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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Korfayron said:
And zoat deals with the controversy that sparked the move in the first place, if people had shut the fuck up and waited or held their tongues then perhaps this situation would have been settled satisfactorily over on SV.
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No, because he got in trouble for repeating the anti-trans stuff out of story, especially the asinine and hurtful attack helicopter meme. The mods didn't care that Paul The Character was being an asshole, they cared that Paul The Author was violating SV's Rule 2.

And that's all I'll say about the matter because talking about trans stuff further would be, as per the mod notices in thread, violating QQ's Rule 8. Don't break the rules, folks!
 
Siskulous said:
Wait, wait, wait......people get rid of books? Whatever for?
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As much as people rave about not burning books, knowledge is good, etc, etc, there are some fairly worthless books out there; I don't think anyone is going to terribly miss something like a 10 year old celebrity tabloid magazine, or that 5th Edition of the Encyclopedia of Competitive Birdwatching that's missing a few pages and has a bit of water damage.

I mean, sure, keep a archive of them somewhere I guess. But beyond that, meh. There are a lot of books out there, and a lot of copies of those books. It's no tragedy to say "I really don't have anywhere to reasonably store this book" and get rid of it; if it's even remotely important as a cultural, knowledge, etc source, then there's probably someone who has a better copy archived. And they probably still do even if it isn't.
 
Huh...I dunno...I was expecting...more.

Maybe it was all the, completely unwarranted IMO, drama. But all this? This was damn tame.

Still, I do wonder how much more of a pain in the ass this is going to allow Truggs to be.
 
Handlewithcare said:
According to the wiki, there is no canon explanation for the Dial, right? How it works or who made it?
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Robbie's Dial, the one from the storyline Zoat incorporated for this, is a paradox, it's origin being that Robbie Reed sent it to the past where a caveman found it and essentially became Captain Caveman. Which now that I'm thinking about it would be a good source for the metagene in humanity.

Chris and Vicki's dials were made by the magic of the Wizard.

In China Miéville's series, the dials are relics of an ultraterrestrial civilization that mastered interdimensional shenanigans ala Worm, but since Zoat rarely uses stuff from post flashpoint he's unlikely to use that.

Since Robbie's dial has Interlac symbols on it, which at the time was only the language of the future of LoSH, I would presume that the writers intended for it to be from the future.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"I got it! If that dial had put my mind in Wonder Woman's body, I'd be Wonder Woman, right?"

… "Sort of."
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Like not at all? Body switch/change episodes tend to have the affected characters trying to get themselves back to the way they were. Pretty sure Steve Trevor would be spending his time with the real Wonder Woman. Or how about when Wonder Woman got changed into a pig by Circe in the Justice League cartoon? Was she a pig? Batman was trying to find her to change her back, not to make a BLT, even though it seemed like most of her mind was gone too. Your views on trans people aside, this argument just just seems to not make sense. Being put into the body of a different person, especially if it's via a dial copying that person and the person in question still has their original body, in no way makes you that person. It just makes you look like them.
 
Zig said:
Like not at all? Body switch/change episodes tend to have the affected characters trying to get themselves back to the way they were. Pretty sure Steve Trevor would be spending his time with the real Wonder Woman. Or how about when Wonder Woman got changed into a pig by Circe in the Justice League cartoon? Was she a pig? Batman was trying to find her to change her back, not to make a BLT, even though it seemed like most of her mind was gone too. Your views on trans people aside, this argument just just seems to not make sense. Being put into the body of a different person, especially if it's via a dial copying that person and the person in question still has their original body, in no way makes you that person. It just makes you look like them.
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Alternatively, he WOULD be Wonder Woman.

He just wouldn't be Princess Diana.

That is, if you consider it as Diana is who she is, Wonder Woman is what she can do.
 
So, since you clearly ignored my warning, we'll start with a 3 days threadban.
Senevri said:
If true, that's a shame because if a character in a story cannot express wrong things, it restricts what can be written about by quite a bit, and these are such fuzzy things.
'Tranny' should probably be considered offensive because it's used as such in most cases, similarly to how 'Bastard' in modern context isn't used to refer to children outside wedlock, but as a derogatory description of one's character.
Of course, some people aren't aware of alternate non-offensive shorthands to express themselves.
Of course, there are contexts where the word 'girl' is derogatory, so it's all blargh.
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Yes, but like you said Tranny is considered offensive to a particular group, one that the creators of sv turn out to be ardent supporters of (due to their founder leaving spacebattles because of it) and is considered "hate speech" due to it's historical usage which is against their rule set. So, an actually obvious ban. Honestly, I agree it's probably blowing it out of proportion, but there is historical precedent for it being rude.
 
