With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Ngamer11 · May 23, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, I don't mean-. Tamaranian social mores are a good deal more… Permissive, than those I grew up with.

Found an error. It should be 'Tamaranean'.

Mr Zoat · May 23, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
Found an error. It should be 'Tamaranean'.

Thank you, corrected.

Ngamer11 · May 23, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Raven turns to focus on the local Koriand'r, black light boiling around her fists-

"KAR EN TUK!"

-and resolving into claws as she flings herself at her friend!

I'm not sure what that's a reference of, but the video doesn't work anymore.

Ardy · May 23, 2021

egooo said:
When will you stop bitching about every single 'issue' you think up in bouts of excessive nitpicking?

well he's done it since the story has started 6 years or so ago, so presumably he'll stop shortly after the story ends (he'll probably need a few days to write some really huge nitpicks for the story as a whole)

Lazurman · May 23, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
I'm not sure what that's a reference of, but the video doesn't work anymore.

Is a Doom reference. Kar En Tuk = Rip And Tear.

ultima333 · May 23, 2021

Zig said:
snip

Metabolicjosh said:
snip

Stsword said:
snip

I hope this is the end of this topic in this thread.
Maybe take it to a general Worm discussion thread instead if you wish to continue.

Ganurath · May 23, 2021

Stsword said:
I'm going to need a citation for that "Wildbow said that magic is an instant win against the Entities."

How about a cite of PtV's only limitation against OCPs, explicitly including magic, is a disconnect between shard and host? Which, based on her canon behavior, Contessa has a contingency path to prevent.

It makes me skeptical of Grayven being able to just yoink the Protectorate's dumping ground for problematic heroes, if OCPs don't magically win against Entity stuff.

Mr Zoat · May 23, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
I'm not sure what that's a reference of, but the video doesn't work anymore.

Thank you, I'll change it.

Ganurath said:
It makes me skeptical of Grayven being able to just yoink the Protectorate's dumping ground for problematic heroes, if OCPs don't magically win against Entity stuff.

Are you saying that Colorado is the Protectorate's dumping ground for problematic heroes?

Ganurath · May 23, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Are you saying that Colorado is the Protectorate's dumping ground for problematic heroes?

Aurora, Colorado, in particular. Bastion's Worm wiki page references the relevant WoG as a cite, since he would've been transferred there for his racist tirade if he were less high profile.

Steelplaza · May 23, 2021

You know, I've started to wonder if the SI is underestimating how dangerous Hal Jordan would be in a serious fight. The outcome of their sparring sessions aside, we know that Hal either has or could have (if continuity had been allowed to unfold) take on many Lantern+ enemies. The former bearer of this enhanced ring being only one example.

Perhaps the issue is that Hal can't summon the amount of Willpower in something he knows in a sparring session that he can when it's really all on the line and his life is in danger.

Zig · May 23, 2021

Steelplaza said:
You know, I've started to wonder if the SI is underestimating how dangerous Hal Jordan would be in a serious fight. The outcome of their sparring sessions aside, we know that Hal either has or could have (if continuity had been allowed to unfold) take on many Lantern+ enemies. The former bearer of this enhanced ring being only one example.

Perhaps the issue is that Hal can't summon the amount of Willpower in something he knows in a sparring session that he can when it's really all on the line and his life is in danger.

Part of the issue is that the SI is basically a counter to Green Lanterns, with only Guy having figured out effective coutnermeasures. If you take a nonlantern character without a quickly synthesizable weakness, Hal could probably be as effective as the SI. It's just that the majority of the situations we see aren't that, and the SI (perhaps rightly) gives Hal and the other GLs crap for not diversifying their skillsets.

Mr Zoat · May 23, 2021

Ganurath said:
Aurora, Colorado, in particular. Bastion's Worm wiki page references the relevant WoG as a cite, since he would've been transferred there for his racist tirade if he were less high profile.

Huh. That actually makes it a little funnier, as the Renegade wouldn't exactly be competing against the Protectorate's best to begin with. Though that could equally be read as a more or less random destination where no one would have heard of him and that has a low profile, rather than being a specific dumping ground. In the various fanfics I've read, containment zones are where they send the complete failures.

