Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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I am now strangely curious about what, if anything, he did in the Common Sense timeline (and if we're likely to see much of it).
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Mr Zoat
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12th November 1999
08:03 GMT
"…why you need us at all."
Roboneil is making a show of looking over the armoury, but he's fairly clearly watching me out of the corner of his eyes. Teal'c on the other hand is just checking the weapons.
"Need?" I shake my head. "I don't. It would be helpful to have you, and I believe that we could accomplish useful things together, but ultimately you don't need me and I don't need you."
"O… Kay…" He nods his head to the side. "Was… Kinda expecting you to put a little more effort into selling this to me…"
"Alright." I shrug. "This planet has no army. It has a tiny poorly trained militia force. The stargate is defended, but unless I get involved myself there's basically nothing here that can contest a landing or orbital bombardment."
"Because you can stop a fleet on your own."
"Yes."
"Because…" He nods slowly, making a circling gesture with both hands. "You're a god."
"No, because I've got tonnes of super-advanced alien technology on my person." He gives me his full attention. "What, did you think Altair was the only planet I went to?"
"Oh. Okay. That…" He nods to himself. "Makes a little more sense."
"To be clear, I'm not hung up on the god thing. You don't have to refer to me as a god, or treat me as a god. You don't have to worship me, sacrifice to me, or grovel at my feet. But if you take the job then I will be your head of state, and that does involve treating me with a degree of deference. I am aware that you tend to be irreverent, and that's fine in private, but I am running a nation here and my subordinates openly disrespecting me can have severe consequences for everyone."
Teal'c frowns at me. "You are most unusual."
I smile. "Thank you."
He tilts his head to the side slightly. "I am surprised that you are willing to offer me a place."
I shrug. "You are not the original Teal'c. You are not even a Jaffa. You owe the goa'uld nothing, and you did not betray your subordinates."
He raises an eyebrow. "My fellow Jaffa were loyal to Apophis."
"How do you know that they did not harbour the same doubts that Teal'c and Bra'tac do? Did he ask?"
"I-."
"He."
A shallow nod. "He did not."
"He didn't ask and he didn't use his Zat'nik'tel. I appreciate that his defection was a spur of the moment thing, but they were his subordinates and they deserved better from him. If you decide to enter my service and later feel that you cannot in good conscience continue to work for me, you can resign and return to Altair. Or Chulak, as far as I'm concerned. If you have concerns about my behaviour, you are free to respectfully raise them in private -that applies to you as well, Roboneil- but I will expect you to accept my decision afterwards."
Roboneil raises his eyebrows. "'Roboneil'?"
"Are you going to keep calling us 'goold'?"
He considers that for a moment, then nods. "Fair point. Just need to come up with something for 'Mammon'..."
My communication device chimes.
"Excuse me." I turn away from them and head out of the armoury. "Yes?"
"Lord Mammon, Lady Heset has arrived to speak with you."
"She's at the stargate now?"
"No, Lord. She used a ring transporter. She's in the palace."
There's a ship in orbit-. There's a ship in orbit over my capital. I don't think that she's threatening me, but that's bloody rude for a goa'uld. By any normal standard of diplomacy she should have called ahead. Even Lord Bastet would have done that unless I'd really pissed her off, if only to ensure that we had quarters ready for her.
"I will return at once." I close the communication channel and duck back into the armoury. "I'm sorry, but something's come up that needs my personal attention. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves while I'm away."
Roboneil raises his eyebrows. "Because… We needed your permission to do that?"
I shrug. "You might have assumed that I was monitoring everything that happened inside a secure area, and that might have impeded the freedom of your discussion. I'm telling you that you don't need to worry about that. Excuse me."
Where is she-? Right. Transition.
I appear miles away from the armoury, in what was the great receiving room. I haven't done much in the way of renovation to it because I didn't think it would see any use. And there's Heset, her guards and her First Prime who's raising his Ma'Tok-.
I transfer it into my right hand and jab the butt right into his pouch. Then I drop it onto the floor for him to pick up before fanning out my hands and smiling at Heset.
