With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Old Knife]

....... I wonder which one is doing more to detail boss smiley. I think it's Renegrayven.

 

[Prince Charon]

There have to be at least some...

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Did Paul ever follow up on that?

Arisia has already appeared in the story.

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When?

 

[Pinklestia]

What about Wee Hughie's parents? Or Annie?

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When the comic first makes you root for the Boys and then shows them being monsters, nope, there aren't.

In Worm you have Weld and Dragon as absolutely good people that do the best they can. Then you have Taylor who is basically a person who does what is needed, even it it means killing a baby. You have Armsmaster who cares about glory more than following the rules and his own teammates lives but gets better thanks to his romance with Dragon.

And then you have everyone else who makes you go "Things can't be that bad, right? I mean since Taylor is the POV character then maybe she exaggerated a a tad."

Then you read Ward and you are like "No, Taylor wasn't exaggerating, i anything she was understating things."

Also the Boys falls flat because is too darn long for the theme subject.

They could have perfectly done it with half the comics, 60 issues make you get bored of it.

 

[Chaoswind]

Did Paul ever follow up on that?


When?

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When Paul went to Oa and got attacked by the trainees.

 

[Prince Charon]

When Paul went to Oa and got attacked by the trainees.

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OK, now I remember. Apparently she's going to be on Earth some time soon. It should be interesting to see how much she's learned.

 

[Yog]

So, I have to ask, because I'm damn curious:
1) What is Hitler's clone doing in Renegade timeline? Because if I recall correctly Kriegers should be still alive there.
2) What is Hitler's clone doing in Paragon timeline? Because "I discovered that I was a clone of Hitler, then got several million dollars in untraceable cash for killing a nazi arch-mage with the Spear of Destiny" sounds like a superhero origin to me. Are there any chances we'll see a Hitler Clone superhero?

 

[Mr Zoat]

So, I have to ask, because I'm damn curious:
1) What is Hitler's clone doing in Renegade timeline? Because if I recall correctly Kriegers should be still alive there.

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The Kriegers are keeping half an eye on him, but without the arcanotechnology the SI saw developed he can't perform the God-Fuhrer ritual yet.

2) What is Hitler's clone doing in Paragon timeline? Because "I discovered that I was a clone of Hitler, then got several million dollars in untraceable cash for killing a nazi arch-mage with the Spear of Destiny" sounds like a superhero origin to me.

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He donated a great deal of it to the orphanage where he grew up. He's using some of the rest to return to university to study for an architecture doctorate.

Are there any chances we'll see a Hitler Clone superhero?

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Technically yes, but it's not a very big one.

 

[Lord Ernest]

It makes me curious, why would Arisia come to Earth? If she finishes training then doesn't she have a Sector to take care of? Are the Guardians assigning her as Guy's 'Sidekick' or something like that?

And it amuses me that Grayven's Earth is the one that looks most different in a geo-political sense, to me at least, while the Illustres' Earth is the one most different to regular people, in a daily basis.

 

[Mquz]

The Kriegers are keeping half an eye on him, but without the arcanotechnology the SI saw developed he can't perform the God-Fuhrer ritual yet.

He donated a great deal of it to the orphanage where he grew up. He's using some of the rest to return to university to study for an architecture doctorate.

Technically yes, but it's not a very big one.

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Ah, but Hitler did much the same with art. So when he returns he will be The Architect of the fourth Reich, which shall attempt to unite all peoples of the Earth in peace and one international government. Really, Hitler was the closest our Earth has preety much ever had to a Supervillain.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ah, but Hitler did much the same with art. So when he returns he will be The Architect of the fourth Reich, which shall attempt to unite all peoples of the Earth in peace and one international government. Really, Hitler was the closest our Earth has preety much ever had to a Supervillain.

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I think that Christopher Columbus was closer.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

He is decreasing them!

Or they'll send one who isn't an arsehole. Or they'll stop bothering.

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Ironically killing them is probably a half measure, the Chaos (whatever the fuck it is) probably doesn't care about the fates of individual chaos lords. Does it? (unless I'm wrong)

and didn't Grayven swear to kill any Choas lord he comes across?

 

[Mquz]

I think that Christopher Columbus was closer.

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I'd say Columbus wasn't that bad. People who followed him were way worse. There's nothing bad about the motives behind introducing invasive species, and the worst thing he did was enslaving natives to go gold mining. Lots of people did worse after him on a much larger scale.

 

[Aeess]

I'd say Columbus wasn't that bad. People who followed him were way worse. There's nothing bad about the motives behind introducing invasive species, and the worst thing he did was enslaving natives to go gold mining. Lots of people did worse after him on a much larger scale.

