With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Alexcorvin · Dec 25, 2020

Idkusername said:
After Emma, I'm no longer surprised by female self-righteous Red heads.

*Sees what you did there* *Giggled a little*

Darko · Dec 25, 2020

Stsword said:
Well discovered something.

It turns out that post flashpoint, Vril isn't an only child.

He has a sister, Techne, leader of the Coluan Resistance, which is oddly reminiscent of the Guardians of the Galaxy. It includes a foul mouthed bunny rabbit who owns a ship.

Hopefully this Vril doesn't go crazy like that version of himself.

Zig said:
Post flashpoint, aka New 52? The only good thing to come out of New 52 is Superman's cat.

And the Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Animal Man comics, just to name a few other good things.

Along with the friendship between Jon and Damien.

And let's not forget, Jarro!

Anyone who is tired of Jarro is tired of life.

Impartial Panic · Dec 25, 2020

RichardWhereat said:
And if not, I fully expect that Paul will be able to make one himself, with sex workers, and gambling facilities.

well martians are into role play

BlueMangoAdea said:
Ah, an interesting solution. If the local Red Martian government wouldn't grant White Martians equality, just move all the willing White Martians to a new planet so that they can make their own government. I wonder what the Hyperclan would think of that.

I imagine some would go for it as a fresh start and others would be enraged seeing it as exile from their rightful home.

Someguy Somewhere · Dec 25, 2020

Zig said:
Post flashpoint, aka New 52? The only good thing to come out of New 52 is Superman's cat.

Ow...right in the feels.

Zig · Dec 25, 2020

Darko said:
Hopefully this Vril doesn't go crazy like that version of himself.

And the Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Animal Man comics, just to name a few other good things.

Along with the friendship between Jon and Damien.

And let's not forget, Jarro!

Anyone who is tired of Jarro is tired of life.

Jarro can stay but he's on thin ice.

Darko · Dec 25, 2020

Zig said:
Jarro can stay but he's on thin ice.

Don't you ever say that about starfish Robin!

He's the best son Bruce has ever had!

Maxx Crowley · Dec 25, 2020

You know, every time we have a Martian arc, I'm always reminded that they have usually gone the way of Krypton, and every time we have a Martian arc...I'm reminded of why I like it that way.

Like, I don't know why, but every single time I'm just "Ugh...these fucking people again."

Always feels like OL is just wasting his time having anything to do with them.

Darko · Dec 25, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
Always feels like OL is just wasting his time having anything to do with them.

The same can be somewhat true for his dealings with humans.

And by helping the Martians he's helping M'gann, a close friend, and destroying a system which he views as being wrong, which he likes to do.

The Unaligned Player · Dec 25, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
Always feels like OL is just wasting his time having anything to do with them.

My experience with two Quests, and general cynicism with the world let's me say that improving the world is a largely thankless task, and is likely to be rendered pointless most sapient decisions, their numerous frustrations, and the corruption nature of their influence.

When one takes on the goal of improving anything that is what you accept when going to the business.

Mr Zoat · Dec 25, 2020

Darko said:
Along with the friendship between Jon and Damien.

[Don't worry Chris, I still remember you.]

The Unaligned Player said:
My experience with two Quests, and general cynicism with the world let's me say that improving the world is a largely thankless task, and is likely to be rendered pointless most sapient decisions, their numerous frustrations, and the corruption nature of their influence.

When one takes on the goal of improving anything that is what you accept when going to the business.

[Tangseid approves of this.]

Maxx Crowley · Dec 25, 2020

Darko said:
The same can be somewhat true for his dealings with humans.

I dunno...given that his dealings with humans has exposed him to magic, the single most powerful force in the universe with apparently no counter but more magic, and crumbler tech, which basically tells anything and everything that isn't magic to fuck off....I'd say he's gotten plenty.

Come to think of it, about 80% of everything OL does with his ring is "make a human shizo tech construct", or a gun to shoot out a human shizo tech bullet.

Darko said:
And by helping the Martians he's helping M'gann, a close friend, and destroying a system which he views as being wrong, which he likes to do.

I mean...I really don't like M'gann, especially canon M'gann. But it almost feels like he could do that without having to deal with the Martians. Like, every single time he does, I just find myself going "Ugh...he should just leave you people to rot."

They just feel like a people who spend more time either being difficult, or actively harming themselves than doing anything else.

The Unaligned Player said:
My experience with two Quests, and general cynicism with the world let's me say that improving the world is a largely thankless task, and is likely to be rendered pointless most sapient decisions, their numerous frustrations, and the corruption nature of their influence.

