With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Handlewithcare]

Not Zoat, but:
Just upload yourself. Humans terminal values are black boxed from themselves to try to prevent reward hacking. You can't know what you want just by introspection. And if you got it, you would die. Don't want to die yet? Then you still haven't gotten something you wanted.

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What makes you assume we would want to die? Because there would be nothing left to strive for?

 

[Stsword]

I've seen Coluans come off even worse in the comics.

There's a Legion of Superheroes where it's revealed that Coluans consider practical science beneath them, and find Brainiac 5's insistence on actually doing something useful with his intelligence creepy and off putting.

I mean beyond just devotion to theoretical science but it actually seems they've crossed the threshold into pure mental masturbation just to prove how smart they are.

Can you imagine a Paul's response to that? "An entire planet of supergeniuses and not a single one of you can actually do something worthwhile with it because that would be crass?" A meaty thunk as Paul beats his head against the nearest wall.

 

[Grimnar]

I haven't really met President Jonathan Horne before.

Oh, we spoke very briefly at the ceremony marking the signing into law of the Sophoncy Recognition Act, but… I can't vote in American elections,

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They also had a small arguement during the whole Queen of Fairies thing, about where to imprison her.

 

[PDV]

They diverted more effort towards something that was a net drain on their economy, rather than put it into fighting."

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"Net" drain? Dispossessing the Jews/Romany/etc. and appropriating their belongings for the government certainly had some minor economic benefits, but that was pretty separable from the death camps. It's hard to see any economic upside, I think it's a pure drain rather than a net one. (Though I'll grant that a pure drain is technically also a net drain.)

Most people, if they have a reason to take the time to do it, can think about how to think

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Can, but won't. Edison's favorite aphorism applies.

 

[Cuchulin]

I've seen Coluans come off even worse in the comics.

There's a Legion of Superheroes where it's revealed that Coluans consider practical science beneath them, and find Brainiac 5's insistence on actually doing something useful with his intelligence creepy and off putting.

I mean beyond just devotion to theoretical science but it actually seems they've crossed the threshold into pure mental masturbation just to prove how smart they are.

Can you imagine a Paul's response to that? "An entire planet of supergeniuses and not a single one of you can actually do something worthwhile with it because that would be crass?" A meaty thunk as Paul beats his head against the nearest wall.

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An entire planet of Sheldon Cooper's? Now THAT is a nightmare!!

 

[quietwhile]

If Zoat put out a self help book I would buy it.

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Isn't this it, though? Jokes aside, this is an exploration on the subject of desire literally dressed as a super hero. It is one of the things that got me into reading it.

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

It's basically enlightened self-interest. For examples in fiction, look here.

The other half is realising that we as individuals are hilariously bad at self-reflection, but that's something an Orange Lantern must always strive to better themselves in, since their power relies on their desires and they can best use their rings when they are aware of what informs their desires and how their desires inform them.

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I was surprised this trope wasn't already on the page. So I added it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

8th July 2012
22:37 GMT

"Hello?"

Okay, so far I don't like how places away from Earth handle reception. The lobby of a major political party should have at least three people available to handle drop-ins during the working day, whereas here they have precisely none. Sure, I can still see where everyone is as this is a thaumically dead world and no one has any shielding, and Lantern Gozzi could find them with a ring scan, but where would they be if a local journalist turned up?

I've a good mind to have a word with their manager.

"Hello!?"

Lantern Gozzi's eyes flash orange.

"I think they may have misunderstood your intent."

That is quite a lot of yellow.

"If I go after them, do you think they'll be amenable to reason, or just panic more?"

She gives me a slightly puzzled look.

"Rings can load huge amounts of data to your brain if you want them to. I can do it, but as a Coluan you're much better able to cope with it than me. And as you have better social skills than Clarissi Dox…"

Her eyes are already flickering, so I wait for a decision.

"Raids on political groups are unusual, though not unheard of." She blinks, her eyes clearing. "I surmise that they're mostly concerned because we're aliens."

"That's simple enough to fix, then."

A wave of orange washes over my body, changing my outward appearance to match the locals. Horns are… Weird.