Ostentatiousnessness · May 24, 2021

So I have a question, not just related to the story but also to YJ canon, for everyone:

What in the good fuck are Luthor and The Light thinking, working with Darkseid? I can think of at least two members who's stated goals go 100% against what Darkseid will do to Earth; Luthor and Ras.

Now the characters have been changed and retconned and interpreted to death but my understanding of them was that a) Luthor hates Superman because he's so blatantly not Human, he makes the rest of us look inferior and that Luthor's goal was to show the people of Earth that Superman was not a person worthy of worship, with the secondary objective of uplifting Humanity to be more than it was.

b) Ras is an ecoterrorist who wants to safeguard the environment (understandable) through increasingly bizarre and crazy methods of attempted genocide (not understandable) and ninjutsu (just kind of fucking weird).

Neither of them are stupid people and they MUST know a) that Darkseid goes around enslaving populaces and twisting them into mindless monsters and b) that he's either going to destroy the whole fucking planet or render it into a twisted hellscape. And yet they, and the rest of The Light have basically fucking given him the planet and its people.

Now, I very much doubt that there was any agreement between the two parties, but they (and this is as far as I know) reached out to Darkseid and asked for his assistance destroying the League. Now I don't know if we know any the details of that deal, but if they never put an offer on the table then I expect Darkseid will just rock up after the defeat of the League and claim "Well, I helped you destroy your enemies, in return I claim the planet and its people as my payment for such."

Now by all means please feel free to correct me if I've gotten anything wrong in this hyper-caffeinated ramble but this strikes me as stupid for the sake of a plot that brings in an iconic villain, again not saying that's a Zoat issue but an issue with YJ canon.

[Edit: Grammar]

Darko · May 24, 2021

Ostentatiousnessness said:
So I have a question, not just related to the story but also to YJ canon, for everyone:

What in the good fuck are Luthor and The Light thinking, working with Darkseid? I can think of at least two members who's stated goals go 100% against what Darkseid will do to Earth; Luthor and Ras.

Now the characters have been changed and retconned and interpreted to death but my understanding of them was that a) Luthor hates Superman because he's so blatantly not Human, he makes the rest of us look inferior and that Luthor's goal was to show the people of Earth that Superman was not a person worthy of worship, with the secondary objective of uplifting Humanity to be more than it was.

b) Ras is an ecoterrorist who wants to safeguard the environment (understandable) through increasingly bizarre and crazy methods of attempted genocide (not understandable) and ninjutsu (just kind of fucking weird).

Neither of them are stupid people and they MUST know a) that Darkseid goes around enslaving populaces and twisting them into mindless monsters and b) that he's either going to destroy the whole fucking planet or render it into a twisted hellscape. And yet they, and the rest of The Light have basically fucking given him the planet and its people.

Now, I very much doubt that there was any agreement between the two parties, but they (and this is as far as I know) reached out to Darkseid and asked for his assistance destroying the League. Now I don't know if we know any the details of that deal, but if they never put an offer on the table then I expect Darkseid will just rock up after the defeat of the League and claim "Well, I helped you destroy your enemies, in return I claim the planet and its people as my payment for such."

Now by all means please feel free to correct me if I've gotten anything wrong with this hyper-caffeinated ramble but this strikes me as stupid for the sake of a plot that brings in an iconic villain, again not saying that's a Zoat issue but an issue with YJ canon.

One thing to remember about the Light is that they're essentially comic book villains, and hence they're crazy.

They may seem to be rational and sane, but they're actions kinda show that deep down they're deeply, deeply disturbed.

Because of this they can probably justify any of their actions as being some kind of brilliant scheme when in reality it's just another crazy scheme.

And yeah, Luthor has been portrayed multiple times as being a xenophobe, but he has worked with aliens during those times.

Ras has also been taking many, many baths in his Lazurus Pits, which drive people crazy.

Also, Ras has been largely surrounded by the members of his cult for centuries, so any good advice they give him is probably a bit tainted due to the extreme loyalty they have for him and so may not wish to displease him by contradicting him.

He may have told them to be honest, but that probably wouldn't work on the same level as someone who wasn't brainwashed.

