps back and allows the heavy metal door to close in front of him.

"I was wondering where you keep it. Since I left Cybertron I've had my eyes open for upgrades, and normal T-cogs can't just make mass disappear like that. I-."

The room's other door opens and Agent Fowler, Nurse Darby and Paul walk out at ground level, followed a few careful low-squish-probability steps behind by Ratchet. Arcee's eyes immediately go to the team's medic, while Slipstream only has eyes for her partner.

"Aside from a few minor scrapes, Agent Fowler and Nurse Darby appear to be in good health."

Arcee looks unconvinced. "I thought she shot them with a null-ray."

"Null-rays impede electrical activity. Since humans are organic, exposure to its effects are far less dangerous to them than they would be to us."

Slipstream crouches down as Paul approaches her.

"Did Ratchet give you a clean bill of health?"

Ratchet shifts awkwardly. "I can't claim to be entirely familiar with Nebulon cyber-organic implan-"

Paul grins, rolling his eyes incredulously. "Yeah."

"-ts-. Ch-! Buh-!" Ratchet splutters, though whether he's shocked at the implication or embarrassed at being discovered in a lie isn't entirely clear. He takes a moment to compose himself. "So far as I can determine, Borx effectively bridged the differences between cybertronian technology and human neurology. I have no idea what the long term effects of bonding like-"

Paul smirks. "Never would have guessed."

"-this will-." He blinks, spots the jibe as Slipstream's expression mirrors that of her partner, then stares directly at him. "You have a piece of alien technology wired directly into your central nervous system. No one knows what that might do. You have taken a foolish and unnecessary risk with your health."

"Doctor, going outside is a risk to your health." He walks over to Slipstream and leans against her right leg. "But neither of us are going to stop."

"Cybertronian technology is considerably easier to repair than human physiology."

"Earth has about fourteen thousand high-yield fission bombs. How easy to repair are you after getting hit by one of those?"

"Not very." Ratchet looks bemused. "That quantity seems… Somewhat excessive for a single biosphere. Though as you imply, even one close-proximity detonation would utterly atomise any Cybertronian unfortunate enough to be hit."

"There you go. Look, the Nebulons have been using this technology for decades. I'm not worried."

Slipstream nods. "We're not worried." She stands back up to her full height. "Now where's the rest of our payment?"

The heavily reinforced door slides open again and Bulkhead lumbers in with the barrel of energon. "Here it is, Con." He drops the barrel on the floor in front of her. "You can carry it out on your own."

"'Con'? Really?" Slipstream shakes her head. "That doesn't matter any more."

"It matters to me."

"Megatron used to command an army of billions. Now? He's got the crew of one ship. And most of them don't like him very much. Airachnid and Starscream are actively backstabbing him at every opportunity. And on your side, Prime used to command an army of billions and now he's just.. got.. you. What are you even fighting for?"

"Mom!"

A smaller human runs in from behind Bulkhead and embraces Nurse Darby. Slipstream pauses to watch him.

And then Arcee pointedly steps into her line of sight, blocking her view of him.

Slipstream smiles menacingly, and Arcee raises her arm blades.

"To prevent Megatron realising his ambitions."

Optimus Prime strides in, prompting Arcee to lower her blades slightly. Slipstream affects a nonchalant posture, but Paul can feel the tension in her frame. Optimus Prime is… Bigger than in the images he'd seen so far.

"Even with a single warship, Megatron could destroy every city on Earth."

"Unless."

Slipstream is momentarily surprised by her partner speaking up, and isn't able to stop herself glancing down at him. Mouthing off to Arcee is one thing, but the 'bot who led half of the war that ruined Cybertron and finished it off by ripping out Primus's soul isn't someone she wants to have to fight. Again. But while their bond doesn't let them read each other's minds, she can feel that he's going somewhere with this.

"Unless you'd used any of the half-dozen times you'd been onboard the Nemesis to plant one of those fourteen thousand fission bombs on board and blown it up." He smiles. "Did I mention that we're for hire?"

"You did." Optimus Prime actually sounds sad. "But if you truly have no interest in continuing the war, I would strongly suggest that you both leave Earth."

Paul shakes his head. "Have you got any idea what India will pay for a working thorium reactor design? Besides, we need the energon. And I want to see what happens when Slipstream turns up to an anime convention."

