With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chaoswind · Mar 30, 2020

Agent Orange said:
Beeline for the nearest Cerberus ~~Taco cart~~ recruitment booth? On one hand it involves dealing with human scum with delusion of competence on the other... well Miranda.

Alternately,

Do the same with the Migrant Fleet and hit on Xen? Claudia Black is Claudia Black matter the species.

There is nothing in ME that can charge the ring of a rockies lantern, he would have to assimilate a bunch of people and have the ring consume the resulting constructs for charge... And I don't know if that is a charge positive exchange.

The first thing he would have to do is pillage databases for the restricted information on military grade cybernetic implants and power armor (armiger combat insertion armor build for human specs, then start to add cybernetics, nanomachines and element zero like a transhuman amalgam of the best Alec Ryder, the cyborgs NY from multi-player and Shepard post rebirth with a few book characters as well) to give himself an edge for when the charge dies.

I wouldn't go with the flotilla quarians, they are too focused on getting their home world to use their neurons properly, if you want quarians bootie the Turians host a sizeable diaspora of quarians that abandoned the space gypsy fleet (the propaganda novela Yalí loves was made by them).

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

I don't think consuming the construct lanterns allows him to recharge his ring.

Agent Orange · Mar 30, 2020

Chaoswind said:
There is nothing in ME that can charge the ring of a rockies lantern, he would have to assimilate a bunch of people and have the ring consume the resulting constructs for charge... And I don't know if that is a charge positive exchange.

I think that's still negative charge by the standards set for this story. Assimilating people/Identity Theft still costs charge so he would still end up with less than he spent. Sybarite somehow managed to make it work with demons (thou I still don't understand how) but there's a dearth of those in Mass Effect verse. *shrug* Fallout SI made it work so I guess blowing the available charge for one-time self-enhancement would have him set on the personal power angle. Since it's Mass Effect I guess that means he'll just have to become Niftu Cal. That being said, no meta-knowledge so he'd probably waste quite a bit of charge just gathering information on upgrades.

Chaoswind said:
The first thing he would have to do is pillage databases for the restricted information on military grade cybernetic implants and power armor (armiger combat insertion armor build for human specs, then start to add cybernetics, nanomachines and element zero like a transhuman amalgam of the best Alec Ryder and Shepard with a few book characters as well) to give himself an edge for when the charge dies.

Yeah, this.

Chaoswind said:
I wouldn't go with the flotilla quarians, they are too focused on getting their home world to use their neurons properly, if you want quarians bootie the Turians host a sizeable diaspora of quarians that abandoned the space gypsy fleet (the propaganda novela Yalí loves was made by them).

I'm sorry, I stopped reading anything after 'I wouldn't go with the flotilla quarians' because that would mean no Claudia Black's voice.

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

1st April
23:31 GMT -6

The boom tube closes behind us and I open a new one to her laboratory almost immediately.

"I realise that you're a little fraught, but you should probably switch the time ratio-."

"Yeah." She trots forward. "Yeah."

I follow her through, and… Looks like she didn't clear away the conjured ropes she used to bind Twilight. Sunset's horn glows as she points it at the inscriptions trapping the Earth 16 end of the portal in place, a ripple of power washing over it.

"There. One to one. Circe will only be out by about a minute."

I pick up the remains of the bondage gear in a construct.

"What happened with this? And Twilight's tour?"

"Fifteen to one, remember?" She levitates it out of my construct and places in it a thaumically isolating crate. "I'd barely gotten her untied before we felt Luna's magic through the mirror. I guess I'll… Give Twilight a tour some other time."

"So.. you're… Alright with Twilight?"

"Yeaah..? It's not like I thought I was Celestia's only student ever or anything. And… If we're right about her planning on using me to help Luna and… She didn't tell Twilight more than she told me… None of this… Was Twilight's fault." She gives her head a small shake. "And I got what I wanted anyway…"

"Anger isn't really rational like that."

"No. No, it's-. She's fine." She snorts quietly. "And maybe I can help open her mind to… Things that Celestia won't teach her."

I nod. "Like bondage."