And yeah, Ras and Luthor are both extremely smart, but the fact is that just because a person is smart, that doesn't mean that they're not stupid.

Plenty of highly intelligent people have believed in stupid things, said stupid things, or done stupid things. Why should Ras and Luthor be different?

And remember, they're extremely arrogant.

They may know what Darkseid does, but they may think that they can handle him.

They thought the same with the Reach, but if it wasn't for one superhero traveling back in time they would have just died.

Ostentatiousnessness · May 24, 2021

Darko said:
One thing to remember about the Light is that they're essentially comic book villains, and hence they're crazy.

They may seem to be rational and sane, but they're actions kinda show that deep down they're deeply, deeply disturbed.

Because of this they can probably justify any of their actions as being some kind of brilliant scheme when in reality it's just another crazy scheme.

And yeah, Luthor has been portrayed multiple times as being a xenophobe, but he has worked with aliens during those times.

Ras has also been taking many, many baths in his Lazurus Pits, which drive people crazy.

Also, Ras has been largely surrounded by the members of his cult for centuries, so any good advice they give him is probably a bit tainted due to the extreme loyalty they have for him and so may not wish to displease him by contradicting him.

He may have told them to be honest, but that probably wouldn't work on the same level as someone who wasn't brainwashed.

And yeah, Ras and Luthor are both extremely smart, but the fact is that just because a person is smart, that doesn't mean that they're not stupid.

Plenty of highly intelligent people have believed in stupid things, said stupid things, or done stupid things. Why should Ras and Luthor be different?

And remember, they're extremely arrogant.

They may know what Darkseid does, but they may think that they can handle him.

They thought the same with the Reach, but if it wasn't for one superhero traveling back in time they would have just died.

Those are all good and very valid points. I find myself agreeing all of it.

I guess my frustration comes from the fact that you'd think they'd be smarter than that or at lest more aware of their failings than that. In a meta sense it, again, feels like an idiot plot.

Thanks for your response nonetheless.

gentum · May 24, 2021

This update made me literally sigh out loud. Basically nothing happened. All he did was defeat a scarab with a special ring. Every arc of this story that I read leaves me with the bitter taste of disappointment.

Bramble Thorn · May 24, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Not too many. See you in a week."

...
.....
..."Hey there local negotiator person. Since the other side of the negotiating table shot the hell out of your planet to try and swipe this, I'd really like to get this super hot item that has everyone's attention fixated on it somewhere safe out of your line of fire, and that can shrug off a Reach fleet. Since I'm hopefully currently in your good graces and doing this directly benefits your nation, could you see about getting your government to approve an emergency and exceptional customs and travel rules exemption so I can quickly move this ring to a secure location without needing to deal with normal departure and reentry protocols and time expenditures."

"Or I could just put it off for a week and hope nothing untoward happens like a doofus."

Bramble Thorn · May 24, 2021

gentum said:
This update made me literally sigh out loud. Basically nothing happened. All he did was defeat a scarab with a special ring. Every arc of this story that I read leaves me with the bitter taste of disappointment.

*Looks at posters avatar.*
*Looks at posters message*
Looks legit to me.

Welcome to With this Ring Anton Ego!

ForeverShogo · May 24, 2021

On what The Light is thinking . . . They're basically thinking that, when the time comes, they can take Darkseid.

They think the Justice League is maintaining a calcified status quo that holds back humanity and prevents the species from growing/evolving/reaching its full potential. Which, in their eyes, is humanity reaching the point in which it becomes able to conquer the entire galaxy.

Darkseid actually attacked the Earth during the time of Genghis Khan, who was actually Vandal Savage. He, his two meta-human sons, and his army tried to fight him and got their asses kicked by him. But I guess they impressed him because Savage was able to cut a deal with him that can basically be summed up as, "We'll each set out to conquer the galaxy, saving each other for last. When there's no one else for us to conquer but each other we'll have a big galactic-scale showdown. Winner takes all."

Naturally, at some point, Savage thinks he'll be proclaimed Super King Big Nuts and rule over humanity as their God-Emperor.