I almost feel like he doesn't even have to talk to them to do any of that, and that he could probably be helping a people who would be much more receptive and grateful.

Like, he had an actual planet spin their core back up and start refilling their water back up. Yet just about every time he deals with them, it feels like a frustrating waste. Like trying to help a gambling addict family member. You just know the money they begged for their "bills" is going right into a slot machine.

To be clear, I'm not saying that anything is wrong with the Martian arcs. But like...they just remind me of the Super Mario Sunshine race. Like.."Ugh....I HATE you people. Why are you like this?!"

The Unaligned Player · Dec 25, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
They just feel like a people who spend more time either being difficult, or actively harming themselves than doing anything else.

...

Nah, too easy even for me.

Mr Zoat said:
[Tangseid approves of this.]

His approval is met with my appreciation of his acknowledgment of sapient flaws, and my disapproval of his excessive Doom.

Darko · Dec 25, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
I dunno...given that his dealings with humans has exposed him to magic, the single most powerful force in the universe with apparently no counter but more magic, and crumbler tech, which basically tells anything and everything that isn't magic to fuck off....I'd say he's gotten plenty.

Come to think of it, about 80% of everything OL does with his ring is "make a human shizo tech construct", or a gun to shoot out a human shizo tech bullet.

I mean...I really don't like M'gann, especially canon M'gann. But it almost feels like he could do that without having to deal with the Martians. Like, every single time he does, I just find myself going "Ugh...he should just leave you people to rot."

They just feel like a people who spend more time either being difficult, or actively harming themselves than doing anything else.

I almost feel like he doesn't even have to talk to them to do any of that, and that he could probably be helping a people who would be much more receptive and grateful.

Like, he had an actual planet spin their core back up and start refilling their water back up. Yet just about every time he deals with them, it feels like a frustrating waste. Like trying to help a gambling addict family member. You just know the money they begged for their "bills" is going right into a slot machine.

To be clear, I'm not saying that anything is wrong with the Martian arcs. But like...they just remind me of the Super Mario Sunshine race. Like.."Ugh....I HATE you people. Why are you like this?!"

His dealings with Mars have now also given him access to an entire planet of telepaths, who will most likely be of great help for the war with the Reach and freeing the Coluans.

Also it can potentially help with his study of alien magics.

And humans also seem like they spend more of their time harming themselves and being difficult, yet Paul hasn't given up on them.

And its not really a waste to deal with them.

Yeah the bitch that showed up in the last chapter was a pain, but apparently other rulers are actually trying to change things for the better.

And Paul does like M'gann, and it would be difficult for him to destroy a backwards Martian system of government without dealing with Martians.

Maxx Crowley · Dec 25, 2020

Darko said:
His dealings with Mars have now also given him access to an entire planet of telepaths, who will most likely be of great help for the war with the Reach and freeing the Coluans.

Meh....I mean....Meh....I don't know why, but I just can't even care.

That's another thing. I dunno why, because its just me, but like...all this build up to the Reach, and I can't even look at them as worthy opponents. I don't know why. Maybe its because I never really read any books they were central in? I mean I read some Blue Beetle.

But its just like "Yeah, yeah...Reach, Reach, lets get back to the good stuff."

I have no idea why. It just feels like filler. It's really weird.

Darko said:
Also it can potentially help with his study of alien magics.

Blah...more Magic. God damn power rings over here, entire new corps, but look out! More magic!

I never thought there would be a time when I was actively bored of, and annoyed with, magic.

Darko said:
And humans also seem like they spend more of their time harming themselves and being difficult, yet Paul hasn't given up on them.

Okay, the human race has been a LOT more helpful in general, with humans, meta-humans and so on, actually doing shit.

You know...maybe that's it. It kinda feels like the Martians just sit around, doing nothing, until someone fixes their shit.

Or maybe its the fact that I lived through years of DC trying to Shill Martian Manhunter as more powerful than Superman, but that's bullshit, no one cares, and he's a jobber.

Darko said:
And its not really a waste to deal with them.

But it feels like it is.

Darko said:
Yeah the bitch that showed up in the last chapter was a pain, but apparently other rulers are actually trying to change things for the better.

I do hope we see more of them then.

Darko said:
it would be difficult for him to destroy a backwards Martian system of government without dealing with Martians.

We've got to try.

Gantradies · Dec 26, 2020

Vaermina said:
He's probably not going to find very many willing given the standard Martian psychology.

Depends- a group-en-masse movement would be a lot more palatable, but I agree that there'd be a lot of limitations on the method of displacement/emergration-
it WOULD need to be either near-instant and fast paced, or large groups to avoid the issues with psychic isolation trauma..

