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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

On the idea of Red getting pissed at Overgirl . . . Would it matter? Going by his showing against Glory, I get the distinct impression that Red Paul would get his shit kicked in by Overgirl if he actually went after her.
 
On the idea of Red getting pissed at Overgirl . . . Would it matter? Going by his showing against Glory, I get the distinct impression that Red Paul would get his shit kicked in by Overgirl if he actually went after her.
Unlike Glory, I very much doubt that Overgirl is immune to red acid vomit, amongst other things.
 
Repetition (part 15)
13th August 1997
08:52 GMT +2


"Ah, hallo?"

The woman who-. Doesn't.. actually look a great deal like either myself or my mother looks around, her eyes widening slightly as she sees me floating in the air above her. I.. think she looks like Aunt Katarin, but between her age and my kryptonian genetic modifications-. I should have realised that becoming part-Karl would change the way I look.

The two people she was talking to are staring as well, but I'm sure that the way I'm staring at.. me makes it obvious who I'm-.

Why are they smoking? It's a degenerate habit! Yes, I knew that without-. Without the social changes the National Socialist German Workers' Party made, some practices which-. I saw that on Earth 16. But seeing myself behave like that is… Worse. I understand that someone who… Had not grown up to regard preservation of the strength and purity of the race as a noble pursuit might.. become involved with other races. But why would any person wilfully poison themself like that?

"… Yes? Can I help you?"

I drop down to.. just above pavement level. The other two people are smoking as well. Are they being shunned by their peers? I can't see any armband.

"You are Angelika Köhler?"

"That.. was my maiden name. I'm Angelika Becker now." She smiles. "I have been for a while."

Married, with children. Yes.

"And your parents were Peter and Gabriele, from Danzig?"

"I don't think we're supposed to call it that." For some reason she is staring at the area around me. "How.. are you doing that?"

"Alien genetics which allow me to generate a biological force field."

She chuckles. "Aliens?"

I purse my lips and blow, the sudden wind extinguishing her cigarette. And freezing most of it. Her face falls in surprise, prompting her to raise the cigarette so that she can take a closer look. She then squeezes it between her thumb and forefinger, and watches as frost formed from the water vapour in the air around it begins to appear.

"My God."

"I think that the proper answer is: 'no, but people do make that mistake sometimes'." I land a short distance in front of her. "I could also demonstrate my strength, but… I would have to break something."

"What-?" She lowers her hand. "Who are you?"

"I'm you. A.. different version of you. From a parallel universe."

"Oh. I.. don't really know what to say." She looks me over. "I don't remember ever looking that good. Is that the… Alien genetics as well?"

"Yes, and an active lifestyle. Mostly the genetics."

"So… What-? Why are you here?"

Perhaps… Best not to mention the actual reason.

"I wanted to find out what my life would have been like if things.. had gone a little differently. I age only very slowly, but I've never married. I also can't have children."

The.. older version of me chuckles nervously as her co-smokers continue to stare.

"Do you want to borrow mine for a little while?"

"I.. do not think that I will have… Time. But you are happy? With the life you have lived? Working-" I look up at the Kirow Ardelt GmbH sign. "-here?"

"I…" She shakes her head. "Suppose? I haven't had another life to compare it to. Is that why you wanted to talk to me?"

"Yes." No. "And… In this country?"

Another chuckle. "As opposed to where? Poland?"

"The Greater German Empire."

One of the observers hisses air in through his teeth, while my doppelgänger looks.. slightly nervous. Not.. afraid, but I can hear as her heart rate increases and see as the increasing flow of blood to her muscles causes a change in her body temperature.

"You're a..?"

"A National Socialist, yes. I am known as Overgirl. Which is… I understand that women are encouraged to have a greater role in the workforce on… Earths where the National Socialists were defeated. I have.. struggled to reconcile what.. the Party says is the proper role for women with how I actually live."

"And-?"

And now there's fear. A pure-blooded German who was.. afraid of a movement devoted to acting in the interests of her and her people.

"My adoptive father… He loathes it. The things he is expected to believe, expected to do. What he did for the Empire when he was too young to question it. He has tried to raise his concerns in public on a few occasions, but no one is listening. I thought-. I always thought that… Yes, that period of our history was violent, but it paved the way to something better. But I look around…"

I do just that, using what little temporal energy I retained from Time Trapper to see through the objects which would usually stop my vision. Not… Peaceful; this is after all a city during the morning rush hour. But at peace. Perhaps… Lacking the grandeur that my Leipzig possesses, but a fine city in its own right.