She makes a small horse-splutter noise. "Not according to a rumour I heard-. That was you."

I grin and nod. "Not the bondage part specifically, but I told a few guards that alicornism was sexually transmitted."

Sunset looks at me for a moment, head tilted slightly to the right. "That's… A horribly you thing to say."

"Thank you. And I hope you're not going to have a story about you creeping into Celestia's room with a-."

"No! No, Grayven, that's-. Gross. And… And disgusting and it wouldn't even have worked." She shudders. "Uugh. I feel like I need a shower."

"Slight problem with that."

She frowns, then looks down at herself. "I'll just.. use the g-troll shower. They.. have one, right?"

"Yes, but… Remember we're not actually that tall, just… Bigger than the other ponies."

"Speak for yourself. I think I'm as tall like this as I am as a human."

We stand in her laboratory for a few moments.

"So… Celestia?"

She waves her head from left to right.

"I don't.. know..? I don't know what I wanted, I don't know what I was expecting… I don't know."

I nod, and lay down on the floor.

"Okay, so, what did the two of you talk about?"

"I, um. We.. started with… Just.. the first time I was in the garden. I didn't really remember it. Wasn't really paying any attention to anything that wasn't her."

"How long ago..?"

"I don't know. A few weeks after I went to live in Canterlot? I grew up on the other side of the country and I was getting a bit overwhelmed with everything. We just.. chatted. Which was weird, because-. We don't exactly deify Celestia, but if you don't live close enough to Canterlot to actually see her, she's kind of…"

"A sort of living myth."

Sunset nods. "And not like Superman, or.. you. We don't have TV or radio. We haven't even had colour photography for all that long. And suddenly she's there and talking to me."

"You left your friends behind." She looks at me with an interrogative frown. "When you moved."

"Oh. Yeah. No one I was super close to, but… Yeah."

I nod. No local friends, not much in common…

"Did the other foals at the school mostly come from Canterlot?"

"Mostly from Canterlot. Canterlot's a mostly-unicorn city, the centre of government and.. the.. second?" She thinks for a moment, then nods. "Second most populous city. It's not that surprising."

But she was an outsider, and amongst the scions of powerful families she was selected for particular privilege. And she outperformed them all. Would that have discouraged ponies from befriending her, in the early days, before she got out of the habit? Don't know. And it's probably not relevant.

"And then?"

"She… Said that she hadn't banished me, and that she just wanted me to get some more experience outside of the palace before I started studying again. And that she was looking for a student because of Luna but that wasn't why she picked me, or why we had the relationship that we did."

"Do you believe her?"

"… Yeah. I mean, even if she didn't mean to when she started teaching me, I don't think-. She wouldn't have put up with me as long as she did if-. Once it was pretty clear that I wasn't going to be using the Elements."

"And did hearing that make you feel any better?"

"I don't know-. No. No, it didn't. Because it means that I didn't need to run through the mirror. There are plenty of other libraries in Equestria, especially in Canterlot. And I could-. Making friends wouldn't be that bad?"

"Would you have made friends?"

"No." She doesn't hesitate. "I was convinced that Celestia was holding out on me, because she was. I'd have kept looking. And I told her that, and wanted to know why she lied to me. And she-. She said that it was because I wasn't ready. I was sitting there.. as an alicorn, and she was telling me I wasn't ready."

"Huh?"

"Oh, she thinks I cheated. That I found some sort of.. nearly dark magic way around the 'natural'… Healthy way to become an alicorn. I think she wanted me to… I don't know, turn myself back, go back to Equestria and try learning what she was trying to teach me in the first place. And I wanted to know why she thought I'd want to, and she just-. She had no idea why I wouldn't. Like she literally couldn't understand what I was saying. And then I tried asking about all the stuff she obviously got wrong when she was teaching me, all the stuff she-. Should have done differently if she'd wanted me to end up like she said she wanted me to. I mean, if she wanted me to make friends so badly why didn't she say that instead of showing me the Mirror!"

And she's crying, snot running down her muzzle.

"Why-? And then she just-"

I raise my right wing.

"-couldn't understand why I thought she was part of the problem!"