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You realize that he was even bad in his time, like he was even arrested for his tyranny that inlcuded torture and mutilating natives for minor offenses. It took a lot of unnecessary cruelty back then for people to make note of it and he achieved that.

 

[Mquz]

You realize that he was even bad in his time, like he was even arrested for his tyranny that inlcuded torture and mutilating natives for minor offenses. It took a lot of unnecessary cruelty back then for people to make note of it and he achieved that.

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Yes, and later people, such as plantation owners, or Spanish conquistadors did worse, just with no arrest since everyone else around was doing something similar, though possibly less so. Columbus' evil was on a small scale.

 

[Old Knife]

And thus he starts the orange lantern tradition of creating a warband?

 

[Shotiegun11]

"Guess they figure they can trust me. They wanna see if I can do the stuff he did, so's they shared their old records."

"And Jordan?"

"Nah, they just gave him a rookie t' train. Maybe they think I'm the smart one?" He smiles. "Alright, let's go see how far Xor's got fixin' his ship."

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It makes me curious, why would Arisia come to Earth? If she finishes training then doesn't she have a Sector to take care of? Are the Guardians assigning her as Guy's 'Sidekick' or something like that?

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[RichardWhereat]

It's always amusing that the Lanterns always seem to just be hanging out in the USA, on Earth, rather than patrolling their sector. Perhaps a teleportation device linking the main terrestrial satellite of each sentient species in the sector to each other should be set up so that the lanterns can do a daily check of their responsibilities.

Maybe put out sensor arrays to search for pirates, and hand out GL Transponders to civilian chips in the event of space piracy?

Perhaps connect up a few trade routes between the sectors sentient species for civilian space trade? Although Paul might use that to support his supervillain buddy again.

 

[Chaoswind]

Yes, and later people, such as plantation owners, or Spanish conquistadors did worse, just with no arrest since everyone else around was doing something similar, though possibly less so. Columbus' evil was on a small scale.

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The Genocide of the Taino can be laid mostly on his feet and unlike the other genocides in the Americas, the genocide was a result of his policies, not just disease and neglect.

 

[Cuchulin]

Ah, but Hitler did much the same with art. So when he returns he will be The Architect of the fourth Reich, which shall attempt to unite all peoples of the Earth in peace and one international government. Really, Hitler was the closest our Earth has preety much ever had to a Supervillain.

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I think that Christopher Columbus was closer.

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Stalin comes close and Hitler has the excuse of being a Drug addict that shot up with Amphetamines as well as other things everyday.

Yes, and later people, such as plantation owners, or Spanish conquistadors did worse, just with no arrest since everyone else around was doing something similar, though possibly less so. Columbus' evil was on a small scale.

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Agreed, especially the later ones who were looking for cities of gold in North America.

 

[RichardWhereat]

The Genocide of the Taino can be laid mostly on his feet and unlike the other genocides in the Americas, the genocide was a result of his policies, not just disease and neglect.

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No.



Just, no.

 

[Buggy123]

Columbus!

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Alternatively, there's always option C: Acknowledge that the question "is X person bad" is true for all X, and comparing relative badness is pretty much pointless because:

A: They're all really bad, so its hard to measure.
B: (For historical values of X) They're dead, so there isn't a whole lot of point to figuring out how bad they are because nothing can be done about it now. Unless you want to "learn from past mistakes" or something, but that'd just be silly, no one does that.

 

[Mr Zoat]

7th February
05:05 GMT

"O-kay."

I look around the cargo hull of Xor's reclaimed ship.

"Ten thousand bleed fracture personal communicators designed to look like commercially available brands with text, sound and video recording and transmission. Effectively unlimited data storage and able to interact with government monitored channels and charge from commercially available power points."

Onigar picks one up and taps the screen, working her way through the menu.

"I… Can see the use of it. But I was expecting you to do something more aggressive."

I shake my head. "Not a good idea. Intervention-in-force would require an army of occupation numbering in the billions. I don't have an army that big lying around." Though Dox is working on it. He probably could field a billion soldiers at this point, but most of them would be from allied worlds and their governments would only authorise them for fighting the Reach. "So we're using a prod-based strategy."

"Meaning?"

"Make it harder to get away with being bad, and make the punishment for grotesque violations extreme. So rather than citizens fearing government attack squads, malevolent government officials will fear the righteous retribution of Lantern Xor's team. Or such other individuals who might choose to act on the information they receive. And their own citizens will gain the ability to share evidence of malevolent activity with a device the government can't censor."