"It was all lies. It was all lies. We could have lost the Second Great War and everything would have been fine anyway. We could have just not.. fought it at all."

"Yes, that-" She nods vigorously. "-would have been much better."

It is as if some great… Knot has unravelled inside me. Not a knot of rope, but a knot that might be tied in a balloon. When you untie it, everything just.. flies out and.. nothing is left inside.

It's all…

It was all…

I barely feel it as my other self cautiously pulls me into a maternal hug, the fact that time travel has made her younger than me seeming irrelevant.

It must be so much worse for Karl. He actually-. And he stayed strong for-. For those parts of what he believed that were not… Lies. And for me. And…

This is so much more than.. a few little.. lies, to.. ease the minds of the public and not distract them from-.

"How did-." I pull out of her grip a little. "How did Germany..? Stop being a nation of National Socialists?"

"We lost the war. There were trials for the people most directly involved in what the National Socialists did. And ever since then we have been reminded of everything they did so that we never forget it. I don't think that would work in a world where Germany won the war. I think your people would probably learn the wrong lessons."

"Yes. I did. And I have more reason to question things than most."

I… I wipe my eyes. I breathe in slowly, then breathe out.

"I think-."

"Angelika, what the heck are you playing at?!"

I look around and-. Orange Paul has finished with the problems Red Paul was creating.

"I… Needed to talk to her."

He frowns at me and.. her.

"After Time Trapper specifically told you not to?" He shakes his head. "Come on. We're leaving. Hopefully, Krona won't pick up anything."

His ring blinks, his face falls, and he grabs me with a construct tether and we vanish.
 
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I realize things that are at stake right now, but I got a really strong urge to fecking strangle OL at the end of that chapter and I am honestly at a loss as to why?

Because we just saw a character a significant portion of the readers hated get some much needed character development that will allow her to get rid of her insane beliefs and he just ruined her emotional moment despite the fact that he had been trying to get her to do that.
 
13th August 1997
08:52 GMT +2


"Ah, hallo?"

The woman who-. Doesn't.. actually look a great deal like either myself or my mother looks around, her eyes widening slightly as she sees me floating in the air above her. I.. think she looks like Aunt Katarin, but between her age and my kryptonian genetic modifications-. I should have realised that becoming part-Karl would change the way I look.
Amazing to see where another path would take you, isn't it? Everyone has moments like that, wondering what their life would be like if they'd made different choices, had different opportunities... Overgirl simply has the chance to do so here...

The two people she was talking to are staring as well, but I'm sure that the way I'm staring at.. me makes it obvious who I'm-.

Why are they smoking? It's a degenerate habit! Yes, I knew that without-. Without the social changes the National Socialist German Workers' Party made, some practices which-. I saw that on Earth 16. But seeing myself behave like that is… Worse. I understand that someone who… Had not grown up to regard preservation of the strength and purity of the race as a noble pursuit might.. become involved with other races. But why would any person wilfully poison themself like that?
Not even touching that question with a fifteen foot pole (because ten feet isn't long enough.)

"… Yes? Can I help you?"

I drop down to.. just above pavement level. The other two people are smoking as well. Are they being shunned by their peers? I can't see any armband.
It's called a smoke break. Something she's probably never seen before...

"You are Angelika Köhler?"

"That.. was my maiden name. I'm Angelika Becker now." She smiles. "I have been for a while."

Married, with children. Yes.
A path Angelika can't take. At least the latter part..

"And your parents were Peter and Gabriele, from Danzig?"

"I don't think we're supposed to call it that." For some reason she is staring at the area around me. "How.. are you doing that?"
Remember, folks, most of the Buffyverse is entirely like our own world, as improbable as it sounds...

"Alien genetics which allow me to generate a biological force field."

She chuckles. "Aliens?"
It sounds crazy, yes...

I purse my lips and blow, the sudden wind extinguishing her cigarette. And freezing most of it. Her face falls in surprise, prompting her to raise the cigarette so that she can take a closer look. She then squeezes it between her thumb and forefinger, and watches as frost formed from the water vapour in the air around it begins to appear.

"My God."
"Just like in the comics..."

"I think that the proper answer is: 'no, but people do make that mistake sometimes'." I land a short distance in front of her. "I could also demonstrate my strength, but… I would have to break something."

"What-?" She lowers her hand. "Who are you?"

"I'm you. A.. different version of you. From a parallel universe."
Wow, not sugar-coating it at all. luckily she seems too shocked to disbelieve it...

"Oh. I.. don't really know what to say." She looks me over. "I don't remember ever looking that good. Is that the… Alien genetics as well?"