Field Trip (part 1)
  • Threadmarks
    • Field Trip

    3rd January
    10:22 GMT -7

    "…just wrong."

    Sunset gestures at the whiteboard, several parts covered in Atlantean notation.

    "See, they're treating the system as neutral or even hostile to the power trying to move it, when it actually-."

    I nod. "They're not rewriting the magic systems, they're just nudging their bounds slightly, and that's far more energy-efficient."

    Her pen drops from her right hand and her mouth falls open slightly. A short distance to my right, Circe covers a chuckle with a cough.

    "You… Understood… What I was saying?"

    "The equations may have been a little over my head, but this isn't anything any street magician-"

    I glance over at John, who raises his cigarette in salute. Pretty sure those are illegal here, but if getting around no smoking laws is all he's using his abilities for…

    "-worth his stubble doesn't know. Plants naturally grow, and if you give them a bit of a nudge they'll grow faster. But that doesn't mean that you can suddenly make them grow pipes, even if the volume and material composition are the same."

    "Right!" Clearly pleased by my non-idiocy, Sunset moves to a different portion of the board. "So, my tests clearly showed that, on average, Earth Ponies were only slightly less magically strong than Unicorn Ponies or Pegasus Ponies."

    Councillor Endor frowns. "And why is that? If you are all one people, each tribe breeding freely with the others, surely one tribe's strength should be the strength of all."

    "I'm not sure. And I didn't get to test all that many ponies before Celestia made me stop, so it might just have been a problem with my sample. But… I've got an idea."

    She starts to pace.

    "Unicorn Ponies use thaumokinesis constantly throughout our lives. It's actually pretty unusual for one of us to move anything with our mouths once we're out of diapers. As a result, even Unicorn Ponies who don't work with… 'Pure' magic all that much will gradually build up their strength. It's the same with Pegasus Ponies: even if they don't do weather work, they still fly, and exercise their magic in that way."

    He shakes his head. "But if Earth Ponies work the land…"

    "I was testing ponies in Canterlot, our capital. We've got gardens and a couple of parks, but the nearest farmland is at the bottom of the mountain, around Ponyville. If Celestia hadn't stopped me I'd have liked to test Earth Pony farmers to see if the results were any different." She shrugs. "But that's beside the point. The fact is, now that I've had a chance to look at the spells floramancers on Zerox use, it's clear that even if Earth Ponies are generally weaker, they should be able to produce greater observable effects than they do."

    Circe nods at the equations. "To what degree? You seem to have an awful lot of unknown variables in there."

    "I'm not… Sure. I can input the values for Earth or Zerox and get different figures, but I don't have any basis for assuming that the magic of Equestria works in the same way."

    "Ah, yes." Councillor Endor smiles warmly. "The Dream Constant."

    "The what?" / "You've found it?"

    Sunset looks at him in puzzlement and her mentor in astonishment. Councillor Endor's face drops a little.

    "Well… No, not as such. I mean, we know it exists-."

    "I could have told you that millennia ago."

    "Ah." Sunset raises her right hand and shakes it back and forth. "'Dream Constant'?"

    "It's a bit… Ah… Theological?"

    Sunset shakes her head. "Ponies don't have religion. When your ruler controls the sun it's hard to imagine something more powerful. And even then, it's only by degrees."

    Councillor Endor blinks heavily several times, then leans forward. "I'm sorry: controls the sun?"

    "Brings it up in the morning and lowers it in the evening. Or maybe she just nudges it around a bit. Or maybe it's all some sort of projection, I don't know. She does the same thing with our moon."

    "Idjuh imdja abahbah…" Councillor Endor tries to get his thoughts in order. "One does not 'nudge' a sun. Even accelerating the planet's rotation would have… Countless side effects on.. on weather-"

    "We control that."

    "-tides, magnetic fields… On many worlds animals navigate using those."

    Sunset ponders his response. "That would explain Winter Wrap-Up. But if that were the case…" She shakes her head. "I watched Celestia raise and lower the sun hundreds of times. She always took the same amount of time. If Wilson were orbiting the sun at any speed the amount would change depending on the point in the orbital cycle. Wilson would have to be stationary… And I can't think of a heliocentric model that would naturally lead to that."

    Circe frowns mildly. "Those sound like more assumptions-."

    "I can't check anything until I get back." She face me. "Grayven, can I have a satellite network? I need to find out how my home system works."

    "If you ask Celestia politely if she'll explain it to you-" She grimaces. "-first, then yes."

