Maxx Crowley
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Meh, face doesn't do it for me. Also, you call that bulging?
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- Tags
- self insert young justice
Chaoswind
Lord of nonsense
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You people have terrible memories.
Its probably how the Batman of the future universe IS the Justice lords verse, also this superman was brainwashed by Darkseid made a general "son" and then ordered to gleefully commit genocide on dozens of worlds before being sent to earth, where he recovered his original memories and then returned to murder Darkseid.
So Grayven knows this superman turns into a bad guy if left alone. He also knows this superman has killed a gigaton of people, then killed Darkseid in revenge and finally returned to earth where he eventually became earths Darkseid...
Nope, I don't see any problems. Kal is probably carrying a nasty co pilot in his soul, so the best that can be done with him is to keep him as a powerless farm owner.
Lord Ernest
At the End...
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Point of clarification, even if they were bulging, those aren't "sacks of chest fat" (beautiful things that most of those are), instead what that guy has is more muscle than fat so no need to compare.
On Superman, though, I honestly expect Kal-El to be redeemable as well, the guy's just stubborn, Superman probably has some strong guilt from his time with Darkseid and who knows if he properly managed to process that (DC doesn't have therapists for Superheroes), and then one of the sweetest and most good guys ever dies because Lex is being a dick for the Zth time; I would have snapped as well. And then when he felt they were properly fixing the planet the stupid idea to go to another Earth comes about and that fucks up all the work. Grayven is definitely biased against him, nonetheless, so he didn't give Kal his version of tough love like he gave Diana, but I'm sure a few more visits from Kara (maybe a satellite call to Kansas?) and he will reflect properly on what happened.
In any case, I don't like the character either way (never have, couldn't even manage to see the TAS), so he can stay in his golden bus or hang himself with his cape, far as I'm concerned.
On Superman, though, I honestly expect Kal-El to be redeemable as well, the guy's just stubborn, Superman probably has some strong guilt from his time with Darkseid and who knows if he properly managed to process that (DC doesn't have therapists for Superheroes), and then one of the sweetest and most good guys ever dies because Lex is being a dick for the Zth time; I would have snapped as well. And then when he felt they were properly fixing the planet the stupid idea to go to another Earth comes about and that fucks up all the work. Grayven is definitely biased against him, nonetheless, so he didn't give Kal his version of tough love like he gave Diana, but I'm sure a few more visits from Kara (maybe a satellite call to Kansas?) and he will reflect properly on what happened.
In any case, I don't like the character either way (never have, couldn't even manage to see the TAS), so he can stay in his golden bus or hang himself with his cape, far as I'm concerned.
egooo
Getting sticky.
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Having finally remembered my password, is like to say...
1) To me, that "Orange Night"-event seems more and more likely to happen as a direct consequence of Paul handing off his booklets to everyone.
Spiders certainly can make "ideal" bearers artificially, albeit given much experimenting.
The rest of the groups will certainly try something as well.
2) Although I can remember Zoat answering me in SV-thread about a year ago that we won't ever see Paul actually getting to those universes he saw during Jumpbug-april fools...
I can't help but hope for them still
And with how active he was picking up lantern-candidates lately...
3) And speaking of those chapters, could someone link me to them, please?
I've lost mine, and is like to re-read them. :3
1) To me, that "Orange Night"-event seems more and more likely to happen as a direct consequence of Paul handing off his booklets to everyone.
Spiders certainly can make "ideal" bearers artificially, albeit given much experimenting.
The rest of the groups will certainly try something as well.
2) Although I can remember Zoat answering me in SV-thread about a year ago that we won't ever see Paul actually getting to those universes he saw during Jumpbug-april fools...
I can't help but hope for them still
And with how active he was picking up lantern-candidates lately...
3) And speaking of those chapters, could someone link me to them, please?
I've lost mine, and is like to re-read them. :3
Senevri
Not too sore, are you?
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Here you go.
Previously, people have guessed that a cape hinders flight. Turns out, even experts guess wrong.
Of course, we're lacking data on lower, as well as supersonic speeds.