Of course the fact that he hasn't already been ruling as such for millennia is honestly one of the stupidest goddamn things about his character. He reliably sires meta-human children, he's effectively immortal, and he's been around long enough he should have easily been able to exploit all his bullshit to take advantage of the superstitious nature of humanity to go along with his proclamations of being a God-Emperor.

Especially when they keep trying to say he was secretly any number of famous conquerors throughout history but he apparently just regularly changes his mind and fucks off to do something else whenever he reaches the heights of said historical figure's historical conquests.

Even if he doesn't yet control the entire planet, it's bizarre to me that he doesn't control a pretty big chunk of it.

Also, I don't think Zoat is using it because it wasn't revealed until well after this fic started . . . But in Young Justice canon Nabu was actually one of Savage's sons who somehow became a Lord of Order after dying in Babylonian times. (And I've been talking about Savage because Babylonian times is also when The Light first formed, with him as their leader and his daughter, Ishtar, as the only other member.)

Anyways . . . tl;dr is that The Light thinks they can kick Darkseid's ass.

Prince Charon · May 24, 2021

ForeverShogo said:
Especially when they keep trying to say he was secretly any number of famous conquerors throughout history but he apparently just regularly changes his mind and fucks off to do something else whenever he reaches the heights of said historical figure's historical conquests.

Even if he doesn't yet control the entire planet, it's bizarre to me that he doesn't control a pretty big chunk of it.

He's a caveman, and given his canon behavior, the fact that he was supposed to have been all of these famous (and intelligent, in many cases) conquerors is one of the most ridiculous things about his character, unless we're supposed to believe that he's been intentionally sandbagging heavily. Also, he's in a world with other metas and magic-users, so him regularly getting his ass kicked badly enough that he regularly goes off to lick his wounds would make a lot of sense... if he hadn't been able to beat Darkseid somehow (unless Darkseid was massively sandbagging, or YJ Darkseid is heavily nerfed).

I have serious issues with YJ-canon, especially Season Three.

Darko · May 24, 2021

Prince Charon said:
if he hadn't been able to beat Darkseid somehow

He didn't actually beat him.

Darkseid hit him with his Omega Beams but he survived.

Darkseid was intrigued by this and Desaad said that humans could make sturdy stock for Anti Life, so Darkseid spared Earth and made his deal with Savage.

Prince Charon said:
(unless Darkseid was massively sandbagging, or YJ Darkseid is heavily nerfed).

I think everyone is kinda nerfed in YJ.

Prince Charon said:
I have serious issues with YJ-canon, especially Season Three.

You're not the only one that has problems with season 3.

Mr Zoat · May 24, 2021

13th August 2012
12:51 GMT

"Ships?" Alonzo looks at me with an expression of concern. "I thought that you were building your own?"

I nod. "We are. But I've recently found that we're in a situation that means we need more ships a little faster than I thought we did."

"Is someone.. invading Vega? And you think they've got enough force that they can beat you?" I nod. "Who, the Spiders?"

"Another version of myself, leading a fleet of gordanians."

"Another-?" He shakes his head. "A.. clone-?"

"I don't know. My father might have cloned me, but I'm reluctant to ask him due to him paying us more attention being far worse than anything else that could happen."

Alonzo purses his lips.

"You..? Ah. Don't suppose-?"

"What, that I'm the clone?" I shrug. "Could be. It's not something I intend to be sensitive about if it's true. Whatever he and I share, we're both our own men now. If either of us even is a clone. For all I know DeSaad cut us in half at some point and then regrew the missing halves."

He blinks.

"Can your people do that?"

"With the right equipment. I mean, with the right equipment so could you-."

"But my other half isn't coming to Vega with a fleet. And boom tubes, I assume."

"Oh, he's definitely got boom tubes. Don't know if he's got hush tubes or not, but that just means that you'd have twenty seconds notice rather than none." I fan out my right hand. "Now, there is an argument that you shouldn't help me. The other Grayven has no personal vendetta against you, and if you surrender promptly might even leave you in charge of Euphorix. If you chose to take that route I'll try obfuscating where the Euphorians working for me came from, but ultimately I don't know how like me he is. He might want to do something more extreme to emphasise his domination, and even if he doesn't he might want to appoint his own governor."

