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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Time for some back of the napkin math.

Reality
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming something like real world Neutronium, aka 'material that's density throughout is equal to that of the nucleus of an atom' , aka 'the material making up a Neutron Star' , there is a theoretical lower limit to how much mass it would require to Stay in that state. Mass lower then this value would lead to the substance expanding outwards since the gravity of the mass is no longer enough to keep it in this compressed state, which would be a large explosion leading to a lot of hydrogen atoms being released.

It's a complex and ongoing study to find this value, known as the 'Chandrasekhar limit' on the low end and the 'Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit' on the high end. Current math seems to indicate a value around 1.4 stellar masses minimum and 2.2 max.

The sun comes in at a little under 2.0×1030​ kg, which puts our minimum mass for something to consist of Neutronium and stay that way between 2.8×1030​ kg and 4.4×1030​ kg.

While weighing more then our sun, due to the compression effects of the mass and the nova that creates them, neutron stars are far FAR smaller in radius. A quick search lists off some of the smaller known pulsars (spinning neutron stars that emit fancy radiation) at between 2.6 and 16 km in radius. Most come out to around 10 km radius, for a volume of 4200 km2​.

To put that in perspective, that's a volume somewhere between Lake Huron and Lake Michigan. Visible from Space scales.

So you have an object that weighs from 'a bit more' to 'more then double' our Sun, that's around the size of a Very Large Lake, just to be the substance in question.

So, we've got a mass and now we want to figure out the acceleration that mass inflicts on an object, since that's the 'vibration'. Lucky for us gravity is pretty simple, in that it follows the inverse square law, like other field effects, and the gravitational constant goes linearly with mass. Note that all we care about really is the mass, the density or size of the object doesn't matter unless you're trying to poke it.

Acceleration due to stellar bodies can be derived from their mass and distance, but I'm just going to be lazy and go off existing known values.

Acceleration due to mass of earth is 9.8 m/s2​ or 32 ft/s 2​
So that's 1 G
Acceleration due to mass of The Sun is 275 m/s2​ or 896 ft/s 2​
So That's 28 G.

So, ballparking the acceleration of our minimum sized chunk of Neutronium as having 1.1 to 2.1 stellar masses, thus having similar acceleration factors, somewhere between 30.8 and 58.8 G's.

Having that 'suddenly' turn up is going to be far more violent the a mere 'vibration'.

It'd be on par with a Car Crash, for the first moment, then you'd be crushed to death in a few minutes if the impact didn't get you.


Fiction
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming Comic Book Neutronium, in that it has the same density as the real thing but can exist below the min value for it to be sustained realistically, you'd have to still figure out the mass of the block in question, and the range to the subject to derive a gravitational constant you could use, but in general, you'd be dealing with big numbers, with things assuming something like neutronium with a density of 4×1017​ kg/m3​, 1 meter cubed would be more then Mount Everest (at 6.0 × 1015​ kg), with Pluto itself weighing in at only 1.31 x 1022​ kg. You'd be dealing with small decimal points of G's for car to building sized chunks of the stuff.
 
So what are the chances of Paul being able to assimilate the Chaos Starros? He's been without some form of convenient attack or defense minions ever since he killed his fatties and he hardly uses the hell wraith either. Was it destroyed when he was killed or something?

Plus not only do they offer some form of magic but they could act as a form of mind control when Paul is to busy to brand a target or needs a bit of telekinesis to deal with certain opponents.
 
