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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Xelloss said:
What happens if a Norse kills everyone in battle while being mortally wounded, then die after the fight is over. Does it still count ?
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Been said, but yes.

theaceoffire said:
Forget teaching Superman how to fight, try teaching him how to God damn duck or Dodge.
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As someone who has a load of Superman comics, he avoids a lot more attacks then pop culture or the cartoons would suggest to you. Just like Rouge or Wolverine back in the old 90's cartoon. Superman gets hit in the shows more often than anyone because he's the one character who can take all the beating, and the audience wont question it when he gets up unharmed.

theaceoffire said:
"Oh, an unknown weapon from bad guys whom dedicated their lives to countering me, better fly at them in a straight line!" and "Ha! Hit my chest because I am invincible!" both drove me nuts.
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So, I have a, issue where there is a little side story where some teenage punk gets Strength and Durability powers. So of course, he knocks over a bank. Hurts a load of guards and police trying to get out.

Superman shows up and, after talking him down fails, gets a sucker punch followed by a combination beat down and a car smashed on him.

But wait? How could Clark NOT dodge that punch as the kid has already been shown to lack speed powers?

Well, Superman gets up without a scratch, kinda rubbing his jaw. The kid gloats, throws another punch, only for Clark to catch it. A little crackling crunch and Clark says something like "...About a 4." The kid throws another punch that Clark braces for, and almost breaks his other hand. Then Clark levels him.

Clark literally let him hit him the first time just to see where he fell in the Strength range. Then he knew, and controlled his own strength to overpower, but not just kill, the kid.

Furthermore, when Superman just stands there and lets someone unload on him, particularly when he was just getting established, he did it to literally say "Look, you can't hurt me. Please just quit now."

And then for the public that stood there and saw a guy put his hands on his hips while someone unloaded a M-60 into his chest, before walking through a barrage of anti-tank rifle fire. His actions were to say "Look, they can't hurt me. Everything is going to be alright. Have hope, everything be fine."

Which is why one of his newest expies literally has the catchphrase "I am here." With the understanding being "Everything will be fine."

He's not an idiot. He's proving a point. Or he is putting himself in between someone squishier.

I have another book where Clark bobs and weaves under Darkside's punches like Mike Tyson (Look it up) before ripping into his body with perfect hooks, and sending him flying with a (really well drawn) uppercut.



TheEyes said:
Does he believe he is in charge of the League then? Because the League is in charge of the Team and its membership, last I was aware of. Did OL launch a coup?

Even if he were in charge, this was a very presumptuous decision to force on both the Team and the League. Creating buy in by keeping lines of communication open and discussing decisions before making them is a basic part of teamwork; you'd think that after the most recent episode in Vega that Paul wouldn't forget that so quickly.
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OL does what OL wants to do. He has since page one.

For a while, he worked within confines, but lets face it yeah? OL is a rules lawyer. Yes, but no, because this, and then that.

See all the legal shields he made sure where in place before hitting Nabu.

OL does what OL wants. One way, or another. Probably has something to do with all that Orange balance, Ophidian's heart soul stuff.

It is interesting that he'll extend a hand to the Nazi, because she "never had a choice" while Nabu got a mild olive branch and then brain-deaded. I think it's probably safe to say that Nabu did perform more of a net good then Overgirl ever has, but OL had already made up his mind.

I guess literal goose stepping Nazi is above what he calls a body snatching Lich.

I suppose it comes down to choice. She was born a Nazi, he chose to become a body wearing Helmut.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
I suppose it comes down to choice. She was born a Nazi, he chose to become a body wearing Helmut.
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Well that and she's assaulted fewer innocent people than Nabu did in her time on Earth-16. Nabu essentially kidnapped/enslaved Zatanna and Mr. Zatara, Overgirl hasn't hit a single person in anger.
 
Jungle Gym (part 3)
  • Threadmarks
    • 17th March
    18:11 GMT -6

    Harleen regards me dispassionately for a moment, then turns back to the barkeep.

    "Next one's a double."

    "So-."

    "Bh!"

    Keeping her attention on the barkeep as he pours her drink, she raises her left hand towards me.

    Alright then.

    I wait patiently as the barkeep finishes pouring and puts the glass down in front of Harleen. She picks it up with her right hand and raises it to her lips. And drinks.