Flightless Man · Dec 26, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
Meh....I mean....Meh....I don't know why, but I just can't even care.

That's another thing. I dunno why, because its just me, but like...all this build up to the Reach, and I can't even look at them as worthy opponents. I don't know why. Maybe its because I never really read any books they were central in? I mean I read some Blue Beetle.

But its just like "Yeah, yeah...Reach, Reach, lets get back to the good stuff."

I have no idea why. It just feels like filler. It's really weird.

Blah...more Magic. God damn power rings over here, entire new corps, but look out! More magic!

I never thought there would be a time when I was actively bored of, and annoyed with, magic.

I get frustrated that Zoat doesn't finish an arc before changing perspectives. I also don't like long stretches in space. But i loved the Sheeda future arc which many seemed to dislike. I like Mars because i'm looking for ways Grayven and Artemis can become world rulers again, and this seems to be showing me a way they can.

I really don't like crime syndicate BL arcs, but i love the equestria stuff in spite of every other crossover to us MLP boring me to tears. I love seeing how when we comment on things heavily, a week or so later chapters begin reflecting things we have criticized or theorized on. I love How Zoats story has gone longer with no retcon/restart then DC has in like 30 years.

I think some of the story could be served better by coming as a side story. the side pauls we see for a few chapters only, for one thing i think should be in a side story. I think a short side story on the team would also be nice. This began as a YJ crossover but the YJ feels very under represented now(its really generic DC) and for years really. Which is fine but this kind of feels like Lord of the rings when first writen.

With this ring would need to be split into three stories (or six since each Lotr book is 2 parts) Lots of the issue with season 2/3 of YJ is not getting more of season one cast and we had false expectations for the seasons and were let down on only having a few character we were used to. It feels like we have the same issue here, this is season 3 now basically (only tangently related to first third of With this rings original cast.) We read years worth of the characters only for them to basically vanish and the plot to have shifted drastically away from the characters we cared for.

It feels that our expectations of the story have been removed by focusing on things we didn't know the story was about. I began reading this because i thought it was a SI lantern on the YJ team. I likely wouldn't have began reading if the summary reflected what the story has been about for a few years. Its still a very good story, but not what i signed up for which i feel conflicted over. I expected a team hero story and its been a space opera/politics story for like 2 years. Again a good story even with the changes, i am only trying to explain why i still love the story but get frustrated with it occasionally.

I feel if the last few years had been a sequel and not framed as still focusing on the old cast from YJ (cameos and team ups would still occur, but as welcome surprises. not as disappointments, for not occuring.) I love the overall story and am invested. but i do feel how its" wrapped and marketed" would fix alot of frustration from readers expectations.

for myself, i consider until he leaves for space, book one.
Book two is him forming his Corp.
Book three was the Return to Earth and ended roughly a month or so ago.
Book four began around when Sheeda ended/Reach war began
Its hard to be exact since Grayven and paul don't have a 1:1 exchange for events

Darko · Dec 26, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
Meh....I mean....Meh....I don't know why, but I just can't even care.

That's another thing. I dunno why, because its just me, but like...all this build up to the Reach, and I can't even look at them as worthy opponents. I don't know why. Maybe its because I never really read any books they were central in? I mean I read some Blue Beetle.

But its just like "Yeah, yeah...Reach, Reach, lets get back to the good stuff."

I have no idea why. It just feels like filler. It's really weird.

Blah...more Magic. God damn power rings over here, entire new corps, but look out! More magic!

I never thought there would be a time when I was actively bored of, and annoyed with, magic.

Okay, the human race has been a LOT more helpful in general, with humans, meta-humans and so on, actually doing shit.

You know...maybe that's it. It kinda feels like the Martians just sit around, doing nothing, until someone fixes their shit.

Or maybe its the fact that I lived through years of DC trying to Shill Martian Manhunter as more powerful than Superman, but that's bullshit, no one cares, and he's a jobber.

But it feels like it is.

I do hope we see more of them then.

We've got to try.

By improving their understanding of magic then they can greatly advance it.

Also not everyone can use power rings due to not possessing the right emotional state, but magic js still something that can be used.

The human race seems more helpful because the story spent more time around them, while as for the Martians, this is just the second episode involving them in the paragon side.

After the first episode in which Paul interacted with them they already began a massive social shift to become more egalitarian, while as for humans, well it seems they can take multiple episodes before they actually do things and just tend to let the likes of Paul solve their problems.

Vaermina · Dec 26, 2020

Maxx Crowley said:
Meh....I mean....Meh....I don't know why, but I just can't even care.

