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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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IndigoAbyss said:
I suppose that does make sense, but it sound a bit too optimistic to me. I don't know much about Earth 10 nor Overman, but I don't really think that he cares about changing things. If he truly doesn't like the things the way that they are, why hasn't he done something to change it already? It looks to me that Overman is basically viewed as an omnipotent god. Not to mention he has an army of Metahumans on this side (I'm assuming that he probably does). I checked the wiki on Earth 10 and it looks like the one ruling the earth is Adolf Hitler III (I love the creativity and originality with the names), but he seems more like the De Jury leader, not De Facto.
Overman is probably the one who hold the actual real power, so why hasn't he made any effort to change things? Take note, I'm not saying that Overman should have completely changed the entire system overnight, but he definitely could have made some small reforms. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't he know about other Earths and how they work. So he should know that Nazism isn't the best philosophy to have.
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While Overman is an important icon for the Nazi Regime he isn't in charge, from what I can tell he doesn't want to overthrow the system, which would just cause more deaths, but rather convince people that the Purges were an unnecessary tragedy that their ancestors committed rather than something to be lauded


As for the Reichsman, they wouldn't necessarily be on his side because there are die hard Nazis among them, most notably their version of Batman, Leatherwing, but there are a few that would maybe support him, such as Donner, Underwaterman and Brunhilde, since iirc she's their version of Wonderwoman and Themyscira and Atlantis sided with the Allies but were spared because the Nazis believed they were the origin of the Aryan race, and maybe even Blitzen since if she is the same as Earth 16 Blitzen and it's not just a naming similarity then she has reasons to want more tolerance.


And well, there are undeniable similarities in their designs and appearance
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5184086-blitzen.jpg
And who knows, maybe having the woman he thinks of as his own daughter share his beliefs, or at least questioning the validity of the ones that had been ingrained into her since birth, is the push Overman needs to take more active steps to confront the issue
 
Overman feels really guilty about the genocides, but he still believes in the system enough that he continued to help them build their New World Order. He's part of the reason Earth 10 is considered to be utopic, though being able to cheat their way there with advanced Kryptonian technology certainly helped.

And people think his guilt is quaint because it happened before they were born and they're living in a paradise. For them, they have no real connection to the atrocities of the past. So why fix what to their eyes isn't broken?

Though him disappearing for a few years and coming back to be shocked by the Holocaust . . . Honestly, it feels more like he ran away because he didn't want to deal with it, and used the "vacation" to justify pretending it was some horrible revelation.

"I was only gone three years."

Even the Nazis thought it would take them 20 years. No way they crammed it all into the three years Overman was conveniently off planet. He had to have been willfully blind to it, until he couldn't take it anymore and ran away so that he could lie to himself that it couldn't be helped because he was away when it happened.

Of course it also has whatever the fuck is left of those they deemed undesirable apparently still living in ghettos in the GGR, even though letting them stay in the GGR would have been anathema to them even if they decided not to finish off the last few survivors. The survivors of the genocides should all be living a miserable, unsupported existence in Madagascar or something. Not living in the "sub-cities" of places like Metropolis.

===

I'll also say that I think Overgirl should probably know who Ernst Röhm is. While the Nazis did remove him from propaganda, I think they'd teach their youth about him as one of Hitler's victories. They kind of bragged about it as a victory over treason and degeneracy. So I think they'd continue to brag about how Hitler defeated Röhm.

What they'd probably erase is how important Röhm used to be. Hence the editing of old propaganda.

===

Also, I still don't think Earth 10's Blitzen is in any way, shape, or form related to the Blitzen in a relationship with Donner. Not least of which because Earth 10's isn't an Asian woman. She's an Aryan woman by Nazi standards. Complete with blonde hair and blue eyes.

And the Earth 10 version of Wonder Woman, Brunhilde, isn't the Wonder Woman of Themyscira. She's literally a Valkyrie sent by Odin to support the Nazis. Because Earth 10's Norse Gods think the Nazis are pretty cool.

