With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

I haven't really decided in my own mind when that version of the SI would return to Earth. I know there was a snippet of him being around during Captain America 2, but that wasn't a... Considered decision.

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I vaguely recall a snippet of him talking with Skye about how dumb HYDRAs plan was and about how SHIELD doesn't exactly wait for things like warrants and such, though I don't remember if it was set during one of the movies or the Agents of SHIELD show.

Anyway hope to see you write something featuring MCU Paul in the near future.

And really hope we see what those alternates, like Angel, Red, Sybarite, Common Sense, are doing now that they're back to their universes, in this or the next episode.

 

[Idkusername]

Renegade Lex is just as paranoid; moreso, probably. He internally refers to Grayven as "the second alien".



Given the events of Winter Soldier, Cap was obviously correct. Do not give intrusive oversight powers including detailed secret identity info to an organization which is easily subverted by supervillains. And given that SHIELD was controlled by supervillains from the start, that should include literally every government organization.

In the comics version, almost everyone was on Team Cap, even including Iron Man. Tony Stark thought the imposition of oversight was unavoidable and championed it in a (ultimately successful) attempt to be put in charge and therefore able to shield his friends from the negative effects. He has explicitly stated this 'onscreen'.

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Aside from all the points Mr Zoat brings up,the argument for the Accords is very much a sound one in principle. IN almost any modern nation, the government draws its power from the consent of the governed, except in the case of the UK, where the Parliament derives authority from the Crown (it's functionally the same, though).
The very idea of a superhero runs counter to this.

Only governments can authorise legal use of force, conditionally, and within a limited jurisdiction. Anything else (except when done in self-defence, in defence of another, or under duress) are the same in the eyes of the law. A vigilante and a villain would still face the same charges. Note, in defence of another only applies when the threat is imminent, not far off.

What I'm basically driving at here is that the Accords are actually a really good idea that the movie had to fuck up (either deliberately or unintentionally) to have Captain America make the slightest amount of sense.

In a world with the slightest semblance of sense, the Accords would have generated much discussion and would reflect reality at least a little bit, even if my cynicism forbids me from saying that politicians would work with actual, thought out, policy positions.

Edit: Ideally, experts would also have been called upon for advice. Further, the law could have later been changed or repealed through protest, or when it was shown that it clearly had problems.

 

[nogoodnames]

Finaly caught up with this story again, I just love the unique perspective the SI has in this story. I respect the dedication Mr Zoat has to this story. For this arc I wonder if Lantern Khan will still have his ring after the plotline. How would the Light use this situation to its advantage. Have to comment on the Crisis of multiple SIs is Krona gone for good or what? Are they any future Crises planed?

 

[Darko]

Aside from all the points Mr Zoat brings up,the argument for the Accords is very much a sound one in principle. IN almost any modern nation, the government draws its power from the consent of the governed, except in the case of the UK, where the Parliament derives authority from the Crown (it's functionally the same, though).
The very idea of a superhero runs counter to this.

Only governments can authorise legal use of force, conditionally, and within a limited jurisdiction. Anything else (except when done in self-defence, in defence of another, or under duress) are the same in the eyes of the law. A vigilante and a villain would still face the same charges. Note, in defence of another only applies when the threat is imminent, not far off.

What I'm basically driving at here is that the Accords are actually a really good idea that the movie had to fuck up (either deliberately or unintentionally) to have Captain America make the slightest amount of sense.

In a world with the slightest semblance of sense, the Accords would have generated much discussion and would reflect reality at least a little bit, even if my cynicism forbids me from saying that politicians would work with actual, thought out, policy positions.

Edit: Ideally, experts would also have been called upon for advice. Further, the law could have later been changed or repealed through protest, or when it was shown that it clearly had problems.

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Considering that HYDRA had basically infiltrated a shit ton of governments, governmental organizations and other such groups for decades, most people would be a bit suspicious with any new policies they set after they are exposed.

If HYDRA hadn't done these things, or at least no one found out, I'm pretty sure Cap would be a bit more willing to accept them, but seeing as they did those things and were found out his trust in governments that were essentially furthering HYDRAs agenda for decades, even if mostly unknowingly, would be a bit frayed to say the least.

 

[Cuchulin]

Aside from all the points Mr Zoat brings up,the argument for the Accords is very much a sound one in principle. IN almost any modern nation, the government draws its power from the consent of the governed, except in the case of the UK, where the Parliament derives authority from the Crown (it's functionally the same, though).
The very idea of a superhero runs counter to this.