    "Aren't y-?"

    "Bh!"

    And down the whiskey goes. She then puts the glass back down on the bar, but… Her hand hasn't gone down yet. So I keep waiting.

    Harleen closes her eyes, breathes in and then holds it. One, two, three and out slowly.

    Then she lowers her left hand and turns towards me.

    "Okay."

    "Okay."

    "So on Earth 10, the Nahzis rule the woruld."

    "Various far right groups rule the world, with the German National Socialists being paramount amongst them. Directly ruling a world using a relatively small population base is actually quite difficult."

    Not that has stopped all sorts of people from trying. Hah, thought the person from Britain.

    "So everyone's a Nahzi, they're just ain't all Joiman."

    "There's a range of political opinion, but ethnocentrism is a fairly common thread."

    "Okay. Okay. So… Do I need t'go in hidin'?"

    "I.. wouldn't think so?"

    "You do know I'm Jewish, don't yah?"

    I frown. "Should you be drinking on a Friday evening?"

    "Ah, yeyah? Why-?" She shakes her head. "I ain't practisin', but I don' think Nazis care 'bowd that."

    "You know those ridiculously racist Second World War era caricatures of Jews? With the hook nose and-." She nods. "That's what she thinks Jews literally look like. So you wouldn't need to hide even if she wasn't being overseen by a Justice League member or affiliate twenty-four seven."

    "Rilly? Did the Nazis kill awll the smawt people too?"

    "No, but they needed to maintain faith in their ideals, so they didn't ease up on the propaganda after their extermination campaign ended. 'This is what our enemies looked like, accept it, don't question it'. Which is why I came to-."

    "To me, because you think I know how to convince her nat to be a Nahzi."

    "She's not doing badly. Considering. She's managed civil conversations with homosexuals and black people. She's upset but not irrational about the realisation that her mother-figure is probably homosexual as well, and doesn't plan on informing her country's authorities. But she's-."

    "She's makin' exceptions and feelin' weird abowd it, not reassessin' her fundamental worldview."

    I nod.

    "Which is obviously a problem, because she might be able to get away with the-. N-word, she-."

    "Which n-word'?"

    "The.. five letter one?" She nods. "Because she's foreign and it hasn't acquired the derogatory association in some countries that it has in America, but she also calls some people 'sub-human'."

    "Yeyeah."

    "So any advice you've got on how to handle her would be much appreciated."

    "It ain't rilly my field. She ain't crazy. She ain't even a criminal." A tiny frown and a tiny shudder. "She thinks she ain't a criminal. I know you know bowd how maladjusted mosta the people in Belle Reve are."

    "Yes."

    "An' she ain't."

    "I know." I look away for a moment. "'Individuals aren't naturally paid-up members of the human race, except biologically. They need to be bounced around by the Brownian motion of society, which is a mechanism by which human beings constantly remind one another that they are... Well... Human beings.'"

    "That a quote?"

    "Terry Pratchett. As far as I can tell he was never born here."

    "Clevah." She picks up her glass and taps the edge of the base against the surface of the bar a couple of times. "She's used tah fittin' in with awal the other Nahzis. If she ain't deliberately tryin' to keep to herself, she'll pro'bly come around gradually without rilly meanin' to."

    I nod slowly. "Because she doesn't see herself as part of a criminal minority, so she hasn't developed the psychic defences they need to maintain their egos when they resist the herd."

    "'Herd', huh?"

    "Animals form herds for sound evolutionary reasons. They learn how to behave from all of the other animals around them. I didn't mean it as an insult. And in this case it should be helpful."

    "Unless she internalises bein' an outsidah."

    "So I've got to persuade a group of superheroes to be nice to a self-identifying National Socialist. I mean I… Think they understand what I'm trying to do, but if she acts out in front of a camera it's going to massively undermine Justice League credibility."

    "And you ain't got no one you can share Overgirl-babysittin' duty with."

    "No, Kid Flash has a sort of horrified fascination with her. In the short term… On the practical side, I'm more worried about her acting on differences in rules of engagement. Policing works more or less the same on her Earth, but 'threats to the state' are met by lethal force by default."

    "And if a threat comes from someone she thinks is 'subhuman', she ain't gunna hold back none."

