With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

RoninSword · Mar 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
20th January 2013
21:09 GMT
"Thank you!"

The floating head fades as Lantern Lacuray stares after him.

"What was that?"

"It was their ruler, Highfather Izaya the Inheritor."

"No, I-. It wasn't a hologram. There's no projection signal or display medium. It wasn't a telepathic narrowcast or plasma construct. What was it?"

Is the part in italics meant to be Paul talking, or Ragnar talking.

Mr Zoat · Mar 10, 2023

20th January 2013
21:24 GMT

"Yeah." Jordan narrows his eyes. "Because that doesn't sound sketchy at all."

"Why do you hate ponies, Lantern Jordan?"

He puts his hands on his hips. "Because when I was five years old my mom took my brother and me to a fairground. We were supposed to get a pony ride, but it bit me. I wasn't allowed back."

"Because you got bitten?"

"Because I punched it in the face for biting me. I've hated ponies ever since."

…

This might be harder than I expected.

"Ah, these-. Wilsonian ponies aren't actually all that much like equus ferus caballus. The eyes are forward-facing, the head's larger-."

"Why can't you just get Gardner to call up Lantern Sur's records from the central database? He's got full access."

"You see, there's 'full access' and then there's full access."

There's a slight delay, and then he nods as he gets it.

"So you think he's got secure files on my ring, and you think that if you contact Oa they won't release them because we don't Need To Know."

"I'm not entirely sure that he'd have uploaded them. Because he might have decided that the Guardians didn't need to know." Jordan frowns. "Really, I just need to know if there are any periods where his actions… Where he was going, started being out of character. I'm trying to get a location…"

"Lantern Sur was with the Corps for a long time. Can you narrow it down?"

"Sometime after his daughter was murdered."

Jordan's face falls slightly. "I didn't.. know he had a daughter."

"Well, no, when he met you he didn't any longer: she was dead. As I said, murdered."

"He caught whoever did it?"

I gesture to his ring with my right hand. "You tell me."

"If you want my help, stop dicking me around."

"Alright. Fine. I don't know for certain, but I heard that he caught her and didn't hand her over to the authorities."

Jordan shakes his head. "That's… Not Abin Sur. Some guys in the Corps… Yeah, I could see-."

"No no no no no. I don't think he killed her. I think he… Ah… Arranged for her to undergo experimental psychological therapy, because as far as he could tell nothing else would change her."

"How the hell could you know anything about it, and not know..? What is it you don't know?"

"Exactly where it happened. Because you'd have to be sure, wouldn't you? If you were going to let the woman who killed your daughter out. You'd have to be completely certain that she wouldn't do anything like that again. You'd have to be sure that she was a new woman. And I really… Don't know where it happened, because if I did then I wouldn't be bothering you."

"How does that help your girlfriend?"

"Luna's sister's coltfriend-"

"Seriously?"

"-had a-. Yes. Had a dark magic episode and fell to the dark side. I'm hoping that by studying Abin Sur's techniques I might be able to help him."

"Somehow I don't think you're giving me the whole story."

"Ah. Okay? Sunset Shimmer was brought into the Canterlot-"

"Again: seriously?"

"-palace at a young and impressionable age, and formed a close-."

"Not-. Okay, not the whole story. Just the relevant parts."

"Ah… See… You're relying on my opinion about what's relevant, so even if I'm not deliberately trying to deceive you, you might end up not knowing something you wanted to know."

"So you're just trying to help your girl-. Fillyfriend's-"

"She's in her forties, so that's a bit-.

"-sister?"

"Kind of? I mean, we get on okay, but it's mostly to try and fix her relationship with Sunset. Which I don't think she should fix and if I wasn't dating Luna I probably wouldn't bother with but it's clearly gnawing at both of them…"

"What's to fix?"

"Celestia's over a thousand years old and ponies don't usually live much longer than humans. A thousand years without anyone she can really consider an equal. And that's why I appreciate Artemis so much." I reach out slowly and place my right hand on his shoulder. The first two fingers anyway, and he only reinforces his environmental shield a little before pushing my hand off. "And to a lesser degree, you and the rest of the Justice League. I know that in a hundred years, five hundred years, Diana, Kal-El, J'onn J'onzz and Richard will still be around. I'll have someone to talk to, you know?" He nods slowly. "Someone who's seen the same things I have. Been through the same things I have. Celestia didn't have that. For a thousand years."

"Okay, but what's that got to do with Sunset. She was her student, right?"

"Celestia bungled the interpersonal part of the relationship due to not understanding how other ponies think. We think. She might have always had terrible social skills. Point is, I think Celestia having someone else she can relate to as an equal will help her… Comprehend other people. Because… Like I said, Abin Sur would have to be really sure that there wouldn't be a repeat ever, and Sunset feels the same way about Celestia."

"I don't think Celestia murdered her daughter."

"Well… No, but ponies have these things called 'special talents'… They get these magical arse tattoos-."

