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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
I'm not sure about that one.
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"Type" is not a mass noun, it's straight up singular, so AFAICT the British/American grammar distinction doesn't apply. It doesn't sound wrong to the ear because of how often it's used in phrases like "many of the type are" (but that's plural because of "many") or "which type are you" (but that's plural because of "you").

Mr Zoat said:
Esigrenys
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Ezigrenys, because Zatanna uses American English.

Mr Zoat said:
Pale violet phantasms materialise out of the air around us, intercepting a wave of the smaller mutant gnomes. Some move immediately to grapple while others dissipate around their opponents' fire breath before pulling themselves back together. Any regular gnomes who hadn't already fled are doing so now, and I can see reinforcements for the mutants heading this way.


"I've been in love with you for a year."
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Extra blank line between paragraphs.

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm going to fight the villain. "
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Extra space.

Mr Zoat said:
star sapphire
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Star Sapphire

Mr Zoat said:
genuinely pleased at my complement
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compliment

Chaoswind said:
SV has little appeal
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Oh, it has appeals, they just didn't work. ;)
 
Chaoswind said:
Don't beat yourself about it, SV has little appeal to be honest... Heck don't tell me you are missing the cat and informative ratings?
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Cat, no, I only had that briefly. But the other ratings, yes, a little bit. Funny, for example.
Coda said:
Oh, it has appeals, they just didn't work. ;)
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You see? A 'like' isn't informative.
"Type" is not a mass noun, it's straight up singular, so AFAICT the British/American grammar distinction doesn't apply. It doesn't sound wrong to the ear because of how often it's used in phrases like "many of the type are" (but that's plural because of "many") or "which type are you" (but that's plural because of "you").
Ezigrenys, because Zatanna uses American English.
Extra blank line between paragraphs.
Extra space.
Star Sapphire
compliment
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Thank you, corrected.
 
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Vaermina said:
You shouldn't be, violet constructs are supposed to be immune to the orange light of avarice.

So buffing power rings and removing their weaknesses...

Bad Zoat... Bad...
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Zoat said several times that he has his own specific rules for power rings in this story. As for nerfing, they're supposed to be the most powerful tools in the universe. Buff is a given. In any case, was the immunity supposed to mean they can't be destroyed or just that they can't be co-opted like green constructs?
As we saw from the bit with the medusa mask, emotional manipulation doesn't work on someone who's enlightened.
 
Just because it'd be interesting I hope Zatana goes full Yandere after this (although I don't think zoat will go for it)
 
Sockmonkey said:
Zoat said several times that he has his own specific rules for power rings in this story. As for nerfing, they're supposed to be the most powerful tools in the universe. Buff is a given. In any case, was the immunity supposed to mean they can't be destroyed or just that they can't be co-opted like green constructs?

As we saw from the bit with the medusa mask, emotional manipulation doesn't work on someone who's enlightened.
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The Young Justice setting is a low powered one compared to even places like the JLU-Animated continuity.

And yet Zoat choose to give the power rings in his story standard abilities that even in the comics "didn't exist period", "were highly limited", or "not usable in the way he has them used". On top of which we now find out he's remove one of said power rings main weakness's.

Which is just not healthy for a serious story taking place in a generally low powered setting.
 
Vaermina said:
The Young Justice setting is a low powered one compared to even places like the JLU-Animated continuity.

And yet Zoat choose to give the power rings in his story standard abilities that even in the comics "didn't exist period", "were highly limited", or "not usable in the way he has them used". On top of which we now find out he's remove one of said power rings main weakness's.

Which is just not healthy for a serious story taking place in a generally low powered setting.
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I feel like you're missing the forest for the trees.

With This Ring is about taking the things that are available in the setting and exploring how to take better advantage of them. The fact that it's a "low powered" setting compared to other DC settings is rather irrelevant compared to the fact that even a low-powered setting is ridiculously powerful compared to the real world.

Look at what M'gann can do. Look at what Zatanna can do. Their powers are amplified beyond what they're seen to be using in the Young Justice cartoon, but it's all based on fairly reasonable extrapolations either based on what HAS been observed or based on ideas that are in-character for the expanded setting of the fic.

There's absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

It would be unhealthy if this were supposed to be an ongoing integrated canon with other DC franchises, but it's not. It's an independent story in its own right. It's certainly no worse than what happens in other DC continuities. The big difference is that Mr Zoat is being rational about it, keeping track of what things are known to be able to do (WITHIN THE WTR CONTEXT, not in comparison to any other story) instead of throwing around arbitrary new powers without foreshadowing or consistency.