Chu-tsche.

Arcee morphs her right hand into its gun configuration, and everyone hesitates. Agent Fowler comes out of it first, ushering the Darbys out of the room. Then Arcee speaks.

"Are you just treating this as a way to get rich? How dare you not take the war seriously!?"

Slipstream doesn't change her limb configuration. But she does smile.

"Why are you taking that so personally?"

"Decepticons have murdered two of my partners."

Slipstream feels a pulse of confusion from Paul at the use of the term 'murder' to refer to killing an armed soldier during a war. And she thinks that he has a point.

"Huh. How about that. Do you know who else has lost partners since this war started?"

Arcee pauses, perhaps realising that she's escalating too far but unable to restrain herself. "You, I hope."

Oh, that-!

"EVERYONE! Literally everyone has lost people close to them! The fact that it happened to you does not make you special, and it doesn't make them special! My whole squad died one after the other starting with the Kaon Uprising and finishing at the Fall of Iacon and I-. How many do you think are still alive today who started the war-?"

"One in every one thousand one hundred thirty seven." Optimus Prime steps between then, gently pushing Arcee's gun down. "At the last census taken before the launch of the Ark, one in one thousand one hundred thirty seven remained. By now, the figure is likely to be much lower. I imagine that the number on the Decepticon side was similar."

He takes a step closer.

"Slipstream, I would gladly stop fighting tomorrow. All the survivors of the war could return to Cybertron and work together to rebuild our civilisation. A new High Council could be formed with Autobot and Decepticon alike, and we could settle our disputes peacefully. I would even abandon my title of Prime if that were necessary. I would gladly stop fighting, if it were not for the fact that I know Megatron will not. Whatever he once believed, he is fully committed to dominating cybertronian society through force. Do you disagree?"

Slipstream hesitates.

"Ah-?" … "No."

"And that is why we fight. Thank you for rescuing our human allies from Knock Out. Now take your payment, and go."
 
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Slipsteam shrugs. "So. Bike alt-mode. How does that work, considering your… You know."

"My what?"

"Your mass."

You don't ask women, or giant robots that!

Arcee steps aggressively towards Slipstream. "What's wrong with my mass?"

Bulkhead hesitates for a moment, then steps back and allows the heavy metal door to close in front of him.

Smart man.

"Doctor, going outside is a risk to your health

Yes, but this is even more risky and stupid.

. "That quantity seems… Somewhat excessive for a single biosphere

Welcome to Earth, bitch.

Not the safest place in the universe.

transformer unfortunately enough to be hit."

'unfortunate'

Megatron used to command an army of billions. Now? He's got the crew of one ship. And most of them don't like him very much. Airachnid and Starscream are actively backstabbing him at every opportunity

Though the quiet one is ever loyal.

And I want to see what happens when Slipstream turns up to an anime convention."

Nice to see that you have your priorities straight.

human allies from Knockout

I think this should be 'Knock Out' since that's how you spelled it the first time.

aren't bound. She was in Knock Out's trunk, then-.
 
"One in every one thousand one hundred thirty seven." Optimus Prime steps between then, gently pushing Arcee's gun down. "At the last census taken before the launch of the Ark, one in one thousand one hundred thirty seven remained. By now, the figure is likely to be much lower. I imagine that the number on the Decepticon side was similar."

He takes a step closer.

"Slipstream, I would gladly stop fighting tomorrow. All the survivors of the war could return to Cybertron and work together to rebuild our civilisation. A new High Council could be formed with Autobot and Decepticon alike, and we could settle our disputes peacefully. I would even abandon my title of Prime if that were necessary. I would gladly stop fighting, if it were not for the fact that I know Megatron will not. Whatever he once believed, he is fully committed to dominating cybertronian society through force. Do you disagree?"

Slipstream hesitates.

"Ah-?" … "No."

"And that is why we fight. Thank you for rescuing our human allies from Knock Out. Now take your payment, and go."
Attempt at "I know better then you" moralizing shot down by Optimus fucking Prime.
 
