With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Wonder if characters aside from the SI from these various universes will ever meet.

If Ahriman wants some pointers in killing stars then he could ask Darkseid how he got rid of Apokalips's sun.

 

[Hidden Variable]

Snip.

Click to shrink...

Don't u judge me Mr author man, I'm sleep deprived and have a migraine, Its perfectly acceptable to make mistakes when reading hurts my brain-meats. Now that I know what time it is, yes, still pre gathering storm but only just. I think that means tau have that warp-gate thing, and warp drives, and an oncoming Death Guard crusade.

 

[Vaermina]

The Tau have barely any warp presence and no psykers. Tau worlds are about as safe from cultists and random possessions as the 41st millennia gets. Worlds towards the centre of their empire also have large fleets.

Click to shrink...

That turned out to be incorrect.

They have a warp presence and have started to birth psykers.

And of course their fleets while large, are generally worthless in comparison to everything else in the setting. Especially now that the Primarch's are returning and pulling out all the previously forbidden dark age technology.

Do you have a source for that? I keep seeing this claim but no one ever offers a source on where they got it. For all we know it was moved by warp storms during the Age of Strife.

Click to shrink...

It comes from official maps that move the solar system 20,000ly away from it's actual position.

 

[transhumansage]

It's 40k. There are no good guys. The whole setting is designed to be as laughably fucked as possible.

But on that note, argh....he's joining the facking Tau?!

Oh OL, the heresy....it burns!

Click to shrink...

are you one of those ppl salty about the tau originally being good guys.

 

[Massgamer]

If not happy with Tau there is always the Farsight Enclaves which is basically the same but who's leader it's against the Empire's mostly corrupt leadership.

 

[Vaermina]

You really have to wonder what this particular Paul is thinking.

The Tau are quite literally balanced on the Razors edge of being weak enough that the Imperium doesn't bother utterly crushing them and powerful enough to keep out minor Imperium attacks via Tau wave tactics.

Anything he does risks tipping them over the edge onto "The Imperium sends a real fleet to wipe the Tau out.".

And that's before you get into the fact the Tau are known brainwashers and he has no defense against that.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

are you one of those ppl salty about the tau originally being good guys.

Click to shrink...

I view the Tau as space Bretonnia, started off as the good guy then GW realised they didn't want that in their setting and made them worse (morally). - person salty about the tau originally being good guys

 

[Coda]

You really have to wonder what this particular Paul is thinking.

The Tau are quite literally balanced on the Razors edge of being weak enough that the Imperium doesn't bother utterly crushing them and powerful enough to keep out minor Imperium attacks via Tau wave tactics.

Anything he does risks tipping them over the edge onto "The Imperium sends a real fleet to wipe the Tau out.".

And that's before you get into the fact the Tau are known brainwashers and he has no defense against that.

Click to shrink...

On the contrary: He has better defense against brainwashing than most people would. Not on par with a psyker, perhaps, but he wants to retain control of his faculties and identity. If he's set up a Wholeness Rightly Assumed template in this timeline, he's good. And it's not like he has to worry about conserving charge.

I agree the Tau are balanced on a razor's edge, but we all know that the SI has a preference to take a third option when the opportunity presents itself -- instead of navigating a balance of power, he might find another way to establish peaceful coexistence thanks to his outsider perspective.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

are you one of those ppl salty about the tau originally being good guys.

Click to shrink...

I have no idea what you're even talking about.

 

[Vaermina]

On the contrary: He has better defense against brainwashing than most people would. Not on par with a psyker, perhaps, but he wants to retain control of his faculties and identity. If he's set up a Wholeness Rightly Assumed template in this timeline, he's good. And it's not like he has to worry about conserving charge.

Click to shrink...

The ring can only fix physical alterations, not mental ones.

I agree the Tau are balanced on a razor's edge, but we all know that the SI has a preference to take a third option when the opportunity presents itself -- instead of navigating a balance of power, he might find another way to establish peaceful coexistence thanks to his outsider perspective.

Click to shrink...

The only "peaceful coexistence" possible for the Tau is being conquered by the Imperium.