"Yes, and an active lifestyle. Mostly the genetics."
Kryptonians: hardbodies to a fault. Designer genetics for the augmented win.

"So… What-? Why are you here?"

Perhaps… Best not to mention the actual reason.

"I wanted to find out what my life would have been like if things.. had gone a little differently. I age only very slowly, but I've never married. I also can't have children."
The road not taken... Or in her case, taken for her.

The.. older version of me chuckles nervously as her co-smokers continue to stare.

"Do you want to borrow mine for a little while?"
Ha! Teenagers, I bet.

"I.. do not think that I will have… Time. But you are happy? With the life you have lived? Working-" I look up at the Kirow Ardelt GmbH sign. "-here?"

"I…" She shakes her head. "Suppose? I haven't had another life to compare it to. Is that why you wanted to talk to me?"
True, it'd be hard to say whether you're happy with your life, not having known anything else...

"Yes." No. "And… In this country?"

Another chuckle. "As opposed to where? Poland?"
Here it comes...

"The Greater German Empire."

One of the observers hisses air in through his teeth, while my doppelgänger looks.. slightly nervous. Not.. afraid, but I can hear as her heart rate increases and see as the increasing flow of blood to her muscles causes a change in her body temperature.
Yeah, letting them know you're a Nazi ("National Socialist.") is probably not the best idea...

"You're a..?"

"A National Socialist, yes. I am known as Overgirl. Which is… I understand that women are encouraged to have a greater role in the workforce on… Earths where the National Socialists were defeated. I have.. struggled to reconcile what.. the Party says in the proper role for women with how I actually live."
Yay for hypocrisy. Boo for personal stress.

"And-?"

And now there's fear. A pure-blooded German who was.. afraid of a movement devoted to acting in the interests of her and her people.
Or against those they deemed 'unworthy'. Yeah, really not the best idea...

"My adoptive father… He loathes it. The things he is expected to believe, expected to do. What he did for the Empire when he was too young to question it. He has tried to raise his concerns in public on a few occasions, but no one is listening. I thought-. I always thought that… Yes, that period of our history was violent, but it paved the way to something better. But I look around…"
After all, why would those in charge want to change things that benefit them? If she makes it home, perhaps a little political upheaval is in the cards...

I do just that, using what little temporal energy I retained from Time Trapper to see through the objects which would usually stop my vision. Not… Peaceful; this is after all a city during the morning rush hour. But at peace. Perhaps… Lacking the grander that my Leipzig possesses, but a fine city in its own right.
Every place has its own charms... Some are simply harder to see than others...

"It was all lies. It was all lies. We could have lost the Second Great War and everything would have been fine anyway. We could have just not.. fought it at all."

"Yes, that-" She nods vigorously. "-would have been much better."
And out it comes. All her fears and stress at seeing the hypocrisy of her world, contrasted by this and Earth 16... How could she not be having a crisis of faith?

It is as if some great… Knot has unravelled inside me. Not a knot of rope, but a knot that might be tied in a balloon. When you untie it, everything just.. flies out and.. nothing is left inside.

It's all…
Oh, boy. These are tripping all kind of Death Flags for me...

It was all…

I barely feel it as my other self cautiously pulls me into a maternal hug, the fact that time travel has made her younger than me seeming irrelevant.
She's a good person. When you see someone in that sort of pain, you don't even think about hesitating to comfort them...

It must be so much worse for Karl. He actually-. And he stayed strong for-. For those parts of what he believed that were not… Lies. And for me. And…

This is so much more than.. a few little.. lies, to.. ease the minds of the public and not distract them from-.
How he hasn't snapped and overthrown them... He must have a will of solid adamantine...

"How did-." I pull out of her grip a little. "How did Germany..? Stop being a nation of National Socialists?"

"We lost the war. There were trials for the people most directly involved in what the National Socialists did. And ever since then we have been reminded of everything they did so that we never forget it. I don't think that would work in a world where Germany won the war. I think your people would probably learn the wrong lessons."
...Yeah, that's probably likely. Any change is going to have to be bloody as all hell...

"Yes. I did. And I have more reason to question things than most."

I… I wipe my eyes. I breathe in slowly, then breathe out.
Okay... I think she can see a little hope now...

"I think-."

"Angelika, what the heck are you playing at!"
Ah, OL's caught up to her. Let's hope Krona's busy...

I look around and-. Orange Paul has finished with the problems Red Paul was creating.

"I… Needed to talk to her."
And I think Paul can see just how well that little talk has helped her...

He frowns at me and.. her.