He hasn't removed any narratively significant weaknesses. What he's removed is narratively arbitrary weaknesses. Why should any color of power ring trump any other? That's not a weakness, that's just elemental rock-paper-scissors. That's boring and not very good for storytelling.

The weaknesses power rings are established to have are instead built up in narratively relevant ways.

The BIGGEST weakness of a power ring is the Lantern wielding it. Characters are characters, not power sets that can talk. So the weaknesses of an individual person matter a lot more than the weaknesses of their arsenal.

Power rings can't operate forever. That's a weakness that's relevant to any sufficiently strong opponent.

Magic and power rings are peers. They have similar flexibility, similar power levels, and spheres of influence that don't fully overlap. This means that magic is always going to be a relevant force to deal with instead of being an arbitrary trump card one way or the other.

Constructs are basically physical. They can be broken with sufficient force. They can be bypassed by things that can bypass other forms of defense. They can be blocked by physical objects. In other words, they have limitations.

What would be unhealthy is if Zoat took away one of these established weaknesses. Finding clever ways around them in limited instances is good -- in fact that's one of the fundamental themes of With This Ring. It keeps weaknesses from being trump cards and adds depth to the story. (Kryptonite is an awful plot device.) But even in the face of this ingenuity there are still limitations.

Or are you going to say that DC making Green Lanterns able to affect the color yellow was unhealthy?
 
Coda said:
He hasn't removed any narratively significant weaknesses. What he's removed is narratively arbitrary weaknesses. Why should any color of power ring trump any other? That's not a weakness, that's just elemental rock-paper-scissors. That's boring and not very good for storytelling.
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*sighs*

There are complex reasons why the Color spectrum has the weakness's it does. So calling it "arbitrary" is just showing a lack understanding in concerns to the setting.

What would be unhealthy is if Zoat took away one of these established weaknesses. Finding clever ways around them in limited instances is good -- in fact that's one of the fundamental themes of With This Ring. It keeps weaknesses from being trump cards and adds depth to the story. (Kryptonite is an awful plot device.) But even in the face of this ingenuity there are still limitations.
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Except Zoat did take away one of your listed weaknesses, specifically this one.

The BIGGEST weakness of a power ring is the Lantern wielding it. Characters are characters, not power sets that can talk. So the weaknesses of an individual person matter a lot more than the weaknesses of their arsenal.
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Or did you forget that with real Power Rings you can't just say "Ring create X" or "Ring create Y" you have to be able to envision every single part of whatever it is you want to create a construct of.
 
Vaermina said:
Or did you forget that with real Power Rings you can't just say "Ring create X" or "Ring create Y" you have to be able to envision every single part of whatever it is you want to create a construct of.
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The only part that this contradicts is the fact that OL enhanced his body and mind when he first came to Earth Prime. He CAN visualize the entire construct - because he changed his mind to do so. Remember, he used the ring to give himself the ability to think super fast and have a better memory. The ring, unlike a normal GL ring, also heavily influences the mind anyways - he just turned that to his advantage. When he did this, he describes only accessing the memory when using the ring. His mind is interfaced with the ring computer. This is unique to the orange rings in this. He can make knowledge from the internet/ stored in the ring, HIS. This is similar enough to canon orange rings, which were OP anyways, with one member being able to match the entire GL corps. Notice - none of the GLs do the same memory/ detailed construct trick - their ring doesn't alter their minds. Neither does Grayven, who has to communicate with Sinestro, and doesn't really use constructs. More than that, he had the Ophidian inside his head, which now allows him to actually make constructs like he does. Not only is he enlightened, but his mind was altered to be able to accommodate the Ophidian's thought processes. For all we know, this made him capable of actually processing that much greed without help. Similar happened to Hal Jordan in canon, but temporarily - he made the space station castle construct. He didn't change canon, he just detailed what it is about the orange ring that makes it able to face all the green rings. However, they still have simultaneously weaknesses to the rings in canon, just that in canon they were already OP.

More than that, in the "In Praise Of Eros" side story, he recently theorizes that this ability to change his own body / mind with the ring was specific to him - as a bonus for coming from Earth Prime or something. It's not necessarily specifically an OL ability, but one unique to himself.
 
Hoard (part 16)
  • Threadmarks
    • 11th January
    23:59 GMT +1

    "…what Jade's got that I haven't."

    Zatanna casually creates a violet barrier to block a barrage of fire blasted at us from the mutants occupying the tunnel Amon just flew through.

    "Jade was an independent adult at the point-" I fire iron railgun shots blindly through the inferno, disrupting it for a moment. "-at which I was looking for a relationship."