Senevri
Not too sore, are you?
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Well, he just spilled the beans to Kara soo... Farm soil cleanup will probably happen at some point.
Maybe.
OTOH, wasn't it mentioned that those organelles aren't there just for fun, with Kara-16? Soooo... Grayven is literally killing Lord!Superman? Just a question of time scale?
Buggy123
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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I mean, Grayven probably doesn't care that much if he was willing to secretly depower the guy. The fact that he only secretly depowered him was probably just so that he didn't hurt his relations with the other Justice Lords, and because there's really no point in purposefully killing him if merely removing his powers removes him as a threat to Earth-50.
hkim
Know what you're doing yet?
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You did. Paul didn't. And it's a lot easier to work the light of avarice on someone you desire,I'd imagine.
Conqueror's Moon (supplementary, SI option)
Mr Zoat
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11th February 2012
04:34 GMT
And… Bit more decorative-.
No, no. Any more fretwork and it's just going to get covered in whatever the local moss-analogue is. Simplify it… Yeah. Hades always struck me as the practical sort of god.
**Very Greek.**
I glance back as Blake floats down behind me. I create a construct psi-shield.
"I'm a Hellenist."
He looks at me for a moment, and then bows his head. "Alright, out loud it is then."
"I'd appreciate it. I'm not feeling especially trusting right now."
"Why Hades?" I stare at him, and he gives his head a small shake. "It's on the wrong planet if that's why you built it."
"Neither the karnans nor the gordanians have a God of Death. A lot of people died without funerary rites. Not only can that be deeply unpleasant for the departed, the arcane side effects of spirits remaining in the material world can be dangerous for the people who remain." Oh, right, he left before-. "The existence of the soul-."
Blake nods. "I knew Lance Gallant. I know the sort of power the dead can possess."
"Lord Hades likes to be kept busy. Hopefully, we can come up with a way to lure the unquiet shades of Karna here, and into his care."
"You've met him in person?"
I nod. "Several times."
He frowns faintly. "Hm. I'm curious. What made you convert?"
"I used to be an atheist. Then I received unambiguous evidence that souls, gods, and all that sort of thing exist. At that point, picking an afterlife services provider seemed like a sensible plan. Are you religious at all?"
"No, though I.. do respect your pragmatism. I originally came to Vega because I heard of X'Hal and wondered if she might be like me. Someone who -by pure happenstance- became a more advanced specimen of the species that bore them."
"Even the psions don't know what the psions did to her."
"It was why I came here. It wasn't why I stayed."
"Alright, fine, polite small talk done. I can't believe that you didn't consider the idea that I'd be willing to provide additional support. And you know how I'd think about a request in a place like this better than our non-human friends. So what the heck were you thinking by not calling me in?"
He nods. "I certainly considered it. I don't know precisely how skilled most members of your Corps are, but assuming that they had a slightly more intense training than the princesses, my estimate was that a force of fifty Lanterns would have reduced the deaths on our side by perhaps ten thousand. And you can add to that another thousand or so test subjects from the psion laboratories. The cost to you would have been between two and four Lanterns, though I agree that your commander would have most likely considered it worthwhile to give the rest field experience."
"And it would have cost Vega…" Heh. "The 'New Vega Alliance' its founding myth. Outsiders coming in to fix the problem."
"And building trust. The next few months will involve building the relationships between the parties involved. That sign of unity and power will bring Vega's minor powers into alignment."
"Did you run calculations on the lives saved in the long term?"
He shrugs. "That sort of calculation just isn't possible. There are far too many unknown variables. But knowing what I do about history -human and alien- I strongly suspect that it still works out for the best. Unless you move the Orange Central Power Battery here, or leave a major garrison fleet to do what the Alliance is doing right now."
"And what is the Alliance doing right now?"
"Ending the Branx Corporate War by eliminating the Citadel-aligned consortia. Then all that's left is a show of force in front of anyone who might be thinking of carrying on in the old way."
"And by eliminating..?"
He shakes his head. "They're not psions. I doubt that we'll have to kill all that many. But the consortia will be broken up and their remaining assets appropriated by their government."