"They're almost certainly watching the internal feeds. They'll know that you're pretending."

"Instincts are not rational things. If they see a familiar face, then hopefully it won't matter what they know."

I walk over to the front desk and… There it is, activate the internal communications.

"Hello there! I understand that certain parties in residence here are concerned about your world's involvement in the war with the Reach, and I've come here to discuss those concerns with you to see if I can allay them. If you're not interested in having that conversation with me, then I'm perfectly happy to leave. You just need to tell me that's what you-"

"Ah."

"-want." I move away from the microphone. "What?"

"Political violence is unusual. However, the custom appears to be that meetings like this should take place at a neutral location. Going directly to someone's home or place of work appears to be a local taboo."

"'Don't drop litter' taboo, or 'don't shit in the street' taboo?"

"That's rather difficult to calibrate."

I turn the microphone back on.

"It's just been pointed out to me that coming here directly may have been in violation of local custom. I apologise. I was not aware of that. On my world, walking into the offices of a political opponent would be perfectly fine. If you'd rather have a discussion somewhere else, just let me know where and I'll go there at once. That… Will of course have to involve you actually communicating with me."

I look through the walls at the crowds heading for the evacuation points. There appears to be a good deal less yellow, though most of them are still leaving. Darn it. Note to self: always phone ahead.

And… Yeah, yeah, they appear to have designated the ritual sacrifice. With the danger of critical mission failure now abated I stop looking quite so closely. I don't think 'I can see into your soul' is something I want people who are already scared of me to know. Not right off the bat, anyway.

"Um, hello?"

"Hello. I'm still in the lobby. Have you picked an address?"

"I'll-. Ah. I'll come to you."

"I'll be waiting."

I turn off the microphone.

"Highest ranker on site, or most expendable office junior, do you think?"

"The local custom is to use junior managers for forlorn hopes. They get promoted if they survive."

"This is a forlorn hope? I just.. walked into a building. I didn't even break through any sort of security."

"I didn't claim that local custom made any sense."

"Good, because it doesn't-."

A local man wearing a shirt and sleeveless jumper nervously walks out of a corridor, raising two hands in what my rings tell me is a local deferential greeting.

"If you don't want people to walk in, just put a sign on the door."

"I'll.. pass that on."

"Thank you."

I walk towards him. Ring, local formal greeting is..? Stand just in front and touch your own horns..? Why-? Because you're demonstrating that you're not about to try and gore them, okay, that actually makes sense. So I do that and wait-. He just taps his points, which I suppose is probably the more 'street' way of doing it. Fine. I let go of mine, and he appears to have relaxed a little.

"So do you want to do this here..?"

"Since… You're here, we may as well. I didn't think that the br-. Ahh… The aliens had recruited any of us yet."

"We're recruiting from all over. Are you interested in a power ring yourself?"

"N… No. No, I'm not."

"Alright. So… What actually is dynamistic functionalism?"

He looks at me sceptically. "That's what you want to know?"

"If I don't know what you think you believe, how can I possibly attempt to find common ground?"

"Oh. You're not from home-. Ah, this planet, are you?"

"No, I'm not."

"Right." He grins, and slaps his cheeks. "Of course. you wouldn't-. Spacer, or an alien planet?"

"Another planet."

"Right, I didn't mean like-. Ah, I've just.. never had anyone directly ask me what dynamistic functionalism is, you know?"

"No I very literally don't."

"No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts about four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

 

[Idkusername]

That junior manager is my spirit animal.

 

[Darko]

but where would they be if a local journalist turned up?

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Assuming they have journalism.

I've a good mind to have a word with their manager

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Carefull Paul, your inner Karen is showing.

data you're your brain

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'to your brain'

And as you have better social skills than Clarissi Dox…"

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Not that difficult to have.

No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts bout four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

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Welp, you asked for it, so enjoy it Paul.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

That junior manager is my spirit animal.

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I know, right?

I have the same reaction when someone asks me why the Spanish Empire fell or to explain the causes of WW1.

 

[FeepingCreature]

This sounds like the lead-in to a mid-first act musical number.

