With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[moralrelativity]

Zoat gave a WoG a few pages back, this is future!Paragon Paul.

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Thank you for filling me in. Much appreciated.

And Vaermina keeps on harping on about Zoat somehow not having the authorial fiat to say that.

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I muted them several weeks ago. It seems that decision paid off again.

 

[Senevri]

I say this as someone who very much enjoyed Gate, but it's blatant and unapologetic JSDF propaganda and Japanese-wank in general. Japan could almost certainly manage to play the major powers off each other by way of offering tidbits and pieces of what they bring back, but it would only work to whet the appetites of the other nations and ward off the inevitable by some few years. I'd give it a decade at the most, and even that's with a few serious concessions on Japan's part to the rest of the world in terms of research data, etc...

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That's... Interesting. Yes, Gate is pro-JSDF and pro-japan, but no more than, say, Stargate or Iron Man are for USA. It doesn't even really register.

As for whether Japan would cave in to demands... That depends. I think only like two years have passed up to the point I've seen. It would kinda depend whether Japan can use the gate resources to get Sufficiently Advanced before ultimatums come.
Given that the point of the show is modernity mostly trumping fantasy, with few notable exceptions, that might be much to ask.
Yet on the other hand, the size of the gate bottlenecks the RAW resource amounts so much it actually isn't that interesting. It's mostly just about exotic samples, and those the other countries will probably be able to buy eventually.

 

[RichardWhereat]

For the record, you really shouldn't. The anime is terrible. Here's thirteen minutes ripping apart not just the anime, but the story itself. Read the manga instead, but be aware that it is quite long and your mileage will vary.

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Oh, yeah.. This video destroys any desire to read or watch it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That's... Interesting. Yes, Gate is pro-JSDF and pro-japan, but no more than, say, Stargate or Iron Man are for USA. It doesn't even really register.

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Yes, Stargate was a bit bad for that. They narrowly dodged multiple apocalypses brought about by their actions and didn't even consider telling other countries until they had no choice.

However, I don't remember the militaries of other countries being shown as universally incompetent or having nonsensical motivations.

What period of Iron Man are you referring to?

 

[Impartial Panic]

I think I'm going to have to watch Gate to understand this one.

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A scout force from a Rome/Mideval empire goes through a magic gate and arrives in The Ginza district of tokyo.
mayhem ensues and some of the scout force makes it back with some captured slaves.

Japan interrogates members of the scout force and then sends a task force to secure the other end of the gate.

Once they have a foothold the Empire gets word of this and sends in the Legions.

First "Battle" of Alnus hill ensues and is a one sided slaughter.

This looks like it's taking place some time between the First and second Battle of Alnus hill.

The second Battle is The emperor Calling all his Vassal states and their armies to move in on the hill.
Either it removes the JSDF or It weakens the Vassals so they don't get ideas now that the Legions are diminished.

one of the other knock off effects of the Battles is Deserters from the legions that managed to survive the battle turn to banditry and ravage the countryside

this directly leads to the siege of Italica and the JSDF breaking said siege with helicopter air support
and again a one sided slaughter.

so looks like Paul is trying to either prevent the second battle or at least keep the Vassal kings alive to hamstring the Emperors ambitions.
plus if said kings survive to spread word that they are hopelessly outmatched the emperor looks like a fool and will have to be wary of suffering "accidents"

of course this leaves First Prince Zorzal up for the throne and he have made great strides in the field of being a fucking moron.

 

[Darko]

Zoat you may want to change the coloring of your title for this episode to red.

When I asked you if this was going to be a renegade focused episode you said yes.

Zoat are we going to see another Earth 12 chapter tomorrow?

Is the next episode going to be renegade focused?

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Yes to both.

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The title for this episode, Summers End, should be in red like the previous renegade episodes titles, assuming this is still going to be renegade focused.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Zoat you may want to change the coloring of your title for this episode to red.

When I asked you if this was going to be a renegade focused episode you said yes.

