With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

The War in Heaven happened millions of years ago in the 40k universe, like during the time of the dinosaurs if I remember correctly.

The Emperor is just 48.000 years old., do no humanity isn't older than the Eldar.

They weren't even around back then.

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Ah, I guess I misremembered it. I just tied the shamens inability to reincarnate with the War in Heaven.

 

[Ardy]

I realised something a few days ago. Given that the Old Ones created the eldar to fight in the War in Heaven, and that the Emperor was created at roughly the same time... Doesn't that mean that the human species is older than the elder?

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The Eldar were created either during or pre war in Heaven, but definitely became the OP BS they were during the war in heaven. The war in heaven ended 60 million years ago because that's how long the necrons have been asleep. Which is significantly older then the 50,000 year old Emperor.

edit: ninja'd

 

[Pinklestia]

'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

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So... exiled Eldar then?

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I'm curious and this HBO green lantern show. I kinda question is a tv series has the budget to do Larnerns justice.

I heard it's focusing on Guy, Alan, and an OC.

 

[DrThoth]

Exodites? Or do you mean Eldrad the Farseer?

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So... exiled Eldar then?

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My knowledge of 40K isn't extensive, but I was thinking Eldrad, yes. I get the impression that Exodites would be too insular to want anything to do with him or any xeno race.

Some Harlequins might also be interested in him since he's a new piece on the board, metaphorically speaking. In practical terms, there might be a Corsair fleet he can create a temporarily mutually beneficial relationship with or something. Yvraine is willing to work with humans against Chaos, though I don't think the timeline works out for her to be involved (though she was also a Corsair for a time, so that could be fun).

I suppose I'd like a narrative parallel with Paul's Fantasy iteration, though I don't have much interest in seeing the exact same thing as a psychically reconstructed femme fatale love interest.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I heard it's focusing on Guy, Alan, and an OC.

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Yeah, but it's Nu52 Alan, so I don't care.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Yeah, but it's Nu52 Alan, so I don't care.

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I had my reasons for wanting to like that version of Alan, and Sam was cute AF, and I liked his ring being his wedding ring....but then they squandered everything. What they didn't squander, the straight up ruined.

 

[Vaermina]

My knowledge of 40K isn't extensive, but I was thinking Eldrad, yes. I get the impression that Exodites would be too insular to want anything to do with him or any xeno race.

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Eldrad would kill Paul.

Always remember, Eldrad can read the timelines, so he knows Paul is in the process of going insane and being corrupted by Chaos.

 

[Doccer]

I'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

The next segments are called 'Gothamghast', probably alluding to the Gormenghast series? (which I haven't read, so I'm hoping it's more symbolic than anything).

I look forward to seeing how the world changes or doesn't change post-Sheeda; it does make me hope a second confrontation with Boss Smiley is in the works; the Light really haven't done anything for a while (which makes sense given Paragon's around and half their initial line-up has been eradicated, but still).

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Hiw do you know what the next segments are called ahead of time?

 

[Darko]

Hiw do you know what the next segments are called ahead of time?

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On the first page Zoat adds spoiler tags with the number and names of the episodes, and adds links in those tags for the chapters.

The next episode is on a new spoiler tag, and the first two chapters have been given names.

 

[Doccer]

On the first page Zoat adds spoiler tags with the number and names of the episodes, and adds links in those tags for the chapters.

The next episode is on a new spoiler tag, and the first two chapters have been given names.

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Ok thanks. I thought those were just for the done chapters.

 

[Coda]

he wants retire from villainy

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wants to retire

Then Horus drop's his shields and the Emperor knows that he has to go after him personally.

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drops

Also . . . It's vivisection. There's no such thing as a live dissection.

If it's dead you dissect it. If it's still alive you vivisect it.

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I keep hearing people bring this up like some point of pedantry, but... it's not true. While it's true that dissecting something that isn't alive isn't a vivisection, the converse isn't necessarily true. "dis-" "-sect" just means "cut apart," and a vivisection is a dissection performed upon a live specimen.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Over Reaching

May 7th 2012, 09:41 GMT -5

"Hey, Arte! You skipping school too, huh?"

The human-. Running… Guy. Flash something. Flash Kid? God, this is annoying-.

