Otto von Saurion
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Someguy Somewhere
The Critical Fumbler
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Looking at the Nam-Ek fight, and noting that while they aren't a 1 to 1 comparison, they would be in the same rough weight class, OL did have a significant issue dealing with him on pure strength and speed.
Now, Doomsday himself changes depending on what universe you end up with, but if we're talking his first appearance in the death of superman story in the comics....honestly I don't see him being an issue for OL at that stage. The much later dark trinity story that introduce Xor to the universe has him as a rough superman replacement, and we've seen how well he with OL.
Doomsday's fast and strong but doesn't adapt during that first fight. If any of the flying tanks around during that run got him off the ground for an extended period his strength means little. The Lanterns in that fight went for blunt force, something OL would know better then to try. The Yeet into space option would take some juggling, and likely burning through a few kinetic shield belts or barriers to get him high enough to use sufficient force to get him off world, without igniting a good chunk of the area.
Once up there Doomday lacks any form of mobility and you just have a static target. Once removed to a safe for the planet distance, OL could crack out the WMD constructs to see if he really IS unkillable, or just leave him to drift...maybe toss him at Apokolips or the Source Wall for shits and giggles.
I will point out one of the solutions that the comic books had for Doomsday was teleporter looping him. They had him trapped in a JL brand teleporter that never fully reintegrated him, so he was just stuck without a physical form, bounced between platforms. This maps back to OL's idea during the Telepathic Simulation with the zeta beam styled Gauss Flayers. If a teleporter like what the League Works by tearing things apart and putting them back together elsewhere, and it works on people like Superman and Wonder Woman, as well as Lanterns with shields up, then it works on damn near anything, and that includes Doomsday.
If we're dealing with later versions of Doomsday that 'evolves responses to what ever killed him previously, and always regenerates from death' then it gets tricky. We don't know what he'd evolve to deal with constructs....I assume some organic crumbler field? As for any emotional spectrum manipulation....early doomsday isn't mentally complex, but later on he gets a bit brighter....and a lot less scary. As Superman says in their rematch, that now that doomsday is Aware, DD remembers him, and understands he *Lost* and *Died*, and has learned something new, Fear. Either end he's got some emotions, and likely runs mostly on RED. Doomsday evolving a response to *Best Snek* would....take a bit of doing I think. Might just end up with a Construct Doomsday at that rate.
Or FEED ME dissolves him to powder. Again, worked on Anti Monitor grade BS, which Doomsday is a fair bit below on the meta.
EDIT: Found the quote for Superman during his rematch:
You're different now. You can think for yourself. So think about this. Before, you were a mindless thing. Nothing could hurt you. You couldn't feel pain, much less understand it. But once you have felt it—it changes you—forever. And you'll begin to understand something new. Fear. I've lived with it all my life. You don't want to die again, do you? The agony of what's happened to you affects your speed—your strength...and that little bit of doubt—that you cannot win today—grows. You understand now, don't you? You will never hurt me again. You will never kill me again. Never again!
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Coda
Versed in the lewd.
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deanimated
Just as long as you don't post it on Wikipedia. That'll get you in trouble.
Veganism (part 2)
Mr Zoat
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13th August 2012
06:17 GMT
"That looks bad."
I squint at the medical hologram showing Kara's rema-. Bod-. Person. I don't want to tempt the fates by referring to her in a way which suggests that her current state of inanimation is permanent.
"That looks very bad."
I turn to look at Karsta.
"This is bad, right?"
She sighs.
"That's bad."
If it were just the malfunctioning suspended animation unit-. No. No, I should be fair. It was performing well within its design parameters. It just wasn't designed for the stresses it was forced to undergo by the suddenly exploding planet beneath it. Or the radiation from a dozen novel forms of kryptonite along with whatever the heck that did to the pod's faster than light system, the pressure of the rock…
And she's still… Kind of alive.
Living tissue, certainly.
Anyway, if it was just a suspended animation unit that wasn't quite up to the job through no fault of its own, we'd stick her on a nutrient drip for a week or two… Maybe use an aortic stimulator, some sort of stem cell suspension to aid in her internal healing…
Kara, we've got in a tank. Parts of her body are… Dead tissue. Not much rot, but slow-burned, shrivelled, desiccated…
After I healed one of my own injuries with my power ring for the first time, back while I still looked human, it occurred to me that I could probably fix anything other than a brain injury, that anything else was just a temporary problem. Even if I didn't have my ring on me or if it was out of power at the time, I just had to survive in the short term and it could be fixed.