21st May 2013
23:23 MTZ


Slipstream scrapes her right foot across the deck plate and examines her right fingernails as Arcee stares at her, fingers twitching and arm blades deployed.
Ah, we return to the world of 'Transformers: Prime'. And given the titling, at the end of the corresponding episode. And evidently Slipstream is being her charming self to the other Autobots. Odd, how many formerly-Decepticon femmes have what some would call 'attitudes'. It's like they attracted a certain type... :p

"Careful." Slipstream stops studying her fingers for a moment and look at Arcee. "If the wind changes your face could get stuck like that."

Arcee's eyes narrow to slits. "Don't push me, Con."
While she may sound bitchy, Arcee really does have reasons to be so... Short with Decepticons... Though she's hardly the only bot in the world with issues.

Slipsteam shrugs. "So. Bike alt-mode. How does that work, considering your… You know."

"My what?"
To be fair, she does have big... Boots. I always figured a lot of transformers are basically hollow, given the sheer amount of displacement involved in some transformations. Would put them in line with their toys, these days. :D

"Your mass."

Bulkhead doors in the side of the room open, revealing Bulkhead with a barrel of energon over his shoulder. "Hey Arcee, where do you want-?"
Best turn around, big 'bot, you have no idea what you're about to walk into...

Arcee steps aggressively towards Slipstream. "What's wrong with my mass?"

Bulkhead hesitates for a moment, then steps back and allows the heavy metal door to close in front of him.
Yep, he's not crazy enough to get in on that kind of fight. Femmes can be real nasty.

"I was wondering where you keep it. Since I left Cybertron I've had my eyes open for upgrades, and normal T-cogs can't just make mass disappear like that. I-."

The room's other door opens and Agent Fowler, Nurse Darby and Paul walk out at ground level, followed a few careful low-squish-probability steps behind by Ratchet. Arcee's eyes immediately go to the team's medic, while Slipstream only has eyes for her partner.
Aw, no catfight. Still, there's always hope in the future...

"Aside from a few minor scrapes, Agent Fowler and Nurse Darby appear to be in good health."

Arcee looks unconvinced. "I thought she shot them with a null-ray."
For those not into 'Transformers' lingo, it's basically a stun-ray for transformers. Effectively a taser using a laser pulse to carry the charge. Bad news for anything technological, but for squishy humans? Unless you have a pacemaker or the like, not much worse than an actual stun-gun.

"Null-rays impede electrical activity. Since humans are organic, exposure to its effects are far less dangerous to them than they would be to us."

Slipstream crouches down as Paul approaches her.
...Still hurts like hell, given the on-screen depictions, though.

"Did Ratchet give you a clean bill of health?"

Ratchet shifts awkwardly. "I can't claim to be entirely familiar with Nebulon cyber-organic implan-"
...Not that he'd leave an oversight like that stand for long. Given how long he's worked with humans now, I would not be surprised if he's downloaded just about every scrap of human biological and medical data on the internet...

Paul grins, rolling his eyes incredulously. "Yeah."

"-ts-. Ch-! Buh-!" Ratchet splutters, though whether he's shocked at the implication or embarrassed at being discovered in a lie isn't entirely clear. He takes a moment to compose himself. "So far as I can determine, Borx effectively bridged the differences between cybertronian technology and human neurology. I have no idea what the long term effects of bonding like-"
Yeah, Nebulans have really strange naming conventions. Assuming they aren't using a pseudonym, like the various Targetmaster partners (Old military nicknames, perhaps?) they tend to sound like a writer stringing random phonemes together.

Paul smirks. "Never would have guessed."

"-this will-." He blinks, spots the jibe as Slipstream's expression mirrors that of her partner, then stares directly at him. "You have a piece of alien technology wired directly into your central nervous system. No one knows what that might do. You have taken a foolish and unnecessary risk with your health."
Well, given the weirdness that happened to some binary-bonded Nebulans(Hi-Q and Zarak in Marvel Comics being the strangest amongst them) you're right to worry.

"Doctor, going outside is a risk to your health." He walks over to Slipstream and leans against her right leg. "But neither of us are going to stop."

"Cybertronian technology is considerably easier to repair than human physiology."
Only if you're working with human technology. We still haven't seen whether this Paul still has charge in his Ring, after all. (Though we can assume he does have one, given how he apparently met Slipstream...)

"Earth has about fourteen thousand high-yield fission bombs. How easy to repair are you after getting hit by one of those?"

