Ngamer11
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Mr Zoat said that the half dead body thing is just a metaphor in this version.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- self insert young justice
Vaermina
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Darko
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This isn't the MCU version.
There hasn't been an MCU version yet, aside from some mentions by Zoat about what's happening.
Radix
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Oh what has he said? I must habe missed that.
Mr Zoat
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5th March 2011
Earth's Orangest Hero
13th June 2011
Earth's Orangest Hero
22nd August 2011
Authority (supplementary, Earth's Mightiest Lantern)
_The_Bomb
Know what you're doing yet?
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_The_Bomb
Know what you're doing yet?
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Oh, thank you Zoat! I guess the Hela stuff hasn't happened on screen. Shame, that sounds like it'd be really interesting.
Stsword
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Actually while Zoat is of course free to not include that since it was never shown in the cartoon, but in the comics the Norn Stones are in fact not of Asgardian manufacture.
They're Celestial.
So if Zoat is using that then he's using artifacts made by Space Gods to empower his artifact made by Aliens Who Might As Well Be Gods. Which I find quite appropriate.
Which reminds me, in the X-Men 92 continuation comic of the cartoon, the Celestials are the step of evolution after mutants (the Celestials evolved from the M'Krann as in the M'Krann Crystal), which is why a rogue Celestial was coming to wipe out Earth before humans evolve into New Celestials. To fight him they use the Darkhold to turn everyone into a mutant. So Earth had 5.453 billion mutants to protect it.
Looking at how MGH works, it would seem that a superhuman made into a mutant would just become more powerful, maybe gain new power thematic to what they already have. So like mutant Spider-Man would probably be faster, stronger, maybe gain organic webbing or telepathic spider communication, that sort of thing.
So what mutant power should X-Men Paul get in that hypothetical?
Windona
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Gotta say "I'm dating Hela" has probably stopped a lot of people in their tracks. Probably even Loki
...was Paul just being nice to Janet and Janet played as if it was flirting because Hank was ignoring her too much for his work?
Still, Paul the multiversal matchmaker
...was Paul just being nice to Janet and Janet played as if it was flirting because Hank was ignoring her too much for his work?
Still, Paul the multiversal matchmaker
Darko
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I doubt it.
He and Hela seemed to have started dating after the final battle with Loki, so Loki may be too busy being snake food to know about it.
Paul is terrible with women so it's possible that he did some nice things for her but was unaware that they would seem to have a romantic nature, so people mistook it for him flirting with her.
Duke Long
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How does Thor being a Norse god work in Marvel? I'm only really familiar with the MCU and it doesn't come up as far as I can remember. Is there a resurgence of faith due to his existence being proven, or is there no difference because people know he's just an alien, and not particularly inclined to helping worshippers?
Mr Zoat
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The series was very careful to refer to him as 'the Prince of Thunder'.
Stsword
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In Marvel 2099 The Church of Thor was a major thing.
But generally, and I'd say pretty realistically, there are people who believe him and people who don't.
I imagine more people believe when things like Asgard becoming a city in the state of OK happen.
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Ngamer11
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That should say 'Anna'.
_The_Bomb
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I'm sorry what?
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
The traditional kind, not the poly kind.
Windona
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Yeah, kinda what I meant by the 'Paul was nice' bit. Paul did nice things, and Janet might have played it up a bit ala that episode with Captain Mar-vell.
Makes perfect sense. It would also give Hank a more solid reason to be suspicious.
False Dawn (part 2)
Mr Zoat
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8th November 2012
13:08 GMT
I adjust my bobble hat as Dr. Balewa leads the way across Hyde Park. Not a place I expected to ever come with a member of the Justice League, but I suppose he wasn't a member at the time. I'm dressed in clothing that's… More like my wardrobe from Earth Prime than anything I've worn since getting here, including a slightly ratty bomber jacket with a logo that looks a little like a something a rock band might use while being dissimilar enough to avoid incurring licensing fees. Not a perfect replica of the jacket I had handed down from my cousin Peter, which kept me warm through…
I honestly can't remember if it was Primary School or Secondary School. Huh.
Anyway, I'm dressed like a British person during winter, rather than a superhero or model… Okay, fine, idiosyncratically attired rich lunatic, like I normally am. Dr. Balewa usually dresses down, but for this trip he's left his kaftan on the Watchtower in favour of a long, puffy, bright red coat. It doesn't do much in the way of camouflage, but it's ridiculous enough that no one is going to think he's a superhero.