He's looking at me. He's expecting me to answer and I… Probably know him?

"My school's still closed."

I walk past him, still looking around. It's like visiting someplace I used to know really well but haven't seen in-. It's exactly like that, because that's what I'm doing. Not that anyone looking at me would know that. Dad taught me how to hide emotion, but the Sheeda taught me how to make it instinctual.

Is it messed up that I remember exactly what Dad looks like but whenever I look at Mom I keep trying to work out why this strange woman is talking to me?

"Did you get taller?"

He's following me. Is that-? I… Kinda remember him… Being.. annoying? But I don't remember if he was trying to start something or just had bad people skills.

"And buffer? And what's with your hair?"

"Sheeda hair care products."

"Ah." He stops walking as I carry on through the cave. Some of this is coming back to- "Are you okay?" -me.

I stop and.. take a quick glance at him, trying to read his body language. Were we close, before? How much is it useful to share-? No, that's… Sheeda-thinking. He's just being friendly.

"I'm.. a new normal."

"Normal… Good-normal?"

I turn to face him, folding my arms across my chest.

"We were in the future for a long time. I've changed."

"Are we talking… Like, a few weeks?" … "Months?"

"More like decades. Maybe longer." He blinks, his eyes widening. "We didn't have a good way to measure time. But I'm pretty sure I've spent more of my life in the Land of Summer's End than I have in the-." Don't use the Sheeda term. "In now."

"Oh. Ah… How are you… Y'know, handling being back?"

"Fine." I turn away. I think the kitchen was that way. "If you give me an hour or two I might even remember your name."

"Really? Whaw." This w-. "Always figured I was more memorable than that."

"What do you remember from a hundred years ago?"

"That's more than eighty years before I was born, so not all that much. But, seriously, are you okay?"

"Not yet. Grayven says I should try to ease back into my.. old life."

I wait for the door's bio-.

I push the definitely-not-alive door open and walk into the kitchen-diner.

Can't even get the doors.

No one else is here, but Flash Kid is still following me. Only now he's pulled his mask off his face. I take a close look at his face, and I spot the moment he realises that it isn't helping and I still don't recognise him.

"Oh."

I try smiling, but I'm not really in the mood and I don't think it comes across quite right. He's not looking at me, and that's fine b-.

Because with Sheeda that's a sign of respect. If he were Sheeda, he'd be treating me a little more like his supreme overlady. And that feels normal. But it's not normal because we were probably friends, and with humans looking away… Means you find something awkward?

I pull open one of the drawers. Egg cups, vegetable peelers and pastry cutters. Did I ever open this drawer when I used to work here? I think I remember cooking, but… I think that was at… 'Home'. It's kinda weird that none of the appliances are alive, but I always found it kinda weird when they were, too. Sure didn't do a lot of cooking in the Land of Summer's End.

"So, are you..? Staying on the team?"

Am I? I thought it was the thing to do. The only alternative would have been staying in the future. I mean, this… Was my life. Or-.

"It's that or conquer the world with Grayven again."

'cause at least I can remember Grayven's name. But there's no… Big purpose. Back in the future we were trying to fix the planet. I don't think conquering the world now would fix anything. And it's not like I liked being in charge. I just liked it better than any of them being in charge.

"Ye-ah… Don't do that?" He frowns. "Like, the whole world whole world?"

"I conquered half of it. He conquered the other half." Ttch. "We didn't realise that the we were in control of both major alliances until we were actually facing each other down in one of my fortresses."

"Bet… That was awkward?"

"I was just happy he wasn't dead."

The fridge I think I remember. Or at least I remember fridges in general. But the noise from the compressor is putting me on edge. Sheeda coolers don't sound like that.

"Guess you two got pretty close then."

"Pretty close."

I wonder if Mom would mind living in Challenger Mountain? Gotham-. It's not my home any more, and being away from Grayven just feels wrong. And I know he feels the same way. I got a room there yesterday-.

Huh.

"Do I have a room here?"

"Yeah, most of us do. I don't really know if you did anything with it. You.. don't remember?"

How can I even explain this? For him, this was all yesterday.

"You ever moved house?"

"Not since I was five, but, yeah?"