So what happened with Themyscira is anyone's guess.
 
Odin is a pragmatic god, he may be supporting the nazis to gather things he needs in order to avoid Ragnarok. He probably doesn't even believe in aryan supremacy, just agrees with the nazis so they help him and probably to humor them. He may believe in rule by the strong, but he probably doesn't believe that one ethnicity is inherently stronger than the other.

Diana may not even exist on earth 10, or maybe never left the island.

What happened to the dead vikings that OL hit with that singularity weapon while they were fighting Oceanus?
Did they go back to Valhalla or Asgard?
If Odin wants the rest back then why doesn't he open a portal to earth and send someone to get them back?

Are Thunder and Lightning going to show up in the paragon side, and if they do will they be just meta humans like pre and post fp were, or maybe more divine like they were in Teen Titans?
I know that those two meta humans that were Savages sons when he fought Darkseid were probably the YJ version of them, but I was wondering if you have your own plans for them.
Will they show up renegade side?
 
jonasquinn said:
While Overman is an important icon for the Nazi Regime he isn't in charge, from what I can tell he doesn't want to overthrow the system, which would just cause more deaths, but rather convince people that the Purges were an unnecessary tragedy that their ancestors committed rather than something to be lauded


As for the Reichsman, they wouldn't necessarily be on his side because there are die hard Nazis among them, most notably their version of Batman, Leatherwing, but there are a few that would maybe support him, such as Donner, Underwaterman and Brunhilde, since iirc she's their version of Wonderwoman and Themyscira and Atlantis sided with the Allies but were spared because the Nazis believed they were the origin of the Aryan race, and maybe even Blitzen since if she is the same as Earth 16 Blitzen and it's not just a naming similarity then she has reasons to want more tolerance.


And well, there are undeniable similarities in their designs and appearance
450
5184086-blitzen.jpg
And who knows, maybe having the woman he thinks of as his own daughter share his beliefs, or at least questioning the validity of the ones that had been ingrained into her since birth, is the push Overman needs to take more active steps to confront the issue
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I don't think it's the same person.

Nazi-Blitzen.jpg


Note the pale skin and blonde hair.
TheMidnightRook said:
The 00's are usually called the noughties. It's a decade with a zero at the front, not a bunch of mischievious children.
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Thank you, corrected.
Darko said:
What happened to the dead vikings that OL hit with that singularity weapon while they were fighting Oceanus?

Did they go back to Valhalla or Asgard?
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No, they're still around. The ones who got hit gradually regenerated.
If Odin wants the rest back then why doesn't he open a portal to earth and send someone to get them back?
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Because this way he gets rid of Prince Jon without it being obvious that he's getting rid of Prince Jon.
Are Thunder and Lightning going to show up in the paragon side, and if they do will they be just meta humans like pre and post fp were, or maybe more divine like they were in Teen Titans?
I know that those two meta humans that were Savages sons when he fought Darkseid were probably the YJ version of them, but I was wondering if you have your own plans for them.
Will they show up renegade side?
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Two characters I know next to nothing about have little chance of making an appearance.
 
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I assume what Odin approves of is sterilizing those with disabilities or genetic disorders. Because apparently the thing Odin approves of where the Nazis are concerned is that they "cull the weak".

And when Overman is guilt ridden over the atrocities of the past, Brunhilde is disgusted by what she sees as weakness.

Oh. Huh. Hitler originally thought Overman was sent to the Nazis from the future. I wonder how long the Nazis believed Overman was what they'd eventually become.

Not that becoming like him is necessarily impossible. There's a lot of goofy comic book shit that could give them similar abilities.
 
Odin is willing to lose a skilled warrior like Jon as well as several other warriors because Jon slept with a Valkyrie...
And I thought that he was supposed to be pragmatic.
Oh well everyone has their weak points, but really he is that petty?