 

[moralrelativity]

Love "junior manager's" combination of awkwardness, enthusiasm and cluelessness.

 

[Idkusername]

This sounds like the lead-in to a mid-first act musical number.

Click to shrink...

 

[hance1986]

"Right, I didn't mean like-. Ah, I've just.. never had anyone directly ask me what dynamistic functionalism is, you know?"

"No I very literally don't."

"No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts bout four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

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Is this going to be one of those things where the organization and bureaucracy has been going on so long, the political party is the point and what dynamistic functionalism actually is as a practical concept to be used has lost all meaning?

Because I can see it. This organization is saying anti-Lantern things because being contrary grabs attention.

Beyond that, asking Paul how good he is at history, running through the historical cause and effects that gave rise to dynamistic functionalism, Paul will still be linking that to his own historical cultural framework and enough things don't match, he'll consider dynamistic functionalism another one of those silly ideas he has to smile and nod at so he can get his way.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Ah, so he isn't the most junior guy, just the one who gets on everyone's nerves.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

8th July 2012
22:37 GMT

"Hello?"

Okay, so far I don't like how places away from Earth handle reception. The lobby of a major political party should have at least three people available to handle drop-ins during the working day, whereas here they have precisely none. Sure, I can still see where everyone is as this is a thaumically dead world and no one has any shielding, and Lantern Gozzi could find them with a ring scan, but where would they be if a local journalist turned up?

Click to shrink...

I think it may be the glowing orange people, which they've probably heard will eat their soul or something. If they're a Reach front, who knows what the locals believe?

Spoiler: Commentarty spoilered for length

I've a good mind to have a word with their manager.

"Hello!?"

Click to shrink...

You haven't quite the the right haircut for that, OL.Also, you never know when that will mean you want to fight the manager in a duel... Don't laugh, who knows what the local culture is like?

Lantern Gozzi's eyes flash orange.

"I think they may have misunderstood your intent."

Click to shrink...

Ah... A social faux pas, eh? Did you bother reading up on local customs, OL, or are you just playing dumb so Gozzi can feel smart?

That is quite a lot of yellow.

"If I go after them, do you think they'll be amenable to reason, or just panic more?"

Click to shrink...

Very good idea to be sure, especially if they have an interesting reaction to extreme panic.. such as exploding, or going into a warp-frenzy.

She gives me a slightly puzzled look.

"Rings can load huge amounts of data you're your brain if you want them to. I can do it, but as a Coluan you're much better able to cope with it than me. And as you have better social skills than Clarissi Dox…"

Click to shrink...

So, gonna let her take the lead here? See how she handles things? It'd be a nice way to see how she resolves it.

Her eyes are already flickering, so I wait for a decision.

"Raids on political groups are unusual, though not unheard of." She blinks, her eyes clearing. "I surmise that they're mostly concerned because we're aliens."

Click to shrink...

So it's more 'oh no, the strange people from space are coming!' than 'cheese it, it's the cops!'

"That's simple enough to fix, then."

A wave of orange washes over my body, changing my outward appearance to match the locals. Horns are… Weird.

Click to shrink...

Hey, be glad they don't have other, more exotic physical traits. Like tails or tentacles. That'd take some getting used to.

"They're almost certainly watching the internal feeds. They'll know that you're pretending."

"Instincts are not rational things. If they see a familiar face, then hopefully it won't matter what they know."

Click to shrink...

As long as you're sure you've got all the details right. Don't want to spark their uncanny valley reaction.

I walk over to the front desk and… There it is, activate the internal communications.

"Hello there! I understand that certain parties in residence here are concerned about your world's involvement in the war with the Reach, and I've come here to discuss those concerns with you to see if I can allay them. If you're not interested in having that conversation with me, then I'm perfectly happy to leave. You just need to tell me that's what you-"

Click to shrink...

OL... You might still be breaking a social convention...

"Ah."

"-want." I move away from the microphone. "What?"

"Political violence is unusual. However, the custom appears to be that meetings like this should take place at a neutral location. Going directly to someone's home or place of work appears to be a local taboo."

Click to shrink...

See! Honestly, did you bother to read the files at all about this place?

