With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Jul 23, 2019

6th February
07:32 GMT -5

I take the bowl of porridge off my tray like some sort of caveman and put it down on our table. Then I repeat the process with my glass of orange jui-.

Artemis gives me a condescending look. "What are you doing?"

I smile at her. "Normalcy."

"You're out of practice."

"Yes."

I stow my tray on an unused chair with the rest, then pull up my own chair and sit down. Next, I open up the little sachet of honey -no golden syrup here- and pour it into the porridge. Normally we all go home for breakfast, but Paula suggested this for our expanded group. Ugh, and the honey's.. sticking to the sachet and.. I can't get the spoon in…

"…but you're keeping his name?"

Paula nods at Karon's comment. "Yes. It's on all of my paperwork. I am used to it now. And it would not be fair to judge the rest of his family by Lawrence's behavior."

"And I'd find calling you 'Tuyet Nguyen' really weird."

Holly looks confused. "I thought you were called 'Paula'. I'm.. sorry-."

Paula shakes her head with a quiet laugh. "Lots of people from Asia take Western names for the sake of convenience. I've been 'Paula' for even longer than I've been 'Crock'."

"So you don't, like, mind?"

Paula smiles, shrugging. "No. Why should I?"

"Ah… I.. guess. It.. just… I mean, I wouldn't pick a new name if I moved to Vietnam."

Paula raises her eyebrows. "Are you sure? You don't want me to choose one for you? I think you would make a delightful Hau Li."

Holly focuses her eyes on her bagel. "Er… No."

"Hey, Paul." I look over to Artemis. "I was wondering something."

"And what was that?"

"I was talking to Wally about names. If you and Jade do get married, is she taking yours or are you taking hers?"

"Why, does Artemis West not work for you and you want moral support? Because I don't think Wallace Crock sounds any better."

Karon shakes her head. "Who's 'Wally'?"

"The guy I'm dating."

Paula looks mildly concerned. "Artemis..?"

"No, we're not-. Getting married, Mom. It just.. came up."

"Would I take her name?"

Four sets of female eyes swing my way, and Artemis nods.

"Would I take her name..? Over the name that not only can I not say, not only can I not think, but I haven't actually even been able to communicate to anyone?"

"Oh." Artemis dips her eyes. "Yeah."

"Yes, yes I would. As long as she agrees to rationalise the spelling."

"Rational-?" Artemis frowns, then nods. "Right."

Holly frowns. "So you'd be Paul Crock?"

Paula shakes her head. "Jade uses my maiden name. Nguyen."

"What's wrong with 'Win'?"

"The person who came up with romanisations for Vietnamese pictograms was some sort of moron, that's what. 'Win' is spelt En-Gee-You-Why-Ee-En."

Holly blinks. "Huh?"

"Yes, that was my response the first time I saw it written down as well. I was thinking… Double Ewe-Why-En-En?" I look at Paula and raise my eyebrows interrogatively.

She shrugs and shakes her head. "If you like? If that is how you feel then I think you should talk to Jade about it."

"Of all the things I worry about in our relationship, what name we might pick is a long way down the list." I look at Holly and Karon. "What about you two? I don't know how it works with lesbians."

Holly and Karon exchange an awkward glance, then Karon wobbles her head from side to side.

"There isn't a rule. I guess… People just do what works for them, I think… Just keep our own names..?"

Holly nods. "I think… Yeah? I wouldn't-" She turns to face Karon. "-mind if it mattered to you, but.. I'd… Find it weird? Changing my name?" Holly looks at me. "So what happens if you get your name back?"

"Then Jade and I would have to have an actual conversation about it. But since my family is still back on Earth Prime… That connection is much less important."

And I'm not really all that fond-.

I catch myself before my face hits the bowl. Karon looks concerned while Holly lets out a surprised snort of laughter. "You been running too hard?"

"And now I'm going to stop talking about this, because thinking about my name makes me faint."

I start working my way through my bowl. It's… Eh. One of the problems with my ring enhancements is that it makes cooking well extremely easy. So restaurants just… Don't have that much appeal, let alone cafés like this. Oh, these things are sent to try us.

"Paul?" Karon pushes aside her cereal bowl. "Could you.. tell me something?"

"I can tell you many things. Can you be more precise?"

A minor eye-roll. "Have you ever checked out anyone in front of Jade and told her about it?"

Holly sags slightly. "Karon, I said I was sorry."