"I didn't think that the Branx had much of a central government."
"And that's one of the things we'll be changing. Ridiculous concept."
"And the Spiders?"
"What about them?"
"I killed the citadelians and I won't mourn the psions. I like the Queen."
He shrugs, shaking his head. "She's keeping to the terms of the agreement you thrashed out last year. And no one wants to incite an attack by the rest of the Spider Guild. No, I imagine that she'll do her utmost to make herself invaluable in the coming years."
"And the gordanians?"
"A fight here might have been useful, but I think we can make your peace work in the long term."
"Heh. Hm-uh." He raises his eyebrows. "It's just a bit strange for me, being on this side of the conversation. I'm assuming that you'll be sticking around to oversee things?"
He nods. "I think so. Sorting out a mess like Vega, that's a job that might actually keep me occupied. And I meant what I said about Earth. There isn't anything… Anyone there I miss."
"Anything? I think I'm going to need to keep track of Koriand'r and Komand'r a bit better. If there's something you want me to pick up for you..?"
"Food, mostly. Bread made with actual wheat, coffee from actual coffee beans. Bacon from a pig."
I wave my right hand. "Write me a list. I'll bring a shipping container."
"That's… Surprisingly generous. You're not at all angry?"
"No, I am. I don't see a point in throwing a strop over this. Ferrying a few home comforts is a small price to pay for keeping in touch." I bow my head slightly. "But really? You couldn't have explained this ahead of time and let me use a small squad of Lanterns to hit the Wombworld prisons? It's not like people around here don't know me."
"I considered thousands of variations of the plan, a sizable proportion of which involved you to a greater or lesser extent. Ultimately, using foreign Lanterns would have generated additional political uncertainty which would have claimed more lives than your involvement would have saved."
Everything I know about Adam Blake, learned from records on Earth and Tamaran, tells me that he's being honest. On Earth, he was very much on the idealistic end of the superhero spectrum. In Vega he learned ruthlessness, but not… It seems unlikely that he'd kill a thousand innocent people to carry out a personal revenge.
But I'm still angry.
I'm still angry.
04:34 GMT
And… Bit more decorative-.
No, no. Any more fretwork and it's just going to get covered in whatever the local moss-analogue is. Simplify it… Yeah. Hades always struck me as the practical sort of god.
**Very Greek.**
I glance back as Blake floats down behind me. I create a construct psi-shield.
"I'm a Hellenist."
He looks at me for a moment, and then bows his head. "Alright, out loud it is then."
"I'd appreciate it. I'm not feeling especially trusting right now."
"Why Hades?" I stare at him, and he gives his head a small shake. "It's on the wrong planet if that's why you built it."
"Neither the karnans nor the gordanians have a God of Death. A lot of people died without funerary rites. Not only can that be deeply unpleasant for the departed, the arcane side effects of spirits remaining in the material world can be dangerous for the people who remain." Oh, right, he left before-. "The existence of the soul-."
Blake nods. "I knew Lance Gallant. I know the sort of power the dead can possess."
"Lord Hades likes to be kept busy. Hopefully, we can come up with a way to lure the unquiet shades of Karna here, and into his care."
"You've met him in person?"
I nod. "Several times."
He frowns faintly. "Hm. I'm curious. What made you convert?"
"I used to be an atheist. Then I received unambiguous evidence that souls, gods, and all that sort of thing exist. At that point, picking an afterlife services provider seemed like a sensible plan. Are you religious at all?"
"No, though I.. do respect your pragmatism. I originally came to Vega because I heard of X'Hal and wondered if she might be like me. Someone who -by pure happenstance- became a more advanced specimen of the species that bore them."
"Even the psions don't know what the psions did to her."
"It was why I came here. It wasn't why I stayed."
"Alright, fine, polite small talk done. I can't believe that you didn't consider the idea that I'd be willing to provide additional support. And you know how I'd think about a request in a place like this better than our non-human friends. So what the heck were you thinking by not calling me in?"