That's another thing. I dunno why, because its just me, but like...all this build up to the Reach, and I can't even look at them as worthy opponents. I don't know why. Maybe its because I never really read any books they were central in? I mean I read some Blue Beetle.

But its just like "Yeah, yeah...Reach, Reach, lets get back to the good stuff."

I have no idea why. It just feels like filler. It's really weird.

Blah...more Magic. God damn power rings over here, entire new corps, but look out! More magic!

I never thought there would be a time when I was actively bored of, and annoyed with, magic.

Okay, the human race has been a LOT more helpful in general, with humans, meta-humans and so on, actually doing shit.

You know...maybe that's it. It kinda feels like the Martians just sit around, doing nothing, until someone fixes their shit.

Or maybe its the fact that I lived through years of DC trying to Shill Martian Manhunter as more powerful than Superman, but that's bullshit, no one cares, and he's a jobber.

But it feels like it is.

I do hope we see more of them then.

We've got to try.

The problem with the Reach in this story is more a general problem with Zoat's writing.

For a bad guy to be a threat a writer needs to set things up so the reader or viewer believes there's the chance the good guys could loose, or at least suffer a phyric victory.

Problem is that just doesn't exist in this story because Paul never really looses. Or even suffers more then the most minor of setbacks.

Mr Zoat · Dec 26, 2020

20th August 2010
21:43 GMT

The old man frowns at me.

"'oo the fuck 're you supposed to be, orange Lantern?"

I land on the small patch of grass outside of his care home's dining room.

"Yes."

"Hah!" He smiles bitterly. "That shows me right up. Didn't know they came in different colours." He leans on the fence, hands dangling over the railing. "Fine, what'd'yah want?"

"Dennis Wilson. Formerly Vitaman."

The smiles fades a little, then he shrugs. "Maybe I am. What's it to you?"

"We've got a chemist in common."

"Not bleedin' likely. Everyone who worked on that's dead as a door nail."

"But they kept records. Which I acquired."

He blinks, his face relaxing in surprise. "Fuck me. Really? What the hell d'you do that for?"

"It was an augmentation formula with no adverse side effects. It seemed like a good idea."

"Well, yeah, they were tryin' t' make a bunch of remorseless psycho bastards, weren't they? So it's hardly a downside if that's exactly what they got." He huffs with amusement. "You had a fancy magic ring anyway, but you had to go out of your way to fuck yourself over."

"Is it a simple on/off thing? Does the psychosis progress?" He bows his head. "Do you have any leads on anyone with a little more technical knowledge-?"

"I haven't talked t' anyone on the boffin side of things since the War. You've got a better chance of finding any of 'em than I would. If any of 'em are still alive, which would be bleedin' surprisin'." He pulls a packet of cigarettes out of his back pocket and extracts a single cigarette. "You got a light?"

Anything untoward in that cigarette? Aside from the usual?

Looks fine to me.

"What, you don't like fags? Just like the fuckin' nurses 'ere. Not like I've got all that long anyway; the stuff doesn't keep you alive, it just lets you fake it better."

"No, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a cyanide cigarette or something."

"My 'dyin' for king an' country' days are long behind me."

A crack of orange lightning strikes the end, which begins to smoulder.

"Ta." He raises it to his lips and inhales deeply, looking up at the sky as he does so. After a moment he exhales, returning his gaze to me. "Well?"

"Did you notice any change in your behaviour-?"

He frowns. "What?"

"Before and after. This ring can monitor my behaviour and draw attention to the anomalies, but I want to know if you learned to notice when you were acting out of character."

He sneers.

"Fuckin' cunt."

"Excuse me?"

"You're a fuckin' cunt, you fuckin' cunt, that's what you are."

I tilt my head slightly. Why would he..?

"I'll.. add 'possible Tourette' to the list of symptoms. If you don't have anything useful to say, I'll leave you to carry on dying in-" He flicks his cigarette directly at my eyes "-peace."

I let it bounce off my environmental shield.

"Are you trying to provoke me? Because it won't work. If I kill you, I can't get any more information out of you."

Warning! Deviation from baseline thought processes detected!

Yes, I spotted that one myself. An old man, whose only enhancement is something I added as an extra. He's not bulletproof, and the worst that can be said about him is that he's been involved in some 'shady' business. No murder sprees, no particularly grotesque behaviour -and he would certainly have had the opportunity for it- and he's in failing health. But I'm not even looking at his desires and it's…

The ant comparison is overused. But that's something like what I'm feeling. If I was in a room with a buzzing fly I might squash it or I might shoo it out, but I wouldn't care what the fly thought. Since he isn't actually a threat, I don't feel any need to kill him… But I don't feel particularly reassured about the fact that if he's anything to go by I don't have to worry about suddenly deciding to eat my team mates.