"No, I-. I don't want to be over-sensitive about this? I know you're more open about.. physical attraction than I am, and… I don't want to be a bitch about it."

"You're not, it's-."

I nod. "Yes."

"Oh." Karon frowns while Holly looks mildly curious. "Who?"

I nod at Paula. "I mean, it's nice to know that I'll still find Jade attractive when she's fifty, but she's told me-"

Karon's eyes widen and Holly tries to find the breath to giggle. Paula shakes her head while Artemis cringes.

"-that it makes her uncomfortable if I keep doing it, so aside from the occasional joke I've stopped. Actually, Paula, now that you're a free woman-."

"You are dating my daughter."

"Not me, but have you thought about dating again?"

Paula blinks in what I'm reasonably sure is affected surprise. "What makes you think I'm not dating now?"

I smile as Artemis cringes further.

"Who's the lucky person?"

Buggy123 · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Paula shake her head with a quiet laugh.

Should be plural, "shakes".

Ganurath · Jul 23, 2019

Well, Grayven recommended a match with Bruce Wayne, but it's a day late and a dollar short in this continuity. I predict...

...I predict that we're going to have a scene transition, and we're not going to find out until later in the episode.

Handlewithcare · Jul 23, 2019

Aw, not even married to Jade yet and he is already acting like a brother to Artemis, enjoying her pain >: )

SebazuD · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
The person who came up with romanisations for Vietnamese pictograms was some sort of moron, that's what. 'Win' is spelt En-Gee-You-Why-Ee-En."

Holly blinks. "Huh?"

"Yes, that was my response the first time I saw it written down as well. I was thinking… Double Ewe-Why-En-En?" I look at Paula and raise my eyebrows interrogatively.

......I'd forgotten about this.
Why Zoat?
Why!?
Why write the pronunciation of the individual letters when this is a written medium?

helios · Jul 23, 2019

SebazuD said:
......I'd forgotten about this.
Why Zoat?
Why!?
Why write the pronunciation of the individual letters when this is a written medium?

I'd always imagined the primary motivator was spite.

SebazuD · Jul 23, 2019

helios said:
I'd always imagined the primary motivator was spite.

That's a very plausible reason.

Mr Zoat · Jul 23, 2019

Buggy123 said:
Should be plural, "shakes".

Thank you, corrected.

Simonbob · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Paula blinks in what I'm reasonably sure is affected surprise. "What makes you think I'm not dating now?"

I smile as Artemis cringes further.

"Who's the lucky person?"

Ah, parenting.

Mr Zoat said:
"The Jade and I would have to have an actual conversation about it. But since my family is still back on Earth Prime… That connection is much less important."

"That, Jade and I"

Buggy123 · Jul 23, 2019

So, Nguyen is prounounced "win"? I thought it was "Ng-uu-en", with a hard G sound. Apparently a silent G is a thing, though.

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
I stow my tray on an unused chair with the rest, then pull up my own chair and sit down. Next, I open up the little sachet of honey -no golden syrup here- and pour it into the porridge. Normally we all go home for breakfast, but Paula suggested this for our expanded group. Ugh, and the honey's.. sticking to the sachet and.. I can't get the spoon in…

We've all had that sort of thing happen.

Paula nods at Karon's comment. "Yes. It's on all of my paperwork. I am used to it now. And it would not be fair to judge the rest of his family by Lawrence's behavior."

They are pretty cool folks, barring the jerk.

Paula raises her eyebrows. "Are you sure? You don't want me to choose one for you? I think you would make a delightful Hau Li."

Pronounced exactly the same, I expect?

Paul looks mildly concerned. "Artemis..?"

Heh. I'd be worried too if my sixteen-year-old daughter was talking about marriage.

"Would I take her name..? Over the name that not only can I not say, not only can I not think, but I haven't actually even been able to communicate to anyone?"

Well, when you put it like that...

"The person who came up with romanisations for Vietnamese pictograms was some sort of moron, that's what. 'Win' is spelt En-Gee-You-Why-Ee-En."

Seriously, what language would even spell that sound like that?

"Yes, that was my response the first time I saw it written down as well. I was thinking… Double Ewe-Why-En-En?" I look at Paula and raise my eyebrows interrogatively.

'Wynn', much like Peter on Earth-12. Interesting choice.

"Of all the things I worry about in our relationship, what name we might pick is a long way down the list." I look at Holly and Karon. "What about you two? I don't know how it works with lesbians."

