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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. GodKiller999

    GodKiller999 Getting out there.

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    Gotta say, this is a pretty good argument for him having more effort to try and get a personal handle on the other lights and to put that on his schedule if he makes it regardless. Know it won't happen, but I do feel that's more dictated by doylist reasons rather than watsonian ones.
     
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  2. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    You might want to consider what 'SI' stands for, and what that means for what the "MC" does in the story that the author is writing and you are not.
     
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  3. Threadmarks: Jet Fighter (part 5)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    31st December 2012
    16:13 GMT -5


    "Riddle me this."

    Mr. Nygma doesn't turn around from his monitors.

    "When is a contract not a contract?"

    "I don't know the answer you want, but I can think of several logically consistent answers. For example, 'when it's upside down', because 'it's' can mean either 'it has the property of' or 'it is only'. Alternately, I could treat the first 'contract' as a document and the second as a legally binding agreement, in which case 'when no one signs it' would be an answer."

    In the reflection on the screen I can see him sneer. "You're so basic. This is why I fight Batman."

    "Because Batman would work out what answer you want, then use that to beat you. I freely accept that I'm not as intelligent as Batman or as you. On the other hand, I can achieve a similar level of success by brute forcing the actual solution. I read a book a few years ago called Un Lun Dun, where the heroine wasn't the prophesised saviour but decided to have a crack at saving the day after the heroine got taken out. Initially, she tried to follow the prophecy, but after one of her friends was killed she stopped, worked out what bits of it she actually needed to complete her objective and did those instead. Batman would try to understand your thought processes, I'd just say 'ring, scan'."

    "I was in your class."

    "You taught classes because it massaged your ego. The rest of them were there to learn things and maybe reform. Which is why your signature is on a contract and theirs aren't. And yes, it works whether you sign your own name or not, Theophilus Carter."

    "Batman would have worked out that I was going to do that."

    "While I just monitored everyone with my rings. I've already admitted that you're more intelligent than me. You really don't need to convince me."

    "Oh, I know that I'm more intelligent than you. But the honest truth is, I think Captain Cold is as well."

    "Possibly. I've never invented a device capable of reducing a target to zero degrees kelvin."

    "Oh, that's clever. But it's not that."

    "Okay, what is it? Is it-?"

    "He reinvented the wheel, Orange Lantern. He knew next to nothing about physics notation so he invented his own. Have you ever tried doing base nine maths?"

    "I once very briefly tried doing base thirteen maths."

    "Base thirteen-. Hitchhiker's Guide, where Douglas Adams didn't write a joke in base thirteen. How much do you think doing everything in base ten limits our thinking?"

    "Not at all. I have data on thousands of cultures who do maths in various ways, and there's no real correlation between base and development speed."

    "I didn't ask 'does it limit people'. I asked how it 'limits our thinking'."

    "I don't know.""You taught yourself to do base eight maths, didn't you?"

    "Please. I can think in any base."

    "Including tw-"

    "Two and a half, yes."

    "-o and-. Probability, or did you know I was going to say that?"

    "It's a riddle."

    "I can see your face in the reflection, you can probably see mine. Between the shape of my mouth and the starting sound, guessing 'two' isn't hard. Half is quicker to say than 'quarter'. Though I should warn you that a lecturer once asked what came next in the sequence 'one, two, four, eight', and I said 'seventy seven'."

    "Were you right?"

    "I wasn't wrong. The pattern was 'each new number is bigger than the one before'. It was supposed to teach us that most people assume things and won't try and falsify their assumptions. Most people guess 'sixteen' and then stop."

    "But not you."

    "But not me. I think I was the only one in the entire lecture theatre who actually did the required reading, which explained the whole thing."

    "I suppose that knowing when to mindlessly obey is a skill in itself."

    "Mister Nygma, could you please explain something to me?"

    "Probably."

    "You've read your own psychological profile, both the Arkham one and the Belle Reve one."

    "Quinzel has a second class mind at best."

    "I doubt that she's got your IQ, but she does want to help you get better. And as far as I can tell, you don't."

    I start to pace a little, and I can see the reflection of his eyes following me.

    "Your father's dead. Everyone who knows you acknowledges that you're a very intelligent man. Crock isn't up here, looking at this. And neither are Leonard or Tuttle, and you know how much I respect their work. Batman wouldn't have put you here if he thought that he could work it out without you, so… Riddle me this: why is the Riddler?"

    "That's even easier than your lecture hall answer. My 'neuroatypicality' isn't that I like riddles. If you want that, you should go and talk to Cluemaster. It's my compulsion to tell the truth when I misbehave. It's why I'm talking to you now rather than just ignoring you; I can't… Not. The reason that I got sent to Belle Reve and not Arkham is that I'm not legally 'insane'. I know perfectly well what good and evil are, otherwise I wouldn't be compelled to leave confessional riddles around when I do evil."