Also nice to know that Einharjer can survive a weaponised black hole.
 
ForeverShogo said:
Overman feels really guilty about the genocides, but he still believes in the system enough that he continued to help them build their New World Order. He's part of the reason Earth 10 is considered to be utopic, though being able to cheat their way there with advanced Kryptonian technology certainly helped.

And people think his guilt is quaint because it happened before they were born and they're living in a paradise. For them, they have no real connection to the atrocities of the past. So why fix what to their eyes isn't broken?

Though him disappearing for a few years and coming back to be shocked by the Holocaust . . . Honestly, it feels more like he ran away because he didn't want to deal with it, and used the "vacation" to justify pretending it was some horrible revelation.

"I was only gone three years."

Even the Nazis thought it would take them 20 years. No way they crammed it all into the three years Overman was conveniently off planet. He had to have been willfully blind to it, until he couldn't take it anymore and ran away so that he could lie to himself that it couldn't be helped because he was away when it happened.

Of course it also has whatever the fuck is left of those they deemed undesirable apparently still living in ghettos in the GGR, even though letting them stay in the GGR would have been anathema to them even if they decided not to finish off the last few survivors. The survivors of the genocides should all be living a miserable, unsupported existence in Madagascar or something. Not living in the "sub-cities" of places like Metropolis.
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To be fair Overman landed in 1938 and the war ended in 1956, by the time he was old enough to doubt the beliefs he'd been raised with and influential enough to do anything about it the vast majority of "degenerates" were almost certainly dead, especially with the advanced technology the Nazis would've had at their disposal

I've always assumed that at some point Overman made his distaste for it known and they stopped for a while but as soon as they knew he'd be off planet for a while they made one last push, hence the "I was gone for three years" line
 
Darko said:
Odin is willing to lose a skilled warrior like Jon as well as several other warriors because Jon slept with a Valkyrie...
And I thought that he was supposed to be pragmatic.
Oh well everyone has their weak points, but really he is that petty?
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Not like he was learning anything new where he was.
Also nice to know that Einharjer can survive a weaponised black hole.
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They can survive being near one. That was a bunt answer. Having reread the relevant part of the story there were only eight of them still on the titanic being so they probably weren't all that close to the beam
 
Mr Zoat said:
"We don't have the technology to screen like that. But we're getting off the point, unless your Earth has discovered an underlying genetic basis for homosexuality."
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Poor Paul, "we're getting off the point" is a thing people say when they are backed into a corner and know it.
 
Vaermina said:
Poor Paul, "we're getting off the point" is a thing people say when they are backed into a corner and know it.
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I mean, his point was "there's no reason to sterilize or exterminate gay people", and getting into the weeds of genetic error correction is at best adjacent to said point.

"We're getting off the point" is also something people say when they're getting off the point. :p
 
Maxx Crowley said:
"Fuck em, they're nazis." -Maxx Crowley. The tao of Crowley

"He's gonna bash your Nazi brains in with a baseball bat." (Paraphrasing) George Clooney That one movie.

At work and typing on a phone sucks. Get to your other point later dear.
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Don't call me dear, especially if you're going to put as little effort into addressing my Hardcastle comparison as you did into my pointing out the practical value of life. The lack on your part makes it plain how dear I'm not.
 
Technically it's two planets and a moon. And even then it's still supposed to be nice if you're not their idea of an undesirable.

Like, I'm reasonably sure I'd fit their genetic standards, and I'm not gay, so if I ended up on Earth 10 I probably wouldn't have to worry too much about getting stomped on by jackboots. Well, I might still be fucked just because I only know English, and English is considered a dead language on Earth 10. But I get the feeling Overman would be a good sport about multiversal travel and try to help me learn German or something if getting back home was an issue.
 