Only governments can authorise legal use of force, conditionally, and within a limited jurisdiction. Anything else (except when done in self-defence, in defence of another, or under duress) are the same in the eyes of the law. A vigilante and a villain would still face the same charges. Note, in defence of another only applies when the threat is imminent, not far off.

What I'm basically driving at here is that the Accords are actually a really good idea that the movie had to fuck up (either deliberately or unintentionally) to have Captain America make the slightest amount of sense.

In a world with the slightest semblance of sense, the Accords would have generated much discussion and would reflect reality at least a little bit, even if my cynicism forbids me from saying that politicians would work with actual, thought out, policy positions.

Edit: Ideally, experts would also have been called upon for advice. Further, the law could have later been changed or repealed through protest, or when it was shown that it clearly had problems.

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The Accords were a good idea, what was actually in them and what they actually did was beyond stupid especially in a Super Hero Universe as they would have required a group of mostly AMERICANS to get permission from the UN before they did anything. A better idea is to let them get permission after the fact via after action reviews, because a Alien invasion or a killer robot trying to end life on earth isn't going to wait for 'mother may I'. Also the entire thing in the MCU was based on Tony's egocentric guilt trip over Ultron and him STILL not learning that just because he is always the smartest man in any room he is in... doesn't make him the wisest or give him the right to make decisions for other people.

 

[Pinklestia]

"Why were you pretending to be L-Ron?"

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I would complain on how this idiot was able to build an Empire so big but then... real life is full of real life examples of people like him.

Clone degeneration wouldn't make a meaningful difference without making other changes. They have infinite energy, and the technology to create matter from that energy ala Star Trek replicators.

Once the investment of making a record of Arnus's mind and body was bothered with, recreating him takes as much effort as Picard getting his tea by saying "Earl Grey, hot."

Yeah, the Cooperative are at the "oh that's just bullshit" level of technology.

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So are the GLs and like a dozen other civilisations and they usually do nothing but stay in their own little corner of the universe instead of sharing the tech.

Well the GLs like to be the police of the universe but besides that?

Meh.

 

[Darko]

The Accords were a good idea, what was actually in them and what they actually did was beyond stupid especially in a Super Hero Universe as they would have required a group of mostly AMERICANS to get permission from the UN before they did anything. A better idea is to let them get permission after the fact via after action reviews, because a Alien invasion or a killer robot trying to end life on earth isn't going to wait for 'mother may I'. Also the entire thing in the MCU was based on Tony's egocentric guilt trip over Ultron and him STILL not learning that just because he is always the smartest man in any room he is in, doesn't make him the wisest or give him the right to make decisions for other people.

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Yeah if you want Tony to help you fix something or make you a time machine from a can of soda then he's your guy, but for everything else...ehh.

His decision to support the Accords wasn't even guided by logic in the movies, rather because a grieving mother blamed him for her sons death, despite the fact that thousands, if not millions, more would have died if they had done nothing.

This was basically the catalyst that made him support the Accords, on top of his daddy issues, abandonment issues, drinking issues, the untreated PTSD from his kidnapping and nearly dying when NY was invaded and his guilt over Ultron.

Tony is a brilliant man when it comes to science and tech, but that's about the only areas where he is brilliant in.

Really hope that if MCU Paul meets Tony he gets him some seriously needed therapy.

I would complain on how this idiot was able to build an Empire so big but then... real life is full of real life examples of people like him.

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Ohoh, yes.

 

[Pinklestia]

Ohoh, yes.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Dexter

That's the best real life example I could find.

 

[Handlewithcare]

In the MCU, the Accords were presented by General Ross. The man who pursued Dr Banner for years, repeatedly set him off when he just wanted to be left alone to cure himself and caused completely unnecessary property damage and the death of both bystanders and US military personnel. He is not someone anyone with any sense would want to regulate superheroes.

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Absolutely, Ross needed to go. Instead Cap practically proved his arguments of the Avengers being out of control.

And neither are the people who had oversight of SHIELD and 1) tried to nuke New York and 2) signed off on Hydra's flying railgun plan.

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SHIELD is another argument for the accords. People playing world police with alien tech and superpowers an no public oversight. And they constantly screw up. Especially in the series.

The Accords were brought forwards as a policy because a criminal blew himself up after Scarlet Witch moved him away from a crowd and inadvertently towards a smaller number of politicians. Said criminal was attempting to acquire a biological weapon of horrifying potential power and was stopped by the Avengers.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Scarlet Witch in prison for her work with Hydra and Ultron, but 'failed to let unimportant people die' isn't a good reason for doing anything.