"Not very." Ratchet looks bemused. "That quantity seems… Somewhat excessive for a single biosphere. Though as you imply, even one close-proximity detonation would utterly atomise any transformer unfortunately enough to be hit."
Along with anything else nearby. So you're hardly unique in that aspect...

"There you go. Look, the Nebulons have been using this technology for decades. I'm not worried."

Slipstream nods. "We're not worried." She stands back up to her full height. "Now where's the rest of our payment?"
Well, not worried anywhere anyone else can see, I would assume.

The heavily reinforced door slides open again and Bulkhead lumbers in with the barrel of energon. "Here it is, Con." He drops the barrel on the floor in front of her. "You can carry it out on your own."

"'Con'? Really?" Slipstream shakes her head. "That doesn't matter any more."
Well, given the Decepticons they interact with on a regular basis... Is it any wonder they're biased?

"It matters to me."

"Megatron used to command an army of billions. Now? He's got the crew of one ship. And most of them don't like him very much. Airachnid and Starscream are actively backstabbing him at every opportunity. And on your side, Prime used to command an army of billions and now he's just.. got.. you. What are you even fighting for?"
And yes, those figures are reasonably accurate. Cybertron was not a small planet, whatever the continuity. And a war lasting several million years with no way to replace troops will eventually whittle those populations down.

"Mom!"

A smaller human runs in from behind Bulkhead and embraces Nurse Darby. Slipstream pauses to watch him.
Feeling a bit of curiosity about the parental thing, honey? On the other hand, he is Arcee's latest 'partner'.

And then Arcee pointedly steps into her line of sight, blocking her view of him.

Slipstream smiles menacingly, and Arcee raises her arm blades.
...And Arcee isn't about to lose another partner this soon.

"To prevent Megatron realising his ambitions."

Optimus Prime strides in, prompting Arcee to lower her blades slightly. Slipstream affects a nonchalant posture, but Paul can feel the tension in her frame. Optimus Prime is… Bigger than in the images he'd seen so far.
His original body in the series was easily thirty feet tall. After his near-death at the end of Season two and subsequent repair... He's even bigger... As in, even Bulkhead is barely chest-high to him, and even a little less massive.

"Even with a single warship, Megatron could destroy every city on Earth."

"Unless."
:eek: Dang, Paul. Talking back to Optimus Prime? That's like... Tugging on Superman's cape. :D

Slipstream is momentarily surprised by her partner speaking up, and isn't able to stop herself glancing down at him. Mouthing off to Arcee is one thing, but the 'bot who led half of the war that ruined Cybertron and finished it off by ripping out Primus's soul isn't someone she wants to have to fight. Again. But while their bond doesn't let them read each others minds, she can feel that he's going somewhere with this.

"Unless you'd used any of the half-dozen times you'd been onboard the Nemesis to plant one of those fourteen thousand fusion bombs on board and blown it up." He smiles. "Did I mention that we're for hire?"
Ah, making a point, eh? Still, I doubt the Autobots would be down for cold-blooded murder... They're kind of dumb heroic that way.

"You did." Optimus Prime actually sounds sad. "But if you truly have no interest in continuing the war, I would strongly suggest that you both leave Earth."

Paul shakes his head. "Have you got any idea what India will pay for a working thorium reactor design? Besides, we need the energon. And I want to see what happens when Slipstream turns up to an anime convention."
I can imagine more than a few fanboys would need some... Alone time. Though if he gets Dakimakura with her image made up before-hand... He'd make a killing on sales. :V

Chu-tsche.

Arcee morphs her right hand into its gun configuration, and everyone hesitates. Agent Fowler comes out of it first, ushering the Darbys out of the room. Then Arcee speaks.
...That's one hell of a twitch reaction. :p Then again, I doubt she can really grit her teeth...

"Are you just treating this as a way to get rich? How dare you not take the war seriously!"

Slipstream doesn't change her limb configuration. But she does smile.
And that is a discreet flex. "I'm so much better than you, I don't even need my weapons."

"Why are you taking that so personally?"

"Decepticons have murdered two of my partners."
...You and thousands of other 'bots, Arcee.

Slipstream feels a pulse of confusion from Paul at the use of the term 'murder' to refer to killing an armed soldier during a war. And she thinks that he has a point.