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-50#post-2524846
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-51#post-2531458
what happened between these two?
as near as I can tell the second link is the next one in the main story after the first link but there's a huge jump in story line that's leaving me confused
"Yes." I think back for a moment. "I think I also suggested that we could host her here."
Perhaps link should be made local?
"Top of the class that archer. " I take another bit out of subspace for Wallace.
*blinks* I forget why I quoted this one... most quotes I make are for a typo ... oh there it is an extra space before the closing quotation mark
I sit on a large lump of what was once a wall, my hands massaging my temples. Well… Attack's over. The surviving military officers from the Shiruta garrison are taking charge of the clean… Of the clean up. The wounded are being treated in makeshift field hospitals, but there aren't actually that many casualties. It's a little like a Dalek attack: their weapons are so deadly when used against baseline Humans that there are hardly any survivors. You either flat out die or you're fine.
casualties include fatalities and injuries both
Each of the four ethnic groups have an affinity for one element, and the skills and modes of thought required to use if define their culture.
to use it define
There's a series of flickers. "… y colleagues have expressed concern that our modifications have reduced their aggression in too great a degree. Our predictive models show that it is possible that their civilisation will remain introverted as a result. Self isolating. Having reviewed the data in depth I have recommended a continual monitoring…" The image changes to shoe the Burner. "…intelligence, unusual in its kind. I will attempt to initiate mental contact. Perhaps we will be able to complete the conversion peacefully when they see that we have their best interests at heart?"
to show the
"Making memories. It's not foolproof, but having definite memories of spending time here not discussing the overthrow of the existing social order makes it harder for anyone how might take issue with that to spot that they've been doing it."
anyone who might
"It's… Basically well though out. But as far as the ideal outcome goes, I'm worried about what happens if your arcane mana draining device doesn't do the job. I think you need-."
thought out
My construct armour is fully formed. A few cracks suddenly appear but like the Flash our assailants aren't able to hit at anything like F=MA.
I get what you're trying to say but everyone hit's at F=MA it's the basic formula for force it's just speedsters are capable of much higher A than most
I chuckle. "I don't need to. I don't think I could make this stuff up."
perhaps the link should go to the local copy?
"I'm not doing this for the money. Not only am I rich already, I don't get paid for this. Not one penny of the profit for this enterprise comes to me. I'm doing this in an attempt to kick start Human technological progress. To make sure that we have a tech-base fit for a twenty-first century space age civilisation. I don't want this to be a.. just-me thing." I bring my hands to my chest. "That defeats the object. I want lots of people to try and do the sorts of thing that I am. Human scientists with the knowledge power companies need in order to keep up with me are out there. So, to my competitors… Go find them."
defeats the purpose?
"No, you're not. Without the ability to retain your situational awareness, your effectiveness in combat with be crippled. And this is just against a single opponent who's pulling his attacks; against a fleet that's actively trying to kill you, you will die unless you understand the self-discipline aspects of my training."
in combat will be?
**[I nod, getting to my feet. He shifts forward to the edge of his chair and gets his feet directly under him before rising. "I'll see you.. when I.. see you, I suppose."
this seems like it's missing a closing bracket?
 
Plutonian (part 18)
12th April
12:00 GMT


I'm.. seriously wondering if I should call Lantern Mother of Mercy in to deal with this, if only so I can stop worrying about it. I vaguely remember that Pluto actually was destroyed in the comics, and…

Not like I have any real attachment to the place.

"Should we..? Stop it?"

"Do you want to?"

"I am disquieted at the idea of a world being destroyed. Does this not matter to your people?"

"We don't even class this as a planet anymore." I frown thoughtfully. "Remind me to introduce you to a species that dismantles planets at some point."

"Why would they do that?"

"It makes it a lot easier to get at the useful materials. You remember you mentioned that some advanced species don't leave their homeworlds?" She nods. "For the really advanced ones, breaking up one of their home system's gas giants can provide them all the material they ever need. Even places like the Reach-"

Again I see a flicker of light. Something so simple as an awareness of its own existence.

"-use…"

Koriand'r directs an interrogative look my way. Knowing that she can't see my face through my helmet, I exhale with confusion and frustration.

"I got another glimmer of orange. I don't know why. My scans aren't showing anything special; certainly nothing intelligent. Something could be concealed with magic, but the Star Hunters all collapsed at the same time. If one of them was down there then it should have collapsed as well…"

"Could they be down there and unable to escape?"

"If we're lucky."

"I am… Surprised to hear you say that."

"These creatures provoked the Green Lantern Corps into taking the gloves off, and Earth made them even more dangerous. As psychic parasites, they can't see other species as anything other than a host waiting for a Star Conqueror to be put on their face. And maybe I could fiddle around with their desires and change that… But then again, I could have done that with the Citadelians. Or the psions. And I've thought about that a fair bit, and I'm still happy with the choice I made."