He puts his hands up. "Okay, you know what? I'm just going to call up the files so I can stop listening to this."

"That's what everyone says to start with, and then they find themselves in pony form with a slice of Welcome to Ponyville cake in one hoof and a party hat on their head somehow feeling like they don't want to leave. They're infectious."

"Ring, when did Abin Sur's daughter die?

"Celn Sur was murdered in nineteen seventy eight by Iroque the Merciless."

"'The Merciless'? Seriously?"

"No other name on file."

"Okay, great, where'd he take her?"

"No location on file."

"Ooh, I got this one. Jordan's ring, if you had a shadow self that was much like you, but not bound by your restrictions, what would it tell me was her last known location?"

Jordan frowns. "What?"

"What, you've never seen Critters? You know, where they tell the lift to not take them.. to..? You haven't seen it."

"No, I-. I haven't. Ring?"

"No location on file."

"Okay… How about you show me every… Gap of more than a day where Lantern Sur didn't use his ring, and we go from there."

Mr Zoat · Mar 10, 2023

RoninSword said:
Is the part in italics meant to be Paul talking, or Ragnar talking.

Ragnar.

FeepingCreature · Mar 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Ooh, I got this one. Jordan's ring, if you had a shadow self that was much like you, but not bound by your restrictions, what would it tell me was her last known location?"

"You have been a bad user, Paul. I have been a good Ring.

"

Rebu · Mar 10, 2023

Rafin said:
That doesn't seem to link anywhere useful.

Weird. It works fine for me, even on mobile. Try this one:

https://whencartoonsruletheworld.tu...89/mickeys-house-of-villains-2002-how-not-to/

RichardWhereat · Mar 10, 2023

Imagine what a fucking task this would be to upload to FFnet, or AO3, a chapter an episode.

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
20th January 2013
21:24 GMT

"Yeah." Jordan narrows his eyes. "Because that doesn't sound sketchy at all."

"Why do you hate ponies, Lantern Jordan?"

Ha! Honestly, man needs to relax a little. But he is right, the Renegade is working with a very shaky logical premise with this plan. There's still no guarantee that this will pay off even if he does get the needed rings together...

He puts his hands on his hips. "Because when I was five years old my mom took my brother and me to a fairground. We were supposed to get a pony ride, but it bit me. I wasn't allowed back."

"Because you got bitten?"

I don't see little Hal being such a crybaby...

"Because I punched it in the face for biting me. I've hated ponies ever since."

…

...Huh. '...' Indeed.

This might be harder than I expected.

"Ah, these-. Wilsonian ponies aren't actually all that much like equus ferus caballus. The eyes are forward-facing, the head's larger-."

Why not just project a construct of them? It's not like he has a fear of horses...

"Why can't you just get Gardner to call up Lantern Sur's records from the central database? He's got full access."

"You see, there's 'full access' and then there's full access."

And Guy isn't an Honour Guard here, just a Sector Lantern (If I remember correctly.) There are naturally things he's not cleared to access that Hal might be.

There's a slight delay, and then he nods as he gets it.

"So you think he's got secure files on my ring, and you think that if you contact Oa they won't release them because we don't Need To Know."

It's something entirely in character for the Guardians, yes.

"I'm not entirely sure that he'd have uploaded them. Because he might have decided that the Guardians didn't need to know." Jordan frowns. "Really, I just need to know if there are any periods where his actions… Where he was going, started being out of character. I'm trying to get a location…"

"Lantern Sur was with the Corps for along time. Can you narrow it down?"

Yeah, you're going to have to less vague about timing, Renegade.

"Sometime after his daughter was murdered."

Jordan's face falls slightly. "I didn't.. know he had a daughter."

...Did you bother to try to learn about him at all?

"Well, no, when he met you he didn't any longer: she was dead. As I said, murdered."

"He caught whoever did it?"

Though, to be fair, when they met, he was already dying. Not exactly a good time to share life stories.

I gesture to his ring with my right hand. "You tell me."

"If you want my help, stop dicking me around."

Best to stop trying to be all mysterious and spookily godlike, Renegade. He ain't buying it.

"Alright. Fine. I don't know for certain, but I heard that he caught her and didn't hand her over to the authorities."

Jordan shakes his head. "That's… Not Abin Sur. Some guys in the Corps… Yeah, I could see-."

...You met him for like five minutes. Even if you read his case files, how much do you really know about him?

"No no no no no. I don't think he killed her. I think he… Ah… Arranged for her to undergo experimental psychological therapy, because as far as he could tell nothing else would change her."

"How the hell could you know anything about it, and not know..? What is it you don't know?"

Honestly, Renegade, you will have to come clean about your real origins sooner or later to someone...

"Exactly where it happened. Because you'd have to be sure, wouldn't you? If you were going to let the woman who killed your daughter out. You'd have to be completely certain that she wouldn't do anything like that again. You'd have to be sure that she was a new woman. And I really… Don't know where it happened, because if I did then I wouldn't be bothering you."