"'Don't drop litter' taboo, or 'don't shit in the street' taboo?"

"That's rather difficult to calibrate."

Click to shrink...

I mean, that's a fair spread of reactions.

I turn the microphone back on.

"It's just been pointed out to me that coming here directly may have been in violation of local custom. I apologise. I was not aware of that. On my world, walking into the offices of a political opponent would be perfectly fine. If you'd rather have a discussion somewhere else, just let me know where and I'll go there at once. That… Will of course have to involve you actually communicating with me."

Click to shrink...

Which, as noted, they may not be able to for any number of reasons. What if they need to perform a ritual cleansing ceremony to atone for the taboo?

I look through the walls at the crowds heading for the evacuation points. There appears to be a good deal less yellow, though most of them are still leaving. Darn it. Note to self: always phone ahead.

And… Yeah, yeah, they appear to have designated the ritual sacrifice. With the danger of critical mission failure now abated I stop looking quite so closely. I don't think 'I can see into your soul' is something I want people who are already scared of me to know. Not right off the bat, anyway.

Click to shrink...

So, was Jan-Ken-Pon involved, or was it a mutual round of 'Not it!'? At any rate, pity the poor intern being sent out.

"Um, hello?"

"Hello. I'm still in the lobby. Have you picked an address?"

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At least OL is trying to be accommodating now he's had his error pointed out.

"I'll-. Ah. I'll come to you."

"I'll be waiting."

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Gee, that doesn't sound scary at all...

I turn off the microphone.

"Highest ranker on site, or most expendable office junior, do you think?"

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Dude, I would have sent the lowest intern. Less risk of losing someone important.

"The local custom is to use junior managers for forlorn hopes. They get promoted if they survive."

"This is a forlorn hope? I just.. walked into a building. I didn't even break through any sort of security."

Click to shrink...

You sound almost disappointed. Were you hoping to fight a scarab or something, try out some new methods for subverting them?

"I didn't claim that local custom made any sense."

"Good, because it doesn't-."

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Still, at least the prospects of advancement are good if they survive.

A local man wearing a shirt and sleeveless jumper nervously walks out of a corridor, raising two hands in what my rings tell me is a local deferential greeting.

"If you don't want people to walk in, just put a sign on the door."

Click to shrink...

Oh, god, the only way he could be more stereotypically a 'speccy nerd' is wearing coke-bottle glasses...

"I'll.. pass that on."

"Thank you."

Click to shrink...

Well, at least he's not at 'pants-wettingly terrified' anymore...

I walk towards him. Ring, local formal greeting is..? Stand just in front and touch your own horns..? Why-? Because you're demonstrating that you're not about to try and gore them, okay, that actually makes sense. So I do that and wait-. He just taps his points, which I suppose is probably the more 'street' way of doing it. Fine. I let go of mine, and he appears to have relaxed a little.

Click to shrink...

Much like our western 'shaking hands' evolved out of a gesture showing you had no weapon in hand...

"So do you want to do this here..?"

"Since… You're here, we may as well. I didn't think that the br-. Ahh… The aliens had recruited any of us yet."

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'Br-...' I wonder what he was about to say? 'Brutes'? 'Bright ones'? Ah well...

"We're recruiting from all over. Are you interested in a power ring yourself?"

"N… No. No, I'm not."

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Smart fellow. Got to wonder what he's heard...

"Alright. So… What actually is dynamistic functionalism?"

He looks at me sceptically. "That's what you want to know?"

Click to shrink...

I know, it's so anti-climactic. You're acting like you were expecting to get shot...

"If I don't know what you think you believe, how can I possibly attempt to find common ground?"

"Oh. You're not from home-. Ah, this planet, are you?"

Click to shrink...

Gee, is it that obvious? OL will have to work harder to stand out...

"No, I'm not."

"Right." He grins, and slaps his cheeks. "Of course. you wouldn't-. Spacer, or an alien planet?"

"Another planet."

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Well, nerves sorted out, I see. Now, for some nice rational discussion. And hopefully jolly cooperation!

"Right, I didn't mean like-. Ah, I've just.. never had anyone directly ask me what dynamistic functionalism is, you know?"