She dives into my side, pressing herself up against me and sobbing into my barrel as I wrap my wing around her.

"Why doesn't she get it?!"

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

Chaoswind said:
There is nothing in ME that can charge the ring of a rockies lantern, he would have to assimilate a bunch of people and have the ring consume the resulting constructs for charge... And I don't know if that is a charge positive exchange.

The first thing he would have to do is pillage databases for the restricted information on military grade cybernetic implants and power armor (armiger combat insertion armor build for human specs, then start to add cybernetics, nanomachines and element zero like a transhuman amalgam of the best Alec Ryder, the cyborgs NY from multi-player and Shepard post rebirth with a few book characters as well) to give himself an edge for when the charge dies.

I wouldn't go with the flotilla quarians, they are too focused on getting their home world to use their neurons properly, if you want quarians bootie the Turians host a sizeable diaspora of quarians that abandoned the space gypsy fleet (the propaganda novela Yalí loves was made by them).

I thought that most of the upgrades Alliance marines got were genetic? Regardless, that's just going to make him a slightly optimised version of something that already exists in the setting. Assimilating a reaper and sharing its knowledge with the Geth Entire is a far better use of an orange ring's abilities.

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

'plenty of other' not 'plent of other'

'holding out on' not 'holding on out'

BlueAnime88 · Mar 30, 2020

"I was convinced that Celestia was holding on out me, because she was

out on me?

Cuchulin · Mar 30, 2020

Seems like Sunbutt is just to used to being "right" and having all the answers.

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

Spend a thousand years with everyone practically considering you to a infallible god and you would find it difficult to consider yourself wrong.

Vaermina · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"Why doesn't she get it?!"

I am going to guess the same reason why you don't get it.

Cuchulin · Mar 30, 2020

Darko said:
Spend a thousand years with everyone practically considering you to a infallible god and you would find it difficult to consider yourself wrong.

Minor miscalculations at most, she hasn't made a real mistake in over a thousand years.

Awkward · Mar 30, 2020

Cuchulin said:
Minor miscalculations at most, she hasn't made a real mistake in over a thousand years.

Ehem, Crysalis, Discord, Tirek, need I go on?

Ganurath · Mar 30, 2020

Cuchulin said:
Minor miscalculations at most, she hasn't made a real mistake in over a thousand years.

She rules an empire; minor miscalculations can ruin lives.

TheMidnightRook · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I thought that most of the upgrades Alliance marines got were genetic?

They are, with the exception of Biotic Amps. IIRC there were a few offhand mentions of replacement limbs being availble, but the only factions shown to be into heavy cybernetic enhancement were Cerberus... and the Reapers.

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
1st April
23:31 GMT -6

The boom tube closes behind us and I open a new one to her laboratory almost immediately.

"I realise that you're a little fraught, but you should probably switch the time ratio-."

Ah, good of him to think of it. Luna might have been just a little put out if he didn't return when he said he would...

"Yeah." She trots forward. "Yeah."

I follow her through, and… Looks like she didn't clear away the conjured ropes she used to bind Twilight. Sunset's horn glows as she points it at the inscriptions trapping the Earth 16 end of the portal in place, a ripple of power washing over it.

"There. One to one. Circe will only be out by about a minute."

Much better. No need to worry about disappearing for days or months.

I pick up the remains of the bondage gear in a construct.

"What happened with this? And Twilight's tour?"

"Fifteen to one, remember?" She levitates it out of my construct and places in it a thaumically isolating crate. "I'd barely gotten her untied before we felt Luna's magic through the mirror. I guess I'll… Give Twilight a tour some other time."

At least she doesn't plan to cut all ties to Equestria.

"So.. you're… Alright with Twilight?"

"Yeaah..? It's not like I thought I was Celestia's only student ever or anything. And… If we're right about her planning on using me to help Luna and… She didn't tell Twilight more than she told me… None of this… Was Twilight's fault." She gives her head a small shake. "And I got what I wanted anyway…"

It doesn't feel like you expected it would, does it?

"Anger isn't really rational like that."

"No. No, it's-. She's fine." She snorts quietly. "And maybe I can help open her mind to… Things that Celestia won't teach her."