Aeess said:
The fact that entire universes are referred to by the number of their earth, should show how little those perfectly nice places matter.
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I've tried to refer to universes as 'Universe [number]', but since I'm usually talking about their Earth that Earth is 'Earth [number]'.
Flux Casey said:
How in the absolute fuck did they manage that in sixtyish years?
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They didn't. I'm chucking it. German is becoming the world's dominant language but English is still widely spoken.
 
Ganurath said:
Also, there's the whole "murder is illegal" thing to consider, as well.
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Our dear costumed vigilantes are breaking the law literally every single time they involve themselves. The team was literally created to be a black ops, hush hush, team to circumvent whatever UN rules had been laid down upon the Justice League. Rules that...really couldn't be enforced all that well anyway given that like...half the JL can crack the planet in half.

As to laws...OL just sort of does whatever the fuck he wants, even if he has to game the system.

At this point, OL has genocided an entire race of Space Nazis. Ones who committed no crimes on his planet, and were probably in the legal right with their actions as they were in control to write the laws in the first place.

He mind controlled a group of said genocided race and forced them to help him enact it. Upon releasing them he made a token offer that he pretty much knew they weren't going to take, but felt it was the thing to do. Both to perhaps make himself feel better, and on the off chance one might take it. They were then gunned down as they fruitlessly attempted to assault his position. Pretty sure OL broke a fuck ton of laws right there.

Both SI are also quite adept at setting situations up where, although he is doing something shady, in the particular spot he is in, he's in the legal clear. The quick hop and pop to get Witch Boy fucked over in China, the whole ambush with Nabu.

Then there was the group OL marooned on some distant rock someplace. Completely stripped of any sort of dignity or rights, they'll sit there in primitive squalor until they live to death. All knowing that they weren't even worth his time to kill. Cruel mercy there.

Now, I was totally on board to colony drop the Citadel, because fuck space Nazis, so it'd be rather hypocritical of me if I offered mercy to the actual Nazi that I wouldn't offer to the space Nazi.

OL had no problems whatsoever with wiping out the Citadel, mindfucking a battalion into working for him, and then watching them die. The space nazi got no mercy that day.

So why should the alternate world Nazi? Why kill aliens....but not the mostly likely attractive, human looking woman? Little bit of bias there?

Obviously because he wants to. That's why he does anything.

The Citadelions were grown in vats, and had no choice but to be what they were. He killed them. They committed no crimes on earth, and where pretty much in the legal clear on their own worlds.

Overgirl was genetically enhanced with SCIENCE! and is basically lifelong hitler youth. She has had no choice in what she is, and like the Citadel boys, has always known she is in the right. She has committed no crimes on his earth, but has engaged in Nazi work on hers, which is totally legal.

Difference?

What, they couldn't change their minds, but she might? Am I actually supposed to give a fuck here? I don't by the by. I'd of gold K'd her ass and then drug her off to Israel. Where there, my natural homosexual state would have required a lavish musical number. To the tone of Frozen's Snowman, I would have to perform "Do you want to kill a nazi?"

Or I could magic up some Holocaust victims and let them have a go. I've got family there, though I might not on Earth 16. I do...wonder, what, and who, might have been.

Last I checked, Pirates are declared enemies of all mankind the second they engage in the activity (I don't know if they still hoist a flag). Which pretty much means they are fucked no matter whose warship might see them. They get blasted down.

As I see it, nazis are the same. Just my eyes of course. But...were I to have a power ring. Well, this new Neo version would be having....troubles.

Ganurath said:
Don't call me dear, especially if you're going to put as little effort into addressing my Hardcastle comparison as you did into my pointing out the practical value of life. The lack on your part makes it plain how dear I'm not.
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This might shock and amaze you, but I actually didn't see your Hardcastle comparison till just now. I wasn't tagged, and skipped right by it.

To the point....I don't care if she hasn't committed any nazi-ing on earth 16, she has on, what was it? Earth 10? She still dies. Dies before she can get back and "purge" any other "undesirables". Of which I would fall under from either my genetic ancestry, my sexuality, and probably something religious.

