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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

No, whatever gave you the impression that Freeman is the second best Lantern with his ring in Earth 10?

The second best lantern would be Sentinel.

Freeman had his ring for a day or two and in the two fights he had had since then, he's lost both of them.



I think that while she adopted him he may still live with the Kents, since Clark was more accepting of him.



You're really not seeing how what you described wouldn't really work, are you?

Freeman has spent two years on Earrth 10 so he may have developed a soul.

Also, as Zoat mentioned, it would take him at least a week to teach him some techniques to stop him from going crazy.

They may not have a week before more corrupted people start pouring in.

And even if they had a week Freeman has basically zero combat experience except for two fights which he lost.

If he goes up against the corrupted people then he will most likely be killed unless everyone there protects him, since he doesn't know any techniques, has no combat experience and his greatest contribution to the fight would basically be him becoming a powerful meat shield to protect those that can actually do something.

And Paul's magic charms would only protect him from people casting magic on him.

Most of the corrupted people seem like the type that like to punch or tear people to death instead of casting spells, so those charms may as well be useless.

Freeman can't help him here.


Paul in his second day in earth 16 was already the best lantern when it came to versatility.

Meta knowledge of lantern combat techniques and an AI to pull them off go a LONG way, Sentinel has no AI and no meta knowledge, he has no FTL or near FTL strategic movement, ergo by default the local Paul would be the second best lantern on earth. Give him cold beam tech and purple beam designs so he can make his own and he is already above 99.6% of the entire Nazi roster, his inexperience is mitigated if you keep him as rear long range support or a healer. Who can Paul trust to get him on his feet if he gets overwhelmed and defeated by the demons? Certainly not the Nazis.

Paul is literally operating without any kind of support he can trust, the moment he goes down to anything including "friendly fire" he is absolutely fucked.

Two years isn't enough to have a soul, when that plot element happened it was more than clear it would take several years for Paul to develop a soul without assistance. A God could make one for him, or he could develop one if he was constantly around high magic environments, but that isn't the case for Paul Freeman, not by a long shot.


There is only one person Paul can somewhat trust in earth 10 and its incredible that he isn't even considering the point that he is utterly fucked if he goes down, he is working with the Nazis in good faith and trusting them so much even though he should know they would turn him on a dime if he was left at their mercy.
 
Paul in his second day in earth 16 was already the best lantern when it came to versatility.

Meta knowledge of lantern combat techniques and an AI to pull them off go a LONG way, Sentinel has no AI and no meta knowledge, he has no FTL or near FTL strategic movement, ergo by default the local Paul would be the second best lantern on earth. Give him cold beam tech and purple beam designs so he can make his own and he is already above 99.6% of the entire Nazi roster, his inexperience is mitigated if you keep him as rear long range support or a healer. Who can Paul trust to get him on his feet if he gets overwhelmed and defeated by the demons? Certainly not the Nazis.

Paul is literally operating without any kind of support he can trust, the moment he goes down to anything including "friendly fire" he is absolutely fucked.

Two years isn't enough to have a soul, when that plot element happened it was more than clear it would take several years for Paul to develop a soul without assistance. A God could make one for him, or he could develop one if he was constantly around high magic environments, but that isn't the case for Paul Freeman, not by a long shot.


There is only one person Paul can somewhat trust in earth 10 and its incredible that he isn't even considering the point that he is utterly fucked if he goes down, he is working with the Nazis in good faith and trusting them so much even though he should know they would turn him on a dime if he was left at their mercy.

Except as I mentioned in my previous post, they don't have much time and it really wouldn't be worth the effort to spend this time training him since his contribution to the fight would be minimal at best.

And oddly enough, Paul can trust the Nazis since they know he's working with Overman, a highly respected figure in their society, so they may think he's trustworthy or at least don't want to piss off Overman, and he is helping them fight the demon incursions in their territory, so they really have no reason to betray him.
 
I mean who is he to trust? The Nazis or the guy that is a literal copy of him with his same overall morals and values?

It shouldn't even be a question.
You mean, assume that the Paul in this universe is a good guy because he doesn't get along with nazis? Evil Pauls exist. Heck villain Pauls exist.
 