Everything else is "Bad End" territory.

Either they will be killed by the Orks, eaten by the Tyranids, converted by the Necrons, corrupted by Chaos, turned into farm animals by the Dark Eldar, or used as an easily expended meatshield by the Eldar.

And that's not even counting that the Tau are going to be utterly hosed in 63 years when the Eye of Terror expands and consumes most of their worlds. An event that the Tau have absolutely no ability to influence.

 

[Sun Dog]

With a Lantern Ring he could revive Guilliman, Lion'el, and maybe the Emperor. Any one of which would be worth a lot of goodwill from the Imperium. He could also loot the databases of all those secretive Forge Worlds hoarding a better toaster to boost their own importance and redistribute that knowledge more fairly. Don't get me wrong, though. The Tau are a decent option if you ignore that the only reason the Imperium hasn't buried them in bodies yet is always having a bigger concern when they gather the fleets and armies to do so. Depending on the timeframe, he could maybe save Panacea, the STC fragment with cures to all diseases that the Dark Eldar destroyed out of petty spite.

 

[Caerwen]

With a Lantern Ring he could revive Guilliman, Lion'el, and maybe the Emperor. Any one of which would be worth a lot of goodwill from the Imperium. He could also loot the databases of all those secretive Forge Worlds hoarding a better toaster to boost their own importance and redistribute that knowledge more fairly. Don't get me wrong, though. The Tau are a decent option if you ignore that the only reason the Imperium hasn't buried them in bodies yet is always having a bigger concern when they gather the fleets and armies to do so. Depending on the timeframe, he could maybe save Panacea, the STC fragment with cures to all diseases that the Dark Eldar destroyed out of petty spite.

Click to shrink...

Even just repairing the golden throne would be worth a lot to them.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Does look to me that the best thing for this (WH40k) setting would be for an enormous mutant star-goat to eat the entire galaxy, then sneeze-out the non-totally broken souls as a new universe that's actually half-worth living in...

But, what would I know?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

The only "peaceful coexistence" possible for the Tau is being conquered by the Imperium.

Everything else is "Bad End" territory.

Either they will be killed by the Orks, eaten by the Tyranids, converted by the Necrons, corrupted by Chaos, turned into farm animals by the Dark Eldar, or used as an easily expended meatshield by the Eldar.

And that's not even counting that the Tau are going to be utterly hosed in 63 years when the Eye of Terror expands and consumes most of their worlds. An event that the Tau have absolutely no ability to influence.

Click to shrink...

You've forgotten the T'au's secret weapon:
Plot armour, they're GW's favourite (lore-wise) for some reason

Even just repairing the golden throne would be worth a lot to them.

Click to shrink...

Until a civil war breaks out between the emperor and the inquisition ala if the emperor had a TTS device

 

[transhumansage]

The ring can only fix physical alterations, not mental ones.


The only "peaceful coexistence" possible for the Tau is being conquered by the Imperium.

Everything else is "Bad End" territory.

Either they will be killed by the Orks, eaten by the Tyranids, converted by the Necrons, corrupted by Chaos, turned into farm animals by the Dark Eldar, or used as an easily expended meatshield by the Eldar.

And that's not even counting that the Tau are going to be utterly hosed in 63 years when the Eye of Terror expands and consumes most of their worlds. An event that the Tau have absolutely no ability to influence.

Click to shrink...

the imperium would wipe out the tau too. what part of genocidal fascists dont you understand.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

With a Lantern Ring he could revive Guilliman

Click to shrink...

Except, since it's extremely unlikely that he'd be able to talk his way into being allowed to use his heretical xenotech on a Primarch, he'd have to fight his way past the UltraSmurfs first. I don't think he's got enough ring charge to deal with that level of plot armour.

 

[PDV]

The Orks are fight happy loonies.

Click to shrink...

On the one hand, yes. On the other:

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
-- Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society

Click to shrink...

Does look to me that the best thing for this (WH40k) setting would be for an enormous mutant star-goat to eat the entire galaxy, then sneeze-out the non-totally broken souls as a new universe that's actually half-worth living in...