"Lady Heset. I wasn't expecting you, otherwise I would have been here to greet you. To what do I owe the pleasure of your company?"
She slowly draws a deep breath, eyes flickering to her First Prime who has one hand on his Zat'nik'tel and shaking her head. "Lord Mammon. System Lord Bastet has commanded me to speak with you in private on a matter of great urgency. Where may we speak?"
I raise my left hand, making orange lights circle around us before transitioning us to my private reception room.
"Here." She takes a moment to adjust to her new location, then reaches her right hand to her chest... Maybe she's checking that all of her materialised? "This is a violation of protocol, Lady Heset. System Lord Bastet has not lost my gate coordinates. What do you want?"
"Lady Bastet has… Your reward. She suggested that you might find it helpful if you had another goa'uld to aid you."
"Hardly. Few goa'uld would have the perspective, even if they could technically aid me. I don't want to have to deal with a would-be usurper's psychosis."
Oh, there's her perfume again. I really don't see the appeal.
"There are ways around that. Lady Bastet has acquired the service of a goa'uld queen to provide her Jaffa with Prim'ta. If you were to sire a brood, that would ensure that they shared your mindset."
"Assuming that the queen cooperated and didn't add other instructions."
Plus I… Well, I could use my scans of goa'uld physiology to add goa'uld host additives to my blood stream, it wouldn't be mine and it wouldn't have my genetically encoded memories in it. I'm fairly sure that the queen would notice that. I haven't even tried decoding goa'uld genetic memory. Though-. If the Altairians can create memory downloads it might be possible to work something out, maybe?
Heset takes a step closer, right hand rubbing her chest again. "I was… Instructed to get a sample… Personally."
The smell of her perfume is a bit-.
Wait. Scan.
…
Oh you cheeky minx. Pull.
A small part of her robe bursts as the aerosol lands in my left hand. I glare at it, then at her.
"What exactly was this supposed to do to me?"
08:03 GMT
"…why you need us at all."
Roboneil is making a show of looking over the armoury, but he's fairly clearly watching me out of the corner of his eyes. Teal'c on the other hand is just checking the weapons.
"Need?" I shake my head. "I don't. It would be helpful to have you, and I believe that we could accomplish useful things together, but ultimately you don't need me and I don't need you."
"O… Kay…" He nods his head to the side. "Was… Kinda expecting you to put a little more effort into selling this to me…"
"Alright." I shrug. "This planet has no army. It has a tiny poorly trained militia force. The stargate is defended, but unless I get involved myself there's basically nothing here that can contest a landing or orbital bombardment."
"Because you can stop a fleet on your own."
"Yes."
"Because…" He nods slowly, making a circling gesture with both hands. "You're a god."
"No, because I've got tonnes of super-advanced alien technology on my person." He gives me his full attention. "What, did you think Altair was the only planet I went to?"
"Oh. Okay. That…" He nods to himself. "Makes a little more sense."
"To be clear, I'm not hung up on the god thing. You don't have to refer to me as a god, or treat me as a god. You don't have to worship me, sacrifice to me, or grovel at my feet. But if you take the job then I will be your head of state, and that does involve treating me with a degree of deference. I am aware that you tend to be irreverent, and that's fine in private, but I am running a nation here and my subordinates openly disrespecting me can have severe consequences for everyone."
Teal'c frowns at me. "You are most unusual."
I smile. "Thank you."
He tilts his head to the side slightly. "I am surprised that you are willing to offer me a place."
I shrug. "You are not the original Teal'c. You are not even a Jaffa. You owe the goa'uld nothing, and you did not betray your subordinates."
He raises an eyebrow. "My fellow Jaffa were loyal to Apophis."
"How do you know that they did not harbour the same doubts that Teal'c and Bra'tac do? Did he ask?"
"I-."
"He."
A shallow nod. "He did not."