He nods. "I certainly considered it. I don't know precisely how skilled most members of your Corps are, but assuming that they had a slightly more intense training than the princesses, my estimate was that a force of fifty Lanterns would have reduced the deaths on our side by perhaps ten thousand. And you can add to that another thousand or so test subjects from the psion laboratories. The cost to you would have been between two and four Lanterns, though I agree that your commander would have most likely considered it worthwhile to give the rest field experience."
"And it would have cost Vega…" Heh. "The 'New Vega Alliance' its founding myth. Outsiders coming in to fix the problem."
"And building trust. The next few months will involve building the relationships between the parties involved. That sign of unity and power will bring Vega's minor powers into alignment."
"Did you run calculations on the lives saved in the long term?"
He shrugs. "That sort of calculation just isn't possible. There are far too many unknown variables. But knowing what I do about history -human and alien- I strongly suspect that it still works out for the best. Unless you move the Orange Central Power Battery here, or leave a major garrison fleet to do what the Alliance is doing right now."
"And what is the Alliance doing right now?"
"Ending the Branx Corporate War by eliminating the Citadel-aligned consortia. Then all that's left is a show of force in front of anyone who might be thinking of carrying on in the old way."
"And by eliminating..?"
He shakes his head. "They're not psions. I doubt that we'll have to kill all that many. But the consortia will be broken up and their remaining assets appropriated by their government."
"I didn't think that the Branx had much of a central government."
"And that's one of the things we'll be changing. Ridiculous concept."
"And the Spiders?"
"What about them?"
"I killed the citadelians and I won't mourn the psions. I like the Queen."
He shrugs, shaking his head. "She's keeping to the terms of the agreement you thrashed out last year. And no one wants to incite an attack by the rest of the Spider Guild. No, I imagine that she'll do her utmost to make herself invaluable in the coming years."
"And the gordanians?"
"A fight here might have been useful, but I think we can make your peace work in the long term."
"Heh. Hm-uh." He raises his eyebrows. "It's just a bit strange for me, being on this side of the conversation. I'm assuming that you'll be sticking around to oversee things?"
He nods. "I think so. Sorting out a mess like Vega, that's a job that might actually keep me occupied. And I meant what I said about Earth. There isn't anything… Anyone there I miss."
"Anything? I think I'm going to need to keep track of Koriand'r and Komand'r a bit better. If there's something you want me to pick up for you..?"
"Food, mostly. Bread made with actual wheat, coffee from actual coffee beans. Bacon from a pig."
I wave my right hand. "Write me a list. I'll bring a shipping container."
"That's… Surprisingly generous. You're not at all angry?"
"No, I am. I don't see a point in throwing a strop over this. Ferrying a few home comforts is a small price to pay for keeping in touch." I bow my head slightly. "But really? You couldn't have explained this ahead of time and let me use a small squad of Lanterns to hit the Wombworld prisons? It's not like people around here don't know me."
"I considered thousands of variations of the plan, a sizable proportion of which involved you to a greater or lesser extent. Ultimately, using foreign Lanterns would have generated additional political uncertainty which would have claimed more lives than your involvement would have saved."
Everything I know about Adam Blake, learned from records on Earth and Tamaran, tells me that he's being honest. On Earth, he was very much on the idealistic end of the superhero spectrum. In Vega he learned ruthlessness, but not… It seems unlikely that he'd kill a thousand innocent people to carry out a personal revenge.
But I'm still angry.
I'm still angry.
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Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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Well, you should be, because his argument is both arrogant and ridiculous.
thebishop8
Umm, ackchyually...
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Last edited:
Ganurath
Apologizes For Nothing
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Spider Queen: "Ah, good. I'd been concerned at the time that the lack of release from your forelimbs indicated dissatisfaction, but even after learning that your kind don't keep their reproductive organs there things had been awkward."
Buggy123
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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I don't think it is. It's actually a rather nice change of pace to find someone with a complicated moral choice that has short and long term consequences, and actually said "Fuck it, I'm not listening to my gut here. Anyone have a pencil and some paper?".