"Huh. How about that. Do you know who else has lost partners since this war started?"
OH, god, this is gonna start a fight, isn't it?

Arcee pauses, perhaps realising that she's escalating too far but unable to restrain herself. "You, I hope."

Oh, that-!
:eek: Forget pressing a berserk button... Arcee just started headbutting Slipstream's like a jackhammer.

"EVERYONE! Literally everyone has lost people close to them! The fact that it happened to you does not make you special, and it doesn't make them special! My whole squad died one after the other starting with the Kaon Uprising and finishing at the Fall of Iacon and I-. How many do you think are still alive today who started the war-?"
On the other hand, this is probably a little cathartic for Slipstream to get out of her processors, and it's something Arcee needed to hear.

"One in every one thousand one hundred thirty seven." Optimus Prime steps between then, gently pushing Arcee's gun down. "At the last census taken before the launch of the Ark, one in one thousand one hundred thirty seven remained. By now, the figure is likely to be much lower. I imagine that the number on the Decepticon side was similar."

He takes a step closer.
Now, imagine Peter Cullen speaking this in a sad, tired voice, and you're hearing what I'm hearing right now... And it is glorious. x3

"Slipstream, I would gladly stop fighting tomorrow. All the survivors of the war could return to Cybertron and work together to rebuild our civilisation. A new High Council could be formed with Autobot and Decepticon alike, and we could settle our disputes peacefully. I would even abandon my title of Prime if that were necessary. I would gladly stop fighting, if it were not for the fact that I know Megatron will not. Whatever he once believed, he is fully committed to dominating cybertronian society through force. Do you disagree?"

Slipstream hesitates.
And there is the charisma that earned him the title of Prime. And in the end of the series, they ultimately accomplish that.

"Ah-?" … "No."

"And that is why we fight. Thank you for rescuing our human allies from Knockout. Now take your payment, and go."
Though I suspect he'll not forget their arguments. Such is the weight of command that he carries on his shoulders.

Somehow, I don't think this will be the last time Paul and Slipstream encounter team Prime. Though the next will likely occur after the end of the series, because Season Three of 'Transformers: Prime' was fast-paced and short... Still, even this brief encounter will probably have knock-on effects. Seeing a Human and a Decepticon working together willingly, as mercenaries beholden to neither side? That might plant the seeds of hope that others can set aside old hatreds... Which may come into play during the sequel series, 'Transformers: Robots in Disguise.'
 
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To be fair, she does have big... Boots. I always figured a lot of transformers are basically hollow, given the sheer amount of displacement involved in some transformations.

There's a comment by one of the show runners from back in the day (no clue where mind) that Cybertronians in this continuity are made of a living metal, with their transformations just compressing or expanding it with no weight change, which is also the reason they can do facial expressions.

I'd make some witty comment about physics getting kicked to death in an ally, but it's a science-fantasy setting, so it's whatever as far as I'm concerned.
 
"One in every one thousand one hundred thirty seven." Optimus Prime steps between then, gently pushing Arcee's gun down. "At the last census taken before the launch of the Ark, one in one thousand one hundred thirty seven remained. By now, the figure is likely to be much lower. I imagine that the number on the Decepticon side was similar."

He takes a step closer.

"Slipstream, I would gladly stop fighting tomorrow. All the survivors of the war could return to Cybertron and work together to rebuild our civilisation. A new High Council could be formed with Autobot and Decepticon alike, and we could settle our disputes peacefully. I would even abandon my title of Prime if that were necessary. I would gladly stop fighting, if it were not for the fact that I know Megatron will not. Whatever he once believed, he is fully committed to dominating cybertronian society through force. Do you disagree?"

Slipstream hesitates.

"Ah-?" … "No."

"And that is why we fight. Thank you for rescuing our human allies from Knock Out. Now take your payment, and go."
And this is why he is frikkin Optimus Prime. Really well done Mr. Zoat.
 
And yes, those figures are reasonably accurate. Cybertron was not a small planet, whatever the continuity. And a war lasting several million years with no way to replace troops will eventually whittle those populations down.