Her brain's damaged.
I mean, it's still active. There are still brainwaves occurring without us using a cortical stimulator, but that's… Serious stuff.
"Any ideas?"
"I'm a soldier, not a brain chirurgeon. Injuries like this, we used to ship them back home."
"What sort of damage..?"
"Reduced spatial awareness…" She points to the damaged sectors. "Problems with object permanence, synesthesia, numbness and her intelligence will be about half what it was. She could live, and maybe have a happy life as a smiling simpleton, but she wouldn't really be herself anymore."
I nod. "Recommendations?"
"Find an actual physician."
"You know, I have actually been looking for kryptonians?"
Ugh. Between the vacuum exposure and radiation, there's no chance of finding anything on kryptonian medicine on Krypton itself. Mitchell and Kon had big problems precisely because humans don't have the technology to clone kryptonian brains properly. Inactive kryptonian brains without pre-existing patterns that we want to preserve. Who else might..?
"I don't suppose that the Vrangs would have the required…"
She looks at me like I'm an idiot.
"If there are any left, they'll be the same unwisely uplifted techno-barbarians they always were. You might as well go to Daxam if you're going to look for help from the technologically illiterate."
"Was that a serious suggestion? Because I can go to Daxam."
She moves the holoscreen aside and takes a closer look at the horizontal tank.
"The Doomsday's medical systems can replace most of the damaged tissue. That sort of thing used to be pretty common, before the clone rights movement got started. But I won't clone neural tissue, and even if I could, the ship couldn't implant it."
"Would the Daxamites-?"
"No they wouldn't have a brain chirurgeon. I'd be surprised if they had apothecaries."
"Would they have an automated chirurgeon? From one of the original colony ships?"
She looks a little more thoughtful.
"They might. If they didn't melt it down for scrap."
"Would it still work?"
"Kryptonian programmable crystal lasts a lot longer without maintenance than human technology. Unless they destroyed it, it should still work."
Not… Great, but what alternative is there? Kryptonite didn't even exist in large quantities until Krypton went up, so whatever medical system Kal-El has in his fortress isn't going to have any records on it. And it certainly doesn't have an automated chirurgeon better than what the Doomsday has.
Guess I'm going 'shopping', then.
13th August 2012
08:33 GMT
I chuck the slab of crystal through the boom tube, fire another burst of energy at my pursuers and then step through after it.
"Okay, so it turns out that the Daxamite elders are total hypocrites."
Karsta picks up the chirurgeon engine and attaches it to Kara's pod as the tube shuts down.
"Imagine my surprise."
"Yeah, they're fine using advanced technology to prop up their control. They had sunstones!"
"You don't look hurt."
"I had paint chips. This what we need?"
She calls up a new screen as the chirurgeon engine glows to life. Most of the information doesn't mean much to me, but I can clearly see the 'S' of House El.
"That explains how they got access to the materials for their expedition. Kem-El sponsored them."
"Never heard of him."
"Cultural puritan. He believed that contact with aliens polluted us. I could see him sponsoring isolationist primitivists so they wouldn't be 'tainted' by alien technology."
"But it'll work?"
"As far as I can tell, yes."
"When you say-?"
"Everything here's telling me that it will work. I can't think of anywhere else we could get something better, and she's going to die if we don't use it. But it's not like I can check it."
"I guess sometimes you've just got to roll the dice."
1st September 2012
14:05 GMT
Kara beams. "Are you here to fight the aliens?"
A somewhat stunned Kal-El nods. "If negotiation doesn't work, then yes."
"Great! Let's eradicate them together!"
06:17 GMT
"That looks bad."
I squint at the medical hologram showing Kara's rema-. Bod-. Person. I don't want to tempt the fates by referring to her in a way which suggests that her current state of inanimation is permanent.
"That looks very bad."
I turn to look at Karsta.
"This is bad, right?"
She sighs.
"That's bad."