The title for this episode, Summers End, should be in red like the previous renegade episodes titles, assuming this is still going to be renegade focused.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

Thank you, corrected.

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Ahh, the title is still colored in the color you use for paragon chapters instead of being red like a renegade chapter.

Summer's End

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[GhostKing 666]

Yes, Stargate was a bit bad for that. They narrowly dodged multiple apocalypses brought about by their actions and didn't even consider telling other countries until they had no choice.

However, I don't remember the militaries of other countries being shown as universally incompetent or having nonsensical motivations

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CoughRussiaCough. But yeah, almost anytime Russia showed up, it was usually because they did something that they needed the Americans to save them from, with occasionally them being useful allies.

 

[Sockmonkey]

CoughRussiaCough. But yeah, almost anytime Russia showed up, it was usually because they did something that they needed the Americans to save them from, with occasionally them being useful allies.

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To be fair, the US fucked up some things as well, and had it's share of corrupt/incompetent military and political figures. It's more along the lines of "the SG-1 team has to save the bacon of every country, including their own.

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

However, I don't remember the militaries of other countries being shown as universally incompetent or having nonsensical motivations.

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CoughRussiaCough. But yeah, almost anytime Russia showed up, it was usually because they did something that they needed the Americans to save them from, with occasionally them being useful allies.

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Yeah, Russia was the butt-monkey of SG-1. After their initial forays into attempting to use a stargate, they were either America's yes-men in international politics or simply "those guys who use the threat of 'taking back their stargate' and never actually go through with it".

To be fair, the US fucked up some things as well, and had it's share of corrupt/incompetent military and political figures. It's more along the lines of "the SG-1 team has to save the bacon of every country, including their own.

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To elaborate on this, it was biased to be in support of the US military to the detriment of civilian and private organizations, such as the NID, politicians, the media, and the wealthy. Given, it was fairly nuanced in its approach, but that bias was still clearly there every time there was a subplot centered around control of the stargate program.

I'll hate on the government, politicians, the media, and the wealthy as much if not more than the next American, but choosing the military over them? Ehhh... Not something to talk about on this here forum.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes, Stargate was a bit bad for that. They narrowly dodged multiple apocalypses brought about by their actions and didn't even consider telling other countries until they had no choice.

However, I don't remember the militaries of other countries being shown as universally incompetent or having nonsensical motivations.

What period of Iron Man are you referring to?

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What you forgot to mention, is that that was because we were watching the threading the needle timeline, and the Earth's in the timelines that did those other things died horribly.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Yes, Stargate was a bit bad for that. They narrowly dodged multiple apocalypses brought about by their actions and didn't even consider telling other countries until they had no choice.

However, I don't remember the militaries of other countries being shown as universally incompetent or having nonsensical motivations.

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I remember the episode of SG-1 where the Russian Gate program was wiped out, and it was their fault.

And really, none of the other nations figured out what was going on? Our security is good, but not that good. That is some incompetence on the international intelligence community. (It's Cheyenne mountain, that is a joint US/Canadian facility. Canada should have easily put the bloody pieces together.)

I admit, SG-1 was more balanced and subtitle on how it treated foreign Earth governments. Alien governments were constantly shat on though.

I think GATE would have been better with a multi-national force lead by Japan. Perhaps build more suspense by having magic users actually used to fight us. (I did feel bad about laughing at the 120,000 dead enemy combatants. I mean, why did they keep charging into death like that? We figured out Calvary charges don't work less than a month into WW1 and each nation learned that lesson less than once.... usually.)

Still, it was nice to see another nation doing the "(local), Fuck Yeah" for a change.

 

[ForeverShogo]

I'm not really sure how Paul's longevity could possibly be unique.

Who wants to be old and decrepit? If you're not already suicidal, who wants to die? Even as a subconscious desire, a general state of youthfulness and good health seems like it'd be pretty much a given.