I shrug.

"This decay isn't the result of the activity of a single individual I could arrest or assassinate. Is it?"

"No."

"And I'm trying to ease up on mass killings. I'm.. afraid that this doesn't meet my threshold for that. This is… Going to have to be a long-term thing."

She looks around at the equipment racks. "How long will Xor be staying?"

"Until it's done."

"Doesn't he have other duties?"

"Yes: teaching me how to train people. Orange Lanterns aren't police. Police… Are supposed to be objective, disinterested servants of the law. Like Green Lanterns. Orange Lanterns fight the fights which matter to them as individuals. This is the most important thing in Lantern Xor's life." I shake my head. "I'd be a fool to try and order him away. When he's done… We'll see."

"Ten thousand won't be enough. My homeworld alone has a population-."

"While this is the most important thing in Lantern Xor's life, it isn't the most important thing in mine. This ship has the facilities to manufacture more but you'll have to organise that yourself."

"Avoiding the Alignment's fleet might be difficult."

"The ship has excellent stealth, and can move. And Lantern Xor is perfectly capable of moving the fabrication unit to a different location. But if you're directly engaging the Alignment's fleet then you're doing it wrong." I nod my head to the right. "I think. You know more about your culture than I do."

"And if I want to cause a civil war against a state ruled by the people who ordered my mother's death?"

I know that she doesn't, but I suppose that these things have a way of escalating.

"Then maybe that's for the best." I shrug. "I have an unusual insight into some areas, but my understanding of sociodynamics is nothing special. In the long run it may turn out to be better to have a war."

The door opens and Guy walks in. "You about finished in here?"

"I think so. You?"

"I'd rather have your job. Retribution missions ain't exactly in th' Green Lantern Corps playbook."

"On the positive side, you don't have to kill anyone."

"You don't have t' kill anyone."

"Yes, but if I did it wouldn't be a problem for me."

"Hm. You ever wonder 'bout that?"

"Occasionally. You picked a location?"

"Short term, sure. Long term I was thinkin' 'bout that place in Vega with the snailfuckers. Since yer headin' that way anyway."

"There's… Room, but I don't really want to dump a whole lot of different aliens in the same place."

"Hey." He pokes me in the chest. "You're the Illustres. You want someplace else t' dump people then plan fer it."

I hesitate before going with my instinctive response of 'I'd be happy just shooting them'. I don't think that argument would be productive.

"Isn't there a Green Lantern Corps marooning world marked out around here?"

"Sure. Problem is, th' Alignment's got good FTL. Ain't that hard t' find it."

"Fine, I'll take them." I won't be giving them anything more advanced than simple farming tools, so there shouldn't be that much trouble with the locals. And the Gordanians can take care of themselves. Need to check up on them when I'm there. "Need me for anything else?"

"Nah. Get outta here."

I nod and turn away, staring eyes unfocused. One nice thing about neural imprinting children with little or no life experience is that they end up looking rather similar to me. So the War Hound training facility is… There.

I raise my right hand to my forehead, and the ship vanishes.

To be replaced by another ship.

Interesting. I engage my armour's stealth systems and take a moment to look at it. The Alignment has been experimenting with FTL weapons, but their current generation have colossal power requirements that they struggle to meet. That results in them putting the guns on what are effectively battleship hulls, replacing large portions of the gunnery, armour and shields with generators and thrusters and turning it into an artillery vessel. It's not a terrible design, but the FTL weapon design they're using is more of a 'neat trick' rather than anything truly game-changing. Most of the power goes into bypassing physics rather than hitting the target, so this thing basically reaps small to mid-sized vessels and can't fight things of its own displacement.

Plenty of other ships in this area as well. The location isn't a shipyard-. No, it is, but for repair purposes only. They actually build their ships in systems with inhabited worlds. There are a few large space stations where they train a lot of their ship crews, and the planetside facility where new War Hounds are made.

It is nice that their technology doesn't let them track me while I'm actively evading them.

I point myself at the planet and activate my armour's thrusters.

 

[Ganurath]

Plenty of other ships in this area as well. The location isn't a shipyard-. No, it is, but for repair purposes only. They actually build[/i] their ships in systems with inhabited worlds. There are a few large space stations where they train a lot of their ship crews, and the planetside facility where new War Hounds are made.

It is nice that their technology doesn't let them track me while I'm actively evading them.

I point at the planet and activate my armour's thrusters.