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And why did thecri inal get the chance to blow him up? Because he said "Bucky" to Cap. Making him freeze.

Wanda getting blamed was ridiculous, true. And Cap never said anything,iirc, letting her get blamed.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Tony Stark in prison for ACTIVATING ULTRON, but he did that out of his armour and wouldn't have been stopped by an anti-superhero law. And he at least partially did it because Scarlet Witch messed with his mind. I like the way he was played in Winter Soldier, where he nearly fully realised that it was his fault and was trying to fix things.

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Him and Banner. And again, Ultron activated the moment they left the room. Highly suspicious.

But yeah, there should have laws in place for "poking alien stuff", another good points for the accords.

snip

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And if SHIELD would have had public UN oversight that might not have happened.

The Accords were a good idea, what was actually in them and what they actually did was beyond stupid especially in a Super Hero Universe as they would have required a group of mostly AMERICANS to get permission from the UN before they did anything.

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So americans can just go and do whatever in ither countries?

Also the entire thing in the MCU was based on Tony's egocentric guilt trip over Ultron and him STILL not learning that just because he is always the smartest man in any room he is in... doesn't make him the wisest or give him the right to make decisions for other people.

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Making decisions for other people is pretty much a superhero job description. Also what Cap literally wanted. " The best hands are our own" and all that.

Who in that room was wiser than Tony?

 

[Darko]

HYDRA basically infiltrated more than just SHIELD, so any oversight the UN gives them would be pointless as the ones doing the oversight could be HYDRA agents.

 

[Cuchulin]

So americans can just go and do whatever in ither countries?

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No, the UN also doesn't get to tell Captain Britain or Red Guardian what to do either, at least not before hand. That is because it's not only a question of things like sovereignty but that the UN makes up it's mind so slowly that even snails comment on how slow it is. The entire point of the Avengers is to take swift action against overwhelming threats.

Making decisions for other people is pretty much a superhero job description. Also what Cap literally wanted. " The best hands are our own" and all that.
Who in that room was wiser than Tony?

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Wiser than Tony? Cap, Thor, Natasha, Clint and Wanda. Point is Tony was on another of his 'I am Tony Stark, smartest man in history and there for knows better than anyone about everything' kicks. The exact same thing that created Ultron in the first place.
He presented the accords to everyone as a done deal and 'my way or the highway' thing to the TEAM. Caps point was OUR hands, not the man who had cause more problems than everyone else combined with his blind confidence in his own IQ or having them wait around to be told what to do by the UN or the American government.

 

[Idkusername]

HYDRA basically infiltrated more than just SHIELD, so any oversight the UN gives them would be pointless as the ones doing the oversight could be HYDRA agents.

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Either HYDRA has been revealed and the threat is resolved, or the Avengers aren't aware of them and shouldn't favtor into the decision at all (it's the former, if I remember correctly).

 

[Darko]

Either HYDRA has been revealed and the threat is resolved, or the Avengers aren't aware of them and shouldn't favtor into the decision at all (it's the former, if I remember correctly).

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There may be some of their agents left that can still influence governments, plus the corruption that they spread would make people reluctant to trust them.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

they would have required a group of mostly AMERICANS to get permission from the UN before they did anything

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Technically, the way it's phrased...

Any enhanced individuals who sign are prohibited from taking action in any country other than their own unless they are first given clearance by either that country's government or by a United Nations subcommittee

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...they'd be able to take action without UN permission as long as it was cleared by the local government. Or without permission at all as long as it were in their own country. Though it also means that action could be approved unilaterally by the UN without bothering to ask the local government.

For me, the really concerning part is:

• Any enhanced individuals who use their powers to break the law (including those who take part in extralegal vigilante activities), or are otherwise deemed to be a threat to the safety of the general public, may be detained indefinitely without trial.
  • If an enhanced individual violates the Accords, or obstructs the actions of those enforcing the Accords, they may likewise be arrested and detained indefinitely without trial.

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Complete dealbreaker.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

The Accords, the Civil War, the Fifty States Initiative.

The MCU was basically recycling what was seen by Marvel as the successful Civil War from the comics. And, that was a 'get the heroes to fight each other' chunk of stories, with some rather blatant messing with characters (particularly Iron Man). So, the explosion destroying the town is transformed by MCU into Scarlet Witch actions.