Unless you're saying that with most people, eventually ennui gets the better of them and they just stop wanting to extend their lifespan.

 

[Darko]

I'm not really sure how Paul's longevity could possibly be unique.

Who wants to be old and decrepit? If you're not already suicidal, who wants to die? Even as a subconscious desire, a general state of youthfulness and good health seems like it'd be pretty much a given.

Unless you're saying that with most people, eventually ennui gets the better of them and they just stop wanting to extend their lifespan.

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I think it's more like some people just aren't afraid of death and are perfectly at peace with dying.

This doesn't mean they're suicidal, but that they're just not afraid to die.

Yeah they may like to extend their lifespan a bit and stay in good health but they may not want to live forever.

Paul probably isn't unique in the longevity department when it comes to the OLC and its Lanterns, but that doesn't mean that there aren't Lanterns who just aren't interested in immortality or longevity.

 

[Vaermina]

Bit surprised this Paul is willing to travel to other universes given if he dies in them he won't get an afterlife.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ahh, the title is still colored in the color you use for paragon chapters instead of being red like a renegade chapter.

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Thank you, corrected.

CoughRussiaCough. But yeah, almost anytime Russia showed up, it was usually because they did something that they needed the Americans to save them from, with occasionally them being useful allies.

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Russia had a Stargate program going for a while before their base got taken over. That sort of thing happened to the SGC several times. The only difference is that we also saw the SGC's successful missions.

I remember the episode of SG-1 where the Russian Gate program was wiped out, and it was there fault.

And really, none of the other nations figured out what was going on? Our security is good, but not that good. That is some incompetence on the international intelligence community. (It's Cheyenne mountain, that is a joint US/Canadian facility. Canada should have easily put the bloody pieces together.)

I admit, SG-1 was more balanced and subtitle on how it treated foreign Earth governments. Alien governments were constantly shat on though.

I think GATE would have been better with a multi-national force lead by Japan. Perhaps build more suspense by having magic users actually used to fight us. (I did feel bad about laughing at the 120,000 dead enemy combatants. I mean, why did they keep charging into death like that? We figured out Calvary charges don't work less than a month into WW1 and each nation learned that lesson less than once.... usually.)

Still, it was nice to see another nation doing the "(local), Fuck Yeah" for a change.

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There's a fic around here somewhere where the fact that the US responded immediately to the Saderan Empire with all of the forces they've got in Japan, combined with the fact that the closest military unit to the emergence point is in real life the marines guarding the US embassy, meant that the Japanese had to let the US take part. The result was a double stomp, though at least the harem got shared around a bit more.

 

[Vaermina]

Russia had a Stargate program going for a while before their base got taken over. That sort of thing happened to the SGC several times. The only difference is that we also saw the SGC's successful missions.

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Actually the only difference was that Russia installed a no countdown Nerve Gas system that would kill every living thing in the base.

Which killed every living thing on the base...

 

[Cuchulin]

Paul probably isn't unique in the longevity department when it comes to the OLC and its Lanterns, but that doesn't mean that there aren't Lanterns who just aren't interested in immortality or longevity.

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It's very likely the members of the OLC who species have shorter life spans will have them extend because they want to live nearly as long as their close friends, companions and loved ones. I remember there was a Green Lantern from one race very long lived race that fell in love with Hal Jordan, where despite the fact that she was older than him looked like a 12 year old.

 

[Darko]

It's very likely the members of the OLC who species have shorter life spans will have them extend because they want to live nearly as long as their close friends, companions and loved ones. I remember there was a Green Lantern from one race very long lived race that fell in love with Hal Jordan, where despite the fact that she was older than him looked like a 12 year old.

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I didn't know about this.

Guess the thing with Arisia Rabb wasn't his only weird and disturbing romance in the GLC.

 

[Gantradies]

Actually the only difference was that Russia installed a no countdown Nerve Gas system that would kill every living thing in the base.

Which killed every living thing on the base...