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Formatting.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Formatting.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Buggy123]

Interesting. I engage my armour's stealth systems and take a moment to look at it. The Alignment has been experimenting with FTL weapons, but their current generation have colossal power requirements that they struggle to meet. That results in them putting the guns on what are effectively battleship hulls, replacing large portions of the gunnery, armour and shields with generators and thrusters and turning it into an artillery vessel. It's not a terrible design, but the FTL weapon design they're using are more of a 'neat trick' rather than anything truly game-changing. Most of the power goes in bypassing physics rather than hitting the target, so this thing basically reaps small to mid-sized vessels and can't fight things its own displacement.

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Heh, honestly I'd just stick with (near) lightspeed weapons, like lasers or high velocity coilguns. Ship-to-ship battles in this universe seem to take place at knife fight ranges, with none of the multi-thousand G accelerations you'd want to dodge lightspeed weapons at those ranges.

Unless it has some particular range or defense penetration advantage, a FTL weapon is a bit like using a guided missile to kill a turtle. Yeah, sure, it'd work, but it'd be cheaper to just drop a rock on it.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

"Ten thousand bleed fracture personal communicators designed to look like commercially available brands with text, sound and video recording and transmission. Effectively unlimited data storage and able to interact with government monitored channels and charge from commercially available power points."

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So basically, untraceable smartphones.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Make it harder to get away with being bad, and make the punishment for grotesque violations extreme. So rather than citizens fearing government attack squads, malevolent government officials will fear the righteously retribution of Lantern Xor's team. Or such other individuals who might chose to act on the information they receive. And their own citizens will gain the ability to share evidence of malevolent activity with a device the government can't censor."

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Bit hard to keep things secret when your foul play is on a hundred channels on the local Youtube equivalent.

She looks around at the equipment racks. "How long will Xor be staying?"

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"...Just out of.. Curiosity..."

"Yes: teaching me how to train people. Orange Lanterns aren't police. Police… Are supposed to be objective, disinterested servants of the law. Like Green Lanterns. Orange Lanterns fight the fights which matter to them as individuals. This is the most important thing in Lantern Xor's life." I shake my head. "I'd be a fool to try and order him away. When he's done… We'll see."

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I suspect it's one of the two most important things. No need to guess the other

I know that she doesn't, but I suppose that these things have a way of escalating.

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Especially when an Orange Lantern is involved and invested.

"Yes, but if I did it wouldn't be a problem for me."

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Of course, Green Lanterns being able to kill leads to bad things.

"Short term, sure. Long term I was thinkin' 'bout that place with in Vega with the snailfuckers. Since yer headin' that way anyway."

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Snailfu-... Does he mean the Gordanians?

"There's… Room, but I don't really want to dump a whole lot of different aliens in the same place."

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Eris only knows what it would get like when they meet up...

Interesting. I engage my armour's stealth systems and take a moment to look at it. The Alignment has been experimenting with FTL weapons, but their current generation have colossal power requirements that they struggle to meet. That results in them putting the guns on what are effectively battleship hulls, replacing large portions of the gunnery, armour and shields with generators and thrusters and turning it into an artillery vessel.

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Sounds sloppy.

...and can't fight things its own displacement.

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...and can't fight things of its own displacement.
(Or something similar, just to make it read better...)

Oh, boy. Things are about to get messy, aren't they?

 

[Sockmonkey]

Heh, honestly I'd just stick with (near) lightspeed weapons, like lasers or high velocity coilguns. Ship-to-ship battles in this universe seem to take place at knife fight ranges, with none of the multi-thousand G accelerations you'd want to dodge lightspeed weapons at those ranges.

Unless it has some particular range or defense penetration advantage, a FTL weapon is a bit like using a guided missile to kill a turtle. Yeah, sure, it'd work, but it'd be cheaper to just drop a rock on it.

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Plus the fact that some interdiction fields can no-sell many forms of FTL.

 

[Ancalador]

righteously retribution

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Righteous retribution.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Nice. Fight corruption with enlightenment and information.

I think the term is "susveillance", the observation of government institutions by the people.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Heh, honestly I'd just stick with (near) lightspeed weapons, like lasers or high velocity coilguns. Ship-to-ship battles in this universe seem to take place at knife fight ranges, with none of the multi-thousand G accelerations you'd want to dodge lightspeed weapons at those ranges.

Unless it has some particular range or defense penetration advantage, a FTL weapon is a bit like using a guided missile to kill a turtle. Yeah, sure, it'd work, but it'd be cheaper to just drop a rock on it.

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No, they take place at all sorts of ranges.

...and can't fight things its own displacement.
...and can't fight things of its own displacement.
(Or something similar, just to make it read better...)

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Righteous retribution.

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Thank you, corrected.