A lot of this is about secret identities, and power, the whole registering and controlling of those with super powers bit. Who do you trust to hold such information, and be confident they wont misuse it? This is an information management issue. The answer 'have a central database', with no access/total access permission logic, is really, really, stupid.

One suggestion I found interesting is the real-world logic of revealing the identities of Special Forces members. Who is in what group is apparently not held in a central database, it's only known locally. It might be backed-up, encrypted, somewhere, with multiple keys so you need several to cooperate and unlock it, and that it's been unlocked, and for what exact reason, is recorded. But, we don't get told about that.

On the power side of things, what does 'enhanced' mean? Reminds me, a bit, about the black-belt martial artists needing to register their hands as 'deadly weapons' fun-and-games...

 

[Handlewithcare]

Wiser than Tony? Cap, Thor, Natasha, Clint and Wanda. Point is Tony was on another of his 'I am Tony Stark, smartest man in history and there for knows better than anyone about everything' kicks. The exact same thing that created Ultron in the first place.
He presented the accords to everyone as a done deal and 'my way or the highway' thing to the TEAM. Caps point was OUR hands, not the man who had cause more problems than everyone else combined with his blind confidence in his own IQ or having them wait around to be told what to do by the UN or the American government.

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The guy wo never fnished bootcamp and is 80 years out of date, the guy who almost started a war over a hissyfit, Nat agreed with Tony, Clint wise? And Wanda joined Hydra willingly. Yup. Totally wiser and more experienced than the guy leading a successfull fortune 500 for decades, playing politics and being a genius.

And it's weird how it's all about Tony's ego when it was over a hundred countries that decdied this. Stark is powerful but not that powerful. Tony and Nat said it: it will happen anyway. Let's try to steer.

Given Cap's actions it's clear it was his ego that was the problem. Unwilling to talk or listen, attacks people when they disagree, lies about murder to get his way...

 

[Darko]

Cap probably received training after he was allowed to be deployed on the field, plus with the enhanced intelligence provided by the serum he would have aced it, and while the world has progressed technologically since he was frozen some attitudes still remain even in today's world that were alive during his time, like committing actions that seem sensible at first to the people deciding to commit them, but may do more harm than good in the long run.
Cap has also been unfrozen for several years and while he may not know some things it would be stupid to think he hasn't learnt anything about how the modern world works.

Thor actually got over his issues, Tony not so much.

Tony actually didn't run Stark Industries all that much, Obadiah and Pepper did that, while he focused on inventing things, and drinking, and partying.

He also didn't so much as play politics as he didn't exactly have the patience for that and just preferred to throw his money around and used his fame as Iron Man after the reveal to get his way, not all that great acts of political cunning.

Tony is a tech genius, he is extremely good with technology.

Just because someone is a genius in a certain field doesn't mean that they are a genius in all fields, hell they may be even utterly incompetent in other fields.

High intellect doesn't equate wisdom, and due to all of Tony's untreated emotional problems he may have trouble learning from his mistakes and is prone to letting his traumas influence his thinking to a great degree. He let his guilt influence his decision to support the Accords because that woman blamed him for the death of her son.

The rest, while some of them may have their own issues, aren't a therapists wet dream of emotional baggage and problems.

 

[Rebu]

In the MCU they tried with the accords and the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight wahtsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

So it seems perfectly reasonable to assume people would actually want it like that.

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Huh? Plenty of people at the time argued that Tony was right. In fact, people praised the Russos for giving him a stronger position than the one in the comics, where Team Reg got authoritarian and tyrannical in a hurry. They tried to arrest Cap for not enforcing the SHRA before it was even in effect.

Wanda getting blamed was ridiculous, true. And Cap never said anything,iirc, letting her get blamed.

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Ross put Sokovia and Lagos up on the screen. Wanda looked away, distressed. Steve asked Ross to move on.

Not to mention the dealbreaker during his discussion with Tony was Tony confining Wanda.

And if SHIELD would have had public UN oversight that might not have happened.

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The World Security Council in Avengers was led by a HYDRAnt. Who says the UN is any better? The Avengers are best as a Rapid Reaction Task Force, like Team RAINBOW.

And one word I would never use to describe the UN is "rapid".

Either HYDRA has been revealed and the threat is resolved, or the Avengers aren't aware of them and shouldn't favtor into the decision at all (it's the former, if I remember correctly).