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*facepalms* did they take an OPFOR using robotics/sealed environmental gear into account, or did they canonically jump for a half-assed solution?
that...sounds like a pretty dumb solution even for peak I-WORKED-WITH-STALIN-AND-NOW-BELIEVE-EVERYONE-AROUND-ME-IS-PLANNING-TO-MURDER-ME-era Soviet paranoia...

... i mean, alien life as a threat- absolutely -no- guarantee that any per-formulated agent will have the desired effect on their biology/metabolism....

....they had a remote-triggered nuke as a backup, right? right?

 

[Stsword]

It's very likely the members of the OLC who species have shorter life spans will have them extend because they want to live nearly as long as their close friends, companions and loved ones. I remember there was a Green Lantern from one race very long lived race that fell in love with Hal Jordan, where despite the fact that she was older than him looked like a 12 year old.

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No, my fault, I misremembered that storyline into something that actually made some sense.

I thought that Arisia's argument was that the years on her planet were longer than Earth's so she was technically older.

I had forgotten a rule one should remember when it comes to comics- writers were obviously paid in drugs and booze.

Arisia's argument was that her planet's years were half as long as Earth's, so while she was 13 in Earth years she was 26 in Gratoxian years.

An argument that's kind of up there with "I'm of age in dog years!"

 

[Vaermina]

*facepalms* did they take an OPFOR using robotics/sealed environmental gear into account, or did they canonically jump for a half-assed solution?
that...sounds like a pretty dumb solution even for peak I-WORKED-WITH-STALIN-AND-NOW-BELIEVE-EVERYONE-AROUND-ME-IS-PLANNING-TO-MURDER-ME-era Soviet paranoia...

... i mean, alien life as a threat- absolutely -no- guarantee that any per-formulated agent will have the desired effect on their biology/metabolism....

....they had a remote-triggered nuke as a backup, right? right?

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As far as we know the Nerve Gas was only thing they had...

 

[DrThoth]

I was re-reading Episode 81 (Hoard AKA The One with the Dragon) and wanted to ask if we'll see the gnome warren and how Switzerland is doing with their new citizenry anytime soon. Are they getting in touch with other gnome warrens in the world or anything like that? I'm not sure what the scope of their proposed Dolmen Gate project is, but it seems like something the EU would be interested in, especially if there are other warrens.

 

[Cuchulin]

No, my fault, I misremembered that storyline into something that actually made some sense.
I thought that Arisia's argument was that the years on her planet were longer than Earth's so she was technically older.
I had forgotten a rule one should remember when it comes to comics- writers were obviously paid in drugs and booze.
Arisia's argument was that her planet's years were half as long as Earth's, so while she was 13 in Earth years she was 26 in Gratoxian years.
An argument that's kind of up there with "I'm of age in dog years!"

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That makes sense, slightly more sense to have happened in a main stream comic. But at the same time I can easily see a "Space Elf" that is Forty or fifty Earth years old but looks like she is about thirteen maybe fourteen and claiming that made it okay to have a relationship with a thirty to forty year old human. I mean how old is the Martian Man hunter in the comics? Also YJ M'gann M'orzz is about twice as old as she seems and by dating Super Boy she is technically robbing the cradle almost literally.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I remember the episode of SG-1 where the Russian Gate program was wiped out, and it was their fault.

And really, none of the other nations figured out what was going on? Our security is good, but not that good. That is some incompetence on the international intelligence community. (It's Cheyenne mountain, that is a joint US/Canadian facility. Canada should have easily put the bloody pieces together.)

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The show itself showed the US Airforce in such good light due to the fact that they partnered with the show runners, which let them get access to a few places and toys. The constant use of the external shots of the base were of the actual NORAD base. The show however was filmed in canada, and a lot of the extra's were Canadian.