Chavy-ridiculous, not normal-superhero-clothing ridiculous.
Feel a bit awkward about Alan being here. Huh. I wonder. If he'd had his renovated ring at the time, would I have invited him? Yes, yes of course I would. Even if it might have affected his ability to join the League later -and I know how much he likes being part of the League- I would have wanted him with me.
"If he's been here all along then I'm going to be annoyed with myself."
"Part of him."
I frown, but if he's going to do the whole cryptic wizard thing… I suppose that he's earned that right. Someone his age is going to sound cryptic to someone my age even if they try and speak as plainly as possible, and that goes double for an actual wizard.
Scanning our surroundings for a moment I spot Alan, who appears to have decided that his best cover involves dressing like a stereotypical American tourist. Half his clothing has an American flag on it somewhere, and the other half appears to have been purchased from a London-themed market stall. The camera around his neck is a little incongruous, except he spent plenty of time around professional photographers and can probably talk about it in enough detail to cover himself if someone asked about it.
And standing next to him-. No. No, that's not-.
"Nommo?"
"You know how he was created?"
"Roughly."
"Consider the situation. John Constantine has inherited the power of a Lord of Order, but he cannot handle it. You hev seen John Quinn-."
"The use of his mother's maiden name was a bit obvious. And the fact that he looks like an idealised John Constantine. So that's what he is? It's a lot less worry… Ing…"
"Do you see the problem?"
"Creating a golem like that involves removing memories. So if he removed… What, every heroic memory and… Thought? Then he'd be-." What? "Don't tell me the thing I've been calling The Demon Constantine is actual-John?"
"No. Though knowing Constantine as I do, it does not sound beyond him. According to the Demon, he used a duplicate of himself thet he had already created."
"From before he created the Demon, or after?"
"Thet, the Demon did not know."
"Oh, come on. You told me that you knew enough to find John."
"Thet is why we are here. The Demon wishes to use the echoes of John's actions, here and in other places, to become more like him. Since John Constantine is not inclined to help mass murderers, I felt thet permitting this was in the interest of Earth."
"Always up for a bit of redemption. Why does he want to become more like John?"
"Why did you want to regain your memories after the second time you died?"
"Fair-. No, wait. I wouldn't have created a golem like that in the first place. For me it was like curing Alzheimer's, but the Demon never had those memories."
"No, but he had a memory of having those memories." Dr. Balewa looks away, probably reaching for an appropriate metaphor. "He would hev thought, but they would not make sense because the experiences thet would-."
"Like Mister Cairo from Phantom Twenty Forty."
"You cannot make me feel older than I do already."
Think I just made myself feel old.
"He was an intelligent computer program created from the mind of a widower to find out what caused the particularly nasty car crash that killed his wife. Unfortunately, he got damaged before being completed and was just left with an obsessive desire to learn everything. Once he finally learned the thing he was originally created to learn he returned to his creator and tried merging with him."
"Tried, and failed, then."
"By that point in their lives they were just too different to merge, even though they both wanted to. The widower got the information he wanted and could carry on with his life, but the infomorph was stuck knowing that its whole purpose was already fulfilled. The Demon Constantine's purpose was to go to Hell in John's place, which he did. The only good memory he has was Kathryn Ryan, and that didn't-. He remembers the relationship, but it wouldn't really have context."
I frown at him.
"And we can't just telepathically dub stuff over because his body is a construct of demon magic and so he doesn't literally have a brain."
Dr. Balewa smiles. "Thet was the first thing you thought of, wasn't it?"
"Yes, of c-." I'm getting distracted again. "But returning to the subject?"
"The Demon claimed thet John Quinn is keeping John Constantine in the Tower of Fate, using him to maintain control of the link to Order and Chaos."
"Wouldn't you be able to detect him using that much power? Or not just you, I mean, wouldn't it be obvious?"
"If he were using it all of the time, yes, certainly. If he were simply doing what Nabu did and drawing what he needed, no."
"Right then. So we're fighting Nabu Two. That explains Hyde Park."
"Thet would not be wise. While I hev not seen it, if John put enough of himself into John Quinn to use Order and Chaos, he would be far more powerful than Nabu was. And John was always more cunning than Nabu. A direct confrontation…"
He shakes his head. And he's right. The potential for collateral damage alone-.