"He didn't ask and he didn't use his Zat'nik'tel. I appreciate that his defection was a spur of the moment thing, but they were his subordinates and they deserved better from him. If you decide to enter my service and later feel that you cannot in good conscience continue to work for me, you can resign and return to Altair. Or Chulak, as far as I'm concerned. If you have concerns about my behaviour, you are free to respectfully raise them in private -that applies to you as well, Roboneil- but I will expect you to accept my decision afterwards."
Roboneil raises his eyebrows. "'Roboneil'?"
"Are you going to keep calling us 'goold'?"
He considers that for a moment, then nods. "Fair point. Just need to come up with something for 'Mammon'..."
My communication device chimes.
"Excuse me." I turn away from them and head out of the armoury. "Yes?"
"Lord Mammon, Lady Heset has arrived to speak with you."
"She's at the stargate now?"
"No, Lord. She used a ring transporter. She's in the palace."
There's a ship in orbit-. There's a ship in orbit over my capital. I don't think that she's threatening me, but that's bloody rude for a goa'uld. By any normal standard of diplomacy she should have called ahead. Even Lord Bastet would have done that unless I'd really pissed her off, if only to ensure that we had quarters ready for her.
"I will return at once." I close the communication channel and duck back into the armoury. "I'm sorry, but something's come up that needs my personal attention. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves while I'm away."
Roboneil raises his eyebrows. "Because… We needed your permission to do that?"
I shrug. "You might have assumed that I was monitoring everything that happened inside a secure area, and that might have impeded the freedom of your discussion. I'm telling you that you don't need to worry about that. Excuse me."
Where is she-? Right. Transition.
I appear miles away from the armoury, in what was the great receiving room. I haven't done much in the way of renovation to it because I didn't think it would see any use. And there's Heset, her guards and her First Prime who's raising his Ma'Tok-.
I transfer it into my right hand and jab the butt right into his pouch. Then I drop it onto the floor for him to pick up before fanning out my hands and smiling at Heset.
"Lady Heset. I wasn't expecting you, otherwise I would have been here to greet you. To what do I owe the pleasure of your company?"
She slowly draws a deep breath, eyes flickering to her First Prime who has one hand on his Zat'nik'tel and shaking her head. "Lord Mammon. System Lord Bastet has commanded me to speak with you in private on a matter of great urgency. Where may we speak?"
I raise my left hand, making orange lights circle around us before transitioning us to my private reception room.
"Here." She takes a moment to adjust to her new location, then reaches her right hand to her chest... Maybe she's checking that all of her materialised? "This is a violation of protocol, Lady Heset. System Lord Bastet has not lost my gate coordinates. What do you want?"
"Lady Bastet has… Your reward. She suggested that you might find it helpful if you had another goa'uld to aid you."
"Hardly. Few goa'uld would have the perspective, even if they could technically aid me. I don't want to have to deal with a would-be usurper's psychosis."
Oh, there's her perfume again. I really don't see the appeal.
"There are ways around that. Lady Bastet has acquired the service of a goa'uld queen to provide her Jaffa with Prim'ta. If you were to sire a brood, that would ensure that they shared your mindset."
"Assuming that the queen cooperated and didn't add other instructions."
Plus I… Well, I could use my scans of goa'uld physiology to add goa'uld host additives to my blood stream, it wouldn't be mine and it wouldn't have my genetically encoded memories in it. I'm fairly sure that the queen would notice that. I haven't even tried decoding goa'uld genetic memory. Though-. If the Altairians can create memory downloads it might be possible to work something out, maybe?
Heset takes a step closer, right hand rubbing her chest again. "I was… Instructed to get a sample… Personally."
The smell of her perfume is a bit-.
Wait. Scan.
…
Oh you cheeky minx. Pull.
A small part of her robe bursts as the aerosol lands in my left hand. I glare at it, then at her.
"What exactly was this supposed to do to me?"
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Darko
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Did he even have one at that time?
If I remember correctly, he didn't, just the staff.
Hmm, so she may be a Tok'ra and that was her trying to use that mind-altering gas on him.
Plus, you don't exactly have any organic Goa'uld bits in you.
Well, so much for that.
Now if this is a Tok'ra, then maybe she was planning on assassinating him to prevent the Goa'uld from becoming smarter.