The only in universe Canadian that gets screen time was Dr Rodney McKay. He showed up a handful of times on SG1 but was main cast for the spinoff for Atlantis.( By dint of his Canadian-ness the Ancient power sources are refereed to as Zed-P-M's and not Zee-P-M's on the show most of the time.) The character, at age 6, built a non working nuclear warhead for a science fair, which he complains about the CIA coming to collect it....which is REALLY weird considering...CANADA, whats the CIA doing here? This is a job for CSIS. Anyway, in his pre spinnoff days he was working at Area 51 and was a peer to Carter in Gate based tech.

That bit actually makes a fair amount of sense, Lockheed's Skunk Works, and a lot of the other stuff at Groom Lake, were staffed by folks that left Canada after the Avro programs shut down. Many of the same people went to NASA around that time too. And Yes, we're still bitter about the Avro Arrow Project.

 

[Darko]

I was re-reading Episode 81 (Hoard AKA The One with the Dragon) and wanted to ask if we'll see the gnome warren and how Switzerland is doing with their new citizenry anytime soon. Are they getting in touch with other gnome warrens in the world or anything like that? I'm not sure what the scope of their proposed Dolmen Gate project is, but it seems like something the EU would be interested in, especially if there are other warrens.

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The gnomes may not be able to mass produce those gates like the Atlantians can, even if they make contact with other Warren's.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I tumble through thin air-

Oh
Fuck

-as Artemis slips from my grip, rings guttering as I try to generate a flight aura. To no avail. Above us the Castle Revolving is.. gone -if it was ever there- and I see only a murky mist through which a dull red light shines. Below, grey, grey and more grey.

Mother Box?

Ppppppppiiiiiiinggg.

Oh dear. Right, aero-discs.

I'm jerked around for a moment as they misfire, Artemis.. drifting further away as she flattens herself in the air to stabilise her tumbling and maximise her air resistance. I'm a little behind in her health checks, but I… Don't think she's tough enough to survive a terminal velocity fall onto rock. In my case-

She carefully takes an arrow from her quiver, puts it on her bow and fires it at the ground. A second arrow follows it.

-I'm more worried about the health of what I land on. Unless this is a future where Apokolips opened up some fire pits…

In any case, landing on people would create a bad impression. I Am The Eggman. I Am The Walrus.

My aero-discs finally activate, and-
Cut Through Space.
-rainbow bubbles percolate through the air below us-
Path to the Ground.
-and then the ground is there and we're slamming into crash-foam.

Artemis lands flat, sinks a short distance as the space age quick-hardening rubber depresses to absorb her kinetic energy, and then rebounds, leaping a short distance into the air. Then I hit it and it explodes, flecks of white foam flying in all directions as Artemis lands lightly a short distance away.

And my aero-discs fail again. But I'm down, and a small amount of residual rubber aside I'm none the worse for wear.

"Artemis, are you alright?"

"Uh-huh." She's looking around. "What just happened?"

"Sivana sprung a surprise on me. Us. The plan was for me to board the Castle Revolving-"

I look myself over and begin plucking strips of rubber off myself.

"-alone, but…"

"He wanted revenge for them killing his family."

I nod. "I knew that he was distressed, but after we prevented Magnificus committing suicide I assumed that he'd.. worked through it."

"So you don't think he managed to… Undo time and bring them back?"

"I doubt it. Not in a rush job like that." I give her my full attention. "Was that Tao's rainbow bridge technique?"

"Yeah, I've been able to do it for a few months now." She stops scanning our environment and gives me her full attention. "Which you'd know if you ever came around the Mountain any more."

"I don't.. think I'm authorised." Quick equipment check… Daiklave's still there. Yay. Sword of the Fallen… Yes. Ranged weapons are a big fat no, and drones..? No, no drones.

"You know where we all live."

"You know where I live. And unlike you, I set my own admissions policy. How is Miss Kane getting along?"

"She's-." She looks around again. "Can we focus? Where are we?"

I look around. The ground is covered in… Some sort of grey… Building material? Coral? Without a ring I can't do a proper analysis, but I don't recognise it. Not Apokoliptian though, so there's that at least.