You mean, assume that the Paul in this universe is a good guy because he doesn't get along with nazis? Evil Pauls exist. Heck villain Pauls exist.
Does this Paul grok that? The Mindrape!Paul with the Sally Sonic formula was one of the beneficiaries of the data swap during the Crisis of Infinite Pauls.
 
Does this Paul grok that? The Mindrape!Paul with the Sally Sonic formula was one of the beneficiaries of the data swap during the Crisis of Infinite Pauls.
I mean getting tortured can change someones perspective as much as any formula.

This all leaves out how paul freeman would be more vulnerable to possession by demons, due to having no latent resistance to magic.
 
We don't actually know anything about how effective or not Sentinel is, and your argument just makes a shitload of sweeping generalizations about how effective a Paul can be right out of the gate despite the fact Freeman got his ass handed to him twice.

Like, unless you think he immediately picked a fight with the Nazis again after Uncle Sam's crew busted him out . . . Do you really not think he did any training at all even in secret before the second loss?
 
I mean getting tortured can change someones perspective as much as any formula.

This all leaves out how paul freeman would be more vulnerable to possession by demons, due to having no latent resistance to magic.


Solved by OL necklace and just staying at a distance as support.

The points against it are fairly weak considering the effort it would take to recall the orange ring and making a new lantern. We know Paul can sort out both things in literal minutes.

Minutes of effort for a huge payoff to shore up his position and the position of one of the few locals he can somewhat trust?

It's a no brainer.

Then again Paul is a white guy under casual observation so he has less reasons than most to expect the Nazis to betray him at the first opportunity, but that will last as long as the first genetic scan results come out and then he is an impure mutt not worthy of the powers he has.


Paul is one knockout away from getting absolutely fucked, one would think he would be competent enough to prepare for such eventualities.
 
That can mostly be blamed on the rationing from two World Wars (mainly the second being so close to the first) that turned Britain's national palate into what it has since become. So, blame the Germans and the French (sort of, it's flipping complicated).

Toast sandwiches date to at least 1861. World War rationing is not to blame.
 
Speaking of that one, I once read a fic in which that version replaces the Zeus from Percy Jackson and acts the way he'd usually act towards his Hera, with love and care.
Ironically, actually possible in the PJ universe if the Disney 'aspect' became the version of Zeus more people associate with him than the actual mythological version of him.
 
Krummkreuz (part 11)
16th September 2012
17:32 GMT -4


"It was Hippolyta."

Egeria nods. "When she did not return, we assumed that she had died. I would thank you for the closure your news brought were it not for the fact that her having a daughter here will simply maintain those feelings."

"I mean, I only recently arrived myself. I don't know for certain that she's dead."

But this world doesn't use magic. Which means that the human/kryptonian technology used in their databases isn't warded.

"Hang on-. You're right, it's an upset. Let me see if I can find out for certain one way or the other."

Ring, access American and German databases. Allied superheroes from the Second World War. What happened to Hippolyta?

Accessing. Archival images available.

I take a hologram projector out of subspace and activate it, displaying the images. Allied propaganda pictures which were widely distributed at the time appear to have survived well enough despite the book burning. A picture of a fairly familiar Justice Society line-up is most popular in modern publications, with Queen Hippolyta standing next to Ted Grant. The German intelligence file on her is fairly limited, mostly relating to public displays of her abilities. A few mission reports, and…

"Reports from near the end of the war are fairly chaotic. The Germans think she died during the Battle of New York, but a lot of the weapons they used didn't leave much in the way of remains and they never confirmed it. There are a few people around who might remember in more detail, but the Americans weren't interested in providing information to the people occupying their country and the Germans were spread too thin to track down everyone." I shrug. "I'm sorry."

"She never had a daughter. After three thousand years, the idea of having anyone else as queen…"

I nod. "I expected as much. It would probably be the same on my Themyscira. Before Diana, when they told the woman who was technically Crown Princess that she was first in line to the throne, she's supposed to have said 'Are you sure?'"

Egeria takes a moment to study the image.

"Those were her companions?"