    "But you… Do it for validation, right? I was sort of hoping that I could provide you with intellectually challenging problems for the rest of your life and you'd abandon the whole 'Riddler' thing."

    "Not until I beat the Batman."

    "Would..? Working out how to fix this mess count?"

    "I don't know yet. Probably not. He wants me to do this."

    "You're using him as a stand-in for your father?"

    "Yes, I realised that years ago. And I don't like it because I hate the idea that an ignoramus like him had such a major effect on my life."

    "You know… Doctor Quinzel does.. actually want to help. And you just said that you want to change. I don’t have to be as intelligent as you to see an opportunity here."

    "Then you should have thought of that before you embarrassed me in front of my peers. Now if you'll excuse me, I have work to do."
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2022
  4. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    "doesn't turn around"
     
  5. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    That should say 'him'.
     
  6. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Your daily reminder that LePaul is a goldfish.

    Mind you, it's also a reminder that LePaul has used his Ring as a crutch for so long that his critical thinking skills have devolved to the level of a particularly surely teenager.
     
  7. Bigking321

    Bigking321 Know what you're doing yet?

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    Huh...

    You know what?

    I am really enjoying the riddler. I wouldn't mind him having more conversations with people.
     
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  8. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    I swear, if this is like 'Why is a Raven like a Writing Desk?' you will be getting such a pinch, see if you don't. And if you're just out to get your ego stroked, OL is not the man to perform that task, no matter what you might have heard about his tastes. :sneaky:

    Batman has been dealing with you for years, and knows you inside out. He barely has to think about the wording of a riddle to comprehend it,

    And once again, prophecies that are deliberately vague prove annoying as well. On the other hand, you could have had something like the Belgariad's Prophecies, which laid out everything the heroes and villains needed, merely garbled by having been filtered through the mind of a madman. o_O More often than not, they only realised something was pertinent as it was needed...

    An actual person, by the way. An amusing detail: He was said to have been the inspiration for the Mad Hatter in Lewis Carrol's stories. And who else is a Batman villain? :p

    And OL doesn't really care about that. Which is probably what's getting under Eddie's skin.

    OL by himself is not all that smarter than the average person. It's why his go-to action when presented with a problem is 'call a smarter friend.'

    Sounds like a rather non-imal conundrum. :p

    Well, at least he can trade jokes and barbs like a pro.

    ...Oh, that's where you're going with this, is it, Eddie? For god's sake, if you want your ego stroked...

    ...I'm sure you can stroke yourself just fine. :p

    Sounds a little irrational.

    The pinch option is still on the table, Question-Mark Man.

    I don't think that's the point, Eddie.

    His assumptions just tend to be a little more... Out there, than others.

    I suppose there's always one in every class...

    And I'm sure they were very fascinating.

    He is what he is, and he seems happy enough with it. Trying to nudge him off a self-destructive path, perhaps?

    In other words, why are you the way you are, and why do you keep being that way even when you've had so many opportunities to not be that way? I'm reminded of that Spider-man meme, with the pterodactyl man who could have cured cancer with his research... But would rather turn people into dinosaur men.

    And it's no fun if no-one around you isn't acknowledging that you're the smartest guy in the room, huh?

    Because of course it comes down to "I want to prove I;m smarter then the Man Dressed Like A Bat.' :rolleyes:

    Which probably explains why you're trying so hard to not work on it.

    And yet you can't stop thinking that, can you?

    Ah, and there we have the whole point of this little discussion. "Boo-hoo, you bruised my ego. Now bark for me, doggie, or I won't help you save the world."

    Ah, Eddie. Such a brilliant mind, weighed down with such stupid hang-ups. And that one sentence could describe so many smart people in the DC Universe. If it weren't for that (and Status Quo) just imagine what Earth would be like... Still, if Eddie can be persuaded to let go of this damn fool grudge he has, maybe he could one day become the World's Greatest Detective...
     
  9. PepeTheFrog

    PepeTheFrog Know what you're doing yet?

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    He's become a full on Greenie. In the beginning Paul questioned why the Lanterns never did "insert every idea Paul came up with or borrowed from Prime Earth" but now coming up with different ways of doing things is difficult because using the ring to do it is easy. To paraphrase the words of a certain ghost Paul is now "A very strong and scary person with a spoon, capable of spooning harder and faster than anyone else".
     