Blunt as ever, OL.

"The Jade and I would have to have an actual conversation about it.

"Then Jade and I would have to have an actual conversation about it.

I start working my way through my bowl. It's… Eh. One of the problems with my ring enhancements is that it makes cooking well extremely easy. So restaurants just… Don't have that much appeal, let alone cafés like this. Oh, these things are sent to try us.

Heh. And if it tastes bad, the ring could have altered your perception of taste...

"I can tell you many things. Can you be more precise?"

"Do not ask an Eldar a question. They will give you three answers, and all will be true and terrifying."

A minor eye-roll. "Have you ever checked out anyone in front of Jade and told her about it?"

Wow, she was really insulted by that, wasn't she? Holly's got a lot of making up to do...

Karon's eyes widen and Holly tries to find the breath to giggle. Paula a shakes her head while Artemis cringes.

Awkward... Also: extraneous a.

I smile as Artemis cringes further.

And now it goes from awkward to funny.

Heh. Love these fluff pieces before the plot gets started. Always entertaining.

Ancalador · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"The Jade and I would have to have an actual conversation about it.

All Hail The Jade, first of her name!

...pretty sure that should be then.

Mr Zoat · Jul 23, 2019

Simonbob said:
"That, Jade and I"

Chojin Patriarch said:
Karon's eyes widen and Holly tries to find the breath to giggle. Paula a shakes her head while Artemis cringes.
Awkward... Also: extraneous a.

Thank you, corrected.

"I can tell you many things. Can you be more precise?"
"Do not ask an Eldar a question. They will give you three answers, and all will be true and terrifying."

"Get lost mon keigh" isn't exactly terrifying.

Ganurath · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Paul looks mildly concerned. "Artemis..?"

Pretty sure this should be Paula, not Paul.

Doccer · Jul 23, 2019

Ganurath said:
They were too busy bootstrapping what the Justice League had set up in order to properly crack down on villains, and even then they'd be more focused on the ones doing actual crime. At most, they'd swing in, check on things, see that they weren't the only interdimensional travelers cleaning up this backwater dimension, and go along their merry way.

Mr Zoat said:
I don't think that the Lords were on Earth for more than a couple of days, perhaps only a day. They probably weren't aware that Peter exists, and I doubt that they would have had a problem with his work.

Actually I somewhat disagree:
Not so much that they wouldn't leave him and his alone till other more immediate concerns and supervillains are dealt with. But leave him completly unmolested? I believe they actually would've had a problem this.
So:
When I watched that episode of the Justice Lords I got a distinct sense that the Justice Lords had just...given up. You can see their resignation and a bit of apprehension at the moment they hear Lex Luthor broke out again and the pointlessness of going back the merry-go-round and the reaffirming that they will kill again, that they are choosing to walk down this path again.
Once they fought believing that by stopping the threats of today to ensure a better tomorrow, or at least that there would be a tomorrow. But after that whole thing with Luthor and his shitiness being a sign that the same threats would always be there and get worse they gave up. Then created a peaceful world with all the clinicalness of a lab and lied to themselves by confusing 'good' and 'perfect'.

I really do believe that they would see what Peter has done and be confused and worried that somebody has made a better world by converting supervillains and taking them out of circulation. Doing what they never could. Batman probably could but he is pretty galvanized about villians.
So I imagine that they would have disbelief like the Justice League and others but firmer. More seriously worried (possibly) that he is a more successful, hiding in plain sight, Lex Luthor just waiting for the shoe to drop. Becuase they'd be hard-pressed to accept that their way isn't the only way but also there is obviously a better way right in front of them. And this means they were/are wrong. Would they accept this?
I think they would put him aside till all other threats are killed or lobotomized but might take advantage of the next supervillain relapse and might possibly try to get a few more who were only protecting the company, the Lord's just 'misjudged the situation'.
That is just an outline of what I think would happen if they stuck around.

Mastigos2 · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Get lost mon keigh" isn't exactly terrifying.

It can be when accompanied by mind control to become lost and unable to find your way

Someguy Somewhere · Jul 23, 2019

SebazuD said:
......I'd forgotten about this.
Why Zoat?
Why!?
Why write the pronunciation of the individual letters when this is a written medium?

I figure it's fallout from Star Wars writers. They never did settle on it for droid naming.