    "That sounds like a-" Zatanna waves her staff, another wave of violet crystal shards erupting through the rock. While that does reduce the quantity of fire coming our way, the crystal is melting rapidly under their ferocious attack and it doesn't actually appear to have killed a meaningful number. "-weak reason, just picking whoever was available at the time. How does she help you?"

    The simple answer is 'she doesn't', but I don't want to risk encouraging her. "She helps me maintain perspective on what I'm doing."

    I trigger my armour's phasing system but-. No, the rock is enchanted to prevent that. I might be able to phase through the fire… I load a phasic round into my railgun construct and fire it through a gap in the crystal formation. Monitor progre-. No, destroyed while phased.

    "And she has sex with you. Is that what this is about?" She glances upwards. "Incoming."

    We both fly to evade as three of the larger type of gnome mutants land on our platform, a translucent barrier appearing at the edge as they land. Fire billows from the mouths of the two furthest away, while the closest swings at me with a heavy chain! For a split second I generate an inertial dampener construct and use the resulting sudden change in my momentum to jerk back as the metal links gouge the stonework in front of me, then fly -the chain is held in the mutant's right hand- left and open fire with iron slugs. I hit it in the chest several times, resulting-. Minor wounds which heal almost immediately.

    The big ones are super tough as well as super strong.

    If it's biological super toughness like the Danner Formula then I can wear them down. Except that I'm sure there are more coming and I strongly suspect that it's actually magical super toughness, which will keep going so long as arcane power is supplied to it.

    "No! That's not why!"

    I dismiss the railgun and switch to a cold gun, going for height to evade my opponent's fiery breath as it recovers its chain. Move to the side slightly and aim for the head… No effect at survivable levels, turn it down all the way…

    The gnome tosses its head slightly in irritation then swings its chain through the air at me, forcing me to evade.

    Magic resistance to temperature change. Marvellous.

    "I'm sixteen in-" Runes flake off the axe of one of the mutants as Zatanna flies to stay out of its reach, evaporating into violet smoke. "-three weeks!"

    "Not the point!"

    Switch back to railguns, load crumbler rounds, fire tho-.

    Flames surge over my armour and I move to evade. Not penetrating yet, which is good, but the smaller mutants are climbing up the sides of the platform. Ugh, it's like late game Mass Effect: we're too tough to hurt each other. Mage slayers. Aim, wait for a -.

    Bwouff!

    I'm slammed into the ground by a giant.. club. Bypassed my kinetic barrier. Armour.. took it-. I fly along the floor as the large mutant who took the swing lifts it for another shot. Okay, first target. The first round hits it on its right middle finger, provoking a flinch and-.

    And I'm dodging again because there's more fire. Alright, that's it. I load iron rounds again and fire at the smaller mutants on full automatic. Clearly lacking their larger cousins' toughness they go flying off the edge or fall to a bloodied heap on the ground. Great, breathing room.

    Zatanna swirls her staff, gathering up.. fire, and condensing it into an incandescent ball over her head. "You like fire? Here."

    The air howls as the flying thermodynamics violation slams into the chest of the axe-wielder, burning straight through armour and skin and exploding! The mutant collapses, falling backwards onto the stone floor. Somehow it's not dead, but there's clearly a limit to how much heat they can take.

    Warded against cold but not heat. Unfortunately, Leonard Snart's weapon can't be used to excite molecular vibrations, only stop them. But a fusion gun should be able to do the.. job…

    The surviving smaller mutants are scarpering. Okay, not going to complain. My first fusion shot hits the club-wielder on the right hand, burning through both the fingers and the haft of the weapon. As its weapon falls from its grip it tries to close the distance with me, a blast of flame blocking my movement as its fist comes around. I raise my arms into a guard as I recharge the fusion gun, taking the hit and being slammed into the ground… Which triggers my kinetic barrier because the floor isn't enchanted with attack spells. The mutant opens its mouth to breathe fire again but I fire first, melting the right side of its face down to the bone.

    "RaaaaaGH!"

    It staggers away, clawing at its face. And this is why I don't use fusion weapons! They're slow to fire and unreliable! Railgun, mage slayer, at the eye, fire.

    The round punches through what's left of the eye and-. Its… Head.. shrinks, the remaining flesh.. now looking more like that of the regular gnomes. Ah, that's… Useful to know. Arcane transmutation changes one thing into another, but certain types of shapeshifting can be reversed just by removing the source of the change. Of course, we still need to actually find that…

    The remaining large mutant backs up towards the corridor we were attempting to breach, the smaller mutants who were preventing us apparently having fallen back already. It's adopted a guarding posture, and isn't trying to press us. Zatanna flies over to hover next to me.