I nod. "Like bondage."

Well, I don't really think Twilight's into mares... And they only met a day or two ago.

She makes a small horse-splutter noise. "Not according to a rumour I heard-. That was you."

I grin and nod. "Not the bondage part specifically, but I told a few guards that alicornism was sexually transmitted."

Sunset looks at me for a moment, head tilted slightly to the right. "That's… A horribly you thing to say."

Well, he is an incorrigible troll. I doubt that rumour will go away anytime soon, no matter what any of the alicorns say. Just imagine the resurgence if Shining Armour gets upgraded...

"Thank you. And I hope you're not going to have a story about you creeping into Celestia's room with a-."

"No! No, Grayven, that's-. Gross. And… And disgusting and it wouldn't even have worked." She shudders. "Uugh. I feel like I need a shower."

Just on the 'half-plus-seven' scale alone, that's nasty.

"Slight problem with that."

She frowns, then looks down at herself. "I'll just.. use the g-troll shower. They.. have one, right?"

A cubicle design for beings that resemble ten-foot-cubed blocks of muscle? Spacious, certainly.

"Yes, but… Remember we're not actually that tall, just… Bigger than the other ponies."

"Speak for yourself. I think I'm as tall like this as I am as a human."

So, not that tall. Kind of average-sized, really.

We stand in her laboratory for a few moments.

"So… Celestia?"

Get comfy, this could take a while...

She waves her head from left to right.

"I don't.. know..? I don't know what I wanted, I don't know what I was expecting… I don't know."

You never really stopped to think about what came after your successful alicornhood. How.. teenager of you.

I nod, and lay down on the floor.

"Okay, so, what did the two of you talk about?"

"I, um. We.. started with… Just.. the first time I was in the garden. I didn't really remember it. Wasn't really paying any attention to anything that wasn't her."

She does tend to draw all the attention, doesn't she?

"How long ago..?"

"I don't know. A few weeks after I went to live in Canterlot? I grew up on the other side of the country and I was getting a bit overwhelmed with everything. We just.. chatted. Which was weird, because-. We don't exactly deify Celestia, but if you don't live close enough to Canterlot to actually see her, she's kind of…"

"A sort of living myth."

Since you never saw her mundane side. All those things people do when they're alone, or think they are...

Sunset nods. "And not like Superman, or.. you. We don't have TV or radio. We haven't even had colour photography for all that long. And suddenly she's there and talking to me."

"You left your friends behind." She looks at me with an interrogative frown. "When you moved."

I doubt any of them would have gotten into the same school. Not if Sunset was as big a prodigy as everything makes her out to be.

"Oh. Yeah. No one I was super close to, but… Yeah."

I nod. No local friends, not much in common…

Well, that's going into creepy places... I don't want to say 'grooming', but...

"Did the other foals at the school mostly come from Canterlot?"

"Mostly from Canterlot. Canterlot's a mostly-unicorn city, the centre of government and.. the.. second?" She thinks for a moment, then nods. "Second most populous city. It's not that surprising."

Manehattan being the first, of course?

But she was an outsider, and amongst the scions of powerful families she was selected for particular privilege. And she outperformed them all. Would that have discouraged ponies from befriending her, in the early days, before she got out of the habit? Don't know. And it's probably not relevant.

Oh, I suspect that estimation is very, very wrong... I can see resentment being a thing, maybe some social isolation...

"And then?"

"She… Said that she hadn't banished me, and that she just wanted me to get some more experience outside of the palace before I started studying again. And that she was looking for a student because of Luna but that wasn't why she picked me, or why we had the relationship that we did."

Unfortunately, Sunbutt, how was Sunset supposed to know that? To her, all she saw was an upset mentor and the threat of being sent away from the place that had everything she needed to achieve her dream...

"Do you believe her?"

"… Yeah. I mean, even if she didn't mean to when she started teaching me, I don't think-. She wouldn't have put up with me as long as she did if-. One it was pretty clear that I wasn't going to be using the Elements."

How can you be sure of that? How do you know she didn't come to care for you for yourself?