One interesting factiod that generally gets overlooked is that most of the depictions of Cybertron have it so that most of it's interior is built in layers right down to the core.
This means that even in those continuities where it's smaller than our moon, it's actual habitable area is many times that or Earth, as it's a matter of volume rather than surface area.

This also explains why the Autobots didn't bother trying to retrofit all their troops with flight capability, and one of the reasons the war dragged on so long.

The planet is honeycombed with tunnels and most of the fighting would effectively been happening indoors.

It also means that you have to take and hold territory in three dimensions, which is an order of magnitude harder than doing it in two.

Another fun planet fact is that a sphere of pure iron or other heavy metal a few hundred kilometers across would have about the same surface gravity as Earth, but the pull would drop off with height much faster, making it trivial to get to space.

The layers of lighter rock surrounding Earth's iron core increase Earth's overall gravitational pull, but, it also puts the surface much further from the densest part. This wouldn't be the case if planets were of uniform density, but during the molten stage of formation, the heaviest elements sink and push the lighter ones up.

What all that means is that even a planet smaller than the moon could have a surface gravity of one gee if it were mostly
heavy metals.

Optimus gets away with noble speeches that would sound cheesy coming from anyone else because you can tell he genuinely means every word of it.

There's a comment by one of the show runners from back in the day (no clue where mind) that Cybertronians in this continuity are made of a living metal, with their transformations just compressing or expanding it with no weight change, which is also the reason they can do facial expressions.

I'd make some witty comment about physics getting kicked to death in an ally, but it's a science-fantasy setting, so it's whatever as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, the inner form is made out of that grey "living" flexible metal that can heal and maintain itself while the outer plating that serves as both armor and alt-mode chassis is inert solid stuff.

Think of the outer plating as a bird's feathers.
 
Probably the same way Slipstream is standing without sinking into the floor.

"Null-rays impede electrical activity. Since humans are organic, exposure to its effects are far less dangerous to them than they would be to us."
…I take it he is unaware of how the human brain and nervous system work. A cessation of electrical activity is instant death. A disruption is effectively a stroke.

How easy to repair are you after getting hit by one of those?"
Significantly easier than you, meat bag.

"That quantity seems… Somewhat excessive for a single biosphere.
The amount is odd but not necessarily excessive. It isn't enough to kill every human, or remotely enough to destroy the biosphere. On the other hand it is far more than enough to wreck civilisation. And a ludicrously excessive amount for fighting a war that doesn't end with the "winner" back in the stone age.

Megatron used to command an army of billions.
Prime used to command an army of billions
-
"One in every one thousand one hundred thirty seven."
If they commanded billions and have about one-in-a-thousand left there should still be millions of them. Not dozens.

Possible that their population expanded immensely during the war as both sides attempted to outnumber the other via mass production.

"Slipstream, I would gladly stop fighting tomorrow. All the survivors of the war could return to Cybertron and work together to rebuild our civilisation. A new High Council could be formed with Autobot and Decepticon alike, and we could settle our disputes peacefully. I would even abandon my title of Prime if that were necessary. I would gladly stop fighting, if it were not for the fact that I know Megatron will not. Whatever he once believed, he is fully committed to dominating cybertronian society through force. Do you disagree?"
Optimus to a T.
 
I think one reason Optimus doesnt blow up the Nemesis is because of how few of them are left. He could have personal issues with killing so many like that who arent actively attacking him at that moment.

Although the logical argument is that they havent stopped yet and arent actively trying to figure out how to end the war.

Also at this point and time, Megatron is in a coma. So it would be the perfect time for peace talks brokered by Paul and Slipstream.
 
Also at this point and time, Megatron is in a coma. So it would be the perfect time for peace talks brokered by Paul and Slipstream.
Arcee wouldn't talk while Airachnid was in charge, Starscream can't be trusted ever and Soundwave wouldn't negotiate unless Megatron okayed it. Shockwave might, but I don't think he was ever in charge.
 
Starscream was technically in charge. He could maybe be persuaded with his self-interest to build a new society. Especially if he would gain a seat on the High Council. Of course he is Starscream, so even then his loyalty would be suspect.

Arcee isnt in charge to negotiate for the Autobots. The others could probably talk her around it. Besides that, Airachnid was only really in charge towards the end of season 1 when Megatron was absent, and Soundwave put her in her place.