As I see it, this is effectively how morality works, it's just that humans don't usually do it consciously. Moral actions can be described mathematically just as much as physics. But, just like a basketball player doesn't do trigonometry every time they take a shot, superheros usually don't actually calculate the ethics of their actions. And they really ought to, since the human subconscious isn't very good with large numbers.
The fact that Blake understands all of this, and chose to figure it out, gives him some major points in my book. The only issue I see is that he might be influenced by his desire for revenge, but if he did it right he can account for that as well.
Vaermina
Well worn.
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Paul "like" her long time.
Chojin Patriarch
Veteran Lurker
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Ah, a glimpse of the fallout from Jiggety-Jig...
Oh, yes. He's certainly more conscientious about his work than his brothers...
Yeah, I don't think he wants you in his head right now.
Heh. More souls for Hades.
Man, the Golden Age was weird...
Little hard to be sceptical in the face of proof.
Well, that she did. To the point of becoming a separate species entirely.
Ah, the meat of the matter.
That sentence feels a little unfinished. Perhaps 'training regimen' because the 'a' feels lost.
Well, he's not wrong there, Vril Dox would consider that.
Not happening.
"Okay, hold it right there. Maybe you should hear about something similar on Earth..."
Admittedly, I doubt Vega will become the Middle East of the galaxy, situationally speaking, just based on the character of the races involved... (And let it end there, as not to run afoul Rule 8)
Ugh, I hope he did check Earth history while he poked around in OL's head...
"But not the way people are saying. Seriously."
It's funny, isn't it? Not nearly so fun.
Heh. Good to see he's not completely gone native.
"Good god, it's strange to see from the outside..."
And that proves you're still Human, deep down.
Well, satisfying in a way. But ultimately, I doubt OL feels all that happy about it.
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Slayer Anderson
Orthodox Heretic
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The misconception that Blake is making, I feel, is that Paul isn't considered an outsider by the wider cross-section of Vega residents.
Specifically, they identify him as successor to The Beast. In the immediate past a number of Orange 'Lantern' Constructs had been sent out searching for Paul and generally making themselves known and wrecking havoc among local space. A group of orange light users under the command of the the individual who's become the New Beast would more likely be seen as a domestic faction to Vega, not a foreign one.
Blake's making a number of faulty assumptions from my point of view and Paul has every right to be angry.
Specifically, they identify him as successor to The Beast. In the immediate past a number of Orange 'Lantern' Constructs had been sent out searching for Paul and generally making themselves known and wrecking havoc among local space. A group of orange light users under the command of the the individual who's become the New Beast would more likely be seen as a domestic faction to Vega, not a foreign one.
Blake's making a number of faulty assumptions from my point of view and Paul has every right to be angry.
Prince Charon
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True. There's also the fact that Blake is not a precog (if I'm wrong about that, what happened to him suggests that any precog he does have must have serious limitations), and he cannot have accounted for all factors. For one thing, people will wonder why more Orange Lanterns were not involved, once they've had time to think about it, and that's just one consequence I'm thinking of right now.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Buggy123
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Hmm, you make a good point. I hadn't thought about Blake having incomplete information here. And he couldn't necessarily check all that easily, because he had to avoid tipping off OL.
Tricky. I still like the fact that he tried to work this out, but it's hard to tell whether or not he made the right decision. It could go either way here, and I don't think we have enough information to clear it up.
Hmm, I dunno. I don't think that's likely. It's not very often that people look at someone doing a generally good and appreciated action (ending the Psion Menace, rescuing slaves/test subjects, etc) and think about how they could've done it better. Not unless they do it really badly in the first place, and Blake still succeeded in taking out the Psions and rescuing some people, without overwhelming casualties.
Handlewithcare
Versed in the lewd.
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NightmareWarden
Versed in the lewd.
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Hmm. How would Blake's plan have turned out if he barred all Orange Lanterns from participating, by keeping the princesses occupied elsewhere? His ideal stance for his new countrymen to face upcoming threats? He couldn't have known that Koriandr would face the situation on her own.