But, what would I know?

Click to shrink...

Better would be to replace the star goat with the biggest WAAAGH! imaginable. The Orks will genocide everything, then fight among themselves for eternity or until they wipe themselves out. But, as Uthan the Perverse notes, they will enjoy every last zoggin minute of it. Orks are insane, but they're also living their best lives despite the Grimdark.

 

[Sun Dog]

Except, since it's extremely unlikely that he'd be able to talk his way into being allowed to use his heretical xenotech on a Primarch, he'd have to fight his way past the UltraSmurfs first. I don't think he's got enough ring charge to deal with that level of plot armour.

Click to shrink...

Literally tens of thousands of pilgrims come to stare at Papa Smurf every day. I don't doubt there's an honor guard, but I also don't imagine they'd see a ring as a threat before it started doing obvious and very visible things, and by then he's fixed anyways.

Though, it would probably be a lot easier to get the Lion first and use his influence to bull your way into Guilliman's shrine and the throne room. And while nothing in this fic suggests he could scan the whole galaxy to find Vulkan, Khan and the other missing Primarchs, it's not too dissimilar from feats Lanterns have pulled in the comics (granted, Pre-Crisis).

 

[RichardWhereat]

I'm trying to avoid Godwins law here but we are talking about collaborating with genocidal fascists.

Click to shrink...

Saying you're trying to avoid Godwin's Law, is like admitting that you lost the game. The moment you do, is the moment you fail.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

but I also don't imagine they'd see a ring as a threat before it started doing obvious and very visible things

Click to shrink...

Except that they would, because they're the UltraSmurfs, and your logic cannot trump the fact that GW loves them more than their other kids.

 

[lefthandturnsignal]

We have plenty of forms of economics and government to pull from, you can just call the Imperium a xenocidal, genocidal, theocratic, ogliarchy.

 

[zerofarad]

How.. best to being?

Click to shrink...

begin

 

[GhostKing 666]

the imperium would wipe out the tau too. what part of genocidal fascists dont you understand.

Click to shrink...

That they aren't fascists. Don't get me wrong, they are certainly both genocidal and authoritarian. But fascism refers to a specific type of government, which the Imperium couldn't be further from if they tried. The Imperium of Man is a Authoritarian Feudal Theocratic Oligarchy, and the only thing the IoM has in common with fascism is the authoritarianism.

Mussolini: Everything within the state, Nothing outside the State, Nothing against the State.

That is the definition of fascism by the guy who invented the idea, and the Imperium violates those tenets many times over. The Ministorum, the Mechanicus, the Inquisition, the Astartes, etc., so many different internal power structures that no one person has command over all of them and many have in the past even turned against the greater Imperium in favor of their own personal objectives. Hell if the Imperium was fascist then Rogue Traders sure as hell wouldn't be a thing as the very concept of Rogue Traders violates the idea of there being "Nothing outside the State".

People keep saying the Imperium is fascist, but as Arch Warhammer has pointed out in his videos*, nobody ever backs that statement up with any evidence of actual fascism. At best they confuse fascism and authoritarianism for the same thing even though they aren't.

*

Spoiler: The Imperium is not Fascist

 

[hkim]

That they aren't fascists. Don't get me wrong, they are certainly both genocidal and authoritarian. But fascism refers to a specific type of government, which the Imperium couldn't be further from if they tried.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but the thing is nobody cares. Authoritarianism is bad, fascism is bad, we yeeted both of them to Hell in World War II and we don't need 'em back. It's like the difference between a pedophile and an ephebophile - yes, there's a difference, yes, they're two different things, and yes, they'll both get you sent to prison with a "kiddie diddler" dog tag so everyone knows.

That's why everyone conflates them.