"And did hearing that make you feel any better?"

"I don't know-. No. No, it didn't. Because it means that I didn't need to run through the mirror. There are plent of other libraries in Equestria, especially in Canterlot. And I could-. Making friends wouldn't be that bad?"

But you were upset, and upset teenagers do stupid things...

"Would you have made friends?"

"No." She doesn't hesitate. "I was convinced that Celestia was holding on out me, because she was. I'd have kept looking. And I told her that, and wanted to know why she lied to me. And she-. She said that it was because I wasn't ready. I was sitting there.. as an alicorn, and she was telling me I wasn't ready."

Dammit, Sunbutt... <slow facepalm>

"Huh?"

"Oh, she thinks I cheated. That I found some sort of.. nearly dark magic way around the 'natural'… Healthy way to become an alicorn. I think she wanted me to… I don't know, turn myself back, go back to Equestria and try learning what she was trying to teach me in the first place. And I wanted to know why she thought I'd want to, and she just-. She had no idea why I wouldn't. Like she literally couldn't understand what I was saying. And then I tried asking about all the stuff she obviously got wrong when she was teaching me, all the stuff she-. Should have done differently if she'd wanted me to end up like she said she wanted me to. I mean, if she wanted me to make friends so badly why didn't she say that instead of showing me the Mirror!"

Goddammit, both of you... Do we need Twilight to tie both of you down and make you actually talk to each other? Because I can see it coming down to the Princess of Friendship taking a personal hand.. er, hoof.

And she's crying, snot running down her muzzle.

"Why-? And then she just-"

I raise my right wing.

"-couldn't understand why I thought she was part of the problem!"

Yep, Grayven is a good father... Or uncle, in this case...

She dives into my side, pressing herself up against me and sobbing into my barrel as I wrap my wing around her.

"Why doesn't she get it?!"

Might need to let her cry herself out, then once she's got herself under control again, start talking about it...

That bit about 'cheating'... Celestia needs to get it into her head, her way is not the only way, and may not be the best way for everyone... That might go a long way to settling this disagreement...

...One it was pretty clear...

...Once it was pretty clear...

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

Darko said:
'plenty of other' not 'plent of other'
'holding out on' not 'holding on out'

Thank you, corrected.

TheEyes · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I thought that most of the upgrades Alliance marines got were genetic? Regardless, that's just going to make him a slightly optimised version of something that already exists in the setting. Assimilating a reaper and sharing its knowledge with the Geth Entire is a far better use of an orange ring's abilities.

Genetic engineering improvements on what's naturally available is highly illegal in Citadel space (that's why Miranda's creation was such a no-no, for example). Ostensibly this was passed to prevent a Gattaca effect but more likely it's because the Asari have already been genetically tuned (by the Protheans), which their ruling class knew about because they had a Prothean Beacon on Thessia that they hid from the galaxy (also illegal) and don't want to give up the advantage. As such the genetic "enhancements" that Alliance marines are more along the lines of fixing deformities than actual enhancements. The big exception to that "no genetically engineered anything" law is medi-gel, which humanity apparently created before the First Contact War and was grandfathered in because it was deemed too useful to outlaw (and because the Asari could use it themselves).

Alliance personnel haven't yet gotten into extensive cybernetic enhancement, although apparently Turians, Salarians and Quarians go for it. Cerberus apparently does a lot of cybernetics to try to keep up with the xenos, and in ME2 Mordin does a lot of cybernetic enhancement for the crew if you give him the resources for it.

It's important to remember that, in ME, generally the Systems Alliance is playing catch-up with the rest of the galaxy: for all that the games made Shepard out to be this once-in-forever superhero the rest of humanity was desperately trying to build itself into relevance by capitalizing on a couple of very lucky circumstances:

They happened to luck into enough eezo from the Prothean cache on Mars and a few lucky finds that they were able to build Carriers, which spent eezo like water in the form of massed disrupter torpedoes to take down a couple Turian dreadnoughts during the First Contact War. It worked because to any other race this would be madness; it's like killing your enemies by shooting them with bullets made out of platinum.
They happen to look like mammalian Asari; in particular, their males happen to look like the male version of Asari, after the Asari have spend two thousand years manipulating the galaxy to find the Asari form the epitome of beauty. The Alliance's biggest source of revenue is "cultural exports"; that's supposed to be a euphemism.
Their Mass Relay hub happens to connect almost directly to the Traverse, which the Batarians want to expand into, right when the Council wanted a buffer state to serve as a foil for Batarian aggression. Better to let a bunch of aggressive, murderous monkeys get enslaved by those four-eyed monsters than a race that people care about like the Volus, right?