Okay. Still can't reliably see anything, but if that dense patch is an old spaceship or something… I generate a construct-.

"I am.. not."

"I suspected. Would you care to narrow it down?"

The shape is… Somewhat like a stereotypical diamond; a large flat block which tapers to a point beneath it. The build up of other materials around it is uneven… But its centre of mass appears to be roughly in the centre of the planet. It could be a generation ship, I suppose…

"The young Citadelian clones who had not completed the implantation process. You could have moved them from their world before you destroyed their cloning factories."

"Yes, I could. To what end?"

"They were children. That had not shared in the crimes of their elders."

"They were modified clones of the First. Every part of their conditioning and training was designed to make them-"

The mass is.. shifting slightly. Lighter material being pushed aside due to pressure or heat?

"-better killers. You yourself were held at the facility where they created the 'better' version; you know what they were trying to do, and how well they were succeeding. They were as instinctively sociopathic as they could be made. There have never been any Citadelians who rebelled against their intended purpose. Not. One. I could have mind controlled them; made them my thralls. I don't want thralls. Or Citadelian children."

"I… Want to be a person who tried."

I nod.

"When I was first training you and your sister, I thought to myself that if there were any justice in the universe I would be offering you a blue ring. Time permitting, I'd like you to try working with Alan's ring while you're here."

"Any… You did not want me to have an orange ring?"

"Most people can learn to use any power ring to at least some degree. Ideally, people would be matched to those they suit best. I'm a good match for orange, and so is your sister. You… Clearly you can use it… But I've never been entirely convinced that it's… You. And I want to give you the opportunity to be the most you you can be."

"Do you have more blue rings?"

"No. I had to talk Kalmin into making one, and Alan needed it to live, not merely to thrive. If it is a good fit, we can try talking him into making another one."

"Kalmin, the monstrous weapon-maker who kills entire worlds."

"If you know someone else, feel free to commission one from them instead. The only possibles I know of are the Guardians Ganthet and Sayd."

Something's happening with the top of the 'diamond', a large crater opening as material is pushed back by mechanisms I… Don't know. I'm increasingly thinking 'ship', because if that's some sort of launch…

Bay.

"Lantern Koriand'r, how resistant to telepathy are you?"

"I have performed mental strengthening exercises taught to me by the Warlords of Okaara. The Star Hunters did not trouble me."

I generate a construct of Pluto, with the denser mass as a more solid orange inside it.

"This is what's down there. And while I'm not sure what that is… If it were a Mother Star…"

I add definition and it fits… Horribly well.

"Orange Lantern Illustres to everyone, I think that Pluto is a Mother Star containment unit. Strongly suggest advising the Green Lantern Corps."

**I…**

A new eruption of rock and ice clears an area the size of India, hurling the material which previously covered it past the ClusterShip.

**Aaaaaaahhhh…**

A planet blinks at me.

**Awaken.**

The opposite side of Pluto bursts as its tentacles flex, cracks along the dwarf planet's surface becoming canyons of unfathomable depth before-. Its telekinesis is working again. It's lifting the covering off itself and throwing the discarded wrapping away as it works itself free.

**Hunger.**
 
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It's possible for OL to try and get some non Controller Maltusian to make him a Blue Ring.

There are probably some that know how to make Power Rings and have a grasp of the Blue Light, but just weren't all that interested in doing it.

As for Kalmin he could get the necessary hope he needs from Tamaran.

They've been freed from slavery and are rebuilding their civilization so they are probably still feeling very hopeful.
 
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Hopefully his faffing about has consequences, perhaps a few billion deaths, so he learns to get his head in the game.
 
OL feels very derpy in the last few updates. Isn't Star Conquerors emergence an all hands on deck situation? He's treating it way more laxly than the previous one when it's arguably more concerning. In particular, last time the scenario "little stars leave Earth and go to awaken big ones" was the worst case scenario that they kept in mind from the get go and tried to prevent more than anything else, yet here he's perfectly content to watch them excavate something ancient (!) that might be sufficiently alive to have desires (!) and waste time on idle chatter. I feel it's too dumb, unless we're dealing with another mental interference case like back with Mammon essence contamination, but more subtle.
 