Of course I… Wouldn't worry…

"Nah. See, this is what I mean. You decided not to kill me. Probably don't think it's worth the aggravation. I can say what I want an' you won't care, 'cause it's a hassle. I can drop dead right now, and the only reason you'd do anything is 'cause there'd be a hassle if someone spotted you'd been 'ere."

"If there was someone else to talk to, believe me, I'd be talking to them instead."

"Fine. What else d'ja want?"

"Did you find yourself becoming more violent after taking the substance?"

"Nah. Enjoyed it more, but I was always a thug. Only real difference… Was I started planning it. Planning how to get at people, bring 'em down. So what about you?"

"It's been less than a day, and other than coming on to a colleague I haven't really done anything."

"Was it Wonder Woman?"

"No. Why do you ask?"

"Met her a couple of times, back in the war. Tried it on, but she weren't interested. Try'na live vicariously. You a poof, then?"

"I'm trying to keep the conversation professional. You don't know me, and I don't think I'd like you better if I knew more about you."

He shakes his head. "I don't know what you think you dosed yourself with, but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't be taking lip from some dirty old tosser like me."

"I'll take that as a positive sign. Do you have a particular technique for knowing when something you want to do isn't smart?"

"Yeah, it's called not being a prat. The formula doesn't make you stupid. If you're too thick to watch yerself, that's your lookout." He pulls out another cigarette, watching me carefully. "'course… If you're that worried, I bet your magic ring could sort you out."

"Probably. But I'm not worried, am I? Adverse consequences are… Just a variable I have to account for." I shrug. "But if you don't have anything helpful to say, is there anyone else I can talk to? Anyone else who's been dosed?"

"Yeah. My little Sal. Sally Smart. Works in porn now. Got a few of her early flicks if you wanna take a butchers. She's a petty bitch, but I don't think she's gone totally off the rails neither."

"I'll pass. But thank you. You've been marginally helpful."

"Fuck off."

I head upwards, considering the issue. So I can only consider practical issues. Anything else I'll have to refer to the ring's best guess about my pre-modification state. That's not good, obviously. I've lost a capacity. I should be able to change myself back, see how I feel about things and dose myself again if I think it's worth it.

Except that I'm not the man I was yesterday.

"Ring, just curious. Are my constructs stronger now?"

"Yes. Without the distraction of moral concerns, they're a little stronger. Old you would have worried a little about hitting someone too hard, though."

Just have to be a little careful. And… Supervillain serial killers exist here, and while the prison system isn't quite as revolving door as the versions in the comics, there are still repeated incidents from the same offenders. Maybe a little less reticence on my part will be a good thing?

Idkusername · Dec 26, 2020

Is there any reason why his ring is so much more conversational?

moralrelativity · Dec 26, 2020

Idkusername said:
Is there any reason why his ring is so much more conversational?

To highlight to readers that this is a different OL.

AidanMorgan · Dec 26, 2020

Idkusername said:
Is there any reason why his ring is so much more conversational?

Because he wants it to be, I'd guess.

Z3r0Sama · Dec 26, 2020

Idkusername said:
Is there any reason why his ring is so much more conversational?

Probably made it a copy of his personality. As a certain character would say, "he reminds me of me and I love me".

Handlewithcare · Dec 26, 2020

Idkusername said:
Is there any reason why his ring is so much more conversational?

Because this OL feels the need for a conversational partner?

Also this coldness and the detachment are way creepier than any raving lunatic.

Hating smeone is personal and involved. Genuinely not caring about others somehow feels worse.

DrThoth · Dec 26, 2020

I'm wondering what the reasons for other changes in the setting are, like Cir-El. I got the impression this was just a variation of Earth-16Z otherwise.

Chojin Patriarch · Dec 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
20th August 2010
21:43 GMT

The old man frowns at me.

"'oo the fuck 're you supposed to be, orange Lantern?"

Ah... He's found the last person to use the 'Hyde serum'. And he sounds a right rotter.

I land on the small patch of grass outside of his care home's dining room.

"Yes."

Old, then. Unlike Sally Sonic, he's not immortal. One thing Tangseid here will have to worry about, though the Ring will fix that easily enough for him.

"Hah!" He smiles bitterly. "That show's me right up. Didn't know they came in different colours." He leans on the fence, hands dangling over the railing. "Fine, what'd'yah want?"