    "Maybe I'll just make my own." She returns her attention to Councillor Endor. "What were you saying about dreams?"

    "Not dreams. Those are but the fractured images our minds retain from our somnolent touching of something indescribable. The root of magic, the raw nonsense that is the underlying structure of our calcified universe. It's where our ability to manipulate the universe in certain ways… Comes from?" He closes his eyes and shakes his head. "That's a dramatic oversimplification, but it is in essence-."

    "Chaos." Sunset looks like she just found half a maggot in her apple. "You're saying that magic comes from raw chaos."

    "No, no, it…" He shakes his head. "There are far better people than me for explaining this. Just-just take it that it is a world's relationship to the Dream that defines how certain deep magic elements work."

    I nod. "The presence of the minds of dreamers and thinkers tames the plasticity, causing some things to be easier than others. By the time you get… Closer to the corporeal, it's hardly chaotic at all."

    Councillor Endor frowns at me. "I rather had the impression that New Gods assigned responsibility to the Source for such things."

    I shrug. "I think that the New Gods of New Genesis do. On Apokolips, it's… Not really an article of faith in the same way. I think Father prefers it when people think it comes from him, but with actual practitioners that would simply cripple their ability to learn."

    "But if we can get back to the point?" Sunset folds her arms across her chest and waits for a moment. "If we assume that my revised calculations for the application of magic 'work' are even remotely accurate, Earth Ponies should be able to do a lot more than they can."

    "So… Some sort of giant Earth Pony conspiracy to keep food prices high?"

    "What?" Sunset frowns. "No, that's absurd. Aside from the fact that only a minority of Earth Ponies work on commercial farms, that would require them to keep it secret from non-Earth Pony husbands, wives, parents and children. And Alicorns have the magic of all three tribes."

    "Alright." I lean forward slightly. "So what do you think it is?"

    "I… Don't know. Maybe the Great Migration really did happen, but the techniques for channelling Earth Pony magic got lost along the way, and… Never relearned. Or… Maybe it just never got found out, or ponies thought it was part of their special talent and not something teachable." She lowers her arms. "But that's why I should become an Alicorn. If Celestia hasn't done anything about this waste for a thousand years, someone who understands magic needs to. And that someone is going to be me."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    Field Trip

    3rd January 2012
    10:22 GMT -7
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    Oooh, first Renegade episode on QQ. <Phweeeeoooot>

    That fact is, now that I've hard a chance to look at...
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    The fact is, now that I've had a chance to look at...

    ...tames the plasticity, causing some things is be easier than others.
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    ...tames the plasticity, causing some things to be easier than others.


    This is a promising start. Can't wait to see where this plot goes...
     
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    Ah, Well, This, Is, A Thing, wish it was a bit more integrated, or the snippets were in a different section than threadmarks, like extra or sidestory.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "What?" Sunset frowns. "No, that's absurd. Aside from the fact that only a minority of Earth Ponies work on commercial farms, that would require them to keep it secret from non-Earth Pony husbands, wives, parents and children. And Alicorns have the magic of all three tribes."
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    She must have forgotten the giant crops+unreasonable growing times, boulder punching and a general super strength.
    And Pinky sense perhaps?
     
    Old Knife said:
    She must have forgotten the giant crops+unreasonable growing times, boulder punching and a general super strength.
    And Pinky sense perhaps?
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    But those are Country Folks. She was a City-Slicker who didn't associate with honest, down-home ponies.
    Indeed, she says right here she'd have liked to see actual farming ponies, who use their full powers...
     
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    lurkymclurkerton said:
    ...but it isn't sidestory. It's storyline of one two main versions of the SI.
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    I mean... For the Grayven stuff I'd agree. But for the occasional moment where we get reminded Sunset exists in the story? I'm not sure that's ever been central to the plot in any way. This scene is a perfect example. They're having a roundtable discussion about how magic and biology works for a race that technically speaking no one there belongs to, and the astronomical structure of a planet most of them have barely heard of and none of them can get to. All for the sake of a character that contributes nothing but an excuse for conversations like this one.

    Conservation of detail? What's that, some kind of food?
     
    Old Knife said:
    She must have forgotten the giant crops
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    I odn't remember this.
    unreasonable growing times,
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    The only instance of this I remember is Zap Apples, and I'm more inclined to put that down to the peculiarities of the species.
    boulder punching
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    In the main timeline, we only see Maud do this.
    and a general super strength.
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    Big Mac struggled to lift a large cake.
    And Pinky sense perhaps?
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    Pinkie probably wasn't born when she left Equestria.
     
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