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, I don't really think Twilight's into mares... And they only met a day or two ago.

Literal bibliophile jokes aside, I don't think that Twilight's preference is canonically established.

You never really stopped to think about what came after your successful alicornhood. How.. teenager of you.

No, she considered how it would affect her professional development quite thoroughly.

...Once it was pretty clear...

Thank you, corrected.

l---erddad---l · Mar 30, 2020

Was behind for a while, but caught up and greatly enjoyed almost all of it. I don't know how the rest of the community took it, but I felt that the way Paul, and you, approached Overgirl was rational and well-thought out, both from Watsonian and Doylist. Furthermore, while I have strong feelings about many of your feelings, it's a nice reminder that people can have radically different opinions but attempt to understand other peoples opinions (I'm talking about Zoat here).

Mr Zoat said:
He clicks his fingers and doesn't disappear. His eyes widen far beyond the borders of his face and he starts frantically clicking his fingers.

The funny thing is, this is just a straight-up bad matchup. Discord is a good example of having a powerful ability in terms of what his power is without actually having the power in terms of, I guess energy?, to back it up to the same level he tends to punch at. He can pretend to be omnipotent despite just being a Lord of Chaos.

I always point to Type/Moon's Maxwell's Demon as an example of this, what with Devil's Proof making him absolutely immune to anything that can't conceptually kill unkillable things, but if you have that concept than it's nearly effortless to beat him because he's super weak.

Mr Zoat said:
Pinkie twitches, then resolutely shakes her head.

Pinkie resisting answering the call so Party Popper can do it. This is the REAL Pinkie Pie, rather than the Memelord!Deadpool!Butit'sPinkiePie

Cuchulin said:
Minor miscalculations at most, she hasn't made a real mistake in over a thousand years.

Ganurath said:
She rules an empire; minor miscalculations can ruin lives.

2 parts here.

One, minor miscalculations usually refers to thinks that were reasonable but in hindsight should have been approached differently, whereas mistakes you had the better thing in front of you if only you thought it better.

Second off, any mistakes she's made has likely been mistaken (heh) to be minor miscalculations for the same reason that all plotters and schemers make that misunderstanding. That being, when you're manipulating an entire nation, it's hard to keep track of everything and thus problems are more likely to arise from things beyond your control. Having a supposed no-mistake-for-1000-years record just means she's going to be less proactive at not making them, since what she's currently doing is working.

Mr Zoat said:
Literal bibliophile jokes aside, I don't think that Twilight's preference is canonically established.

She's either bi or straight, since she has expressed interest in males, both human and pony.

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

Renegade is, or was, pretty tall as a human, before getting Venom.

I think he was around six feet in height.

Discord could potentially take the renegade in a fight and win, assuming the renegade lacks at least the Sword of the Fallen.

When the renegade considered fighting Mordru he was worried about losing.

Discord ran away because he knew the renegade killed four other Lords of Chaos and if he saw what the blade was and felt the magic in it then he would bolt it out of there.

Renegade may know some tricks now that allow him to fight Lords more easily, but if Discord really tried to attack him and he lacked the Sword, then I'm pretty sure Discord could have won, or at least done some serious damage.

Handlewithcare · Mar 30, 2020

Sunbutt has done things her way for a thousand years, that tends to settle a persons viewpoint.

And to be fair, Celestia has done her best to not become a Goddess and to not believe her own hype.

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

Darko said:
Renegade is, or was, pretty tall as a human, before getting Venom.

I think he was around six feet in height.

6'2

l---erddad---l said:
She's either bi or straight, since she has expressed interest in males, both human and pony.