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-50#post-2524846
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-51#post-2531458
what happened between these two?
as near as I can tell the second link is the next one in the main story after the first link but there's a huge jump in story line that's leaving me confused
Have you finished the episode? It becomes obvious, and then is directly explained.
Perhaps link should be made local?
*blinks* I forget why I quoted this one... most quotes I make are for a typo ... oh there it is an extra space before the closing quotation mark
casualties include fatalities and injuries both
to use it define
Thank you, corrected.
I'm sorry, I can't work out what you're correcting here.
anyone who might
thought out
Thank you, corrected.
I get what you're trying to say but everyone hit's at F=MA it's the basic formula for force it's just speedsters are capable of much higher A than most
No, because speedsters don't his at F=MA, or at least not apparent A.
perhaps the link should go to the local copy?
No, because that's where I starting 'making this up'.
defeats the purpose?
No, it's correct, but don't ask me to explain the difference in meaning.
Thank you, corrected.
this seems like it's missing a closing bracket?
No, it's a few lines down.
 
Hopefully his faffing about has consequences, perhaps a few billion deaths, so he learns to get his head in the game.

Wow, that went dark.

He hasn't been faffing around, he has been engaging in activities that he enjoys when he wasn't needed, bonding with his teammates through said activities etc.

It's also unlikely that a few billion deaths are going to make him reconsider abandoning all his other activities because he somehow considers those activities to be responsible for said deaths. While other superheroes have done such things in the comics OL isn't exactly one prone to becoming an emotional wreck that blames himself for every little thing, no matter how litte sense it makes to do so.

It would be kinda difficult to say that he is responsible for all those deaths when the Green Lanterns have themselves not scanned Pluto to see if there was anything there, the Guardian that came to Earth and had a road trip with Queen and Jordan can also be blamed for not doing any scanning of Sol and its planets.

Also the scans may not have worked as Star Conquerors have developed some resistance to Power Rings and can hide from them.

Their telepathy can also help them hide their desires from his eyes.

OL feels very derpy in the last few updates. Isn't Star Conquerors emergence an all hands on deck situation? He's treating it way more laxly than the previous one when it's arguably more concerning. In particular, last time the scenario "little stars leave Earth and go to awaken big ones" was the worst case scenario that they kept in mind from the get go and tried to prevent more than anything else, yet here he's perfectly content to watch them excavate something ancient (!) that might be sufficiently alive to have desires (!) and waste time on idle chatter. I feel it's too dumb, unless we're dealing with another mental interference case like back with Mammon essence contamination, but more subtle.

The thing with him being influenced is a possibility.

It would also be kinda a big jump to assume that there is a gigantic Star Conqueror hiding inside Pluto. He may summon several members of his own Corps and the Green Lantern Corps to help now that they know that there's a giant Star Conqueror there, but summoning them previously could have been overkill since they didn't know that there were Star Conquerors until several minutes ago and they didn't know there was a gigantic one until a minute ago, all they know was that there were some small Stars there that they could handle.
 
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Too slow, thanks to their distributed consciousness. The more elegant solution, in my mind, is for Paul to pull the same trick he pulled on the Martian customs officer.

He may find it more difficult to Assimilate this one, as Star Conquerors tend to have some resistance to Lantern Rings, but it is a possibility since this one probably doesn't have all that much, or any, knowledge or experience of dealing with Orange Rings.

That trick with the Martian may not work on something so powerful.
 
since they didn't know that there were Star Conquerors until several minutes ago
I still think you could argue that hitting the area with your biggest Cold Ray would've been a good just-in-case. The enemy were pumping energy into that part of Pluto, you can be pretty sure their objective is something you're not going to be happy with. Removing energy from there seems reasonable, and, you can do the forensics later.

BTW, I'm guessing Cold Rays use a dimensional trick - so, they work like the cooling system in a 'fridge, by pumping heat from one place to another (a really cold/empty other-dimensional space).
 
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12th April
12:00 GMT


I'm.. seriously wondering if I should call Lantern Mother of Mercy in to deal with this, if only so I can stop worrying about it. I vaguely remember that Pluto actually was destroyed in the comics, and…
Not so much destroyed as converted into a Warworld... Could be worse, DC 1,000,000 turned it into the Solar System's biggest prison, guarded by a Batman.