"But we're freeing John Constantine and not talking to John Quinn about it in advance?"
"I do not share the optimism of some other League members. I think thet taking away his weapons first is far wiser. And thet is why we are going to break into the Tower of Fate."
13:08 GMT
I adjust my bobble hat as Dr. Balewa leads the way across Hyde Park. Not a place I expected to ever come with a member of the Justice League, but I suppose he wasn't a member at the time. I'm dressed in clothing that's… More like my wardrobe from Earth Prime than anything I've worn since getting here, including a slightly ratty bomber jacket with a logo that looks a little like a something a rock band might use while being dissimilar enough to avoid incurring licensing fees. Not a perfect replica of the jacket I had handed down from my cousin Peter, which kept me warm through…
I honestly can't remember if it was Primary School or Secondary School. Huh.
Anyway, I'm dressed like a British person during winter, rather than a superhero or model… Okay, fine, idiosyncratically attired rich lunatic, like I normally am. Dr. Balewa usually dresses down, but for this trip he's left his kaftan on the Watchtower in favour of a long, puffy, bright red coat. It doesn't do much in the way of camouflage, but it's ridiculous enough that no one is going to think he's a superhero.
Chavy-ridiculous, not normal-superhero-clothing ridiculous.
Feel a bit awkward about Alan being here. Huh. I wonder. If he'd had his renovated ring at the time, would I have invited him? Yes, yes of course I would. Even if it might have affected his ability to join the League later -and I know how much he likes being part of the League- I would have wanted him with me.
"If he's been here all along then I'm going to be annoyed with myself."
"Part of him."
I frown, but if he's going to do the whole cryptic wizard thing… I suppose that he's earned that right. Someone his age is going to sound cryptic to someone my age even if they try and speak as plainly as possible, and that goes double for an actual wizard.
Scanning our surroundings for a moment I spot Alan, who appears to have decided that his best cover involves dressing like a stereotypical American tourist. Half his clothing has an American flag on it somewhere, and the other half appears to have been purchased from a London-themed market stall. The camera around his neck is a little incongruous, except he spent plenty of time around professional photographers and can probably talk about it in enough detail to cover himself if someone asked about it.
And standing next to him-. No. No, that's not-.
"Nommo?"
"You know how he was created?"
"Roughly."
"Consider the situation. John Constantine has inherited the power of a Lord of Order, but he cannot handle it. You hev seen John Quinn-."
"The use of his mother's maiden name was a bit obvious. And the fact that he looks like an idealised John Constantine. So that's what he is? It's a lot less worry… Ing…"
"Do you see the problem?"
"Creating a golem like that involves removing memories. So if he removed… What, every heroic memory and… Thought? Then he'd be-." What? "Don't tell me the thing I've been calling The Demon Constantine is actual-John?"
"No. Though knowing Constantine as I do, it does not sound beyond him. According to the Demon, he used a duplicate of himself thet he had already created."
"From before he created the Demon, or after?"
"Thet, the Demon did not know."
"Oh, come on. You told me that you knew enough to find John."
"Thet is why we are here. The Demon wishes to use the echoes of John's actions, here and in other places, to become more like him. Since John Constantine is not inclined to help mass murderers, I felt thet permitting this was in the interest of Earth."
"Always up for a bit of redemption. Why does he want to become more like John?"
"Why did you want to regain your memories after the second time you died?"
"Fair-. No, wait. I wouldn't have created a golem like that in the first place. For me it was like curing Alzheimer's, but the Demon never had those memories."
"No, but he had a memory of having those memories." Dr. Balewa looks away, probably reaching for an appropriate metaphor. "He would hev thought, but they would not make sense because the experiences thet would-."
"Like Mister Cairo from Phantom Twenty Forty."
"You cannot make me feel older than I do already."
Think I just made myself feel old.
"He was an intelligent computer program created from the mind of a widower to find out what caused the particularly nasty car crash that killed his wife. Unfortunately, he got damaged before being completed and was just left with an obsessive desire to learn everything. Once he finally learned the thing he was originally created to learn he returned to his creator and tried merging with him."
"Tried, and failed, then."