If it were just the malfunctioning suspended animation unit-. No. No, I should be fair. It was performing well within its design parameters. It just wasn't designed for the stresses it was forced to undergo by the suddenly exploding planet beneath it. Or the radiation from a dozen novel forms of kryptonite along with whatever the heck that did to the pod's faster than light system, the pressure of the rock…
And she's still… Kind of alive.
Living tissue, certainly.
Anyway, if it was just a suspended animation unit that wasn't quite up to the job through no fault of its own, we'd stick her on a nutrient drip for a week or two… Maybe use an aortic stimulator, some sort of stem cell suspension to aid in her internal healing…
Kara, we've got in a tank. Parts of her body are… Dead tissue. Not much rot, but slow-burned, shrivelled, desiccated…
After I healed one of my own injuries with my power ring for the first time, back while I still looked human, it occurred to me that I could probably fix anything other than a brain injury, that anything else was just a temporary problem. Even if I didn't have my ring on me or if it was out of power at the time, I just had to survive in the short term and it could be fixed.
Her brain's damaged.
I mean, it's still active. There are still brainwaves occurring without us using a cortical stimulator, but that's… Serious stuff.
"Any ideas?"
"I'm a soldier, not a brain chirurgeon. Injuries like this, we used to ship them back home."
"What sort of damage..?"
"Reduced spatial awareness…" She points to the damaged sectors. "Problems with object permanence, synesthesia, numbness and her intelligence will be about half what it was. She could live, and maybe have a happy life as a smiling simpleton, but she wouldn't really be herself anymore."
I nod. "Recommendations?"
"Find an actual physician."
"You know, I have actually been looking for kryptonians?"
Ugh. Between the vacuum exposure and radiation, there's no chance of finding anything on kryptonian medicine on Krypton itself. Mitchell and Kon had big problems precisely because humans don't have the technology to clone kryptonian brains properly. Inactive kryptonian brains without pre-existing patterns that we want to preserve. Who else might..?
"I don't suppose that the Vrangs would have the required…"
She looks at me like I'm an idiot.
"If there are any left, they'll be the same unwisely uplifted techno-barbarians they always were. You might as well go to Daxam if you're going to look for help from the technologically illiterate."
"Was that a serious suggestion? Because I can go to Daxam."
She moves the holoscreen aside and takes a closer look at the horizontal tank.
"The Doomsday's medical systems can replace most of the damaged tissue. That sort of thing used to be pretty common, before the clone rights movement got started. But I won't clone neural tissue, and even if I could, the ship couldn't implant it."
"Would the Daxamites-?"
"No they wouldn't have a brain chirurgeon. I'd be surprised if they had apothecaries."
"Would they have an automated chirurgeon? From one of the original colony ships?"
She looks a little more thoughtful.
"They might. If they didn't melt it down for scrap."
"Would it still work?"
"Kryptonian programmable crystal lasts a lot longer without maintenance than human technology. Unless they destroyed it, it should still work."
Not… Great, but what alternative is there? Kryptonite didn't even exist in large quantities until Krypton went up, so whatever medical system Kal-El has in his fortress isn't going to have any records on it. And it certainly doesn't have an automated chirurgeon better than what the Doomsday has.
Guess I'm going 'shopping', then.
13th August 2012
08:33 GMT
I chuck the slab of crystal through the boom tube, fire another burst of energy at my pursuers and then step through after it.
"Okay, so it turns out that the Daxamite elders are total hypocrites."
Karsta picks up the chirurgeon engine and attaches it to Kara's pod as the tube shuts down.
"Imagine my surprise."
"Yeah, they're fine using advanced technology to prop up their control. They had sunstones!"
"You don't look hurt."
"I had paint chips. This what we need?"
She calls up a new screen as the chirurgeon engine glows to life. Most of the information doesn't mean much to me, but I can clearly see the 'S' of House El.
"That explains how they got access to the materials for their expedition. Kem-El sponsored them."
"Never heard of him."
"Cultural puritan. He believed that contact with aliens polluted us. I could see him sponsoring isolationist primitivists so they wouldn't be 'tainted' by alien technology."
"But it'll work?"
"As far as I can tell, yes."
"When you say-?"
"Everything here's telling me that it will work. I can't think of anywhere else we could get something better, and she's going to die if we don't use it. But it's not like I can check it."
"I guess sometimes you've just got to roll the dice."
1st September 2012
14:05 GMT
Kara beams. "Are you here to fight the aliens?"