Honestly even when Starscream was in charge Soundwave was the one really calling the shots. He would definitely be the one to deal with. And yes the fanatical loyalty to Megatron is an issue. But only if Megatron is still around. At the moment he is comatose. If someone were to assasinate him, negotiations with Soundwave could be opened up. Especially if Starscream were framed. Which wouldnt be hard given Staracream was trying to kill off Megatron. Maybe if some unaffiliated mercenaries were involved and "sold him out".
 
Starscream was technically in charge. He could maybe be persuaded with his self-interest to build a new society. Especially if he would gain a seat on the High Council. Of course he is Starscream, so even then his loyalty would be suspect.

Arcee isnt in charge to negotiate for the Autobots. The others could probably talk her around it. Besides that, Airachnid was only really in charge towards the end of season 1 when Megatron was absent, and Soundwave put her in her place.

Honestly even when Starscream was in charge Soundwave was the one really calling the shots. He would definitely be the one to deal with. And yes the fanatical loyalty to Megatron is an issue. But only if Megatron is still around. At the moment he is comatose. If someone were to assasinate him, negotiations with Soundwave could be opened up. Especially if Starscream were framed. Which wouldnt be hard given Staracream was trying to kill off Megatron. Maybe if some unaffiliated mercenaries were involved and "sold him out".

Though that does run the risk of them finding out he was assassinated and potentially stepping up their game in fighting and destroying their enemies.

Also it's possible that Soundwave may want to honor his leader by making sure his enemies are destroyed.
 
I think one reason Optimus doesnt blow up the Nemesis is because of how few of them are left. He could have personal issues with killing so many like that who arent actively attacking him at that moment.

Although the logical argument is that they havent stopped yet and arent actively trying to figure out how to end the war.

Also at this point and time, Megatron is in a coma. So it would be the perfect time for peace talks brokered by Paul and Slipstream.
Also because it's a mile or two above Earth's surface, something like 2.5 miles long, made out of super metal, and the resulting effects from a nuclear bomb going off inside it would involve very large pieces of wreckage impacting the planet to the equivalent of a couple hundred nuclear bombs impacting the Earth like a shotgun blast...

And that's ignoring the fact it would scatter Dark Energy all over the planet...
 
While I enjoy this little side diversion, it always reminds me that we almost got a Transformers/Justice League crossover.
I still remember when Spider-Man fought Megatron.

I was thinking earlier about a very long essay I read that someone wrote claiming that the Decepticons were the heroes of the Michael Bay films and the Autobots the villains. It made a lot of sense to me: Megatron tried to recover the device that allowed transformers to reproduce and that the Autobots launched into space. He was captured and tortured for decades, and even after he got out he focused on recovering it. The other Decepticons focused on helping him, fighting only when saving their species required it.

And I think that's why Prime's decision to go all 'if I can't have it then no one can' with the Allspark really struck me. Not only is that necessary for the health of Cybertron and the production of new transformers, that's also their afterlife. When a transformer dies their spark is reunified with the Allspark. And he chucked that into an asteroid field.
 
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Not to keep it from anyone. To keep it from Megatron. Megatron is a xenophobic fascist trying to conquer everything. He would use the All Spark to conquer other worlds and either enslave or exterminate other life.

Optimus prioritized the good of all before his own species. Because he is primarily Indigo or Blue over Orange like Savage or Paragon.

Plus launching it away was more of a depaying tactic given they had effectively lost the war on Cybertron.
 

Me too.

I also remember Circuit Breaker and the other Transformer superheroes, including the guy who really seems like Hank McCoy's long lost brother.

Circuit Breaker, the gal who came up with a technological cure for paralysis and used it to fight giant robots instead of you know, helping people not be paralyzed.

But it's not like the comic pretended she wasn't crazy.......
 
Arcee wouldn't talk while Airachnid was in charge, Starscream can't be trusted ever and Soundwave wouldn't negotiate unless Megatron okayed it. Shockwave might, but I don't think he was ever in charge.

Seems like he best option right now would be to try to peel off at least two or three Decepticons from Megatron's forces and plant seeds of doubt within their ranks. Also push Starscream to do even more backstabbing to get Megatron to exile or kill the bastard.
 