"Not sure. That green liquid is supposed to send things that go through it to random points in time, and assuming that it ignored galactic drift somehow this should be Earth."

"Past or future?"

I nod. "One of those." Hm. "If that red light is reflected volcanism then this could be the past. And the sky could be obscured by high altitude dust. Finding food could be awkward if we're that far back. Alternately-."

"We're in the far future and the sun's turning into a red giant."

"In which case that's evaporated water up there. Except…" I hold my hands out to the sides. "If the sun's expanded enough to heat up the Earth to the point of evaporating enough water to enshroud the entire planet… The surface should be hotter than this. There should be a run-away greenhouse effect, like on Venus. I mean… Is it just me? Does this feel hot to you?"

"It feels… Maybe sixty?"

Or fifteen in new money. Which matches my estimation. I nod.

"So the temperature's wrong for a natural system-death."

"Unless they're using Captain Cold's freeze technology to keep the planet cool."

"I… Kind of hope that human civilisation either has better things to do than preserve the old homeworld or they've got a better way to do it. Because frankly, if anyone wants to live here then letting the sun go giant is a sub-optimal outcome."

"I…"

Artemis trails off, frowning. Then she crouches down and uses a target arrow to pick up a fragment of rubber. It's heavily decayed, falling apart as we watch, and I idly note that the rest is doing the same thing.

I nod approvingly. "Very environmentally friendly."

"Yeah, it would be, but this stuff isn't. We couldn't make something that did what we wanted and melted fast and safe afterwards. This stuff should stick around for days unless someone uses a solvent."

I nod. "My rings are dead, otherwise I'd run an analysis. And Mother Box is…"

"Peeeeiiing."

"Struggling."

"There could be chemicals in the air." She prods her arm computer and gets no response. "Nothing. Any idea what kills power rings?"

I raise my left hand and take a closer look.

"I don't think they're damaged. It just looks like… Their power's drained. I was near full power when I went through the portal, and… I don't think that protecting us in transit would have wiped the batteries by itself."

She stows her bow and pries open the computer's casing. "Doesn't look like there's anything wrong with-." She blinks, and I step forward to take a closer look.

The metal is corroding as I watch. There's already a patina across nearly-. Across the entire surface. Plastic is becoming brittle and flaking.

"What's happening?"

"I don't know. Some sort of.. curse, perhaps?"

I take another look at my rings, but other than the lack of power they're both fine. I draw my daiklave and look it over carefully, but it doesn't appear to be affected. I stab the point into the ground and it cuts through perfectly well. My armour… Yes, that's fine.

Artemis has taken her arrows out and is checking them, muttering curses as the material of the shaft crumbles in her grip.

"Your.. bow?"

She drops the decaying remains of the arrow and examines her bow. It looks fine to me, and it appears that she agrees. "Scott and Barda got me this from an Apokoliptian chick they beat up. But most of these arrows were made on Earth."

I nod. "Whatever's doing this, New God technology is… At least resistant." I look around into the fog. "We need to investigate."

 

[hance1986]

Sooo Sheeda future? They have to raid the past because in their present nothing stays.

 

[Darko]

"I doubt it. Not in a rush job like that." I give her my full attention. "Was that Tao's rainbow bridge technique?"

"Yeah, I've been able to do it for a few months now." She stops scanning our environment and gives me her full attention. "Which you'd know if you ever came around the Mountain any more."

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So she's been getting some tips on magic archery from Tao.

What was that bridge thing supposed to do, I don't remember much about the Great Ten comics, was it some kind of teleportation?

In any case, landing on people would create a bad impression. I Am The Eggman. I Am The Walrus.

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Stan Smith will be the walrus.

(Sorry can't highlight god speech)

How is Miss Kane getting along?"

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Who was this again?

letter the sun

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'letting the sun'

"Scott and Barda got me this from an Apokoliptian chick they beat up.

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Ahh take it from Artemiz to give it to Artemis.