I nod. "Yes. Other warriors with more than human abilities. Unfortunately, the Germans had far better weapons, and… Overman."

"Yes. We are aware of him. And what his people did with the tools they took from his birth-pod."

"To be fair, they did what they could to hide that stuff from him."

"That they did it is enough."

I hold my hands up. "I'm not trying to defend the Nazis. Just… Him, personally. He was an adolescent, fighting for his country. He wasn't really in any position to reflect on what happens and I know that he bitterly regrets it now. I'd rather that he hadn't fought -the alternate version of my original home nation was on the losing side- but there's not much we can do about it now."

"No, I suppose not." She sighs thoughtfully. "I'm not sure what I would do if we knew who killed her. Revenge seems… Pointless."

"It usually is. Unless you're going somewhere with it. But, ah… That does lead on to the other thing I wanted to sound you out about."

"Yes?"

"Though, first. Do you want me to repair your eye?"

"I was blinded by a demon's claw. Magic cannot heal the wound."

"My rings aren't magic. Yes, I know that it looks similar and Greeks traditionally didn't distinguish between extreme feats of skill and pure magic, but it's technically not. Also, I've seen demon-inflicted wounds before and I strongly suspect that sufficiently sophisticated magic could heal it."

"What are you? I have seen the Green Lantern, and if you are speaking the truth then your abilities far outstrip his."

They've seen..?

"As I understand it, his ring was damaged a few centuries ago when its creators were betrayed by the one wielding it. Mine are-." I glance at Larfleeze's old ring. "Well, one of them is in better repair." I shrug. "If you want a demonstration I can cut my right arm off and reattach it."

Egeria leans forward slightly. "You say that you are an Amazon."

"I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I'm not fully acculturated."

"What gods do you worship?"

"I pay due homage to the Gods of Olympus, naturally. I have gods that I am closer to than others, if that's what you mean."

"Name them."

"Hephaestus and Ploutos. Hades." I raise my hands defensively. "I know that a lot of versions of him aren't particularly nice, but the one from my world is a good person. Thoroughly committed to being a good king to the dead."

"Your people are fortunate."

I nod. "I know. He already intervened on my behalf with another pantheon that tried to poach me the first time I died."

"Is he your particular patron?"

"Ah… No. That would be Eris."

And the tension is back at once. Egeria straightens slightly, leaning forward in her seat so that she can leap into action. Philippus's hand returns to the pommel of her sword, while New Wonder Woman's leans slightly so that she can leap at me should the need arise.

"Eris sent you here?"

"No, Eris trusts me to provide her with entertainment without needing to intervene personally. I search for status quos that I find iniquitous and change them, causing havoc with established social systems. My job here… Well, do you want anything from me?"

"I want to know what 'minor requests' you intend to make before I indebt us to you."

"Horrible as the Nazi World Order is, it's still better than how things are on the version of Earth that this Diana came from. We're trying to either fix that, or at least cut it off from other Earths like this one. And the Nazis are almost wholly ignorant of magic. I certainly don't expect you to feel any camaraderie with them, but an invasion of possessed demigods would be bad for you as well, since they would actually have some idea of how to get through your wards."

"Sound reasoning. And in return?"

"What do you want?" I shrug. "Amazons on my Earth couldn't heal certain types of long-term injury. Fully restoring them was one of the first things I did after gaining citizenship. I remember… Seeing an opinion piece years ago which claimed that if everyone on Earth became unageing, people still wouldn't usually live past eight hundred due to disease and injury. I've restored limbs, fingers, eyes, ears-. And I can use this ring to enable one woman to make another pregnant; that's been increasingly popular."

One woman standing behind Egeria stands a little straighter.

"There's little I can't do with sufficient motivation, and my concern is more about time than ability. So." I shrug again. "What is it that you want?"
 
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Paul is doing a pretty good job of making peaceful contact with the Amazons of Earth 10. Hopefully nothing happens to ruin that.

I certainly don't expect you to feel any camaraderie with them, but a invasion of possessed demigods would be bad for you as well, since they would actually have some idea of how to get through your wards.
That should say 'an'.
 