 

[Vaermina]

With a Lantern Ring he could revive Guilliman, Lion'el, and maybe the Emperor. Any one of which would be worth a lot of goodwill from the Imperium. He could also loot the databases of all those secretive Forge Worlds hoarding a better toaster to boost their own importance and redistribute that knowledge more fairly. Don't get me wrong, though. The Tau are a decent option if you ignore that the only reason the Imperium hasn't buried them in bodies yet is always having a bigger concern when they gather the fleets and armies to do so. Depending on the timeframe, he could maybe save Panacea, the STC fragment with cures to all diseases that the Dark Eldar destroyed out of petty spite.

Click to shrink...

It's 934.M41, he has very little time to do anything.

You've forgotten the T'au's secret weapon:
Plot armour, they're GW's favourite (lore-wise) for some reason.

Click to shrink...

That plot armor expires on 999.M41, when the Tau get fucked sideways by the Eye of Terror expanding.

the imperium would wipe out the tau too. what part of genocidal fascists dont you understand.

Click to shrink...

Depends on which branch of the Imperium gets to them first.

And of course once the Primarch's return they would be perfectly willing to accept the Tau surrender to become members of the Imperium.

 

[Ciber]

That's more than 50 years for OL to make butterflies. I think he has a good chance.

 

[Vaermina]

That's more than 50 years for OL to make butterflies. I think he has a good chance.

Click to shrink...

I am guessing you don't realize that 50 years is basically nothing in Warhammer 40k...

And that any butterflies he could make would require going over to the Imperium since they are the only one's who can even remotely counter Eldar future fuckery.

 

[GhostKing 666]

And of course once the Primarch's return they would be perfectly willing to accept the Tau surrender to become members of the Imperium.

Click to shrink...

While Guilliman probably wouldn't have a problem making them a xeno protectorate(something that occasionally happened in 30k, though all of them have long sense been obliterated), the T'au would probably be better off agreeing to become vassals of Imotekh. They'd be stuck sending tribute to the guy(not like they wouldn't with the Imperium) but at last they might have a chance to get a cryptek or two have a looksee over their race and possibly work out how to prevent them from evolving into a Psyker Race.

Because that's a thing now in a history repeats itself sense. The T'au, Humanity and the Aeldari are all following the same path, with the T'au being like humanity during the Dark Age. Provided that Humanities own potential Fall doesn't destroy the galaxy*, the T'au will eventually become like humanity as they slowly become a psyker race themselves. And I don't know about you, but if I was a near psychically dead race in Warhammer and found out that my race was destined to slowly gain psyker powers and become like Humanity and the Aeldari, I'd run screaming to the nearest sane(or saneish) cryptek and beg them to use their bullshit technology to keep that from happening, even if it meant becoming a vassal race to a Necron Phaeron.

*Humanity isn't just evolving into a race of psykers, we're evolving into psykers more powerful then the Aeldari are and more populace and spread out in the galaxy. If Humanity suffers a "Fall" like the Aeldari did, our Fall would create a Warp Tear the size of the galaxy itself. This is why the Emperor wanted all of humanity under the Imperium's control, so that he could control and direct humanity's coming evolution into a safe state and that some isolated group wouldn't fuck things up by accident.

 

[Ciber]

I am guessing you don't realize that 50 years is basically nothing in Warhammer 40k...

And that any butterflies he could make would require going over to the Imperium since they are the only one's who can even remotely counter Eldar future fuckery.

Click to shrink...

Fifty years with an Orange Power Ring and OOC knowledge might just manage something. And the Eldar may not necessarily be antagonistic if the presence of the SI enables a future path that does not result in the triumph of tyranids.

 

[Vaermina]

Fifty years with an Orange Power Ring and OOC knowledge might just manage something. And the Eldar may not necessarily be antagonistic if the presence of the SI enables a future path that does not result in the triumph of tyranids.

Click to shrink...

An Orange Power ring without a Guardian Database puts him at roughly the level of a Beta level Psyker.

I am not making that comparison lightly either, as everything he can do, sans FTL, Beta level psykers have also been shown to be capable of doing. And yes I am including "turn people into constructs" in that, because Beta level psykers have actually been shown to be able to do that.

His OCC knowledge is in fact worthless to the Tau, as the only two factions that could actually use the small bits of information he actually knows to change things for even the slightest bit better are the Imperium and Eldar.