A somewhat stunned Kal-El nods. "If negotiation doesn't work, then yes."
"Great! Let's eradicate them together!"
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Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Darko
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I'm assuming a lot of people do that a lot of the time.
Well they did have that combat bot or whatever it was, so they may have some medical tech, even if they don't know how it works.
They did have that combat thing paragon fought.
'my pursuers'
'engine, attaches'
Okay...
...
...so either the procedure left some changes, or she's been spending too much time around Karsta and renegade, or this is her actual personality and we just didn't see it in paragon Kara since there weren't hostile aliens around.
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hance1986
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Vaermina
Well worn.
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Wow... They really fucked her over...
hance1986
A pitiful excuse for a man.
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Grayven used a Kryptonian warship's medical tech to fix Kara's brain. Did it leave some bloodlust or imprint or something? I'm reminded of the DC Eradicator for some reason with the word 'eradicate' being bolded by Kara.
cerberus beasty
Making the rounds.
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So the brain was repaired but the lost info was replaced with eradicator software?
Nervaqus987
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Kara, honey, you're a Kryptonian not a Viltrumite.
Also, Grayven? Anything Kryptonian saying the word "eradicate" is a crimson red flag.
BlueMangoAdea
Alive. For now.
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I like her enthusiasm.
hance1986
A pitiful excuse for a man.
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Holy shit that would be awesome. Killhappy Kara is still preferable to what the CW spewed upon us.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Chojin Patriarch
Veteran Lurker
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Ah, a bit of a flashback to show how Kara's recovery went?
Though from the sound if it... Gee, if only you'd though to go to Krypton sooner, Renegade... Well, what's done (or not done) is done.Given you know very little of pure Kryptonian biology, definitely worth making sure.
...But fixable, right? Just isn't right to have Superboys without a Supergirl to be exasperated by their behaviour.
To be blunt, you were lucky. Probably another month and she'd have been a corpse, her soul drifting along haunting the pod... On the other hand, I'm sure you have a whole spectrum's worth of alternate Kryptonite. Any Pink in there?
Joy of clarketech medical technology. If they ain't dead, they can be fixed. And even then, it's a toss-up.
And yet you still had that fear of dying to drive you into what you are now...
...Okay, that is bad. But fixable with Kryptonian technology, right?
Not an option here, alas. This basically is home now...
Oof. Better to keep her under a red sunlight exposure, then. Last thing you'd want is her cruising about with full powers...
What about a magician? Surely one of the many he knows can do something with her? I doubt Cranius's skills would help, talented as he is. Him studying Kryptonian biology would be like trying to repair a smartphone with sharpened rocks.
Too bad he couldn't find the mostly intact facility the Paragon did.
Shame he didn't look hard enough.To be fair, I'm not sure you aren't, in some fields... That would be like asking if you could look up her race's equivalent to, I don't know, Mongols...
...She might be onto something, sarcastic as the suggestion was.
And it would be completely blank. Not useful in patching up an active mind. It's not like dropping a new video card into a gaming PC... Who knows how a Kryptonian soul would react.
Never underestimate all-powerful leaders' ability to maintain secret stashes of useful things.
If they allowed the people aboard to go wild...
Much more ragnarok-proof, huh? Like to see human tech last, what, thousands of years?
Shopping with prejudice. And lots of punching... So, like a Black Friday Sale, then.
Yep, I don't think they were happy to see him... At all.
Toldja, corrupt leadership plus ancient tech equals secret stashes.
...I do hope they no longer have sunstones? Or are you planning another trip sometime to correct that?
One of the weakest weaksauce weaknesses ever.
Because of course an El was involved...Sticking their fingers in just about every bit of Kryptonian history...
So of course he decided to see if a colony could survive with that sort of applied xenophobia... Because SCIENCE!
...That sounds like a lot of uncertainty for the trouble the Renegade went to...
Let's hope you don't roll a 1.
At least she seems to be fully functioning?
...I bet that roll was reaaaal low.
Well, we can but hope that she's not partially mind-fscked by some manner of Eradicator system. Heck, for all we know, maybe she was kind of a bitch in her time on Krypton.
And seeing her planet destroyed and finding herself amongst an alien race shook her out of it? I suppose the next few chapters will let us see which it was...Whenever Possible
Versed in the lewd.