"But you'll leave us to it."

"I don't have time to do anything else. I'm already making unfavourable agreements to get what I need to stop him-. Incidentally, that's involved giving power rings to Pren and Kalista."

"What?"

"That was what Oswin wanted in exchange for his help. I don't think they can brute force your shield with them-" A safe assumption given that they can barely fly at the moment. "-but if they were so inclined it would make finding a way to bypass it much easier. And of course you've lost plausible deniability on the Euphorians already working for me. The Queen knows that you know that the Citadel is gone."

"That's… Unfortunate…" He leans back. "Ah, I suppose it was inevitable. She's an intelligent woman."

"Apparently, the Omega Men had been passing intelligence to the Crown Imperium for years."

"So now the Crown Imperium wants a compliant puppet ruler."

"A local ally who isn't frantically trying to rebuild their world. I doubt that Kalista would accept being a puppet, but I also doubt that the relationship would be one of equals."

"And you want our ships."

"I know that Euphorix had a fleet. I know that you didn't use it when Tamaran was conquered, which means that you either sent it to the breakers' yard when you cashiered your naval personnel, or you mothballed it. Since I'm already employing a large proportion of your old navy, manning the ships isn't a problem. So the question is, do you still have them, and what do you want for them?"

"I should probably start with a power ring."

"Okay, orange power rings make people insane. I don't care what happens to Pren or Kalista and the Tamaraneans can mostly handle it. You want one? Fine, but make sure that your will is up to date because if you flip out I will appoint your successor myself, and I will publicise that it happened."

He frowns.

"Insane how?"

"They condition you to act on your desires. All of them, all the time. And they amp the intensity of those desires up-."

He's already nodding. "Tamaranean, yes, yes. But you manage it."

"I'm a god. My nature is written into the structure of the universe."

"I'm not some substitious cargo cultist; I know perfectly well that's not how gods work."

"We call ourselves 'New Gods' because when we come into our full power we take an attribute of the Source into ourselves. We don't emerge from the Dream or the thaumosphere of a particular world. We work everywhere." Ah. "You do know that the Source exists, right?"

"I'm aware of a set of phenomena that some people refer to as being the work of a supreme divine being, certainly."

I wave my right hand and shake my head. "I couldn't tell you if it's actually self-aware or not, but it's powerful and it shares a portion of that power with us. If one of your magicians tried altering me with magic, the spell would probably fail. That's testable, but if you want to study me in detail I'd rather-."

"Yes, this isn't the time for a theological debate. So I'd be taking my sanity into my own hands. But if I don't, Kalista will be a war heroine twice over and I won't."

"Or she'll be dead or insane. Look, if you're worried about losing your job I'm perfectly happy to give you a new one. If you want to keep control of Euphorix, now's the time to begin transitioning to a different government structure."

He frowns. "Like what?"

"Ah, there are a number of countries on my adopted homeworld where the monarch is in theory head of state but all actual political power rests in another office. You not being regent any more wouldn't be a problem if you… Were Prime Minister in a set up where that office wasn't dependent on the monarch's approval."

"No, the nobility would never accept it."

"Simple then: establish a deliberative body and give each noble family a single seat. If they gain power themselves, they're less likely to complain about you gaining some as well."

"If I have to get their approval for everything, that's never going to work."

"And they'll realise that, and won't complain about some powers being invested in the executive. You'll have less power than you do now, but you'll have Kalista-proofed it. Let's be honest: she never exactly had her finger on the pulse, did she?"

He considers that for a moment.

"You want ships?"

"I want ships."

He taps on his computer, bringing up the relevant files.

"We broke up some of them, and turned a few others into museums. But the rest are sitting in a military depot in our driest desert, just in case we needed them again. We're maintaining them, but they will need a once-over before you fly them away-. I assume that you'll be removing them by boom tube?"

I nod. "I've got a macro tube generator in my home base."

"But people will notice them going. There are already questions about the disappearance of so many veterans."

"What do people think has happened?"

"The most pervasive rumour is that I'm getting ready to follow Queen Kalista to war-." He sniffs. "Which is probably what I'm going to have to do if I want to secure my position. What are you offering?"