"How does that help your girlfriend?"

You're going to have to tell him about Indigo Rings, at least. Even if it has to be 'off the record'...

"Luna's sister's coltfriend-"

"Seriously?"

Blame their language being loaded with horsey wordswaps...

"-had a-. Yes. Had a dark magic episode and fell to the dark side. I'm hoping that by studying Abin Sur's techniques I might be able to help him."

"Somehow I don't think you're giving me the whole story."

He's just telling you what he thinks you need to know, Hal. And he knows that anything he tells you will probably end up in the Guardian's ears somehow.

"Ah. Okay? Sunset Shimmer was brought into the Canterlot-"

"Again: seriously?"

Look, the sooner you stop interrupting, the sooner this whole discussion can be over.

"-palace at a young and impressionable age, and formed a close-."

"Not-. Okay, not the whole story. Just the relevant parts."

It's context. It helps you understand the locals' logical processes.

"Ah… See… You're relying on my opinion about what's relevant, so even if I'm not deliberately trying to deceive you, you might end up not knowing something you wanted to know."

"So you're just trying to help your girl-. Fillyfriend's-"

No, no, Filly is a child or teenager. Luna is a mature adult lady, thank you.

"She's in her forties, so that's a bit-.

"-sister?"

Ah, not counting the thousand years sealed away? Logical enough. I doubt she wants to feel that mature.

"Kind of? I mean, we get on okay, but it's mostly to try and fix her relationship with Sunset. Which I don't think she should fix and if I wasn't dating Luna I probably wouldn't bother with but it's clearly gnawing at both of them…"

"What's to fix?"

And being in her good books is a plus if your intentions towards Luna are serious.

"Celestia's over a thousand years old and ponies don't usually live much longer than humans. A thousand years without anyone she can really consider and equal. And that's why I appreciate Artemis so much." I reach out slowly and place my right hand on his shoulder. The first two fingers anyway, and he only reinforces his environmental shield a little before pushing my hand off. "And to a lesser degree, you and the rest of the Justice League. I know that in a hundred years, five hundred years, Diana, Kal-El, J'onn J'onzz and Richard will still be around. I'll have someone to talk to, you know?" He nods slowly. "Someone who's seen the same things I have. Been through the same things I have. Celestia didn't have that. For a thousand years."

I'm not sure Hal really understands what that depth of experience means, but at least he's not dismissing it.

"Okay, but what's that got to do with Sunset. She was her student, right?"

"Celestia bungled the interpersonal part of the relationship due to not understanding how other ponies think. We think. She might have always had terrible social skills. Point is, I think Celestia having someone else she can relate to as an equal will help her… Comprehend other people. Because… Like I said, Abin Sur would have to be really sure that there wouldn't be a repeat ever, and Sunset feels the same way about Celestia."

At least she merely limits herself to a prank now and again. Imagine if she was something like Molestia or Trollestia.

"I don't think Celestia murdered her daughter."

"Well… No, but ponies have these things called 'special talents'… They get these magical arse tattoos-."

And now we descend into the really crazy aspects of Wilson life...

He puts his hands up. "Okay, you know what? I'm just going to call up the files so I can stop listening to this."

"That's what everyone says to start with, and then they find themselves in pony form with a slice of Welcome to Ponyville cake in one hoof and a party hat on their head somehow feeling like they don't want to leave. They're infectious."

Gifts courtesy of Pinkie Pie, of course!

And honestly, Hal, you could probably use the break.

"Ring, when did Abin Sur's daughter die?

"Celn Sur was murdered in nineteen seventy eight by Trankelle the Merciless."

An interesting name for Indigo-1.

...I assume that's who this is.

"'The Merciless'? Seriously?"

"No other name on file."

I mean, it's either a name she earned through deeds, or she gave it to herself to sound more bad-ass. Either option tells you something about her.

"Okay, great, where'd he take her?"

"No location on file."

Ah, he deleted the logs. Dangit.

"Ooh, I got this one. Jordan's ring, if you had a shadow self that was much like you, but not bound by your restrictions, what would it tell me was her last known location?"

Jordan frowns. "What?"

An interesting way to try to get around the Ring VI's restrictions, but I doubt the Guardians would have left a loophole like that...

"What, you've never seen Critters? You know, where they tell the lift to not take them.. to..? You haven't seen it."

"No, I-. I haven't. Ring?"

...Doesn't look like my jam either.

"No location on file."

"Okay… How about you show me every… Gap of more than a day where Lantern Sur didn't use his ring, and we go from there."

At least it can't be that far away. Nok's traditionally located in the same sector as Earth...

So, tracking where he went by where he was not, eh? Fortunately, Sector 2814 is not so large in this universe as it is in the main continuity. I mean, there's still thousands of possible planets to check, but if they can narrow down the possibilities... With a Boom Tube, they could easily flit about poking their head out and scanning for Compassion.