Mr Zoat, I just read an old Word of God that the Renegade will meet Euanthe after he overthrows the British government and puts a Red Lantern in charge. Since the latter has happened, will we see Euanthe in the Renegade timeline?
I'd forgotten about that. Probably not. The Renegade doesn't have an easy way to heal her.
Speaking of Renegade do we know anything The Spider (Harold Near) has done since Grayven recruited him?
He'll reappear at some point, but he's been busy in the UK.
 
I mean, I only recently arrived myself. I don't know for certain that she's dead."

But this world doesn't use magic. Which means that the human/kryptonian technology used in their databases isn't warded.

Though their advanced tech may have some defences.

What are you? I have seen the Green Lantern, and if you are speaking the truth then your abilities far outstrip his."

They've seen..?

They may be talking about Alan Scott, who they could have met, or they've scryed and saw Sentinel.

"I pay due homage to the Gods of Olympus, naturally. I have gods that I am closer to than others, if that's what you mean."

"Name them."

"Hephaestus and Ploutos. Hades." I raise my hands defensively. "I know that a lot of versions of him aren't particularly nice, but the one from my world is a good person. Thoroughly committed to being a good king to the dead

Not starting with Eris?

Understandable.

Is he your particular patron?"

"Ah… No. That would be Eris."

And the tension is back at once. Egeria straightens slightly, leaning forward in her seat so that she can leap into action. Philippus's hand returns to the pommel of her sword, while New Wonder Woman's leans slightly so that she can leap at me should the need arise.

"Eris sent you here

There's the suspicion.
 
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That still doesn't explain Spotted Dick, Toad in the Hole or fish pies that have the heads sticking out of the top.
Beer. Beer explains a lot of stuff like that (I mean, naming a dessert after a social disease sounds like something a drunk person would do).

Rhpugh their advanced tech may have some defences.
Is 'rhpugh' meant to be 'though,' or is this some word that I'm unfamiliar with?
 
I'd forgotten about that. Probably not. The Renegade doesn't have an easy way to heal her.
Niko Parrish has the angel wings now; maybe with sufficient training she could do it. Renegade also stole the tears of a saint or something from the Alexins to heal Captain Marvel after Ishmael Gregor/Sabbac showed up in his timeline.

Renegade not doing anything about Hell is something I've talked about for a while, but it seems like an obvious metaphysical obstacle to his plans for humanity. I'd imagine he'd want to set up his own afterlife (directly or through intermediaries) with a New God of the Dead or something.
 
Beer. Beer explains a lot of stuff like that (I mean, naming a dessert after a social disease sounds like something a drunk person would do).


Is 'rhpugh' meant to be 'though,' or is this some word that I'm unfamiliar with?

Thanks, I corrected it.

Niko Parrish has the angel wings now; maybe with sufficient training she could do it. Renegade also stole the tears of a saint or something from the Alexins to heal Captain Marvel after Ishmael Gregor/Sabbac showed up in his timeline.

Renegade may have honestly forgotten about the dryad he saw.

Renegade not doing anything about Hell is something I've talked about for a while, but it seems like an obvious metaphysical obstacle to his plans for humanity. I'd imagine he'd want to set up his own afterlife (directly or through intermediaries) with a New God of the Dead or something

Zoat did mention that in the future, Renegade will conclude that Hell is worthless, so he begins raiding it.
 
Zoat did mention that in the future, Renegade will conclude that Hell is worthless, so he begins raiding it.
He specifically called it a Harrowing, meaning the Renegade's going to do to Hell what the Sheeda do to other time periods. That's going to be bloody yet awesome when it finally happens.
 
16th September 2012
17:32 GMT -4


"It was Hippolyta."

Egeria nods. "When she did not return, we assumed that she had died. I would thank you for the closure your news brought were it not for the fact that her having a daughter here will simply maintain those feelings."
Aw, we skipped the meat of the exposition? Still, at around fifteen minutes long - look at the timestamps - I suspect we'd have been bored out of our gourds fairly quickly... Though it's easy enough to grasp the details from context. Hippolyta went out as Wonder Woman, fought in the war... And presumably died.

"I mean, I only recently arrived myself. I don't know for certain that she's dead."