    "Not… Reliably."

    "Okay, well, there's a few things you could do…"
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Darko said:
    Is this episode going to be about Overgirl further adapting to this new earth?
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    Not primarily, but any episode with her in it will at least touch on that subject.
    Massgamer said:
    Would it be cool of OL to make copies of work and send them out freely under his name? Can he use ring to perfectly recall books and put them to paper?
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    Only if he memorised them before getting his ring, which he didn't.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Harleen regards me dispassionately for a moment, then turns back to the barkeep.

    "Next one's a double."
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    As Razorfloss said, Harley's gonna need to be a lot drunker to deal with OL's shit this night.

    "So-."

    "Bh!"

    Keeping her attention on the barkeep as he pours her drink, she raises her left hand towards me.
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    Let the lady brace herself for your questions, OL, she'll need it.

    Alright then.

    I wait patiently as the barkeep finishes pouring and puts the glass down in front of Harleen. She picks it up with her right hand and raises it to her lips. And drinks.
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    Wow, she is desperately in need of some numbing, isn't she?

    "Aren't y-?"

    "Bh!"

    And down the whiskey goes. She then puts the glass back down on the bar, but… Her hand hasn't gone down yet. So I keep waiting.
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    How polite, OL. Give her a moment.

    Harleen closes her eyes, breathes in and then holds it. One, two, three and out slowly.

    Then she lowers her left hand and turns towards me.
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    Now she's ready for this shit.

    "Okay."

    "Okay."

    "So on Earth 10, the Nahzis rule the woruld."
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    And as usual, she's mangling the English language. I know the phonetic accent is your style, but ouch...

    "Various far right groups rule the world, with the German National Socialists being paramount amongst them. Directly ruling a world using a relatively small population base is actually quite difficult."

    Not that has stopped all sorts of people from trying. Hah, thought the person from Britain.
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    Self-deprecating humour. How British of you, you non-tea-drinker.

    "So everyone's a Nahzi, they're just ain't all Joiman."

    "There's a range of political opinion, but ethnocentrism is a fairly common thread."
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    A nice way of putting it...

    "Okay. Okay. So… Do I need t'go in hidin'?"

    "I.. wouldn't think so?"

    "You do know I'm Jewish, don't yah?"
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    Gee, the Jersey Yiddish sure didn't give it away at all.:V

    I frown. "Should you be drinking on a Friday evening?"

    "Ah, yeyah? Why-?" She shakes her head. "I ain't practisin', but I don' think Nazis care 'bowd that."
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    I don't think Overgirl's got any followers locally. Not ones she'd tolerate, anyway. I can just imagine her cleaning up the global neo-nazi populations. Hopefully non-lethally.

    "You know those ridiculously racist Second World War era caricatures of Jews? With the hook nose and-." She nods. "That's what she thinks Jews literally look like. So you wouldn't need to hide even if she wasn't being overseen by a Justice League member or affiliate twenty-four seven."

    "Rilly? Did the Nazis kill awll the smawt people too?"
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    Well, they did tend to be anti-intellectual...

    "No, but they needed to maintain faith in their ideals, so they didn't ease up on the propaganda after their extermination campaign ended. 'This is what our enemies looked like, accept it, don't question it'. Which is why I came to-."

    "To me, because you think I know how to convince her nat to be a Nahzi."
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    Not in person, obviously.

    "She's not doing badly. Considering. She's managed civil conversations with homosexuals and black people. She's upset but not irrational about the realisation that her mother-figure is probably homosexual as well, and doesn't plan on informing her country's authorities. But she's-."

    "She's makin' exceptions and feelin' weird abowd it, not reassessin' her fundamental worldview."
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    Which is very human of her. Hypocrisy is in our nature, after all...

    I nod.

    "Which is obviously a problem, because she might be able to get away with the-. N-word, she-."
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    Indeed. Not even LA gangbangers would like her saying it.

    "Which n-word'?"

    "The.. five letter one?" She nods. "Because she's foreign and it hasn't acquired the derogatory association in some countries that it has in America, but she also calls some people 'sub-human'."
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    Admittedly, for her it's just a statement of something's nature, like calling the sky blue or pointing out a dog... It's just the baggage that word and those like it come with given her beliefs that bothers everyone else...

    "Yeyeah."