"You remember your old room?"

He screws up his face, pantomiming straining to remember.

"Kinda? A little?"

"Now imagine what you'd remember from ten times as far in the future. Or a hundred times, and you've been moving every year."

"Probably not much."

"Right." What now? I wanna do a tour of the place, and 'my' room is probably a good place to start. "Can you show me where it is?"

"Sure. This way."

He heads back out the door, and for a moment I frown at the door on the other side of the diner. I think there's a pool through there? Why would we have a pool? I shake my head and turn around to follow Flash Kid-.

"It's Wally."

"What is?"

"My name. It's Wally. Or Kid Flash, when we're on a mission."

I nod. Doesn't ring any bells, but at least I know who I'm talking to now.

"And… Ah… Have you..? Spoken to Tao yet?"

…

Oh. That's why people look away from things.

 

[Ardy]

This is really sad and I want more

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

Ooh, is the whole episode going to be from Artemis' perspective?

 

[Ngamer11]

Ooh, is the whole episode going to be from Artemis' perspective?

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Just the first two parts, with maybe one last near the end.

 

[DrThoth]

I think it's far too late to share my thoughts now, but I do feel my suspension of disbelief straining the more I actually think about this whole Renegade-Artemis situation, even though I do find it quite compelling as a storyline. Given New God's essentially infinite lifespan, I'd imagine they have some kind of better long-term memory than regular people; no other long-lived or immortal people throughout the story seem to have similar issues, in any case.
Did Artemis not try keeping a journal or memoir when she first realized she was forgetting things about Earth and her past life? I imagine the Vampire Sun does make that trickier, so was she just worried about the potential vulnerabilities/leaks of using whatever the Sheeda use for making records?
This update does solidify my opinion that she should break it off with Tao (I believe in a previous update she said she was trying to make things work). The gap in life experience and age is just too great for me to be comfortable with, at least for another decade or so on his part.

 

[Darko]

found it kinds weird when they were,

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'kind of'

Seriously hopes she gets some therapy after this, she really needs it.

 

[Old Knife]

I hate this. I have my interested in a hundred different directions and I can't pick just one.

 

[moralrelativity]

Woah, that was well written, got me in the feels. And perfectly reasonable way to feel in the circumstances.

always found it kinds weird

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kinds -> kinda

 

[Darko]

I think it's far too late to share my thoughts now, but I do feel my suspension of disbelief straining the more I actually think about this whole Renegade-Artemis situation, even though I do find it quite compelling as a storyline. Given New God's essentially infinite lifespan, I'd imagine they have some kind of better long-term memory than regular people; no other long-lived or immortal people throughout the story seem to have similar issues, in any case.
Did Artemis not try keeping a journal or memoir when she first realized she was forgetting things about Earth and her past life? I imagine the Vampire Sun does make that trickier, so was she just worried about the potential vulnerabilities/leaks of using whatever the Sheeda use for making records?
This update does solidify my opinion that she should break it off with Tao (I believe in a previous update she said she was trying to make things work). The gap in life experience and age is just too great for me to be comfortable with, at least for another decade or so on his part.

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Artemis and renegade are not ordinary New Gods.

Artemis was an ordinary human before being transformed into a New God, and renegade was a soulless human before getting a New God soul.

Even if regular New Gods have a great memory, they may not have gotten that.

Also most other immortals probably weren't separated from the people they knew for decades, centuries or even millenia, and the ones that were, like Calliope, well we haven't seen all that much of them so we don't know how they reacted once they got back.

Other immortals can also regularly interact with people they know, so they don't lose their memories of them.

 

[Vaermina]

Surprised she doesn't just ask one of the G-gnomes to fix her up.

 

[RichardWhereat]

He never surprises me.. In the next chapter, Paul is going to create an interlude, for, like, the third time ever., and I'll reference this post when he does.

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I knew it!

 

[Handlewithcare]

Angry, frustrated Artemis was not something I thought I needed but now I do.

I think it's far too late to share my thoughts now, but I do feel my suspension of disbelief straining the more I actually think about this whole Renegade-Artemis situation, even though I do find it quite compelling as a storyline. Given New God's essentially infinite lifespan, I'd imagine they have some kind of better long-term memory than regular people; no other long-lived or immortal people throughout the story seem to have similar issues, in any case..