Not like I have any real attachment to the place.

"Should we..? Stop it?"
Methinks the question is more: "Can we stop it?"

"Do you want to?"

"I am disquieted at the idea of a world being destroyed. Does this not matter to your people?"
Eh, you should see how much Sci-fi features planets being rendered uninhabitable, much less destroyed outright. Never mind the ones that weaponised them. Three words: Lensman Arms Race.

"We don't even class this as a planet anymore." I frown thoughtfully. "Remind me to introduce you to a species that dismantles planets at some point."

"Why would they do that?"
Resources, usually. Or because it blocks a great view... Marvin...

"It makes it a lot easier to get at the useful materials. You remember you mentioned that some advanced species don't leave their homeworlds?" She nods. "For the really advanced ones, breaking up one of their home system's gas giants can provide them all the material they ever need. Even places like the Reach-"

Again I see a flicker of light. Something so simple as an awareness of its own existence.
Oh, boy... Big mama's waking up...

"-use…"

Koriand'r directs an interrogative look my way. Knowing that she can't see my face through my helmet, I exhale with confusion and frustration.

"I got another glimmer of orange. I don't know why. My scans aren't showing anything special; certainly nothing intelligent. Something could be concealed with magic, but the Star Hunters all collapsed at the same time. If one of them was down there then it should have collapsed as well…"
Scans can be fooled, OL. You should know that well by this point... Maybe you need to widen the area you're scanning.

"Could they be down there and unable to escape?"

"If we're lucky."

"I am… Surprised to hear you say that."
Star Conquerors are not nice, Kori. They are most definitely not nice.

"These creatures provoked the Green Lantern Corps into taking the gloves off, and Earth made them even more dangerous. As psychic parasites, they can't see other species as anything other than a host waiting for a Star Conqueror to be put on their face. And maybe I could fiddle around with their desires and change that… But then again, I could have done that with the Citadelians. Or the psions. And I've thought about that a fair bit, and I'm still happy with the choice I made."
But would the payoff be worth the effort involved? That's the calculus an Orange Lantern lives by, isn't it?

Okay. Still can't reliable see anything, but if that dense patch is an old spaceship or something… I generate a construct-.

"I am.. not."
Unsurprising, really. Her career as an Orange Lantern has not been entirely pleasant. Yes, her homeworld is free and rebuilding fast. Yes, she's done some good in Vega. But look at her failures, like the Psion homeworld...

"I suspected. Would you care to narrow it down?"

The shape is… Somewhat like a stereotypical diamond; a large flat block which tapers to a point beneath it. The build up of other materials around it is uneven… But its centre of mass appears to be roughly in the centre of the planet. It's could be a generation ship, I suppose…
For a given value of generation ship, I suppose... But not the kind you're thinking of...

"The young Citadelian clones who had not completed the implantation process. You could have moved them from their world before you destroyed their cloning factories."

"Yes, I could. To what end?"
Be honest, Kori, is this because they were descended from your goddess?

"They were children. That had not shared in the crimes of their elders."

"They were modified clones of the First. Every part of their conditioning and training was designed to make them-"
And I doubt the First's attitudes were entirely borne from his upbringing. Some people are just born bad...

The mass is.. shifting slightly. Lighter material being pushed aside due to pressure or heat?

"-better killers. You yourself were held at the facility where they created the 'better' version; you know what they were trying to do, and how well they were succeeding. They were as instinctively sociopathic as they could be made. There have never been any Citadelians who rebelled against their intended purpose. Not. One. I could have mind controlled them; made them my thralls. I don't want thralls. Or Citadelian children."
And that's before you get into the neural link to their forefather that they got rewarded with as they advanced...

"I… Want to be a person who tried."

I nod.
And that is why she's just not a good Orange Lantern. That sort of thing... For all that she feels she wants it, she doesn't want it enough.

"When I was first training you and your sister, I thought to myself that if there were any justice in the universe I would be offering you a blue ring. Time permitting, I'd like you to try working with Alan's ring while you're here."