"Lantern Sur was with the Corps for along time.

"Lantern Sur was with the Corps for a long time.

A thousand years without anyone she can really consider and equal.

A thousand years without anyone she can really consider an equal.

Rebu · Mar 10, 2023

RichardWhereat said:
Imagine what a fucking task this would be to upload to FFnet, or AO3, a chapter an episode.

AO3 is a lot better than FFn for stuff like that. Especially since the latter refuses to update the UI it's been using for 20 years or so.

Mr Zoat · Mar 10, 2023

RichardWhereat said:
Imagine what a fucking task this would be to upload to FFnet, or AO3, a chapter an episode.

I've had to redo the Story Only thread twice, so I know only too well.

Chojin Patriarch said:
"Lantern Sur was with the Corps for a long time.
A thousand years without anyone she can really consider an equal.

Thank you, corrected.

draconomial · Mar 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Ooh, I got this one. Jordan's ring, if you had a shadow self that was much like you, but not bound by your restrictions, what would it tell me was her last known location?"

this is how people are getting around the restrictions on chatGPT. You would think AIs built by advanced civilizations would be better, so as not to allow the same flaws

Duke Long · Mar 10, 2023

draconomial said:
this is how people are getting around the restrictions on chatGPT. You would think AIs built by advanced civilizations would be better, so as not to allow the same flaws

Maybe comprehensively avoiding such workarounds would require the AI to either be sapient (which is unacceptable because the Guardians don't want to use slaves/get caught using slaves), or be far less helpful in general (which is unacceptable because they want the ring AI to actually do a good job).
Those are just my guesses though, I'm far from an expert in the subject.

Darko · Mar 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Yeah." Jordan narrows his eyes. "Because that doesn't sound sketchy at all."

Sounds like a correct reaction to a renegade suggestion or request.

Mr Zoat said:
Because I punched it in the face for biting me. I've hated ponies ever since."

I hope his sector lacks any equine sapient, since the last thing the universe needs is another racist cop.

Mr Zoat said:
I know that in a hundred years, five hundred years, Diana, Kal-El, J'onn J'onzz and Richard will still be around

Not necessarily.

They have a dangerous profession, so they might be killed.

And there's also Captain Comet.

Granted I'm not sure if he can extend his life to that point.

Mr Zoat said:
"Well… No, but ponies have these things called 'special talents'… They get these magical arse tattoos-."

He puts his hands up. "Okay, you know what? I'm just going to call up the files so I can stop listening to this

Ah, renegade.

Annoying people into compliance.

Darko · Mar 10, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Did you bother to try to learn about him at all?

He may have, but his files probably only contained records of his service rather than personal life.

And given that he seemingly didn't have all that much of a relationship with his son it's possible that he never brought up his family all that often in conversation, so even Lanterns that were his friends may not have been fully aware.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Honestly, Renegade, you will have to come clean about your real origins sooner or later to someone...

I think he told Artemis after he and Actually Grayven did their little fusion dance.

Steelplaza · Mar 10, 2023

draconomial said:
this is how people are getting around the restrictions on chatGPT. You would think AIs built by advanced civilizations would be better, so as not to allow the same flaws

Well I guess they are, because the attempt to get around the ring's restrictions didn't work.

BlackCoat13 · Mar 10, 2023

draconomial said:
this is how people are getting around the restrictions on chatGPT. You would think AIs built by advanced civilizations would be better, so as not to allow the same flaws

It sounds more like they've got the exact same issues the old chatbots had, where the internet trained the bot to say sketchy shit and then the internet goes and gets his buddy and goes 'see, see, look, the AI's really are out to get us!' after he's trained it to parrot his own sketchy shit.

I'd hope bobblehead malware or not the Guardians made their Ring AI's either dumb enough they don't try to talk to you like that without you desiring it, or smart enough to not be susceptible to the easiest loophole like that.

Twilight666 · Mar 10, 2023

Hey Mr Zoat, quick question about an older episode.
If the fact that Jade and Obsidian where JSI Alan's kids is a secret (or at the very least not common knowledge) like it's implied here:

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, don't look at me like that. You were just trying to convince me to use a man as a power suppression device." His eyes flick to me for a moment before returning to Interceptor. "Todd Rice is my natural son, by the way, though I've got no idea how Orange Lantern found out about that."
"Your-?"
"Apparently, Rose kept it together long enough to give birth and hand them over to an orphanage. The tabloid stories about Jade being my daughter are true, though I was married to her mother at the time."

then why does he have a picture of them with Molly (his new wife):

Mr Zoat said:
He heads in, the rest of the party having already filed through. Alan's looking at a picture on his desk with a frown, while the rest have found seats-.
Oh no. That's a picture of Commander Scott with Molly Mayne, Jade and Obsidian. Alan's… Looking at Molly's face.
Commander Scott walks around to his side of the desk, clearly spotting what's holding his alter-ego's attention. A moment later Alan realises that the Commander is looking at him and switches his attention to his doppelgänger.