"After Time Trapper specifically told you not to?" He shakes his head. "Come on. We're leaving. Hopefully, Krona won't pick up anything."

His ring blinks, his face falls, and he grabs me with a construct tether and we vanish.
Fingers crossed for luck... And I wonder if these three are ever going to mention this to anyone... Then again... Who'd believe them?

We can but hope that Overgirl's little side-trip hasn't drawn Krona's attention here... Hopefully, with Zaul out of the universe, he'll find no reason to mess with it...
 
Because despite the importance of the emotional moment for Her it is pretty trivial in comparison to all of time and space in even one universe, and his brevity of regard for that makes it feel like he doesn't value the accomplishment of his own goals.
 
Yes yes, I know you can quote the wikia quite well by now, but you missed the part from the actual comic where that was Giles guessing.

Pity you weren't capable of pairing that awareness of that the point of experts acting as Mr Exposition in a story is to tell people what is going on.

But hey, if you have some actual evidence to support your so far completely unsupported by anything resembling evidence (or logic) theory, please feel free to share.
 
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Because we just saw a character a significant portion of the readers hated get some much needed character development that will allow her to get rid of her insane beliefs and he just ruined her emotional moment despite the fact that he had been trying to get her to do that.

Said character also risked all of existence. Which is an insanely selfish thing to do for some closure. Angelika is a moron.

And her Buffyverse self just casually got her worldview shattered.
 
Angelika also probably thought that TP and RQ were being overly paranoid and that talking to someone won't be so bad.
Also she has been stranded in an unfamiliar universe where everything she believes in is mocked, has probably only one person she can consider to be a friend, can't contact her father, aunt or any of her friends from home etc.
She is not emotionally stable at this moment and will make some mistakes, hopefully just this one.
 
"We lost the war. There were trials for the people most directly involved in what the National Socialists did. And ever since then we have been reminded of everything they did so that we never forget it. I don't think that would work in a world where Germany won the war. I think your people would probably learn the wrong lessons."
"So, you guys are walking me home and we're going to get very, very drunk before we even touch what just happened."
 
The full line is something along the lines of "He cannot be killed by any weapon forged by man". The Rocket Launcher was manufactured and put together by machines. It's like how Duncan could kill Macbeth because he was a c-section. Magic loopholes are a doozy.

My personal theory is that the jet of copper that impaled him was forged by explosives. A different application of the monroe effect, where the cone is a lot more obtuse, is in fact called "explosively formed fragments". Ugh brain fart. I ment to use the other term: "Self-forging fragments".
 
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"A National Socialist, yes. I am known as Overgirl. Which is… I understand that women are encouraged to have a greater role in the workforce on… Earths where the National Socialists were defeated. I have.. struggled to reconcile what.. the Party says in the proper role for women with how I actually live."
That should be 'is' instead of 'in'.
 
Said character also risked all of existence. Which is an insanely selfish thing to do for some closure. Angelika is a moron.

And her Buffyverse self just casually got her worldview shattered.
What worldview? That parallel universes don't exist? Or that, even if they were to exist, travel between them is completely impossible forever? Neither seem like fundamental pillars of an average German's belief system to me.

And that's all that that woman learned. That multiple parallel Earths exist, that some people can travel between them and that one of said earths has access to alien DNA that can provide superpowers and had its Germany win WWII.
 
There's quite literally no way to prevent the entire dimension from collapsing when Twilight shows up.
It is possibly interesting that I thought you were referring to a certain Twilight Sparkle here... And, I couldn't see how a certain magical pony turning up would collapse an entire world-line...

After a while I realised you were referring to the BtVS comics. From my experience on 'Twisting the Hellmouth', and other BtVS fan places, a great many fanfic authors do not regard any of the comic stuff as canon, though they may loot bits from them as suits them. The plot-lines in the comics are really not very well done, even compared to the silly things (magical venereal disease, anyone?) from the tv series. 'Twilight' is particularly terrible, and its use of Angel quite pathetic. Also, end of the tv series (which effectively includes 'Angel') is a logical place to treat as end-of-canon.

But, as always, YMMV...

On a slightly different topic, the Buffy-verse is rather strange, in that the only reference that I recall to Space was a demon from there, that seemed from out of Lovecraft. Impression was often given, as is the case with many horror genre settings, that the universe was Earth-centric, and all Space was about was somewhere for eldritch horrors to come from, similar to the old 'crystal sphere on which the stars are projected'. So aliens, not so much, demons from Space (which is likely not much bigger than the Earth's Solar System, at most, PtB faking-up any details), yes.
 