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She is an uplifted New God, not a born one.

Did Artemis not try keeping a journal or memoir when she first realized she was forgetting things about Earth and her past life? I imagine the Vampire Sun does make that trickier, so was she just worried about the potential vulnerabilities/leaks of using whatever the Sheeda use for making records?.

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Most likely. She coukdn't trust anyone but Grayven after all.

This update does solidify my opinion that she should break it off with Tao (I believe in a previous update she said she was trying to make things work). The gap in life experience and age is just too great for me to be comfortable with, at least for another decade or so on his part.

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Agreed. One being a young adukt and one probably centuries older is icky.

 

[RichardWhereat]

At least Grayven has a ring to backup his memory. He should get one for Arte.

 

[Mr Zoat]

wants to retire
drops

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'kind of'

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Given New God's essentially infinite lifespan, I'd imagine they have some kind of better long-term memory than regular people; no other long-lived or immortal people throughout the story seem to have similar issues, in any case.

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The circumstances have a lot to do with that. Not long after suddenly being cut off from every part of her whole life aside from Grayven, she was cut off from him too. Nothing familiar and no way to mark the passing of days. The discontinuity is why she's forgotten.
Basically the Artemis they knew is long dead.

 

[Sorrow]

Surprised she doesn't just ask one of the G-gnomes to fix her up.

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yeah, because having someone rooting around in your HEAD is something you really want.

 

[Pinklestia]

I think it's far too late to share my thoughts now, but I do feel my suspension of disbelief straining the more I actually think about this whole Renegade-Artemis situation, even though I do find it quite compelling as a storyline. Given New God's essentially infinite lifespan, I'd imagine they have some kind of better long-term memory than regular people; no other long-lived or immortal people throughout the story seem to have similar issues, in any case.
Did Artemis not try keeping a journal or memoir when she first realized she was forgetting things about Earth and her past life? I imagine the Vampire Sun does make that trickier, so was she just worried about the potential vulnerabilities/leaks of using whatever the Sheeda use for making records?
This update does solidify my opinion that she should break it off with Tao (I believe in a previous update she said she was trying to make things work). The gap in life experience and age is just too great for me to be comfortable with, at least for another decade or so on his part.

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Artemis started as a human and became more and more New God with time. Remember that she lacks a MotherBox and or Fatherbox to help her remember things.

Her memory is probably better nowadays but most of her memories from life on Earth are of her life as human so... they probably are not as strong as memories formed as a New God.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Over Reaching

May 7th 2012, 09:41 GMT -5

"Hey, Arte! You skipping school too, huh?"

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Heh, nice way to differentiate R!Artemis' scenes from Grayven's without picking another colour. And this... Is probably going to be awkward, sad and a little funny all in one...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

The human-. Running… Guy. Flash something. Flash Kid? God, this is annoying-.

He's looking at me. He's expecting me to answer and I… Probably know him?

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Yeah, still having trouble dredging memories out of the time-abyss that her mind has become, eh?

"My school's still closed."

I walk past him, still looking around. It's like visiting someplace I used to know really well but haven't seen in-. It's exactly like that, because that's what I'm doing. Not that anyone looking at me would know that. Dad taught me how to hide emotion, but the Sheeda taught me how to make it instinctual.

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I know that feeling. It's the sort of feeling you get when you visit somewhere you haven't been in a long time, but you remember it well enough to get around, but not well enough to recall specifics... It's one of those things no-one has ever bothered to name, because It likely happens so rarely...

Is it messed up that I remember exactly what Dad looks like but whenever I look at Mom I keep trying to work out why this strange woman is talking to me?

"Did you get taller?"

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Given she was what, fifteen, sixteen, when they last met... Yes, I expect she has, a little bit. He's probably feeling a bit creeped out right now, looking at this person he feels he should know, yet there's something about her that's just... Off.

He's following me. Is that-? I… Kinda remember him… Being.. annoying? But I don't remember if he was trying to start something or just had bad people skills.

"And buffer? And what's with your hair?"