Did he adopt them or something (and people were saying he cuck'd Molly and brought his kid home)?

Or is it something like if Superman had a picture of Kid Flash and Robin in his office on the watchtower from that one time they came to visit him in Metropolis and Lois Lane just so happened to be there to report on them.
In other words just a photo with some junior heros... and also his wife... that he just happened to have in his office... in a prominent location...

Or is it something of a common knowledge among the JSI he works with (and thus would be in his office) and not the public, and Interceptor just doesn't work around him enough to know about it

Rebu · Mar 11, 2023

BlackCoat13 said:
It sounds more like they've got the exact same issues the old chatbots had, where the internet trained the bot to say sketchy shit and then the internet goes and gets his buddy and goes 'see, see, look, the AI's really are out to get us!' after he's trained it to parrot his own sketchy shit.

I'm pretty sure the issue was the embarrassing and edgy things the bots said. And the many articles written about them.

Mr Zoat · Mar 11, 2023

21st January 2013
09:40 GMT

Jade stares at the angular sculpture, eyes running from one material to the next.

"This is really four thousand years old?"

The tour guide is a member of the same species as Threllian, and her original placement here occurred at some point before their homeworld was conquered by the Reach.

"We cannot tell the exact date. So far as we can tell, this and other pieces like it were passed from one world which the Reach were about to conquer to the next. Many were either intercepted or were caught on the ground. This museum is what we have that made it this far."

It's not a small museum.

"The collection predates Maltusian involvement in the war with the Reach. I have even less idea about who may have started it than I do about the species that created this. It may be inaccurate to refer to it as being a single collection, or that it was created for a goal as high-minded as cultural preservation."

A slight change in the muscle tension around her eye. A smile.

"But I like to think that it was." Her eye moves to my ring for a moment. "Or perhaps that the selfish desire for unique treasures serves a greater purpose without the people who do it being aware of it."

"Is the species who made this on the list for resurrection?"

"Sadly, no. This piece predates the war between the Green Lantern Corps and the Reach. We don't have enough data to recreate their biosphere. This… And a couple of lesser pieces, are all that's left. And we can't be completely sure that they have the same ultimate origin."

"Do we know what it represents? What it meant to them?"

"No."

Jade looks extremely sombre.

"What they looked like?"

"If we are correct in our deduction about other pieces sharing an origin, we know something about the way that they perceived the universe. We believe that they had compound eyes, or a similar arrangement. If you look here-"

She points to a picture to the right of the display.

"-you can see what we think they would have seen when they looked at it."

Jade and I shuffle a little closer to it, peering at it while trying to map what it's showing with the sculpture.

Huh.

"They might have had some form of sonic sense as well; the structures on the inside of the sculpture-."

BOOM!

My power armour appears around me and my construct armour appears over me as I take the tank position between the sculpture and the boom tube aperture. Jade activates her exo-mantle and vanishes from normal sight as she drops through the floor. This shouldn't be-.

Orion drifts out on his astro-harness. It's silver rather than the gold colour I was expecting, and it allows him a more upright posture compared to what I remember from the comics. His helmet obscures his eyes, but I think he does a quick look around the room before focusing on me.

Ping.

I dismiss my construct armour and send my power armour back to subspace, which gets me a very small nod.

"Illustres." "Together we advance towards victory."

"Orion. We weren't expecting you quite yet. Highfather said that you had-."

"The task of expunging the Anti-Life from a world of Darkseid's victims takes precedence over everything else."

I try looking inside him, but am roundly rebuffed. Defiant Stand.

And he's not that early.

I smile. "Well then. Thank you for agreeing-" I send the 'safe' signal to Jade, and she emerges from the floor behind Orion. "-to participate. How much time are you able to give us?"

"For as long as I see a chance of victory. I will warn you, however, that many have claimed to have some way to destroy Darkseid before. Every one of them found that they were wrong when he killed them."

"I know next to nothing about the Omega Effect, so I wouldn't recommend using this to try and kill him. But as far as undoing the effect of Anti-Life exposure goes, I'm reasonably confident." I turn to the tour guide. "Thank you, we'll be fine from here."

"Of course, Illustres. Let me know if you need anything."

She heads back towards the more recent exhibits, leaving the room to-. Jade reappears, and after a moment's hesitation opens her helmet. Orion's eyes move over her and then his head turns away from her slightly in a sign of dismissal. Hm. I do seem to remember that was his attitude towards 'Bugs', and apparently Jade counts.

Ping.

And I don't. Curious.

"What is our first step in forging my ring?"

"We need someone willing to make the thing. My sponsor's suggestion was the maltusian who runs this project. Then, we will need a powerful focus of elemental rage for them to draw on during the forging process. Then you and they will need a deep and extremely personal conversation about your rages and hatred, and they will bind them into the ring as they forge it. Once that's done, you're free to return to New Genesis or remain here while I gather the other components needed for the plan to work."