But this world doesn't use magic. Which means that the human/kryptonian technology used in their databases isn't warded.
:sneaky: Ooh, an entire network of databases, ripe for the plundering. Time to execute [DATA.Nom.Nom.Nom]... :p

"Hang on-. You're right, it's an upset. Let me see if I can find out for certain one way or the other."

Ring, access American and German databases. Allied superheroes from the Second World War. What happened to Hippolyta?

Accessing. Archival images available.
Yay for obsessive record-keeping and history buffs.

I take a hologram projector out of subspace and activate it, displaying the images. Allied propaganda pictures which were widely distributed at the time appear to have survived well enough despite the book burning. A picture a fairly familiar Justice Society line-up is most popular in modern publications, with Queen Hippolyta standing next to Ted Grant. The German intelligence file on her is fairly limited, mostly relating to public displays of her abilities. A few mission reports, and…
Presumably the Americans destroyed what records of American superheroes they could when it looked like the Nazis were going to win.

"Reports from near the end of the war are fairly chaotic. The Germans think she died during the Battle of New York, but a lot of the weapons they used didn't leave much in the way of remains and they never confirmed it. There are a few people around who might remember in more detail, but the Americans weren't interested in providing information to the people occupying their country and the Germans were spread too thin to track down everyone." I shrug. "I'm sorry."
Though if she's still alive... Where has she been? Why wouldn't she try to return home? :( No, more likely she is dead...

"She never had a daughter. After three thousand years, the idea of having anyone else as queen…"

I nod. "I expected as much. It would probably be the same on my Themyscira. Before Diana, when they told the woman who was technically Crown Princess that she was first in line to the throne, she's supposed to have said 'Are you sure?'"
...I take it that's something concerning Hippolyta, after Queen Ortera's death?

Egeria takes a moment to study the image.

"Those were her companions?"
"What a... Motley band. They must be Heroes. No-one else would dress so oddly."

I nod. "Yes. Other warriors with more than human abilities. Unfortunately, the Germans had far better weapons, and… Overman."

"Yes. We are aware of him. And what his people did with the tools his people took from his birth-pod."
Well, what's done is done...

"To be fair, they did what they could to hide that stuff from him."

"That they did it is enough."
True. The thing is, would you blame a soldier for the actions and orders of his rulers?

I hold my hands up. "I'm not trying to defend the Nazis. Just… Him, personally. He was an adolescent, fighting for his country. He wasn't really in nay position to reflect on what happens and I know that he bitterly regrets it now. I'd rather than he hadn't fought -the alternate version of my original home nation was on the losing side- but there's not much we can do about it now."

"No, I suppose not." She sighs thoughtfully. "I'm not sure what I would do if we knew who killed her. Revenge seems… Pointless."
Especially since whoever pulled the trigger of that weapon (I'm assuming something akin to a clean nuke...) is probably long dead, or at least so old that death would be a mercy.

"It usually is. Unless you're going somewhere with it. But, ah… That does lead on to the other thing I wanted to sound you out about."

"Yes?"
Ah, yes... The 'get help to fight a demonic invasion' bit of his visit. Admittedly, the Amazons have plenty of experience with that sort of thing.

"Though, first. Do you want me to repair your eye?"

"I was blinded by a demon's claw. Magic cannot heal the wound."
Wounds suffered holding Doom's Doorway shut. Basically, a doorway into the deepest, wildest part of the Underworld. And home to some seriously evil - or mad - creatures.

"My rings aren't magic. Yes, I know that it looks similar and Greeks traditionally didn't distinguish between extreme feats of skill and pure magic, but it's technically not. Also, I've seen demon-inflicted wounds before and I strongly suspect that sufficiently sophisticated magic could heal it."

"What are you? I have seen the Green Lantern, and if you are speaking the truth then your abilities far outstrip his."
So, I'm guessing they have the ability to receive transmissions, and decode them. Probably watching news coverage of Reichmen operations.

They've seen..?

"As I understand it, his ring was damaged a few centuries ago when its creators were betrayed by the one wielding it. Mine are-." I glance at Larfleeze's old ring. "Well, one of them is in better repair." I shrug. "If you want a demonstration I can cut my right arm off and reattach it."
Let's not, blood is always hard to clean off the floors.