"Dennis Wilson. Formerly Vitaman."

And there we have it. One of those innocent-sounding 'patriotic heroes' of the old days. And the only surviving male user of the serum Tangseid's dosed himself with.

The smiles fades a little, then he shrugs. "Maybe I am. What's it to you?"

"We've got a chemist in common."

So innocuous sounding... So simple a thing, that it can lead to what we know it will...

"Not bleedin' likely. Everyone who worked on that's dead as a door nail."

"But they kept records. Which I acquired."

I wonder just how hard it really was to get those records... I wonder how many government servers he hacked, or old military paper archives he scanned to find it...

He blinks, his face relaxing in surprised. "Fuck me. Really? What the hell d'you do that for?"

"It was an augmentation formula with no adverse side effects. It seemed like a good idea."

Unfortunately, much like the MCU Super-soldier serum... There are downsides...

"Well, yeah, they were tryin' t' make a bunch of remorseless psycho bastards, weren't they? So it's hardly a downside if that's exactly what they got." He huffs with amusement. "You had a fancy magic ring anyway, but you had to go out of your way to fuck yourself over."

"Is it a simple on/off thing? Does the psychosis progress?" He bows his head. "Do you have any leads on anyone with a little more technical knowledge-?"

That was a long time ago, and the scientists involved were probably not young to start with...

"I haven't talked t' anyone on the boffin side of things since the War. You've got a better chance of finding any of 'em that I would. If any of 'em are still alive, which would be bleedin' surprisin'." He pulls a packet of cigarettes out of his back pocket and extracts a single cigarette. "You got a light?"

Yup. He might be the only person alive who knows what the serum actually was... And he didn't care about the making of it, did he? After all, it's a one-and-done thing, Tangseid wouldn't have used it otherwise.

Anything untoward in that cigarette? Aside from the usual?

Looks fine to me.

I wonder if that paranoia is a side-effect of the serum, or just a part of this Paul's nature... After all, he's been searching for a power-up longer than the Paragon did. I wonder, what would have made the original like that? We know the Renegade is the way he was because of a bad day at work before he got the ring...

"What, you don't like fags? Just like the fuckin' nurses 'ere. Not like I've got all that long anyway; the stuff doesn't keep you alive, it just lets you fake it better."

"No, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a cyanide cigarette or something."

Heh. You don't want to lose a valuable source of information, after all, no matter how little he knows. Already seeing people as tools...

"My 'dyin' for king an' country' days are long behind me."

A crack of orange lightning strikes the end, which begins to smoulder.

Obliging of him. After all, what better way to make the old man do what you want.

"Ta." He raises it to his lips and inhales deeply, looking up at the sky as he does so. After a moment he exhales, returning his gaze to me. "Well?"

"Did you notice any change in your behaviour-?"

I doubt he can remember that far back, not for something that boring and simple. After all, he's got to be in his nineties, and improved vitality or not, he's balls old.

He frowns. "What?"

"Before and after. This ring can monitor my behaviour and draw attention to the anomalies, but I want to know if you learned to notice when you were acting out of character."

And Tangseid still hasn't decided whether to change back or not, I see. After all, if he can mitigate the negative effects of the serum the way he does the Ring's what does it matter?

He sneers.

"Fuckin' cunt."

Heh. Trying to piss him off, old man? I wonder why...

"Excuse me?"

"You're a fuckin' cunt, you fuckin' cunt, that's what you are."

I'd say he's unimaginative, but at that age, well...

I tilt my head slightly. Why would he..?

"I'll.. add 'possible Tourette' to the list of symptoms. If you don't have anything useful to say, I'll leave you to carry on dying in-" He flicks his cigarette directly at my eyes "-peace."

Oh, he is definitely trying to piss Tangseid off. Looking for one last fight before you go out, Mister Wilson?

I let it bounce off my environmental shield.

"Are you trying to provoke me? Because it won't work. If I kill you, I can't get any more information out of you."

And isn't that a difference to regular OL? I'm definitely leaning towards him being low on compassion... Wonder if he's also suffering a lack of Hope and Love, as Sally Sonic was?

Warning! Deviation from baseline thought processes detected!

Yes, I spotted that one myself. An old man, whose only enhancement is something I added as an extra. He's not bullet proof, and the worst that can be said about him is that he's been involved in some 'shady' business. No murder sprees, no particularly grotesque behaviour -and he would certainly have had the opportunity for it- and he's in failing health. But I'm not even looking at his desires and it's…

So, honestly, if you took care, watched yourself for 'evil' desires... You could negate the downside well enough...