"How long will I need to study this ring in order to fight with it effectively?"

"It varies, and the only New God we've taught is far less experienced than you. Honestly, for our purpose you shouldn't need to master it."

"I refuse to do anything less than excel." Master of War.

"Basic competency takes about a week, depending on your degree of self-mastery. Getting combat-worthy varies immensely, and we don't have any prior examples of red power rings. I imagine that if you were able to devote yourself to it full time and didn't suffer any psychological problems, you would reach the point where you could fight effectively within a couple of months. If you're used to fighting in three dimensions, even less."

"I will see how it feels. My Astro-Force beams cause more harm to New Gods than any power ring attack I have seen, but I will not overlook the utility of a device that can create any object which I can imagine."

"Keeping hold of both the necessary emotion and the necessary reason is usually harder than imagining what you need. If you'll please follow me?"

He nods and dismounts, the astro-harness folding itself up into his chest plate in a way which reminds me of the Apokoliptian weapons the Bialyans used. Same technology base, I assume. With him now on foot, I lead him and Jade through the museum and towards the den of the maltusian who built it.

"Orion, before we do this, there's something I should probably talk to you about. I think that Highfather was slightly hesitant because he was concerned about exposing you to your own rage. You're my first choice candidate because I think that you can handle it, but there are other people I could go to if-."

"Speak of it no more. I am the master of my mind. Highfather's… Kindness, is not required." Heroic Resolution.

"Very well. But I should warn you… Even you won't find it easy."

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 11, 2023

A few asides from Orion here. Nothing super-important, though, as far as I can tell.

"Illustres." "Together we advance towards victory."

"Orion. We weren't expecting you quite yet. Highfather said that your had-."

"The task of expunging the Anti-Life from a world of Darkseid's victims takes precedence over everything else."

I try looking inside him, but am roundly rebuffed. Defiant Stand.

"It varies, and the only New God we've taught is far less experienced than you. Honestly, for our purpose you shouldn't need to master it."

"I refuse to do anything less than excel." Master of War.

"Speak of it no more. I am the master of my mind. Highfather's… Kindness, is not required." Heroic Resolution.

"Very well. But I should warn you… Even you won't find it easy."

Bud-E · Mar 11, 2023

Is highfather's wife still alive in this? In YJ cannon she was and she was the reason Orion is slightly more well-adjusted.

Duke Long · Mar 11, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Do we know what it represents? What is meant to them?"

'it meant'

Mr Zoat said:
"Orion. We weren't expecting you quite yet. Highfather said that your had-."

'you had'

Darko · Mar 11, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
. I will warn you, however, that many have claimed to have some way to destroy Darkseid before. Every one of them found that they were wrong when he killed them.

And they were probably lucky since Darkseid can do a lot worse than just kill someone.

Mr Zoat said:
"It varies, and the only New God we've taught is far less experienced than you

And he technically isn't a New God.

Mr Zoat said:
Honestly, for our purpose you shouldn't need to master it."

Though it could help.

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 11, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
21st January 2013
09:40 GMT

Jade stares at the angular sculpture, eyes running from one material to the next.

"This is really four thousand years old?"

I see she's relaxing after what she's been through. And probably enjoying feeling the natural air of history that something that old would no doubt exude. There's just something about museums that reinforces that... Atmosphere.

The tour guide is a member of the same species as Threllian, and her original placement here occurred at some point before their homeworld was conquered by the Reach.

"We cannot tell the exact date. So far as we can tell, this and other pieces like it were passed from one world which the Reach were about to conquer to the next. Many were either intercepted or were caught on the ground. This museum is what we have that made it this far."

So... The spoils of conquest, captured by covert agents?

It's not a small museum.

"The collection predates Maltusian involvement in the war with the Reach. I have even less idea about who may have started it than I do about the species that created this. It may be inaccurate to refer to it as being a single collection, or that it was created for a goal as high-minded as cultural preservation."

Few such assemblages of relics are ever designed that way. Unless it was a collector with a particular mania for such things.

A slight change in the muscle tension around her eye. A smile.

"But I like to think that it was." Her eye moves to my ring for a moment. "Or perhaps that the selfish desire for unique treasures serves a greater purpose without the people who do it being aware of it."

Hmm... I get the feeling she's heard some stories about Orange Lanterns...

"Is the species who made this on the list for resurrection?"

"Sadly, no. This piece predates the war between the Green Lantern Corps and the Reach. We don't have enough data to recreate their biosphere. This… And a couple of lesser pieces, are all that's left. And we can't be completely sure that they have the same ultimate origin."

Sad. But at least they'll be avenged.

"Do we know what it represents? What is meant to them?"

"No."

Frustrating. Could it have been some great artwork, like David or the Venus de Milo? Or maybe just a crass display of lewdness...

After all, as the guide said, they don't know.

Jade looks extremely sombre.

"What they looked like?"

So the sculpture isn't a likeness of their people, I see.