  10. B00ki5h

    B00ki5h Verified: Oddball, Lurker, and Dabbler

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    That and he’s running around in the body of someone around the age of 16-19 when was the last time you saw someone that young make an intelligent decision constantly
     
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  11. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  12. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I found a video that perfectly shows how Paul would deal with Riddler.

     
  13. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    Which is
     
  14. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  15. Dur'id the Druid

    Dur'id the Druid Know what you're doing yet?

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    Wow, Paul misread the desires of someone??
     
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  16. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Huh, interesting conversation and insight.

    Paul wasn't specifically trying to look at Riddler's desires, he wanted Riddler to explain it.
     
  17. FeepingCreature

    FeepingCreature Not too sore, are you?

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    You know, Riddler, that sounds like a you problem. Just say you enjoy spite more than sanity.

    I mean, it really can be rewritten to "Why is the Riddler?" "Because fuck you." Seems a sentiment somewhat below a "high-tier mind".

    The (rather, one) problem with intelligent characters is that it's really hard to have them not be responsible for their decisions.
     
  18. rdfox

    rdfox Know what you're doing yet?

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    The sad part is, even if Paul tells Bruce about this, it won't help, because if Bruce just lets Eddie outsmart him at some point, Eddie will realize he did and thus the victory will feel hollow.

    My advice to Mr. Nygma would be along these lines: "Unfortunately, you've been facing off with Batman for so long that he knows you too well to be tricked any more--he understands your thought processes from years of experience, and as a result, even if he's less intelligent, he can still recognize the pattern and follow your logic to get to the right answer anyway. You might be better able to prove yourself more intelligent than Batman by instead trying to demonstrate that you can outsmart someone else who has outsmarted Batman in the past, though. Perhaps outsmarting Lex Luthor, Vandal Savage, or Ra's al Ghul would do it--Lex is, arguably, the single most intelligent person on Earth, after all, while Savage and Ra's have impressive minds and literal centuries of experience to educate those minds. All three have outsmarted Batman in the past--if you could outsmart them, then wouldn't you, by proxy, outsmart the Bat?"

    Basically, suggest that Batman knows him too well and thus can't be fooled any more, but if he manages to beat someone who is indisputably smarter than Batman...
     
  19. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    And then Vandal Savage has him assassinated for showing him to be a moron.
     
  20. Whenever Possible

    Whenever Possible Versed in the lewd.

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    So, uh, as a person he considers significantly less intelligent who has power over him, is Nygma going to switch to using Paul as a standin for his father to spite?
     
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  21. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    “Riddle me this, Paul! What’s-”

    “The answer is power ring.”
     
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  22. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    Is E.Nygma Riddler's real name? What I mean is did Riddler change his full legal name to a pun or did his parents actually name him that?
     
  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    His psychiatrist's real name in Harleen Quinzel.
     
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  24. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    I had a brother who had two engineering professors, one named Dr. Light and another Dr. Wily. Another brother has a friend named 'Joy Savage'. And given that my own first name is a virtue, don't rule out parents giving punny names.
     
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  25. mastermenthe

    mastermenthe Mint Thistle

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    This entire conversation was just a roundabout passive-aggressive way of The Riddler begging OL to Brand him into a different person who doesn't have those hangups.
     
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  26. hkim

    hkim Know what you're doing yet?

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    Keep in mind he really hates his parents.
     
  27. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    It's short for Edward Nygma.

    So it's only punny if one goes to the effort.

    If someone introduced themselves as Edward or Eddy Nygma, would your first response be "No it's not" or "You poor poor man, with parents like this?"
     
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  28. Ganurath

    Ganurath Apologizes For Nothing

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    With some of these prisoners, humiliation without retaliation is a sign of weakness and vulnerability, which might invite hostile action from those with petty grudges.
     
  29. RoninSword

    RoninSword Sky God

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    When did OL humiliate Riddler in front of the other convicts? That he has no nemesis/is no ones nemesis?
     
  30. Threadmarks: Jet Fighter (part 6)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    31st December 2012
    16:26 GMT -5


    Dr. Quinzel doesn't look up when I sit down next to her. She's staring out of the library window into the Dreamstorm, which is swirling every bit as hard as it was when my party and I went through it.

    "Doctor Quinzel. How are you doing?"

    "Y'c'n call me Harleen, yah know."

    "I like 'Quinzel'. It's a combination of syllables where the softness of 'Quin' compliments the hardness of 'zel', no one part outstaying its welcome. I can't think of another word quite like it. Whereas 'Harleen' has those two long vowel sounds, like... 'Balloon', or something. Of the two, I think 'Quinzel' is definitely better."

    She makes a very small smile, glancing my way for a moment before resuming her vigil.

    "I ain't nevah thwort of it like that befowah."