The ant comparison is overused. But that's something like what I'm feeling. If I was in a room with a buzzing fly I might squash it or I might shoo it out, but I wouldn't care what the fly thought. Since he isn't actually a threat, I don't feel any need to kill him… But I don't feel particularly reassured about the fact that if he's anything to go by I don't have to worry about suddenly deciding to eat my team mates.

Of course I… Wouldn't worry…

The hard part is realising that the desires you're feeling are what you would have considered wrong, isn't it? I shudder to imagine what this OL's merger with the Ophidian would be like...

"Nah. See, this is what I mean. You decided not to kill me. Probably don't think it's worth the aggravation. I can say what I want an' you won't care, 'cause it's a hassle. I can drop dead right now, and the only reason you'd do anything is 'cause there'd be a hassle if someone spotted you'd been 'ere."

"If there was someone else to talk to, believe me, I'd be talking to them instead."

Ah, the old man's got a point. The only real concern Tangseid has now is punishment. No thoughts of what those he care for would think, only how he'd be punished...

"Fine. What else d'ja want?"

"Did you find yourself becoming more violent after taking the substance?"

"Nah. Enjoyed it more, but I was always a thug. Only real difference… Was I started planning it. Planning how to get at people, bring 'em down. So what about you?"

I bet Tangseid's already got plans running through his head to improve the world, regardless of cost. All those plans he would have previously discarded due to the risks involved...

"It's been less than a day, and other than coming on to a colleague I haven't really done anything."

"Was it Wonder Woman?"

Ha! I wonder how she would have responded... Especially since she thinks of him as a teenager...

"No. Why do you ask?"

"Met her a couple of times, back in the war. Tried it on, but she weren't interested. Try'na live vicariously. You a poof, then?"

Ah, such binary thinking... How old-fashioned of him. And showing just how morally empty he is...

"I'm trying to keep the conversation professional. You don't know me, and I don't think I'd like you better if I knew more about you."

He shakes his head. "I don't know what you think you dosed yourself with, but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't be taking lip from some dirty old tosser like me."

Yes, well, as you said, you were a thug. Whatever else the serum did to you, it magnified that thuggishness...

"I'll take that as a positive sign. Do you have a particular technique for knowing when something you want to do isn't smart?"

"Yeah, it's called not being a prat. The formula doesn't make you stupid. If you're too thick to watch yerself, that's your lookout." He pulls out another cigarette, watching me carefully. "'course… If you're that worried, I bet your magic ring could sort you out."

The hard part is wanting to be sorted out... And Tangseid seems to like the way he feels now... Likes it enough to not feel like changing back yet.

"Probably. But I'm not worried, am I? Adverse consequences are… Just a variable I have to account for." I shrug. "But if you don't have anything helpful to say, is there anyone else I can talk to? Anyone else who's been dosed?"

"Yeah. My little Sal. Sally Smart. Works in porn now. Got a few of her early flicks if you wanna take a butchers. She's a petty bitch, but I don't think she's gone totally off the rails neither."

If anyone's wondering, we have seen her before, back in the Martian Womanhunter episode. The Paragon identified that besides the eternal youth thing she suffered from, she'd had all the lights of Hope, Compassion and Love burnt out. Guess now we know what did it.

"I'll pass. But thank you. You've been marginally helpful."

"Fuck off."

And fuck you too. Have a nice death.

I head upwards, considering the issue. So I can only consider practical issues. Anything else I'll have to refer to the ring's best guess about my pre-modification state. That's not good, obviously. I've lost a capacity. I should be able to change myself back, see how I feel about things and dose myself again if I think it's worth it.

Except that I'm not the man I was yesterday.

And with every moment you waste not changing back, you lose more and more desire to become that man again...

"Ring, just curious. Are my constructs stronger now?"

"Yes. Without the distraction of moral concerns, they're a little stronger. Old you would have worried a little about hitting someone too hard, though."

Now? Well, guys like the Joker will have to watch out, I guess...

Just have to be a little careful. And… Supervillain serial killers exist here, and while the prison system isn't quite as revolving door as the versions in the comics, there are still repeated incidents from the same offenders. Maybe a little less reticence on my part will be a good thing?

And the slippery slide begins. "Maybe it's not so bad if I kill the Joker?"

"Damn it, why won't they do what I want?"

"You know, if I tweak this desire... They'll be more helpful..."

"Huh, I accidentally conquered the world? Oh well."

Well... Every glimpse we get makes it look all the worse, as he descends. Every decision, every moment he goes 'This isn't so bad,' if one step further from the man he was. Amazing how one little thing can change so much.