"I was assuming a free trade and mutual defence treaty, but I can throw in a share of salvage and colonisation rights."

He nods.

"We can negotiate a fair price when we know more about what I can actually provide. Let me talk to some people. You'll get your ships."

He sighs.

"And we're finally going to war."

Darko · May 24, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"I don't know

You kinda do.

Mr Zoat said:
"What?"

Worried about your position there, eh.

Mr Zoat said:
I don't think they can brute force your shield with them-

Well if they really want to, then they may just be able to.

Queshire · May 24, 2021

I feel like that last line should be folllwed by sone drum beats and a mobilization montage.

NightmareWarden · May 24, 2021

It's weird two Pauls are going to war, yet we don't have a full-scale war with Larfleeze in any continuity. Oh well, I'll just have to hope someone kicks off a war with a burgeoning Sinestro Corps.

Mr Zoat · May 24, 2021

NightmareWarden said:
It's weird two Pauls are going to war, yet we don't have a full-scale war with Larfleeze in any continuity. Oh well, I'll just have to hope someone kicks off a war with a burgeoning Sinestro Corps.

You can't really have a war against one man. He has no supply lines, no allies and no plan. He just turns up and if you don't beat him right then he'll eat you and expand his army. On the other hand, if you kill him, that's it.

Chojin Patriarch · May 24, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
13th August 2012
12:51 GMT

"Ships?" Alonzo looks at me with an expression of concern. "I thought that you were building your own?"

I nod. "We are. But I've recently found that we're in a situation that means we need more ships a little faster than I thought we did."

The joy of unexpected belligerence. And there's no telling just how soon they need them, either. What with large-scale Boom Tubes being an option for Grayven-16's fleet. At least we get to see the Renegade worried a little.

"Is someone.. invading Vega? And you think they've got enough force that they can beat you?" I nod. "Who, the Spiders?"

"Another version of myself, leading a fleet of gordanians."

Which is probably worse than a Spider Guild fleet coming to avenge the Queen they sent.... But not by much.

"Another-?" He shakes his head. "A.. clone-?"

"I don't know. My father might have cloned me, but I'm reluctant to ask him due to him paying us more attention being far worse than anything else that could happen."

Yes, The last thing you want is Him showing up on your comfiest couch again. Especially if He's curious about your notable lack of Anti-Life.

Alonzo purses his lips.

"You..? Ah. Don't suppose-?"

"What, that I'm the clone?" I shrug. "Could be. It's not something I intend to be sensitive about if it's true. Whatever he and I share, we're both our own men now. If either of us even is a clone. For all I know DeSaad cut us in half at some point and then regrew the missing halves."

Oh, when the truth come out, there are going to be so many shocked faces... It'll look like an anime reaction moment shot across the galaxy.

He blinks.

"Can your people do that?"

Given some of the arcanotech the New Gods have, it might be a question of which mad scientist of a deity could manage it.

"With the right equipment. I mean, with the right equipment so could you-."

"But my other half isn't coming to Vega with a fleet. And boom tubes, I assume."

Ah, yes. That planetary shield's not looking so impenetrable now, is it?

"Oh, he's definitely got boom tubes. Don't know if he's got hush tubes or not, but that just means that you'd have twenty seconds notice rather than none." I fan out my right hand. "Now, there is an argument that you shouldn't help me. The other Grayven has no personal vendetta against you, and if you surrender promptly might even leave you in charge of Euphorix. If you chose to take that route I'll try obfuscating where the Euphorians working for me came from, but ultimately I don't know how like me he is. He might want to do something more extreme to emphasise his domination, and even if he doesn't he might want to appoint his own governor."

Worst case, he might be so insulted by your cowardice he has you flayed into confetti, then enslaves the whole population. He'd be doing the latter one way or the other, but he wouldn't be nice about it this way.

"But you'll leave us to it."

"I don't have time to do anything else. I'm already making unfavourable agreements to get what I need to stop him-. Incidentally, that's involved giving power rings to Pren and Kalista."

"What?"

Oof. That is the reaction of a man whose throne is feeling a little more shaky with every word the Renegade says...