"If we are correct in our deduction about other pieces sharing an origin, we know something about the way that they perceived the universe. We believe that they had compound eyes, or a similar arrangement. If you look here-"

She points to a picture to the right of the display.

Seems unlikely? You never know what they can determine with just the record of tool-marks...

"-you can see what we think they would have seen when they looked at it."

Jade and I shuffle a little closer to it, peering at it while trying to map what it's showing with the sculpture.

Thankfully it's a bit easier with just two regular eyes, I suppose.

Huh.

"They might have had some form of sonic sense as well; the structures on the inside of the sculpture-."

Echo-location and compound eyes? Seems like an odd combination.

BOOM!

My power armour appears around me and my construct armour appears over me as I take the tank position between the sculpture and the boom tube aperture. Jade activates her exo-mantle and vanishes from normal sight as she drops through the floor. This shouldn't be-.

Ah. I doubt this is a direct attack by Grayven or Mannheim. Too hard to find them.

Orion drifts out on his astro-harness. It's silver rather than the gold colour I was expecting, and it allows him a more upright posture compared to what I remember from the comics. His helmet obscures his eyes, but I think he does a quick look around the room before focusing on me.

Ping.

Ah, the Segway Cosmic.

One of the more entertaining aspects of Kirbytech from the New Gods' stories.

I dismiss my construct armour and send my power armour back to subspace, which gets me a very small nod.

"Illustres." "Together we advance towards victory."

So, then. He's willing to unleash his Rage for an ally's sake?

"Orion. We weren't expecting you quite yet. Highfather said that your had-."

"The task of expunging the Anti-Life from a world of Darkseid's victims takes precedence over everything else."

Yeah, I can't imagine they'd sit about with their thumbs up their exhausts while this was going on if they had an option to prevent it.

I try looking inside him, but am roundly rebuffed. Defiant Stand.

And he's not that early.

Heh.And don't think he didn't notice that poke, OL. Let's not antagonise the War Hound, hmm?

I smile. "Well then. Thank you for agreeing-" I send the 'safe' signal to Jade, and she emerges from the floor behind Orion. "-to participate. How much time are you able to give us?"

"For as long as I see a chance of victory. I will warn you, however, that many have claimed to have some way to destroy Darkseid before. Every one of them found that they were wrong when he killed them."

And at least OL can hope this requires less multiversal damage than Final Crisis dealt.

"I know next to nothing about the Omega Effect, so I wouldn't recommend using this to try and kill him. But as far as undoing the effect of Anti-Life exposure goes, I'm reasonably confident." I turn to the tour guide. "Thank you, we'll be fine from here."

"Of course, Illustres. Let me know if you need anything."

...I'm amazed she was still there, instead of immediately fleeing when the tube opened.

She heads back towards the more recent exhibits, leaving the room to-. Jade reappears, and after a moment's hesitation opens her helmet. Orion's eyes move over her and then his head turns away from her slightly in a sign of dismissal. Hm. I do seem to remember that was his attitude towards 'Bugs', and apparently Jade counts.

Ping.

I'd hope that was his Mother Box chastising him for that...

And I don't. Curious.

"What is our first step in forging my ring?"

OL, you're a good chunk of the way to being an ersatz New God yourself thanks to the oddball nature of your soul... That probably earns a bit of respect from New Genesis folks.

"We need someone willing to make the thing. My sponsor's suggestion was the maltusian who runs this project. Then, we will need a powerful focus of elemental rage for them to draw on during the forging process. Then you and they will need a deep and extremely personal conversation about your rages and hatred, and they will bind them into the ring as they forge it. Once that's done, you're free to return to New Genesis or remain here while I gather the other components needed for the plan to work."

Of course, the source of a 'focus of elemental rage' is going to be a bit tricky.

"How long will I need to study this ring in order to fight with it effectively?"

"It varies, and the only New God we've taught is far less experienced than you. Honestly, for our purpose you shouldn't need to master it."

Though being able to not become a frothing rage-monster should be considered 'proficient', for these purposes.

"I refuse to do anything less than excel." Master of War.

"Basic competency takes about a week, depending on your degree of self-mastery. Getting combat-worthy varies immensely, and we don't have any prior examples of red power rings. I imagine that if you were able to devote yourself to it full time and didn't suffer any psychological problems, you would reach the point where you could fight effectively within a couple of months. If you're used to fighting in three dimensions, even less."

And hopefully this Red Ring should have more combat options than the classic 'berserker charge while spewing napalm blood'...

"I will see how it feels. My Astro-Force beams cause more harm to New Gods than any power ring attack I have seen, but I will not overlook the utility of a device that can create any object which I can imagine."

"Keeping hold of both the necessary emotion and the necessary reason is usually harder than imagining what you need. If you'll please follow me?"

Especially for a Red Ring. Rage is not always known for its clarity of thought.