You've got a better chance of finding any of 'em that I would.

You've got a better chance of finding any of 'em than I would.

An old man, whose only enhancement is something I added as an extra.

That seems extraneous, if he's thinking about the old man.

"It's been less than a day..."

Double Space.

Darko · Dec 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Do you have a particular technique for knowing when something you want to do isn't smart?"

Mr Zoat said:
"Yeah, it's called not being a prat

Sadly I don't think this version will be capable of using your method Dennis.

Mr Zoat said:
Adverse consequences are… Just a variable I have to account for.

Seeing what this serum does to humans is also something you should have accounted for, by searching for others who have used it, instead of just taking it after doing some animal tests.

Mr Zoat · Dec 26, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
You've got a better chance of finding any of 'em than I would.
Double Space.

Thank you, corrected.

That seems extraneous, if he's thinking about the old man.

No, which he added to himself as an extra.

Darko · Dec 26, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Old, then. Unlike Sally Sonic, he's not immortal. One thing Tangseid here will have to worry about, though the Ring will fix that easily enough for him.

Just when I thought he may just one day day, you decide to spoil my mood.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Unfortunately, much like the MCU Super-soldier serum... There are downsides...

And while getting your head turned into a red, skull like shape is not one of them, becoming a sociopath is.

Chojin Patriarch said:
That was a long time ago, and the scientists involved were probably not young to start with...

Ehh, scientists that develop special chemicals could have somehow extended their lives.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yup. He might be the only person alive who knows what the serum actually was... And he didn't care about the making of it, did he? After all, it's a one-and-done thing, Tangseid wouldn't have used it otherwise.

I think he may not have cared because he wasn't a scientist and just lacked interest.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I wonder if that paranoia is a side-effect of the serum, or just a part of this Paul's nature... After all, he's been searching for a power-up longer than the Paragon did. I wonder, what would have made the original like that? We know the Renegade is the way he was because of a bad day at work before he got the ring...

I think paragon was like that because he was worried he may be hurt by something in the new and madder universe he found himself in.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh. Trying to piss him off, old man? I wonder why...

I think this version of Paul just has that sort of expression that screams 'Punch me, I'm a bastard'.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'd say he's unimaginative, but at that age, well...

He may be more imaginative, but he just wants to insult some bastard that's bothering him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
So, honestly, if you took care, watched yourself for 'evil' desires... You could negate the downside well enough...

And we know this one is not going to do it.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The hard part is realising that the desires you're feeling are what you would have considered wrong, isn't it? I shudder to imagine what this OL's merger with the Ophidian would be like...

It may not end all that well for him.

When the renegade tried to merge with her in Earth 50 she compared him to Larfleeze and refused to. This is likely due to renegades controlling tendencies reminding her of the gnat.

And this Paul is much, much more controlling than renegade, so if the Ophidian doesn't like to be controlled, then he's out of luck.

Chojin Patriarch said:
All those plans he would have previously discarded due to the risks involved...

Or because they are morally wrong.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ha! I wonder how she would have responded... Especially since she thinks of him as a teenager...

First with exasperation, since this is probably not the first time a teenager has tried to flirt with her, but later on if she saw how he was acting, then genuine worry and suspicion start to creep in.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, such binary thinking... How old-fashioned of him. And showing just how morally empty he is...

He may be able to think in ways aside from such binary ways, but he just wanted to insult this Paul.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The hard part is wanting to be sorted out... And Tangseid seems to like the way he feels now... Likes it enough to not feel like changing back yet.

And we know he's not planning to change back anytime soon.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, well, as you said, you were a thug. Whatever else the serum did to you, it magnified that thuggishness...

The similarities between the green stuff and the SSS are increasing.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Amazing how one little thing can change so much.

More horrifying to be honest.

Stsword · Dec 26, 2020

DrThoth said:
I'm wondering what the reasons for other changes in the setting are, like Cir-El. I got the impression this was just a variation of Earth-16Z otherwise.

Before his origin was shown I thought Tangseid landed in a world inspired by the Justice League cartoon, not YJ.

And I'm particularly curious about Cir-El, because her comics origin is a little weird for YJ- A time traveling Brainiac 12 from the future nabs a street kid, grafts Superman's DNA onto her to give her powers, and brainwashes her into thinking she's Superman's daughter from the future in a plot to create a stable time loop that ensured Brainiac 12's creation to begin with.

Yet this would be before Brainiac even showed up on Earth in YJ, so it seems a tad early for that.

And oddly enough, Cir-El is a henshin hero, transforming from non superpowered Mia to kryptonian-esque Cir-El.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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