And there is the charisma that earned him the title of Prime. And in the end of the series, they ultimately accomplish that.
Of course, "season 2.5" and season 3 of Robots in Disguise established that
the new High Council were secretly Megatron-hardliner Decepticons working to brainwash the rest of the planet.

There's a comment by one of the show runners from back in the day (no clue where mind) that Cybertronians in this continuity are made of a living metal, with their transformations just compressing or expanding it with no weight change, which is also the reason they can do facial expressions.

I'd make some witty comment about physics getting kicked to death in an ally, but it's a science-fantasy setting, so it's whatever as far as I'm concerned.

"Scale in Transformers is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed."

Possible that their population expanded immensely during the war as both sides attempted to outnumber the other via mass production.

I'm not sure it ever comes up in the "Aligned continuity" (most importantly, Prime and RID), but the main recent comics continuity established the "Made To Order" soldiers, "constructed cold" Transformers that were built, had a Spark inserted, basic knowledge dumped in, and sent to war.

Given the Vehicons are all but identical (they have two different alt modes depending on the individual, "car" and "jet"), it can be easily inferred they're all MTOs.

I think one reason Optimus doesnt blow up the Nemesis is because of how few of them are left. He could have personal issues with killing so many like that who arent actively attacking him at that moment.
Even if you discount the Vehicons, bombing the Nemesis would be literally killing half of the known surviving Cybertronians, so yeah, Optimus would probably be willing to try anything and everything possible before resorting to that.

Not to mention one other thing: while it doesn't explicitly come up in the cartoon - it does in the loosely aligned (heh) novels and is heavily implied, although not outright stated/named, in "Flying Mind" - Nemesis isn't actually a ship like the Ark, Axalon, or Darksyde, it's a Cybertronian. It's Trypticon, mode-locked in ship mode; a space-bridge accident basically lobotomized him, and Megatron decided he was more useful to the cause not being repaired and instead left as a battleship.
 
Not to mention one other thing: while it doesn't explicitly come up in the cartoon - it does in the loosely aligned (heh) novels and is heavily implied, although not outright stated/named, in "Flying Mind" - Nemesis isn't actually a ship like the Ark, Axalon, or Darksyde, it's a Cybertronian. It's Trypticon, mode-locked in ship mode; a space-bridge accident basically lobotomized him, and Megatron decided he was more useful to the cause not being repaired and instead left as a battleship.
It was pretty clear in the game.
 
To be fair, she does have big... Boots. I always figured a lot of transformers are basically hollow, given the sheer amount of displacement involved in some transformations. Would put them in line with their toys, these days. :D

When QuantumBranching did a map/writeup cover of the world of G1 Transformers, he explained it as the Cybertronians shifting their mass into a pocket dimension, and that looking too closely at it will make humans a bit uncomfortable.

(I am admittedly not a TF fan, but I thought that was a pretty cool idea.)

Although originally incapable of transforming, all Cybertronians nowadays are now known as Transformers. It is no simple trick. Autobot and Decepticon transformation isn't a matter of bits and pieces reshuffling, a Rubix cube being shuffled, or an elaborate form of contortionism. An Autobot technology developed millions of years ago and not duplicated by the Decepticons until much later, transformation is closer to a transition between quantum states, and involves quite a bit of Transformer mass existing at any time in another dimension, in a dispersed "potential" condition. When a human sees a Transformer change, he or she is not seeing metal moving and shifting place as much as they are seeing dimensions shift. (Looking at a transformation too closely in the wrong place has been known to cause intense nausea in humans, and outright seizures in species with more spacially sophisticated sensory systems). The high energy costs often mean that a Transformer gets stuck in one form or another when they run too low on energy.

When in one form, the "potential" other form can be widely modified, allowing Transformers to adopt to a wide variety of conditions (and, say, duplicate the forms of terrestrial machines to better blend in). Minor cosmetic changes are fairly easy, and many Autobots and Decepticons change their color patterns and some of their physical accessories at will the way humans will change from one set of clothes to another. Some Transformers have three or more forms, while others can combine into larger collectives. Some carrier and spaceship-form Transformers can extend their interiors partially into higher space, allowing them to carry rather more cargo than would seem possible from their exterior forms alone. Spaceship models are capable of reaching most parts of the Solar system under their own power.
 

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