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Did...
Did the puritan-funded colony auto-surgeon have an anti-xenos engram it implanted when it fixed her brain?
Did the puritan-funded colony auto-surgeon have an anti-xenos engram it implanted when it fixed her brain?
ForeverShogo
Not too sore, are you?
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Yeah. Looks like that Daxamite xenophobia got mixed in. Probably had some brainwashing bullshit as part of the program to reinforce their culture and the rulership of their leaders.
Someguy Somewhere
The Critical Fumbler
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For The Emperor Rao!
DrThoth
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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How many of these assumptions are incorrect? The Fortress seemed to be able to analyze Kryptonite just fine, for example. Has Renegade actually been to the Fortress or taken detailed scans of it? (and even then, I think not expecting everything to be accessible by power ring when it comes to Kryptonian tech isn't the most unreasonable thing).
Darko
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Cranius may actually be able to figure it out.
And finding a mafician that may know about Kryptonian metaphysics may be incrediblydifficult.
Shopping with prejudice. And lots of punching... So, like a Black Friday Sale, then.
Now I'm picturing renegade and Luthor walking through a flower garden and Luthor telling renegade he's been working for him all along, all the dgile an old man is laughing at renegades situation.
They don't like aliens, at all.
And I doubt tenegades brand of....himself, helped all that much.
Well, we can but hope that she's not partially mind-fscked by some manner of Eradicator system. Heck, for all we know, maybe she was kind of a bitch in her time on Krypton.
I think in the comics she had some prejudice against Kon due to him being a clone, so she may have some prejudice here.
Though it may have been from a fanfic I read instead of from the comics.
Or the healing device, which belonged to a bunch of xenophobes and was probably made by one, fixed her and made her somewhat xenophobic since it thought that was the correct way to be.
Or seeing as she grew up in a xenophobic society she may also have such tendencies, at least if the aliens are hostile.
We may not have seen this type of behavior from paragon Kara since there were no hostile at the time.
Darko
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He has been to the Fortress before even talked to Jor El.
He got a database on Kryptonian culture for Kon and data on Kryptonite.
Though yeah the Forteess having ring defences makes sense.
Ngamer11
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Considering Mr Zoat liked the two following quotes under this, I think it's safe to say that Renegade!Kara has been made much more anti-alien.Well, we can but hope that she's not partially mind-fscked by some manner of Eradicator system. Heck, for all we know, maybe she was kind of a bitch in her time on Krypton.
The Renegade was able to download all the information the Fortress of Solitude had about Krypton. It's how he was able to turn Kon into a full Kryptonian.
Vaermina
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Remember, Grayven lost most of his Meta Knowledge when he soul fucked himself with the Fatherbox.
And yes, it looks like she has been infected by the Eradicator given the direct mention of Kem-El it's creator.
transhumansage
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what the f$%#? and when is grayven gonna change daxam. are their leadership chosen by the populace or is it hereditary?
Vaermina
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Zoat nerfed everything that wasn't Power Rings, so the assumptions probably were correct.
Sockmonkey
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As clones were created to be soldiers, that's the only existing mental template the equipment had.
it was a choice between using that to fill in the missing bits, or having her be a stereotypical dumb blonde.
The whole thing is a bit of a plot hole fridge logic sort of thing though.
Grayven had the fortress data, a power ring, and the genomorphs, so he really didn't need to bother with the Daxamites.
Taking their secret stash of tech will likely improve their society long term as their leaders no longer have the means to unilaterally enforce unpopular decisions.
it was a choice between using that to fill in the missing bits, or having her be a stereotypical dumb blonde.
The whole thing is a bit of a plot hole fridge logic sort of thing though.
Grayven had the fortress data, a power ring, and the genomorphs, so he really didn't need to bother with the Daxamites.
Taking their secret stash of tech will likely improve their society long term as their leaders no longer have the means to unilaterally enforce unpopular decisions.
lancelot
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It seems like slowly be surely paragon's behavior is producing more and more awesome long term results. While Renegades choices are slowly be surely coming back around to bite him on the ass. I love it when the universe has consequences for being an selfish, petty, asshole. Maybe not all the time but certainly most of the time until he grew the fuck up recently.
AverusBlack
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Depends on whether or not you remember that Vega is a star cluster and therefore consists of more than one sun.