See-Threepio and Artoo-Detoo get written often enough that it does stand out between different authors that go for the alternative.

Mr Zoat · Jul 23, 2019

Ganurath said:
Pretty sure this should be Paula, not Paul.

Thank you, corrected.

gustyeagle · Jul 23, 2019

Someguy Somewhere said:
I figure it's fallout from Star Wars writers. They never did settle on it for droid naming.

See-Threepio and Artoo-Detoo get written often enough that it does stand out between different authors that go for the alternative.

I've never seen anything other than artoo spelled out. It makes me wonder if some one has made an ascii art book but sold it as a piece of literature.

Cuchulin · Jul 23, 2019

Doccer said:
I really do believe that they would see what Peter has done and be confused and worried that somebody has made a better world by converting supervillains and taking them out of circulation. Doing what they never could. Batman probably could but he is pretty galvanized about villians.
So I imagine that they would have disbelief like the Justice League and others but firmer. More seriously worried (possibly) that he is a more successful, hiding in plain sight, Lex Luthor just waiting for the shoe to drop. Becuase they'd be hard-pressed to accept that their way isn't the only way but also there is obviously a better way right in front of them. And this means they were/are wrong. Would they accept this?
I think they would put him aside till all other threats are killed or lobotomized but might take advantage of the next supervillain relapse and might possibly try to get a few more who were only protecting the company, the Lord's just 'misjudged the situation'.
That is just an outline of what I think would happen if they stuck around.

Truggs was correct in saying that Super Heroes are basically reactive and so mostly useless when it comes to making the world a better place unless it involves 'righteous face punching'. Mind you they generally do a pretty good job of keeping things from getting worse but not much more.

TheEyes · Jul 23, 2019

Gilhelmi said:
Thank God none of these idiots wear 2-4 inch heels or I would be begging Mr. Zoat to destroy them as well. (Heels are for fashion, NOT combat......... Unless you are a horse archer/riflemen then 1/2 inch is useful to get a better footing on the stirrups. Like cowboy boots.) I swear, I have lost my voice yelling at Justice League Action and RWBY (and others) because of "fashion" heels.

One thing heels do very well is help with identify concealment. I distinctly remember women whom I've worked with for years who I just didn't recognize because they had to wear flats one day; knowing intellectually that someone has to be shorter than they seem and actually seeing it are two very different things. So long as the super in question has flight as one of their defining abilities (Supergirl, Rocket, etc) I could definitely see heels being used for the same purpose as masks and body-shaping suits, for people serious about concealing their identities.

Buggy123 said:
So, Nguyen is prounounced "win"? I thought it was "Ng-uu-en", with a hard G sound. Apparently a silent G is a thing, though.

The "G" is (mostly) silent, but, importantly, neither "N" is. The name is pronounced more like "Ng-wein", with the "g" almost completely silent, than it is "Win".

Frankly Paul is revealing himself to be a bit of a barbarian here, totally butchering the pronunciation of his girlfriend's last name in front of her family.

Mquz · Jul 23, 2019

TheEyes said:
One thing heels do very well is help with identify concealment. I distinctly remember women whom I've worked with for years who I just didn't recognize because they had to wear flats one day; knowing intellectually that someone has to be shorter than they seem and actually seeing it are two very different things. So long as the super in question has flight as one of their defining abilities (Supergirl, Rocket, etc) I could definitely see heels being used for the same purpose as masks and body-shaping suits, for people serious about concealing their identities.

The "G" is (mostly) silent, but, importantly, neither "N" is. The name is pronounced more like "Ng-wein", with the "g" almost completely silent, than it is "Win".

Frankly Paul is revealing himself to be a bit of a barbarian here, totally butchering the pronunciation of his girlfriend's last name in front of her family.

Win is still preety accurate, if you say it all British-like (in an English accent). As the video sais, it's in the accents. Maybe "New Ying" is a bit more accurate. Also, that sounds like it's 3 characters, and you sort of have to represent each character the same way, no matter the context, so something like a silent g would also be useful if it was also sometimes present in the character pronunciation, and would be left out at the ends of words

TheEyes · Jul 23, 2019

Mquz said:
Win is still preety accurate, if you say it all British-like (in an English accent). Maybe "New Yen" is a bit more accurate. Also, that sounds like it's at least 2 characters, and you sort of have to represent each character the same way, no matter the context, so something like a silent g would also be useful if it was also sometimes present in the character pronounciation

I learned how to pronounce Nguyen in high school because one of my classmates was Vietnamese. Paul is just coming off like a cad here: "I can't bother to learn to properly pronounce your daughter's chosen last name, and am indignant that I can't just change it to something totally Anglicanized because it's easier on my tongue." For a guy who just spent a paragraph bragging about how his ring lets him perform any skill like an expert, the fact that he can't be bothered to properly pronounce his girlfriend's name says a lot about how important this relationship is to him.