    "So any advice you've got on how to handle her would be much appreciated."

    "It ain't rilly my field. She ain't crazy. She ain't even a criminal." A tiny frown and a tiny shudder. "She thinks she ain't a criminal. I know you know bowd how maladjusted mosta the people in Belle Reve are."
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    For some of them, that's an understatement...

    "Yes."

    "An' she ain't."
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    Well, I'm sure she's well-adjusted for her home universe. It's here where she's abnormal.

    "I know." I look away for a moment. "'Individuals aren't naturally paid-up members of the human race, except biologically. They need to be bounced around by the Brownian motion of society, which is a mechanism by which human beings constantly remind one another that they are... Well... Human beings.'"

    "That a quote?"

    "Terry Pratchett. As far as I can tell he was never born here."
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    And the YJ Universe is a poorer place for it.

    "Clevah." She picks up her glass and taps the edge of the base against the surface of the bar a couple of times. "She's used tah fittin' in with awal the other Nahzis. If she ain't deliberately tryin' to keep to herself, she'll pro'bly come around gradually without rilly meanin' to."

    I nod slowly. "Because she doesn't see herself as part of a criminal minority, so she hasn't developed the psychic defences they need to maintain their egos when they resist the herd."
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    That's... An unusual way to look at it, OL.

    "'Herd', huh?"

    "Animals form herds for sound evolutionary reasons. They learn how to behave from all of the other animals around them. I didn't mean it as an insult. And in this case it should be helpful."
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    She presumably has the human instinct to fit in with an in-group, much as OL did when he first arrived. That's a big lever to moderate her tendencies...

    "Unless she internalises bein' an outsidah."

    "So I've got to persuade a group of superheroes to be nice to a self-identifying National Socialist. I mean I… Think they understand what I'm trying to do, but if she acts out in front of a camera it's going to massively undermine Justice League credibility."
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    Never mind the Tabloids, the regular press is going to go postal. Just imagine the local Fox News equivalent's reaction. I picture lots of frothy-mouthed screaming at the camera. Actual words optional.

    "And you ain't got no one you can share Overgirl-babysittin' duty with."

    "No, Kid Flash has a sort of horrified fascination with her. In the short term… On the practical side, I'm more worried about her acting on differences in rules of engagement. Policing works more or less the same on her Earth, but 'threats to the state' are met by lethal force by default."
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    Not surprising. If the superheroes are closer to a state military arm, It's not unlikely that major threats are treated mercilessly.

    "And if a threat comes from someone she thinks is 'subhuman', she ain't gunna hold back none."

    "Not… Reliably."

    "Okay, well, there's a few things you could do…"
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    Which we don't get to hear about, no doubt. It's the Unspoken Plan Guarantee in action...

    Well, Overgirl's presence continues to weigh down the story like the gravity of a neutronium mass... I suspect by the time Grayven's Grand Pony Adventure gallops along, it'll feel like a palate cleanser. Hopefully, the League and Team can keep her from making any mistakes we'll all regret... <Fingers crossed.>
     
    Grimnar said:
    consider you highly irrational
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    I have my reasons.

    I also find "Rational" people tend to stand around going "Let's be reasonable fellas?" While someone is being beaten half to death.

    Not making that up.

    I don't recognize your name, so I won't mentally lump you in with the posters who've actually turned my stomach over all this.
     
    Well, OL is aware of the issues and also smart enough to ask for advice.

    Also that analysis of Overgirl's situation and the human condition in general was very nicely done.

    Good show.

    (I also liked the self aware britain joke :D)

    I'm really looking forward to how this will play out.
     
    Not the whole world, but with Kryptonian tech and Overman and the other Statesmen . . . And a fuck of a lot of genocide while Overman was away . . . Greater Germany probably has a few continents under their belt.

    Most of Europe. Most of North America. Most of Central and Southern Africa. The Moon. Mars.

    Because I'm sure they felt the need to "cleanse" the colonial empires they'd have inherited from the defeated. Gotta build Mittelafrika somehow.

    And even when you live in the areas outside of Nazi control your only other options are simply other ethnonationalist states that are also probably fascist as fuck. At least if you plan on staying in the solar system.

    . . . At least you get to live in utopic conditions if you aren't their idea of sub-human?
     
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