"By that point in their lives they were just too different to merge, even though they both wanted to. The widower got the information he wanted and could carry on with his life, but the infomorph was stuck knowing that its whole purpose was already fulfilled. The Demon Constantine's purpose was to go to Hell in John's place, which he did. The only good memory he has was Kathryn Ryan, and that didn't-. He remembers the relationship, but it wouldn't really have context."
I frown at him.
"And we can't just telepathically dub stuff over because his body is a construct of demon magic and so he doesn't literally have a brain."
Dr. Balewa smiles. "Thet was the first thing you thought of, wasn't it?"
"Yes, of c-." I'm getting distracted again. "But returning to the subject?"
"The Demon claimed thet John Quinn is keeping John Constantine in the Tower of Fate, using him to maintain control of the link to Order and Chaos."
"Wouldn't you be able to detect him using that much power? Or not just you, I mean, wouldn't it be obvious?"
"If he were using it all of the time, yes, certainly. If he were simply doing what Nabu did and drawing what he needed, no."
"Right then. So we're fighting Nabu Two. That explains Hyde Park."
"Thet would not be wise. While I hev not seen it, if John put enough of himself into John Quinn to use Order and Chaos, he would be far more powerful than Nabu was. And John was always more cunning than Nabu. A direct confrontation…"
He shakes his head. And he's right. The potential for collateral damage alone-.
"But we're freeing John Constantine and not talking to John Quinn about it in advance?"
"I do not share the optimism of some other League members. I think thet taking away his weapons first is far wiser. And thet is why we are going to break into the Tower of Fate."
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Darko
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"talked"
So did he use that ritual to separate himself?
"looks"
Osiris
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Since when does Dr Balewa talk like Boris and Natasha?
Someguy Somewhere
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They're saying that...Quin Isn't an alternate universe John here....they think, but another Golem, much like demon Constantine started as.
That....makes some sense since we really didn't hear anything from John about alternative universes, something that Paul got a lot of experience with these days.
So...John tries and fails to contain both order and chaos, and splits the load between himself and a golem duplicate....but the Dub that got Order figures that John's not exactly the best person to leave that kinda power with and double crosses him, locks him in the Tower or elsewhere, and goes on being Nabu 2.0.
It's a working theory.
That....makes some sense since we really didn't hear anything from John about alternative universes, something that Paul got a lot of experience with these days.
So...John tries and fails to contain both order and chaos, and splits the load between himself and a golem duplicate....but the Dub that got Order figures that John's not exactly the best person to leave that kinda power with and double crosses him, locks him in the Tower or elsewhere, and goes on being Nabu 2.0.
It's a working theory.
adc
Getting some practice in, huh?
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From what I gather, Quinn is a golem that Constantine filled with all the heroic memories and tendencies he had, which led him to being a superhero. He's currently holding (or at least has) Constantine... hostage? sort of like Nabu did to his hosts in the Tower of Fate in order to use the Order and Chaos power he has.
Mr Zoat
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I don't think that's correct.
Thank you, corrected.
Treekin3000
Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?
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Golem made by and from John Constantine to be a conduit for the Powers of ORDER and CHAOS, so John himself could get out of the job long enough to learn to use those massive powers or just get out of it.
Has all John's heroic memories in order to make a heroic version of himself.
Except he seems to have imprisoned the original John under Nabu's/Fate's tower, to use the original as something of a focus to control the power.
Knowing how... pragmatic John the original can be, I can see just how heroic it might be to lock John Constantine away.
The Froggy Ninja
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It's a Bad Penny, Good Penny, Mad Penny situation*. John (Hereafter referred to as Constantine) figured the best way to deal with the strain of holding both Order and Chaos was to create a homunculus of all his most heroic qualities. Heroic John (hereafter referred to as Quinn) realized "Hey, Constantine kinda sucks ass, why don't I just kidnap him and fulfill his duties since I'm just him but better." Constantine, being the cosmic chew toy he is, somehow didn't see this incredibly obvious betrayal coming (or, being the crafty bastard that he is, planned on Paul tracking him down and merging him with Quinn and Demon to create a John with sufficient enlightenment to control his powers like a smug fuck), while Demon immediately thought "what's the stupidest and most likely to backfire thing I would do in this situation" and immediately figured it out because he's the John with the most memories of their post-grad studies at the University of Hard Knocks.
*that's a Please Don't Tell My Parents I'm A Supervillain reference