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True, Wally was a bit annoying... Selectively sceptical, habitually wisecracking, hyperactive... Honestly, Wally seems like that friend, the one who's a pain to know, but is kind of fun when you get used to them...

"Sheeda hair care products."

"Ah." He stops walking as I carry on through the cave. Some of this is coming back to- "Are you okay?" -me.

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And he can tell there's something wrong with her, can't he? Not just with his human senses, but with his God-senses, because he is an ascended New God himself. And that is giving an error of its own. I wonder what the League have put in the files about her, what her reports on the future trip were like...

I stop and.. take a quick glance at him, trying to read his body language. Were we close, before? How much is it useful to share-? No, that's… Sheeda-thinking. He's just being friendly.

"I'm.. a new normal."

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...That's one way to describe it, yes. The problem is, does she want it to stay that way? Can she bring herself to go back to what she once was?

"Normal… Good-normal?"

I turn to face him, folding my arms across my chest.

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She hasn't decided yet, after all. And havign him poking that raw wound is probably annoying and painful.

"We were in the future for a long time. I've changed."

"Are we talking… Like, a few weeks?" … "Months?"

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Remember, he's a teenager, and a speedster. Even days are a long time for him. The idea of months away from home, from his family? That must be unimaginable.

"More like decades. Maybe longer." He blinks, his eyes widening. "We didn't have a good way to measure time. But I'm pretty sure I've spent more of my life in the Land of Summer's End than I have in the-." Don't use the Sheeda term. "In now."

"Oh. Ah… How are you… Y'know, handling being back?"

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Not well, I believe. We know she feels off about everything... We know she'll end up visiting Grayven more often. What we don't know is the path she took to get there.

"Fine." I turn away. I think the kitchen was that way. "If you give me an hour or two I might even remember your name."

"Really? Whaw." This w-. "Always figured I was more memorable than that."

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<facepalm> Real subtle, Wally, real subtle. Never has your nickname been more appropriate.

"What do you remember from a hundred years ago?"

"That's more than eighty years before I was born, so not all that much. But, seriously, are you okay?"

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But at least he seems to be sincere. This is probably an odd experience for him, talking to a teenage girl (or someone who still resembles one) without any kind of romantic undertone, just two friends making sure they're okay.

"Not yet. Grayven says I should try to ease back into my.. old life."

I wait for the door's bio-.

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Still stuck in future-tech mode, eh?

I push the definitely-not-alive door open and walk into the kitchen-diner.

Can't even get the doors.

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Wonder how many she's walked into, expecting them to open before her?

No one else is here, but Flash Kid is still following me. Only now he's pulled his mask off his face. I take a close look at his face, and I spot the moment he realises that it isn't helping and I still don't recognise him.

"Oh."

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I try smiling, but I'm not really in the mood and I don't think it comes across quite right. He's not looking at me, and that's fine b-.

Because with Sheeda that's a sign of respect. If he were Sheeda, he'd be treating me a little more like his supreme overlady. And that feels normal. But it's not normal because we were probably friends, and with humans looking away… Means you find something awkward?

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Lots of social things to relearn, I see. Bet she's going to come across as somewhere on the Autistic spectrum to those not in the know, I bet. Hopefully it won't cause her any trouble down the line...

I pull open one of the drawers. Egg cups, vegetable peelers and pastry cutters. Did I ever open this drawer when I used to work here? I think I remember cooking, but… I think that was at… 'Home'. It's kinda weird that none of the appliances are alive, but I always found it kinds weird when they were, too. Sure didn't do a lot of cooking in the Land of Summer's End.

"So, are you..? Staying on the team?"

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That is the thousand-dollar question, isn't it? Can she feel comfortable on a team she doesn't remember, who feel like children to her. Can she operate by the Team's rules of engagement again, restrict herself to non-lethal techniques after centuries of killing?

Am I? I thought it was the thing to do. The only alternative would have been staying in the future. I mean, this… Was my life. Or-.

"It's that or conquer the world with Grayven again."

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And the painful thing is, she's not really joking, either. I foresee her ending up joining Grayven's group full-time eventually, simply because it feels more... Comfortable.

'cause at least I can remember Grayven's name. But there's no… Big purpose. Back in the future we were trying to fix the planet. I don't think conquering the world now would fix anything. And it's not like I liked being in charge. I just liked it better than any of them being in charge.