    "Of course not. You hear it a lot. As far as you're concerned it's a perfectly normal name."

    "How 'bowt you?"

    "It's three syllables and has a similar mouth-feel to 'Halloween'. Only the double 'E' is an 'I'."

    "I mean… Awla this."

    "I wasn't ready. But for some reason the Anti-Life isn't affecting me. For me this is a.. setback, but I have every confidence that we'll pull through in the end."

    "Y'gawt anyone not inside'a here?"

    "Jade's on the other side of the galaxy, so she's fine. A.. part from the huge Reach war fleet heading her way. But her mother and a few friends of mine are out there. You?"

    "Niece an' nephew. Little kids. A few friends from college I get togevah with a few times a year." She swings her legs under her seat. "Guess y'can't rilly pick 'em up before ev'ryone else."

    "It's a novel situation. We don’t know what we need to prioritise, or even… Whether it might be better to evacuate the planet."

    She turns her head to look at me with a sniff, her eyes wide and slightly watering.

    "Can th' League do that?"

    "Lanterns can move a lot of people quickly. We'd need somewhere to go, but Tamaran's coming along nicely and they've got plenty of space. Heck, given how low their population is, a few million temporary guest workers would probably be quite useful. It would… Certainly be easier to do that than attacking things we don't know about in places we can't locate, though that's where we are so far when it comes to actually resolving this conflict."

    "What's happ'nin' right now?"

    "Right now Batman and the League's other experts are trying to put together a plan of attack. Which… Isn't really something I can help with, hence why I'm here. I-." My ring blinks. "Yes?"

    Alan's face. "Paul, we need you to head over to Norway. Looks like that robot they had in Washington isn't happy staying put. We need to know if it's possible to keep countries working by getting rid of Alliance infrastructure."

    "Rightoh. I'll send you a message once I get there."

    "Good luck. We all need it."

    I close my left fist, ending the call, then rise to my feet.

    "Excuse me."

    "Yeyeh." She gets up, wiping her eyes. "I should get back ta werk, too."

    "Doctor Quinzel, you got Anti-Lifed, the same as everyone else." I put my right hand on her left shoulder. "If you want to talk, just come and find me, alright?"

    She nods awkwardly, mental defences going back up. Unlike Selinda, Dr. Quinzel actually is good at feigning a positive attitude.

    "I'll see you when I get back." I walk towards the balcony, pushing open the bay windows so that I'm on the exterior of the Tower. "Orange Lantern to Mister Miracle. Tube to the North Sea, please."

    BOOM!

    I fly through, noting-

    31st December 2012
    22:29 GMT +1


    -that there aren't a lot of planes in the air. Modern planes are mostly flown by machine, a process that was accelerated after Klarion's mass child murder because everyone remembers the recordings of the plane crashes and terrifying death plummets after the merger. In theory, once the alert goes out, every plane should head for the nearest landing field and land. But the simple artificial intelligence system can't do everything the air traffic controllers do. It can put the planes on the runway, but it hasn't tested all that well with large numbers of planes because it can't taxi them out of the way in most places.

    "Orange Lantern to Lantern Gardner."

    Norway looks like… Norway, with a very faint green glow in the air. I haven't really had any cause to come-. Here. Since last time I spoke to Jon Haraldson. No idea if the Einherjar are affected by the Anti-Life.

    "'sup?"

    "Alan says you need a hand. You've got me, for up to twenty three hours."

    "What happens then?"

    "I get recalled to Maltus to deal with a major Reach offensive."

    "'kay. That robot can open boom toobs. It's droppin' off squads a' Justifiers wherever it goes. Just hangs around long enough ta' wreck any actual soldiers or police."

    "The Justifiers?"

    "Dunno what they've lookin' fer. They've stuck helmets on a few people, but they don’t got enough fer everyone."

    "I assume that the robot's powerful?"

    "Tough, strong, firepower an' it can boom tube you whenever it feels like it. On yer six."

    I look around as the green glow approaches me from behind.

    "I don' wanna risk gettin' their air force involved, so we're gunna hav' ta fight it smarter."

    "Haraldson?"

    "Haven't seen 'im."

    "Lead on, then. I'm sure at least some of my ammunition types will work."

    He nods, then accelerates over the coast, heading inland, and I follow an instant later.

    "Ice?"

    "Trapping Justified guys. Her family 're battening down the hatches, so-. There."

    It's standing in the sea off the coast of Bergen, Justifiers marching out of a boom tube into the streets.

    "I'll get in his face, you cover me."

    "Not a problem." I switch to the power armour I made that actually has weapons on it. "Just say when."

    Guy generates a construct around him that resembles a 19th century train-

    "When."

    -and charges forward!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
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