Egeria leans forward slightly. "You say that you are an Amazon."

"I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I'm not fully acculturated."
True. He's hardly 'gone native'...

"What gods do you worship?"

"I pay due homage to the Gods of Olympus, naturally. I have gods that I am closer to than others, if that's what you mean."
Indeed, quite the working relationship with some... And antagonising others. I'm sure that won't seem out of the ordinary, given the typical Greek Hero.

"Name them."

"Hephaestus and Ploutos. Hades." I raise my hands defensively. "I know that a lot of versions of him aren't particularly nice, but the one from my world is a good person. Thoroughly committed to being a good king to the dead."
And a good husband, too. Can't forget that!

"Your people are fortunate."

I nod. "I know. He already intervened on my behalf with another pantheon that tried to poach me the first time I died."
And that would have been a sight. Hades striding up to the gates of the Silver City in full war panoply, shield and bident in hand, demanding the return of one of his worshippers?

"Is he your particular patron?"

"Ah… No. That would be Eris."
...Oh, boy. Now the Local Eris will be laughing her ass off, if she's seeing this.

And the tension is back at once. Egeria straightens slightly, leaning forward in her seat so that she can leap into action. Philippus's hand returns to the pommel of her sword, while New Wonder Woman's leans slightly so that she can leap at me should the need arise.

"Eris sent you here?"
As if. She can barely even see him. Which vexes her no end. The best entertainment she's had in centuries, and she has to actually pay attention to see if he's around? How ironically chaotic...

"No, Eris trusts me to provide her with entertainment without needing to intervene personally. I search for status quos that I find iniquitous and change them, causing havoc with established social systems. My job here… Well, do you want anything from me?"

"I want to know what 'minor requests' you intend to make before I indebt us to you."
And no doubt see if he considers them 'iniquitous'? That would be at the forefront of my mind, certainly...

"Horrible as the Nazi World Order is, it's still better than how things are on the version of Earth that this Diana came from. We're trying to either fix that, or at least cut it off from other Earths like this one. And the Nazis are almost wholly ignorant of magic. I certainly don't expect you to feel any camaraderie with them, but a invasion of possessed demigods would be bad for you as well, since they would actually have some idea of how to get through your wards."

"Sound reasoning. And in return?"
Not quite 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'... More 'The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, but for now, we fight together.'

"What do you want?" I shrug. "Amazons on my Earth couldn't heal certain types of long-term injury. Fully restoring them was one of the first things I did after gaining citizenship. I remember… Seeing an opinion piece years ago which claimed that if everyone on Earth became unageing, people still wouldn't usually live past eight hundred due to disease and injury. I've restored limbs, fingers, eyes, ears-. And I can use this ring to enable one woman to make another pregnant; that's been increasingly popular."
...And with that last thing, he just got a lot more popular. At least he phrased it more clearly.

One woman standing behind Egeria stands a little straighter.

"There's little I can't do with sufficient motivation, and my concern is more about time than ability. So." I shrug again. "What is it that you want?"
Heh, I see one possible taker already. Methinks if he hangs out for a bit, he'll likely have a queue of couples awaiting his services.

Ah, OL. Knocking even an equitable status quo a little off-kilter just by being yourself... And the classic question returns. 'What do they want?', Indeed. I foresee the Archon and her councillors having very intense discussion of OL and his offers. Beware Greeks bearing Gifts? Better watch out for the Orange Man, too.

A picture a fairly familiar Justice Society line-up
A picture of a fairly familiar Justice Society line-up
And what his people did with the tools his people took from his birth-pod."
The repetition feels a little awkward. Maybe 'the tools they took'?
He wasn't really in nay position to reflect
He wasn't really in any position to reflect

Zoat always belonged here in QQ He's stealth turned the amazons into futas and I just noticed.
;) Nothing so crass (or fun,) alas. It was more like ring-aided artificial insemination. Albeit using two eggs instead of egg and semen... Still, the ladies involved are apparently quite happy with their little ones... What was it they were calling them, again? The Pavleia or similar?
 
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