Buggy123 · Jul 23, 2019

TheEyes said:
I learned how to pronounce Nguyen in high school because one of my classmates was Vietnamese. Paul is just coming off like a cad here: "I can't bother to learn to properly pronounce your daughter's chosen last name, and am indignant that I can't just change it to something totally Anglicanized because it's easier on my tongue." For a guy who just spent a paragraph bragging about how his ring lets him perform any skill like an expert, the fact that he can't be bothered to properly pronounce his girlfriend's name says a lot about how important this relationship is to him.

I don't think that meshes well with what we've seen of Paul's relationship with Jade; he clearly does care about her and their relationship and put in significant amounts of effort. So it doesn't seem consistent with that for him to knowingly pronounce it incorrectly.

Maybe it's just a slight difference in pronunciation? Even if you speak the same language and even the same dialect, there's still a fair bit of variation between regions/groups, and even individuals tend to pronounce some things differently. "win" is already relatively close to the correct pronunciation, so maybe that's just the pronunciation that they use. I mean, Paula and her children have been living in the states for a while and they're fluent in english, it's perfectly possible that there's been a little mixing between the two languages.

Fouredged · Jul 23, 2019

I used to work in a Vietnamese heavy manufacturing plant. Everyone there pronounced it exactly like "Gwen" much to the confusion of the one American Gwen who worked there.

It is also a placeholder name. Many coming over had no last name by western standards. They generally just put a random name for ther last name.

Hell's Razer · Jul 23, 2019

TheEyes said:
The "G" is (mostly) silent, but, importantly, neither "N" is. The name is pronounced more like "Ng-wein", with the "g" almost completely silent, than it is "Win".

Frankly Paul is revealing himself to be a bit of a barbarian here, totally butchering the pronunciation of his girlfriend's last name in front of her family.

Wait, so their family name is pronounced like the sound a sword being unsheathed makes? Awesome.

Ngamer11 · Jul 23, 2019

Mr Zoat, since Paul has no idea what Dame Carol Danvers is doing in Universe 16, that means he just pointed out where the Zamarons live, and is assuming she'll visit, spend some time there, and then return home on her own. Is that in anyway going to bite him?

Second question. If it's not to spoilery, will we see Savitr soon? We only heard of him in an offhand way when the Team took down the remnants of the Cult of the Kobra. We know he is pretty much behind the kidnapping of the last member of the Blue Trinity, and is probably going to kidnap as many speedsters in order to power himself and his cult. Is he in the works for this year, or later in the story?

Eponymic · Jul 23, 2019

If DC has a UTF equivelant, why bother with latin characters at all? Chữ Nôm and Han are both things.

frozenchicken · Jul 23, 2019

Buggy123 said:
So, Nguyen is prounounced "win"? I thought it was "Ng-uu-en", with a hard G sound. Apparently a silent G is a thing, though.

I've always thought it was 'Nyu-wen'. Preferably said fast.

Mr Zoat · Jul 23, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
Mr Zoat, since Paul has no idea what Dame Carol Danvers is doing in Universe 16, that means he just pointed out where the Zamarons live, and is assuming she'll visit, spend some time there, and then return home on her own. Is that in anyway going to bite him?

There are consequences, certainly.

Second question. If it's not to spoilery, will we see Savitr soon? We only heard of him in an offhand way when the Team took down the remnants of the Cult of the Kobra. We know he is pretty much behind the kidnapping of the last member of the Blue Trinity, and is probably going to kidnap as many speedsters in order to power himself and his cult. Is he in the works for this year, or later in the story?

I'd honestly forgotten about him, but now that I've been reminded I'm sure that he'll show up eventually.

With regards to the name thing, the guide I looked at said it could be pronounced 'win' or 'n-wen'. The one time her name was mentioned in the series I'm pretty sure it was pronounced 'win', which is why the SI is saying this. Unless that turns out to be totally wrong and no one in Vietnam says it like that, I'm going to rule that that's how Jade says it as well.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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