The only person I remember her expressing an interest in was human Flash Sentry, and... I prefer other explanations.

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

Celestia technically is a goddess.

Or well a demigoddess, seeing as the New Gods have been referred as being demigods by several people, common sense Kaldur for one, and they are metaphysically strong being in a physical body, unlike Old Gods who are pure arcane energy.

Though I'm pretty sure they can become far more powerful than any demigod.

Although yeah, Celestia probably tried to avoid thinking of herself as how most people think gods are.
That being infallible beings who can't do wrong.

Her success in this may not be all that great however.

l---erddad---l · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
The only person I remember her expressing an interest in was human Flash Sentry, and... I prefer other explanations.

I remember that when she went to the pony world again, she saw pony Flash Sentry and was still interested.

Regardless, there is a well-known phenomenon where some people aren't sexually attracted to others until after getting to know and becoming romantically attracted to someone's personality. I would not be surprised at all if ponies didn't consider sex as important to deciding who is attractive in a relationship, so they might have a preferred sex but not being the preferred sex isn't a deal breaker.

EDIT: Your theory still holds up, in terms of someone who was completely uninterested in romantic attachments turning into... Well, what Twilight turned into. In that case, it might work both ways (going human to pony is just as shocking to your body as pony to human).

Simonbob · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"Why doesn't she get it?!"

I'm still wondering just how many times Celestia's seen students die trying to do what Sunset did.

That's the key, I think. Over 1000 years. How many dark monster Alicorns? How many students blowing themseves to bits?

How many side effects that went horrificly wrong?

I suspect that's really the secret. So, now I wonder if the method Sunset used, in classic comic style, is going to screw with her head?

Eh, we'll see.

Idkusername · Mar 30, 2020

Simonbob said:
I suspect that's really the secret. So, now I wonder if the method Sunset used, in classic comic style, is going to screw with her head?

If she knows or suspects mind altering side effects and didn't directly tell Sunset, who boy...

Plus, Cadenza doesn't show any changes in behaviour, and I understand that it's the same method, except on purpose and with precautions, instead of an accident.

Mr Zoat · Mar 30, 2020

Simonbob said:
I'm still wondering just how many times Celestia's seen students die trying to do what Sunset did.

That's the key, I think. Over 1000 years. How many dark monster Alicorns? How many students blowing themseves to bits?

How many side effects that went horrificly wrong?

I suspect that's really the secret. So, now I wonder if the method Sunset used, in classic comic style, is going to screw with her head?

Eh, we'll see.

While Celestia hasn't noticed the similarity consciously yet, what Sunset did is a lot like what Stygian was trying to do.

Darko · Mar 30, 2020

There was this fic by Alara Rogers where Discord says that before Twilight there were four other Alicorns

One was a Alicorn of Nature, one of Righteous Wrath, one of Desolation and one of Honor.

The Nature one killed herself to return to the cycle of life and death.
The Righteous Wrath one died in a war.
The Desolation one is still alive, but spends time in the Badlands.

As for the Honor one, well that one considered himself superior to everyone, including Celestia, because he embodies Honor, so tried to take over and failed.

If there were other Alicorns after Celestia and Luna and before Twilight, and this happened, then Celestia wanting her student to be mature and emotionally healthy before getting all that power makes sense.

Sunset really seems like the type that would try to take over, at least before she matured a bit under the renegade, even if she acknowledges that she isn't fit to rule, her arrogance would get in the way and many will suffer.

Celestia may have failed, but this would explain why she tried in the first place

JerkRyanShadowWanker · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"Why doesn't she get it?!

She's a thousand year old immortal who is basicly worshipped, her mind set is probably so drastically different from the norm that she only passes for pony by being one physically.

TheMidnightRook · Mar 30, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
The only person I remember her expressing an interest in was human Flash Sentry, and... I prefer other explanations.

Do alternate universe counterparts count? Because Sci-Twi and Timber Spruce had a bit of a thing going on in Legend of Everfree. And Princess Twilight did show signs of being attracted to the pony version of Flash at the end of Equestria Girls.

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