"Ye-ah… Don't do that?" He frowns. "Like, the whole world whole world?"

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Yes, the whole world, Wally. You think if the Sheeda weren't unified they could manage to do anything significant?

"I conquered half of it. He conquered the other half." Ttch. "We didn't realise that the we were in control of both major alliances until we were actually facing each other down in one of my fortresses."

"Bet… That was awkward?"

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Don't mention the Kiss... Don't mention the Kiss... You will never live it down if the Team finds out...

"I was just happy he wasn't dead."

The fridge I think I remember. Or at least I remember fridges in general. But the noise from the compressor is putting me on edge. Sheeda coolers don't sound like that.

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I expect it was more like a soft sort of circular breathing? Or just the soft hiss of cooling magic?

"Guess you two got pretty close then."

"Pretty close."

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Not in the way you're thinking, Wally. Grayven would never have played that card. After all, Artemis was a junior to him. Not a subject to be exploited, but a resource to be developed.

I wonder if Mom would mind living in Challenger Mountain? Gotham-. It's not my home any more, and being away from Grayven just feels wrong. And I know he feels the same way. I got a room there yesterday-.

Huh.

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So she hasn't been to see the ponies just yet?

"Do I have a room here?"

"Yeah, most of us do. I don't really know if you did anything with it. You.. don't remember?"

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Oh, boy...This is going to be.. depressing.

How can I even explain this? For him, this was all yesterday.

"You ever moved house?"

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A fair question. What do his parents do again? Would they have moved for work?

"Not since I was five, but, yeah?"

"You remember your old room?"

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To be fair, how many of us still remember much about our childhood bedrooms? I can't even remember the layouts of some of the rooms I've had over the years.

He screws up his face, pantomiming straining to remember.

"Kinda? A little?"

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Even less likely from the age of five. I mean, that may only be ten years ago for him, but...Again, what sort of memories do you have from then? That you don't remember thanks to photographs?

"Now imagine what you'd remember from ten times as far in the future. Or a hundred times, and you've been moving every year."

"Probably not much."

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I'd be impressed if she ever put any effort into her quarters at any point during her campaign. At least, beyond ensuring her weapons were in easy reach from any point in the room.

"Right." What now? I wanna do a tour of the place, and 'my' room is probably a good place to start. "Can you show me where it is?"

"Sure. This way."

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Heh, don't think we missed that strikethrough there, Artemis. There's still a part of her operating in tactical mode, in the 'ready for combat at a moment's notice' state she would have settled into over the years.

He heads back out the door, and for a moment I frown at the door on the other side of the diner. I think there's a pool through there? Why would we have a pool? I shake my head and turn around to follow Flash Kid-.

"It's Wally."

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How many names has she heard over the years? How many repeated themselves with different faces? By the end, we saw Grayven didn't really think of most Sheeda as anything other than their job anyway. Did she do the same, I wonder?

"What is?"

"My name. It's Wally. Or Kid Flash, when we're on a mission."

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She does remember the concept of secret identities, doesn't she? Imagine if on a mission, she forgot everyone's names and code-names, and just started calling them by some distinction about them: Speedy Guy; Sneaky Bird-Guy; Angry Muscles; Red Gooey One...

I nod. Doesn't ring any bells, but at least I know who I'm talking to now.

"And… Ah… Have you..? Spoken to Tao yet?"

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<sucks in breath through teeth> Ah... The mountain-sized elephant in the room... Her boyfriend... That as far as we've seen, she hasn't even though about once. At all. The whole time.

…

Oh. That's why people look away from things.

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Well, at least she's remembering something...

I was right... It was Awkward... It was Sad... It was, if you don't mind black humour, a little funny... The scary thing is how much this lines up with some real-world soldiers' experiences returning home after long deployments. No matter the era, there's always that period of discomfort. That strangeness of your old, soft bed. Of not having to keep an ear out for nearby fighting. Of the trouble relating to those who haven't been there beside you, and the comfort of being around those who were... And now I'm feeling depressed, despite never having felt that myself...

You outdid yourself with this plot thread, Mr Zoat...