"No I very literally don't."

Click to shrink...

I'm guessing it's a very obvious thing to a local, but without cultural context, it's about as clear as any modern meme to someone not steeped in social networks...

"No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts bout four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

Click to shrink...

...Oh no... You set off the nerd-splaining reflex. Good job, OL, now you're about to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the subject...

Thankfully, we don't have to sit through the lecture. At least it doesn't sound like a Reach plot, judging by the amount of time he quotes. Unless they were playing a long, long game here... Still, perfect time for a cutaway!

 

[Cuchulin]

I have the same reaction when someone asks me why the Spanish Empire fell or to explain the causes of WW1.

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The best answer is "it's complicated".

 

[Darko]

I think it may be the glowing orange people, which they've probably heard will eat their soul or somethin

Click to shrink...

Technically true, from a certain point of view.

Like tails or tentacles

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Paul does have some experience with tentacles.

Remember when he met Jade.

See! Honestly, did you bother to read the files at all about this place?

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And he criticized the League for not reading reports.

Oh, god, the only way he could be more stereotypically a 'speccy nerd' is wearing coke-bottle glasses...

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As far as we know this guy could be what his people consider a jock.

Thankfully, we don't have to sit through the lecture.

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Now I'm betting the next chapter will be about this guy explaining it, and I blame you, you Murphy loving bastard.

 

[Mquz]

Judging by the name, dynamistic functionalism is a society that is always moving - there is always an election, or someone taking over a seat, while somehow remaining functional. Think of it as a society where everyone has a different position every few months, that is not necessarily a direct promotion. But they also have to remain functional, so every job is tied in a little to every other job. Think of it as a natural extension of a society where a political party has been overthrown every few months for centuries. Hence, it's dynamistic. Maybe due to brain uploads, everybody is capable of every job, except for personality. If you're functional, you're competent. Hence, functionalism. Maybe due to groupthink not being a thing for the species beyond a certain point. People aren't more likely to think a point is true just because they are told so. Somehow, they eventually learn to function under these conditions. Or at least that's my guess. They can't join the OLC because they're against being a part of any social structure with an unchanging power base.

Alternatively, dynamistic functionalism sounds like a government where if you believe you'd be better at a job than another person, you're encouraged to duel them for the job, possibly to the death. And if you do a better job than the previous guy, you get to keep the job and are declared innocent.

 

[PDV]

data you're your brain

Click to shrink...

 

[Laundromat2.0]

"No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts bout four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

Click to shrink...

I don't know why, but this made me laugh out loud. I just really felt it.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

"Rings can load huge amounts of data you're your brain if you want them to. I can do it, but as a Coluan you're much better able to cope with it than me. And as you have better social skills than Clarissi Dox…"

Click to shrink...

Need to be a different word. Into, probably.

 

[theaceoffire]

"No! You don't! But if there's one thing we can do here it's explain what dynamistic functionalism is." He actually looks a little excited. A little too excited. "I suppose it starts bout four hundred and eighty-. No. No no no, if you want to really understand it, you have to go back-. How good are you at history?"

Click to shrink...

... Is this species a version of the space Amish?

Please tell me we've discovered the space Amish!

 

[RichardWhereat]

Does anyone remember what episode it was that John Constantine entered the story by climbing up a mountain?

 

[jasonh23761]

I know, right?

I have the same reaction when someone asks me why the Spanish Empire fell or to explain the causes of WW1.

Click to shrink...

History wonks, unite!

 

[Mr Zoat]

'to your brain'

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Khettien]

The best answer is "it's complicated".

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"We just didn't factor in greed and panic." - Robin Williams, 2009

 

[Prince Charon]

"We just didn't factor in greed and panic." - Robin Williams, 2009

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Y'know, he's got a point, there.

 

[Chaoswind]

Does anyone remember what episode it was that John Constantine entered the story by climbing up a mountain?

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It was before the split world's episode, and after old Doctor fate got killed by Klarion. Paul sent wonder woman to the UK because he had told Kent Nelson about John. It may have been the episode immediately after Kent Nelson died.