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Zoat can just handwave Twilight away.

He already doesn't consider most, if not all, of the n52 canon, aside from some mentions and Overgirl being the exceptions, plus the YJ show already made sure that some things in his fic are diffrent, like Barda still working for Apokalyps, that martian taking the villain moniker that his uncle would have as his name in the comics, making Metron the sole inventor of Motherboxes, Fatherboxes and Boom Tubes, though the last one could just be ignorance on the part of Dreamer if she didn't know about Himon.
 
Interesting update. I don't really buy it, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Feels a bit too fast/easy for her to be thinking everything she believes is a lie. What? Because a non-Nazi Germany isn't a shithole?
 
She may have been having doubts even on her world and being in another universe broke her nazi conditioning
 
I ignore the recording in favour of watching the audience. Yes, I didn't expect a violent response, but I am a little impressed with how calmly they're taking this. Crosses are more than a little in evidence, but a quick scan shows me paraphernalia from a smattering of other religions as well. And one cheeky git with a little smiley badge, clutching a colander and watching with an expression of polite interest. I didn't bother asking about the vetting

Hol' up. Was this fore shadowing 'bout boss smiley pretending to be the source? Or is it boss smiley himself?

Edit:damn phone! Type what I want you to type, instead of lagging and missing words!
 
Interesting update. I don't really buy it, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Feels a bit too fast/easy for her to be thinking everything she believes is a lie. What? Because a non-Nazi Germany isn't a shithole?
I will point out that it's a lot more than that

Overgirl already had some doubts about her home dimension before she even left it as a result of Karl making no secret of his beliefs and her having to try and reconcile Nazi beliefs of the role of women and her own role without acknowledging that they were completely contradictory

Her doubts have only been exacerbated by all the stuff she's been through since then

- All three of the Earths she's been to being perfectly fine despite the Nazis losing the war
- Confronting the fact that her own Auntie is probably a lesbian and acknowledging that she wouldn't report her if that is true
- Realising that all of that propaganda that's been forced down her throats her entire life is bullshit
- Meeting a clone of Hitler that has a black wife and mixed race children, which I think happened offscreen
- And now on top of all that she's met a version of herself that is happy in this world, arguably happier than she was in her own, which proves that her happiness isn't tied to Nazism


Though one thing I am confused about is why they're so worried about Krona finding out about them since he clearly already knows, why else would he have sent those Manhunters to attack Raul?
 
Though one thing I am confused about is why they're so worried about Krona finding out about them since he clearly already knows, why else would he have sent those Manhunters to attack Raul?
Because Krona has been sending Manhunters out to collect Pauls from all over the multiverse. That Raul fought them off is unusual but others have managed it so it doesn't stand out much. What they don't want is him paying attention to them in perticular, so they don't want to do anythin that would make them interesting.
 
Because Krona has been sending Manhunters out to collect Pauls from all over the multiverse. That Raul fought them off is unusual but others have managed it so it doesn't stand out much. What they don't want is him paying attention to them in perticular, so they don't want to do anythin that would make them interesting.
Except every other time we've seen a Paul get kidnapped it was a giant blue hand, not Manhunters
 
So are they off to the next parallel Earth? Cause I wanted to see the fallout of Red Paul smashing the Mayor in a highly visible and public manner. Then again the SEP bullshit would probably make everyone think it was kids on PCP playing with a cigarette lighter near a gas leak or something.
 
That should be 'is' instead of 'in'.
Lacking the grandeur.
Thank you, corrected.
Hol' up. Was this fore shadowing 'bout boss smiley pretending to be the source? Or is it boss smiley himself?

Edit:damn phone! Type what I want you to type, instead of lagging and missing words!
Yes. Well spotted.
- Meeting a clone of Hitler that has a black wife and mixed race children, which I think happened offscreen
No, I haven't written it yet. It didn't seem to fit in the Brazil episode.
Though one thing I am confused about is why they're so worried about Krona finding out about them since he clearly already knows, why else would he have sent those Manhunters to attack Raul?
He's picking up more SI-variants. The concern is that he will find out that this group are working with Time Trapper.
 
Except every other time we've seen a Paul get kidnapped it was a giant blue hand, not Manhunters

Krona got his finger sliced by renegade and may be more cautious now.

He could have also lost his power, or at least a portion of it, seeing as the blade can kill gods and strip them of their power, though seeing as he isn't an arcane being maybe he is imune.

The other reason he is sending Manhunters instead of doing it himself may be beacuse he doesn't have time to do it and needs to focus on his project.
 

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