    "Because if the age of consent is different in Britain-."

    "Themyscira. Also, I'm not that shallow. Having sex with Jade was.. just a part of how our relationship developed, not why I got into it. Please don't think it was about that." I sigh. "I think the spell which is turning the gnomes into mutants is a constant effect. Can you nullify it?"

    "Yes, but I can't counter the spells on all of them. So why can't it be a part of how our relationship develops?"

    "Because, firstly, you're not in your right mind, and as I've said, I'm not even-."

    "I haven't only just started feeling like this."

    "I know. Then you've got-" I can hear air moving again. "-the age difference-"

    "Four years?"

    I wince inwardly. "-which is significant at our age, and the fact that our society defaults to a monogamous model of romantic relationships."

    Okay, that… Doesn't sound like an air pump. The large mutant before us squeezes back into the passageway. We could attack, but I've got a nasty suspicion-.

    And then the dragon flies up from the void below us.

    Glowing orange, with a power ring around its left horn.

    …

    Shit.
     
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    • kedgisgo said:
    ... sup Fafnir. Sweet bling.

    also; magic + power ring = awesome^2

    to quote Ron Stoppable: "That would be so awesome, if it wasn't trying to kill us."

    (I am assuming its Fafnir, because its the only "greed dragon" I know of in public domain, maybe DC has others...)
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    Drakul Karfang. Name's on the image link.
     
    Mquz said:
    The only part that this contradicts is the fact that OL enhanced his body and mind when he first came to Earth Prime. He CAN visualize the entire construct - because he changed his mind to do so. Remember, he used the ring to give himself the ability to think super fast and have a better memory. The ring, unlike a normal GL ring, also heavily influences the mind anyways - he just turned that to his advantage. When he did this, he describes only accessing the memory when using the ring. His mind is interfaced with the ring computer. This is unique to the orange rings in this. He can make knowledge from the internet/ stored in the ring, HIS. This is similar enough to canon orange rings, which were OP anyways, with one member being able to match the entire GL corps. Notice - none of the GLs do the same memory/ detailed construct trick - their ring doesn't alter their minds. Neither does Grayven, who has to communicate with Sinestro, and doesn't really use constructs. More than that, he had the Ophidian inside his head, which now allows him to actually make constructs like he does. Not only is he enlightened, but his mind was altered to be able to accommodate the Ophidian's thought processes. For all we know, this made him capable of actually processing that much greed without help. Similar happened to Hal Jordan in canon, but temporarily - he made the space station castle construct. He didn't change canon, he just detailed what it is about the orange ring that makes it able to face all the green rings. However, they still have simultaneously weaknesses to the rings in canon, just that in canon they were already OP.

    More than that, in the "In Praise Of Eros" side story, he recently theorizes that this ability to change his own body / mind with the ring was specific to him - as a bonus for coming from Earth Prime or something. It's not necessarily specifically an OL ability, but one unique to himself.
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    I don't think you're getting the level of things being talked about... Let me get you a very relevant quote from the animated series.

    Aya, what happened?

    Overload due to hairline crack in the ultra-warp coil. Most likely caused by last missile hit by enemy probe.

    For the record, she said most likely Not totally likely.

    What does that mean?

    It means we're gonna be a little late to Oa.

    That's okay, I like to make an entrance.

    Aya, please estimate time for repairs.

    Calculating. Ultra-warp ready in nine point two

    Nine minutes, no problem!

    Nine point two one months.

    Okay Can we form a construct and replace the defective part for the ride home?

    The construct would have to be an exact copy of the ultra-warp coil mechanism. And it's 56 moving parts to within a 0.8162 microns tolerance. Can either of you do that?

    I make hammers.
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    While something like a photographic memory might help you make a machine gun, for anything like supertech you would have to be a Lex Luthor level supergenius. And Paul isn't anywhere near that.
     
    Let's see.. Will Paul go the direct route of "remove the dangerous ring" by attempting to out-avarice a dragon? I'm leaning towards "no." We know that Paul has difficulty with efficient, large-scale expressions of Orange light (remember the largest barrier he attempted to use against the sea Titan). I think he will realize dragons, or at least this dragon, will put up a struggle. He also has too many enemies to risk putting all of his focus on concentrated avarice.
    I wonder if Paul will decide against a beatdown. Perhaps he will attempt to forcefully drag this beast into the Honden of Avarice in order to restore the minds of his teammates.
     
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