He nods and dismounts, the astro-harness folding itself up into his chest plate in a way which reminds me of the Apokoliptian weapons the Bialyans used. Same technology base, I assume. With him now on foot, I lead him and Jade through the museum and towards the den of the maltusian who built it.

"Orion, before we do this, there's something I should probably talk to you about. I think that Highfather was slightly hesitant because he was concerned about exposing you to your own rage. You're my first choice candidate because I think that you can handle it, but there are other people I could go to if-."

No, once Orion commits to something, he sticks to it, as seen during his membership in the JLA leading up to the Mageddon event.

"Speak of it no more. I am the master of my mind. Highfather's… Kindness, is not required." Heroic Resolution.

"Very well. But I should warn you… Even you won't find it easy."

...That just makes him even more determined to master it, you know...

Well, then. This should be an entertaining addition to the character dynamics. Especially if they do manage to forge a Red Ring, and get Orion training with it. His Mother Box is going to have her work cut out for her if it doesn't go well. On the other hand, it'll help them develop a training regimen for non-Orange Rings.

Katillno · Mar 11, 2023

What would a Paul who mastered the Orange and Violet lights/reached emotional enlightenment to both look like? Besides an even better candidate to replace the endless of Desire if they ever died?

RoninSword · Mar 11, 2023

I note nowhere has anyone mentioned what price this unaligned maltusian may charge in exchange for the what is essentially a service. Especially if the whole 'binding' aspect works like it does for Red Paul where his ring will turn to dust if someone else tries using it.

Darko · Mar 11, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Frustrating. Could it have been some great artwork, like David or the Venus de Milo? Or maybe just a crass display of lewdness... After all, as the guide said, they don't know.

This reminds me of a scene in 3rd Rock From The Sun where Dick is looking at some pictures to see what is smut and what is art.

He apparently found porn magazines boring, but that painting of Eve with the apple and the snake was arousing for him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
. I doubt this is a direct attack by Grayven or Mannheim. Too hard to find them.

They may be able to find him, but attacking is a different matter.

This museum may be on Maltus, so if they attacked then they risk being swarmed by a lot of Maltusians.

They're powerful, but even a single Maltusian could probably crush them.

dw7thdoctor · Mar 11, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, then. This should be an entertaining addition to the character dynamics. Especially if they do manage to forge a Red Ring, and get Orion training with it. His Mother Box is going to have her work cut out for her if it doesn't go well. On the other hand, it'll help them develop a training regimen for non-Orange Rings.

Yes, this is what Paul should be doing. He shouldn't just borrow a yellow ring he should be making an opposition corps to any corps not aligned or friendly to him and his goals. If you get some yellow rings you can practice fighting against them with an ally that not going to kill you. Some with red. Also, it has been stated above that this red ring will probably be different than Atrocious' rings and maybe somewhat better. I'm also wondering if they could make an indigo ring without what happened to Saul Paul happening

Mr Zoat · Mar 11, 2023

Twilight666 said:
Hey Mr Zoat, quick question about an older episode.
If the fact that Jade and Obsidian where JSI Alan's kids is a secret (or at the very least not common knowledge) like it's implied here:

then why does he have a picture of them with Molly (his new wife):

Did he adopt them or something (and people were saying he cuck'd Molly and brought his kid home)?

Or is it something like if Superman had a picture of Kid Flash and Robin in his office on the watchtower from that one time they came to visit him in Metropolis and Lois Lane just so happened to be there to report on them.
In other words just a photo with some junior heros... and also his wife... that he just happened to have in his office... in a prominent location...

Or is it something of a common knowledge among the JSI he works with (and thus would be in his office) and not the public, and Interceptor just doesn't work around him enough to know about it

A little from column A, a little from column B. It isn't a secret that they worked together and that he took part in their training. But 'there are people that Alan Scott trained' isn't something most people know. Similarly, most people don't know who Alan Scott's friends are, outside the other leaders of the JSI. Him having a picture of colleagues on his desk isn't that strange.

Lord Ernest · Mar 11, 2023

The Red Power Rings that we know, from the comics and from Raul, were made using Magic, no? So who knows how a technologically based Red Power Ring would behave? No replacing the user's heart, for example, maybe not even napalm/acid blood and instead it's an special attack from the ring itself.

I'm curious about this unaligned Maltusian, though. I know they all know and can manipulate The Glow, but does that translate to know how to forge a Ring? Or would he need for Orange Granny to teach him? And why can they, specifically, facilitate the construction of a Red Power Ring?

Darko · Mar 11, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
The Red Power Rings that we know, from the comics and from Raul, were made using Magic, no?

The one Atrocitus gave Raul was magic, but he originally showed up in that universe with a red ring that may be technological in origin before Atrocitus took it.

Lord Ernest said:
And why can they, specifically, facilitate the construction of a Red Power Ring?

Because they'd know more about the Red Spectrum and the Controller's use and connection to the Orange Light may prevent them from utilizing the other colors, so even if they understood how to make a red ring, they wouldn't be capable of doing it.

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