Or, she might honestly want to help him.
I remember reading a Goa'uld SI fic in which the Tok'ra may have wanted to leave the SI alone and in power since he was benevolent.
Maybe she was trying to seduce Mammon to manipulate him, or she was interested in getting his genetic material so that they could potentially add it to the material that would go to the Goa'uld Queens and make future Goa'uld that aren't sociopaths.
Breadnaught
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Either your capital has so much space traffic, that you aren't notified of everything coming and going, or I'm wondering why you're only hearing of it after she's entered orbit and Ringed down.
You were consistant enough with this, that I'm wondering if it was an intentional change, but if not, it's Altair. Without the S.
They didn't exist at the time. The writers saw the need for a non-lethal weapon and introduced it later.
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Neruz
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He should have had one, as they are established later on to be the standard Jaffa sidearm. But the writers hadn't actually come up with Zats when that episode was filmed so they do not come into existence until later in episode 22.
e:
It's entirely possible to FTL straight into orbit using Stargate hyperdrives, so they might have only been there for a minute.
When Apophis attacks Earth he intentionally doesn't FTL straight to Earth because he enjoys terrorizing people and wants the Tau'ri to see him coming, thinking there is nothing they can do to stop him. But we see people FTL directly into and out of orbit many times throughout the series, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of advance warning when something is coming in at FTL.
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Chojin Patriarch
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Just as mistrustful of Goa-uld as his original, I see. What's the bet he's been passively-aggressively poking every chance he got the whole time? He does know they're on the same side, more or less, right?
You're not that important, Robo'neil. Alstair is useful for some side production, but really, Mammon didn't have to help you.
Yes, his Ring still holds charge, doesn't it?
This again? No, Robo'neil. It's because he has advanced technology. If you could fire the Ring up, you might be able to manage the same.
I mean, that was part of Stargate Command's mission, wasn't it? Try to acquire potent technology from any advanced cultures they encounter?
Yeah, one Goa'uld hears you talking back and you might find them taking exception on Mammon's behalf.
Love that he's proud of that.
Even so, Robo-Teal'c still feels the regret and shame over it...
...Oh for... Bra'tac didn't actually check, did he? Too afraid to risk exposing his disloyalty?
That's what this is about, then, isn't it? You're wondering if they had to die or not?
Imagine if Teal'c visited home, to find Robo-Teal'c there. That would be quite the awkward conversation.
And he knows you can say it normally. No blaming it on your accent.
...Oh, that can't be good, especially if he told his people not to call him.
Well, well. The Tok'ra agent making a move, is she?
A very big and very dangerous move. Anyone else and the Goa'uld would be pissed off. And likely to break things.
See? Basic diplomacy when you have super-weaponry. Especially with Mammon, who Bastet may well be suspicious he has things he's not showing her.
Well, given he's more or less the only access, there's not much you can do otherwise.
A reasonable suspicion, and I suppose he could listen in if he weren't kind of worried right now.
...I know you mean his abdominal larva-pouch, but I couldn't help picture Mammon racking his in the crotch.
Either way, it's a good lesson about checking before you pull a weapon....Yes, I'm sure she has. Heset must really be worrying about his projects if she's being this blatant.
Hmm... A communications device, perhaps? Is she literally wearing a hidden microphone and worried it lost signal there, I wonder? Then again, given her perfume...
He's not wrong, but better not let Bastet ever hear that sentiment.
Well, isn't that convenient.
Yeah, I don't think your symbiote construct Lantern is going to be particularly compatible with a Queen without some very clever Ring-work.
Ah, I see. Keeping a dispenser in her Victoria's Secret Compartment, eh?
Holy shit, she was using a pheromonal control gas?
Honestly, can't blame her for being careful. After all, she doesn't know you're not a particularly reasonable Goa'uld...
Hopefully Heset didn't make too many waves stopping by, or her cover is going to be so blown. You'd think a spy would be smarter than this, but given how poorly-considered some Tok'ra operations were...