"That was what Oswin wanted in exchange for his help. I don't think they can brute force your shield with them-" A safe assumption given that they can barely fly at the moment. "-but if they were so inclined it would make finding a way to bypass it much easier. And of course you've lost plausible deniability on the Euphorians already working for me. The Queen knows that you know that the Citadel is gone."

"That's… Unfortunate…" He leans back. "Ah, I suppose it was inevitable. She's an intelligent woman."

Intelligent, but not Wise. Which makes her all the worse.

"Apparently, the Omega Men had been passing intelligence to the Crown Imperium for years."

"So now the Crown Imperium wants a compliant puppet ruler."

It would make things more convenient for them, yes... Unfortunately for you, I don't think you're essential to their plans...

"A local ally who isn't frantically trying to rebuild their world. I doubt that Kalista would accept being a puppet, but I also doubt that the relationship would be one of equals."

"And you want our ships."

To be fair, the Crown Imperium probably would arrange for Kalista to pass on suitably grand pronouncements occasionally, then keep her in luxury the rest of the time...

"I know that Euphorix had a fleet. I know that you didn't use it when Tamaran was conquered, which means that you either sent it to the breakers' yard when you cashiered your naval personnel, or you mothballed it. Since I'm already employing a large proportion of your old navy, manning the ships isn't a problem. So the question is, do you still have them, and what do you want for them?"

"I should probably start with a power ring."

Ehhh... Would you care to reconsider? I get the feeling you would not a powerful Lantern be.

"Okay, orange power rings make people insane. I don't care what happens to Pren or Kalista and the Tamaraneans can mostly handle it. You want one? Fine, but make sure that your will is up to date because if you flip out I will appoint your successor myself, and I will publicise that it happened."

He frowns.

"Insane how?"

Good thing he's sensible enough to ask.

"They condition you to act on your desires. All of them, all the time. And they amp the intensity of those desires up-."

He's already nodding. "Tamaranean, yes, yes. But you manage it."

The Renegade knows what he wants, and how to moderate himself. He can understand delayed gratification, for a start.

"I'm a god. My nature is written into the structure of the universe."

"I'm not some substitious cargo cultist; I know perfectly well that's not how gods work."

Also, the Yellow ring helps dampen the Orange.

"We call ourselves 'New Gods' because when we come into our full power we take an attribute of the Source into ourselves. We don't emerge from the Dream or the thaumosphere of a particular world. We work everywhere." Ah. "You do know that the Source exists, right?"

"I'm aware of a set of phenomena that some people refer to as being the work of a supreme divine being, certainly."

Ah, you're one of those people, who need to have a rational explanation for all things, eh?

I wave my right hand and shake my head. "I couldn't tell you if it's actually self-aware or not, but it's powerful and it shares a portion of that power with us. If one of your magicians tried altering me with magic, the spell would probably fail. That's testable, but if you want to study me in detail I'd rather-."

"Yes, this isn't the time for a theological debate. So I'd be taking my sanity into my own hands. But if I don't. Kalista will be a war heroine twice over and I won't."

Yes, but the people have seen how you rule, and you do it reasonably well. You still have your head attached, after all. But Kalista? Well...

"Or she'll be dead or insane. Look, if you're worried about losing your job I'm perfectly happy to give you a new one. If you want to keep control of Euphorix, now's the time to begin transitioning to a different government structure."

He frowns. "Like what?"

"Tell me, have you heard the term 'Constitutional Monarchy' before?"
"Sounds... Democratic."

"Ah, there are a number of countries on my adopted homeworld where the monarch is in theory head of state but all actual political power rests in another office. You not being regent any more wouldn't be a problem if you… Were Prime Minister in a set up where that office wasn't dependent on the monarch's approval."

"No, the nobility would never accept it."

Then you bribe them. Dazzle them with the promise of their own council that can advise the leader.

"Simple them: establish a deliberative body and give each noble family a single seat. If they gain power themselves, they're less likely to complain about you gaining some as well."

"If I have to get their approval for everything, that's never going to work."

And if it's one seat per house, there's likely to be some arguments about who deserves to sit in it. Arguments that end up with people dead...

"And they'll realise that, and won't complain about some powers being invested in the executive. You'll have less power than you do now, but you'll have Kalista-proofed it. Let's be honest; she never exactly had her finger on the pulse, did she?"