That whole coincidence makes me wonder if there's some sort of Comic-Book!Logic at play here.
Also Blake went over so many simulations for that assault and made his peace with Paul's resentment... And he didn't say anything to rebuild bridges? To reconcile with the superhero that saved his life?!
Adam Blake isn't the next Nabu, but I'm betting Paul will end up comparing them while putting this anger towards positive ends.
That whole coincidence makes me wonder if there's some sort of Comic-Book!Logic at play here.
Also Blake went over so many simulations for that assault and made his peace with Paul's resentment... And he didn't say anything to rebuild bridges? To reconcile with the superhero that saved his life?!
Adam Blake isn't the next Nabu, but I'm betting Paul will end up comparing them while putting this anger towards positive ends.
AtomicGeneral25
Insert Creativity Here
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While it is true that Paul would not be considered an unknown factor to the citizens of Vega (for the reasons you mentioned), that doesn't change the fact that he is still an outsider. He's not from Vega, but more importantly, he didn't stick around in Vega, and as far as Blake could tell at the time when he made the decision, Paul wasn't planning on being a permanent fixture of the post-Citadel Vega power structure. As such, having him and the OLC swoop in and save the day would have undermined the foundational event of the New Vega Alliance.
As far as I can tell, that's what Blake was more concerned about rather than saving the soldiers of Psion captives lives. While it might seem abstract, that shared suffering and overcoming that challenge, while also establishing themselves as a legitimate power, are going to be absolutely critical for the alliance going forward, especially if they want to maintain peace over Vega. I'm not sure if this decision was entirely correct, especially since Paul's willingness to return to Vega and take some responsibility for it's citizens shows that he might have been open to a more permanent OLC presence in the Vega power structure, but Dox would be less than pleased at that. Overall, while not necessarily a perfect choice, I do think that Blake made the best decision that he could with the information that he had at the time.
Huttj509
Getting sticky.
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I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't necessarily think Blake made the *right* choice (yadda yadda hindsight and speculation 20/20, etc), but it was a conscious, considered decision.
Lord Ernest
At the End...
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I will need to analyze this later on, but point of clarification, Kori saved a few, just a few, of the innocents in the attack on Wombworld, but apparently that was it; I don't recall any other major saving of the prisoners and test subjects so that's a con firmly placed in the plan Blake executed.
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
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Oh god. I know where we are. I know what's coming now. The Spider Queen is being kept in check by simple pragmatism. She still wants to eat everybody, it just isn't practical to do so, so she's not. She made deals to protect herself and her progeny, and is obeying them because she doesn't have the power to deal with the fallout.
As soon as the Spider Queen finishes studying the Orange Lantern Manual that Paul gave her, and makes the first Orange Spider babies who can call/create their own rings... there's no limit to how many she can make, and the speed she can make them at is rather absurd.
The Orangest Night Begins.
As soon as the Spider Queen finishes studying the Orange Lantern Manual that Paul gave her, and makes the first Orange Spider babies who can call/create their own rings... there's no limit to how many she can make, and the speed she can make them at is rather absurd.
The Orangest Night Begins.
Mastigos2
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The interesting bit here is that I'm pretty sure he's more trying to convince himself that he is or should be angry, than ACTUALLY angry. Especially given the lack of red. Then again, maybe Red Rage doesn't actually align much with sullen anger
Stsword
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He is.
At least in the comics, but if memory serves Zoat has already edited his powers, since I remember getting the impression that his superhuman physicality from the comics here is just a manifestation of his psychokinesis.
doug89
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Whether or not he is correct that keeping Paul or the Orange Lantern corp out of the fight is better in the long term, he still kept this a secret. Still deceived him. Basically lied to him.
Paul was right there. All he had to do was approach him, tell him is plans, and turn him down if Paul asked to help, stating X/Y/Z reasons. Instead he's damaged the relationships with major polities in the sector and Paul.
Paul was right there. All he had to do was approach him, tell him is plans, and turn him down if Paul asked to help, stating X/Y/Z reasons. Instead he's damaged the relationships with major polities in the sector and Paul.