I guess Mammon's operations were proving too dangerous for her to allow to continue without some measure of Tok'ra control. Hence the rushed visit and heavy use of mind-control perfume...
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Neruz
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It is important to remember that while they were freed from the curse of the Goa'uld genetic memory of evil, the Tok'ra are still Goa'uld in nature.You'd think a spy would be smarter than this, but given how poorly-considered some Tok'ra operations were...
And most Goa'uld are remarkably poor planners, they have a tendency to assume that everything will just go the way they expect it to go and make no contingency plans.
Lord Ernest
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Finally! This little spy's scheme has come to the front!
I honestly don't know what the objective is, though. Coerce or replace Mammon? Take him out? Also, I've never been sure if Heset was always a Tok'Ra or if she got replaced by a spy.
And in the end, Mammon has expressed his opinion about the Tok'Ra but that was to SG Command, so I don't know if they were genuing thoughts. So once he unravels this spy, will he sell them to Bastet or try to cut a deal? This is getting really interesting.
I honestly don't know what the objective is, though. Coerce or replace Mammon? Take him out? Also, I've never been sure if Heset was always a Tok'Ra or if she got replaced by a spy.
And in the end, Mammon has expressed his opinion about the Tok'Ra but that was to SG Command, so I don't know if they were genuing thoughts. So once he unravels this spy, will he sell them to Bastet or try to cut a deal? This is getting really interesting.
Darko
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Jack's passive-aggressive with everyone.
Plus, being suspicious is a good thing.
Even the nicest are ultimately out for themselves.
I mean, yeah.
Honestly, asking them would have been extremely risky.
There's the chance that they were loyal and by asking them that he reveals that he's disloyal and they could kill him.
Yeah, finding your robot double raising your kid would be awkward.
Or it could be the start of a sitcom.
My Robot Dad.
I can see that guy that tried to make an SG show in universe trying something like that.
Heck, even if they were made smarter, they may not have much of a chance to use it.
Most Goa'uld are basically cliche evil, so they can have predictable patters, and the Tok'ra have gotten so used to fighting those patterns that new tactics may be difficult.
Mr Zoat
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As far as I remember, the writers hadn't invented them yet. But according to the background they weren't a new intervention, and as First Prime he should have had one.
They don't have the equipment to monitor it. Mammon's view is that getting ships or stations doesn't really help him, so if he's not looking for ships they don't spot them until they can see them with the naked eye.
Thank you, corrected.
Also, consistent.
iamnuff
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He probably ought to get whatever system ships use to locate other ships and install it in his palace.
Knowing when a ship enters your atmosphere is kind of important.
WereDragon
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He is a jackass but at least he can take as good as he gives.
Also might I suggest Marmite? Love it or hate it.
Also nice to see Mammon being less deferential outside the polite etiquette of Bastet court.
Mr Zoat
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I doubt he's heard of Marmite.
Only if you can do something about it.
At the moment his protection lies in the fact that
1) he doesn't have anything other goa'uld would want
2) he's inside Bastet's territory
3) Bastet likes him
4) his other neighbours like him
He doesn't have ships, anti-orbital guns or anyone to man them if he got them.
Mr Zoat
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Why would he have been told?
iamnuff
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Bastet keeps asking him what he wants in exchange for helping her improve her shit, and he keeps giving non-answers.
"decent orbital defences" is a pretty sensible thing to ask for.
Especially since he clearly does have something that other System Lords want, and might be willing to fight Bastet to get. (The ability to vastly improve the performance of their foot-soldiers over that of their direct competitors)
Also, Gould Technology is generally idiot-proofed enough for Jaffa to use. I'm sure whatever oribital cannons they use are point-and-shoot.
Hell, who even builds Go'uld ships? The Jaffa are generally idiot peasant villagers being used as slave-soldiers/gestation chambers for junior symbiotes.
The 'gods' themselves have the genetic technological knowledge, but I can't imagine them ever getting their hands dirty with real work.
Maybe that's just because most of the actual Go'uld we see are system lords though?
Surely they have engineers and stuff, right? An endless supply of unskilled slave-labour can't build everything.
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