He considers that for a moment.

Well, he's not wrong. At least your people won't have to go through the shit England did to get the Magna Carta set up.

"You want ships?"

"I want ships."

"Lots of ships."

And now I have images of them standing in a white void with rows of spacecraft sliding past running though my head... Dangit, brain!

He taps on his computer, bringing up the relevant files.

"We broke up some of them, and turned a few others into museums. But the rest are sitting in a military depot in our driest desert, just in case we needed them again. We're maintaining them, but they will need a once-over before you fly them away-. I assume that you'll be removing them by boom tube?"

Sensible fellow. Always be prepared for that rainy day. O in this case, a call to aid in an alliance against invading forces.

I nod. "I've got a macro tube generator in my home base."

"But people will notice them going. There are already questions about the disappearance of so many veterans."

What, you didn't distribute a cover story? For shame.

"What do people think has happened?"

"The most pervasive rumour is that I'm getting ready to follow Queen Kalista to war-." He sniffs. "Which is probably what I'm going to have to do if I want to secure my position. What are you offering?"

Besides not getting conquered by Grayven-16?

"I was assuming a free trade and mutual defence treaty, but I can throw in a share of salvage and colonisation rights."

He nods.

Heh. Colonisation rights... For a culture happy to sit back, holed up in their little bubble... Still, I suppose they'll want to leave sooner or later.

"We can negotiate a fair price when we know more about what I can actually provide. Let me talk to some people. You'll get your ships."

He sighs.

"And we're finally going to war."

Better than sitting idle as the war comes to you. Because I doubt Grayven-16 would be fine with passing you by, all locked up in your little safety bubble.

The Renegade still preparing for company in Vega, I see. Let's hope his work pays off, and bad things don't happen to some of the nicer corners of the sector. And as a bonus, he's fostering a co-operative attitude between the various Vega races... Always better to have an army that gets along with its disparate parts.

...more ships a little faster than I thought we did.

Double Space

...we take an attribute of the Source into ourselves.

Another Double Space.

"Simple them: establish a deliberative body...

"Simple then: establish a deliberative body...

Radix · May 24, 2021

Prince Charon said:
He's a caveman, and given his canon behavior, the fact that he was supposed to have been all of these famous (and intelligent, in many cases) conquerors is one of the most ridiculous things about his character, unless we're supposed to believe that he's been intentionally sandbagging heavily. Also, he's in a world with other metas and magic-users, so him regularly getting his ass kicked badly enough that he regularly goes off to lick his wounds would make a lot of sense... if he hadn't been able to beat Darkseid somehow (unless Darkseid was massively sandbagging, or YJ Darkseid is heavily nerfed).

I have serious issues with YJ-canon, especially Season Three.

Yeah, the being every conquerer thing just doesnt workm especislly given that many had important childhoods as nobles with people who knew them. No way is Savage passing as a 19 year old Macedonian prince.

The only one that seems potentially plausible is Ghengis Khan who grew up from poverty. He easily could have slipped into that identity. And Darkseid could explain the collapse of that venture.

As for why he isnt god emperor? I imagine he tried. But that wont stop power hungry people, freedom fighters, etc. He could legit be god and people will still rebel against him. He seems to have learned, hence working behind the scenes in the modern day.

Darko · May 24, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Which is probably worse than a Spider Guild fleet coming to avenge the Queen they sent....

Technically they didn't send her there.

They probably sent the ones that made her though.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Intelligent, but not Wise. Which makes her all the worse.

So like renegade and Luthor, but probably not quite as unwise.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, but the people have seen how you rule, and you do it reasonably well. You still have your head attached, after all. But Kalista? Well...

But people may prefer hearing about war stories over how taxes work, so they may be more interested in someone that fought against a evil empire over someone that decided to hide from it.

DrThoth · May 24, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm not some substitious cargo cultist

I'm assuming this should be 'superstitious,' since substitious means belief in something that's true and that's not what Alonzo is implying cargo cultists do.

This update makes me want to see more Euphorian politics on the Paragon side for some reason, probably because his activities there were so amusing.

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