"Any… You did not want me to have an orange ring?"
God no. To be blunt, Kori, you would be an amazing Blue Lantern.

"Most people can learn to use any power ring to at least some degree. Ideally, people would be matched to those they suit best. I'm a good match for orange, and so is your sister. You… Clearly you can use it… But I've never been entirely convinced that it's… You. And I want to give you the opportunity to be the most you you can be."

"Do you have more blue rings?"
That's just a matter of convincing Kalmin, or an unaligned Controller. No easy task, but it can be done.

"No. I had to talk Kalmin into making one, and Alan needed it to live, not merely to thrive. If it is a good fit, we can try talking him into making another one."

"Kalmin, the monstrous weapon-maker who kills entire worlds."
Well, if you're going to dwell on his talents...

"If you know someone else, feel free to commission one from them instead. The only possibles I know of are the Guardians Ganthet and Sayd."

Something's happening with the top of the 'diamond', a large crater opening as material is pushed back by mechanisms I… Don't know. I'm increasingly thinking 'ship', because if that's some sort of launch…
Think more organic, OL. Pluto just blinked.

Bay.

"Lantern Koriand'r, how resistant to telepathy are you?"
And he finally realises what's happening. Let's hope it's not too late.

"I have performed mental strengthening exercises taught to me by the Warlords of Okaara. The Star Hunters did not trouble me."

I generate a construct of Pluto, with the denser mass is a more solid orange inside it.
Star hunters are one thing. Their brains aren't much bigger than yours. This thing? At a minimum, it's brains are the size of England. That's why OL's having trouble seeing its emotions correctly. They're too big.

"This is what's down there. And while I'm not sure what that is… If it were a Mother Star…"

I add definition and it fits… Horribly well.
I can just feel that creeping horror he's likely starting to feel, and promptly dampening down.

"Orange Lantern Illustres to everyone, I think that Pluto is a Mother Star containment unit. Strongly suggest advising the Green Lantern Corps."
...Okay, panic is not likely to happen with his enlightened state. But seriously, he sounds like he's describing the weather. As soon as the Greenies hear about this, bricks will be shat. This is going to require Guardians.

**I…**

A new eruption of rock and ice clears an area the size of India, hurling the material which previously covered it past the ClusterShip.
:eek:Craaaaaaaaaap...

**Aaaaaaahhhh…**

A planet blinks at me.
And that is something most people would never think they would ever say in their life.

**Awaken.**

The opposite side of Pluto bursts as its tentacles flex, cracks along the dwarf planet's surface becoming canyons of unfathomable depth before-. It's telekinesis is working again. It's lifting the covering off itself and throwing the discarded wrapping away as it works itself free.

**Hunger.**
And there goes Pluto. Hopefully the bits coalesce back into spherical form eventually.

OL, this is not the time to be so calm, reserved or British. Three Orange Lanterns are not going to be able to handle this. Get the Controllers on the horn, call the Ophidian, call everybody and brace for a fight! o_O The only good thing about this is that it's so far from Earth and Mars...

Still can't reliable see anything...
Still can't reliably see anything...
It's could be a generation ship, I suppose…
It could be a generation ship, I suppose…
 
He really was just kind of... Sitting there. Letting whatever was going to happen happen. It's like he was watching an anime transformation sequence, just letting the bad guy get more powerful. Didn't Paul used to be more genre savvy than that?

In fairness to him this isn't exactly as simple as shooting the guy while he is transforming, it's a whole lot more complicated as he didn't know what was happening. Just shooting Pluto when he didn't know what was happening could have caused more harm than good.

OL, this is not the time to be so calm, reserved or British. Three Orange Lanterns are not going to be able to handle this. Get the Controllers on the horn, call the Ophidian, call everybody and brace for a fight! o_O The only good thing about this is that it's so far from Earth and Mars...

He did say to call the GLC, the guys that dealt with these things previously.

"Orange Lantern Illustres to everyone, I think that Pluto is a Mother Star containment unit. Strongly suggest advising the Green Lantern Corps."

Him panicking would also not really serve anyone.

Panic tends to be on the yellow side of the spectrum, so if he panics too much then he may not be able to use his ring to its maximum capabilities.
 

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