Now, I don't care, but OL obviously does.

Until he doesn't. Then you get colony dropped.

I, personally, think he's being blatantly unfair simply because she looks like him (As in both humanish) and he has enough outside comic knowledge to see a possible resource. He also tortured Demon Constantine despite knowing just how much choice that creature had in what it now is (On this I may be way off point, as I don't know Demon John's full history. As I understand it, per the usual, it's purely Real John's fault.)

Now dear, darling, if you wish to continue pleading the nazi's case, feel free.

Sadly, honey, I won't be moved. Also? A quick email to my German cousins has given me the all clear when it comes to calling for the death of Nazis. No word from our shared casualties, as our necromancy is really low level (Put all our points into other skills. Fools be we), but I'm going to guess that they are totally cool with it.

Moral of the story? Don't be a nazi, kids.
 
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Ardy said:
I assume mass murder was involved
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mass murder and the forcible education and indoctrination of youth. Take them away from parents and put them in boarding school and forbid them to speak english or practice their own culture. Its been tried before, but it ended too recently to discuss.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
I, personally, think he's being blatantly unfair simply because she looks like him (As in both humanish) and he has enough outside comic knowledge to see a possible resource. He also tortured Demon Constantine despite knowing just how much choice that creature had in what it now is (On this I may be way off point, as I don't know Demon John's full history. As I understand it, per the usual, it's purely Real John's fault.)
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That's actually a really good point I hadn't considered.
 
Actually, English was seemingly not really that big before programming / the internet became a thing - when it became a useful skill for most people. On Earth 10, the entirety of the internet would be in German - and controlled by the government. Only Americans and British people spoke it, and the British were wiped out. (And Americans might have survived the war by not getting involved, but English would probably be slowly forgotten if everyone was taught German in schools and nobody was taught English.) Before the computing revolution, Latin and German were sort of the languages of universal choice (since both are used in academic studies for doctors/ archeologists)
 
Vaermina said:
The real difference is that unlike the Citadel planet, short of Deus Author Machina, Earth 10 would likely win if Paul tried to do the same to them.
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Do note, their Nazi League has not had the benefit of a minmaxing munchkin like the SI pointing out the obvious to them. Their heaviest hitter--Overman--most likely still doesn't have a radiation shield.

If Paul took it upon himself to defeat their Nazi League, I would give him fairly decent odds of winning. See his panicked one round wipe of Earth-12's League. In addition to them, there's the entire world's worth of Nazi soldiers with advanced weaponry reverse-engineered from Kryptonian tech. Those might potentially be more trouble than a handful of brightly costumed thugs whose weaknesses and capabilities he roughly knows.

That said, the same problem applies to the Syndicate world. Merely beating down the state-sponsored jackbooted superheroes would only leave a bigger mess in its wake. To properly realign the entire world with his own desires and stop them from being Nazis would be a significant undertaking he's very much not invested in. He'd win the fight, but give up on the war as a lost cause. That or deploy Best Snake and apply mass mind control and be done with it.
 
Mquz said:
Actually, English was seemingly not really that big before programming / the internet became a thing - when it became a useful skill for most people. On Earth 10, the entirety of the internet would be in German - and controlled by the government. Only Americans and British people spoke it, and the British were wiped out. (And Americans might have survived the war by not getting involved, but English would probably be slowly forgotten if everyone was taught German in schools and nobody was taught English.) Before the computing revolution, Latin and German were sort of the languages of universal choice (since both are used in academic studies for doctors/ archeologists)
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Sixty years is nowhere near enough time to kill a language as widespread as English. Okay, Britain got wiped out. America. Canada. Australia. India. To start. Sixty years is three generations. Even if the regime were to outlaw the language, there would be tens of millions of people over 40 who still learned their mother tongue while the nazis were still becoming the dominant world power. If Welsh isn't a dead language with less than a million speakers, there is no way in hell the number of English speakers could be reduced below that in sixty years.
 
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