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If HYDRA infiltrated shield, they could infiltrate anyone. Cap specifically points out how the government could keep them from responding. Or point them at the wrong people.

There may be some of their agents left that can still influence governments, plus the corruption that they spread would make people reluctant to trust them.

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We saw some in Ant-Man. And even more in AOS.

The guy wo never fnished bootcamp and is 80 years out of date, the guy who almost started a war over a hissyfit, Nat agreed with Tony, Clint wise? And Wanda joined Hydra willingly. Yup. Totally wiser and more experienced than the guy leading a successfull fortune 500 for decades, playing politics and being a genius.

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You mean the guy who basically let his secretary and dad's pal run the company?

Nat agreed with Tony, then changed her mind. Clint's real superpower isn't marksmanship, it's perception and awareness. On every level. The first thing we see him do in Avengers is point out something some of the smartest and most paranoid people on Earth haven't though about the Tesseract research.

He's also shown himself to be consistently stable, well-adjusted, and intelligent, barring occasional things like mind control and grief from semicide.

 

[Darko]

Even if most of HYDRAs agents were removed from their positions they've still had decades to corrupt the organizations to the point cleaning them up would most likely take decades.

 

[Idkusername]

Look, this is spiralling out of control. We can continue if Mr Zoat gives the OK, or one of us can make a separate thread for this.

 

[Kalem_Lee]

To go back to WtR, Paul is handling well enough as...Overseer? Mediator?

There's no need to do more imo until prompted.

 

[Cuchulin]

Cap probably received training after he was allowed to be deployed on the field, plus with the enhanced intelligence provided by the serum he would have aced it, and while the world has progressed technologically since he was frozen some attitudes still remain even in today's world that were alive during his time, like committing actions that seem sensible at first to the people deciding to commit them, but may do more harm than good in the long run.
Cap has also been unfrozen for several years and while he may not know some things it would be stupid to think he hasn't learnt anything about how the modern world works.
Thor actually got over his issues, Tony not so much.
Tony actually didn't run Stark Industries all that much, Obadiah and Pepper did that, while he focused on inventing things, and drinking, and partying.
He also didn't so much as play politics as he didn't exactly have the patience for that and just preferred to throw his money around and used his fame as Iron Man after the reveal to get his way, not all that great acts of political cunning.
Tony is a tech genius, he is extremely good with technology.
Just because someone is a genius in a certain field doesn't mean that they are a genius in all fields, hell they may be even utterly incompetent in other fields.
High intellect doesn't equate wisdom, and due to all of Tony's untreated emotional problems he may have trouble learning from his mistakes and is prone to letting his traumas influence his thinking to a great degree. He let his guilt influence his decision to support the Accords because that woman blamed him for the death of her son.
The rest, while some of them may have their own issues, aren't a therapists wet dream of emotional baggage and problems.

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Agreed, part of Civil War was Tony making basically the same mistake he and Banner made in Age of Ultron in ignoring what others had to say or might say in favor of his own judgement. The very thing the lead to Ultron being created in the first place, that resulted in him being kidnapped, that created the AIM and so on.

 

[Ardy]

Agreed, part of Civil War was Tony making basically the same mistake he and Banner made in Age of Ultron in ignoring what others had to say or might say in favor of his own judgement. The very thing the lead to Ultron being created in the first place, that resulted in him being kidnapped, that created the AIM and so on.

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Well, the governments of nearly every nation on the planet and Tony. But don't worry, they all forgave the international terrorists because LOOK ALIENS!

 

[Stsword]

They may not be that advanced in Earth 16.

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Yes, Darko, that was the point of the conversation, discussing how Zoat might want to lower their impressiveness to explain why cosmic conflicts like the Reach and Apokalips are things beyond "The Cooperative didn't consider them worth the effort."

Although in this fic it would be perfectly in theme for Paul to find out that in fact Icon's people could have crushed the Reach and Apokalips in an afternoon but were too busy doing important things like naval gazing.

 

[Darko]

Well, the governments of nearly every nation on the planet and Tony. But don't worry, they all forgave the international terrorists because LOOK ALIENS!

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After said terrorists helped fight those aliens that were killing a shit on of innocent people.

Oh and the fact that they had a pretty good track record of saving the world before the Accords fiasco could have also greatly helped them.

 

[Cuchulin]

Well, the governments of nearly every nation on the planet and Tony. But don't worry, they all forgave the international terrorists because LOOK ALIENS!

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First off one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, Caps team were turned into "terrorist" because they objected to a horrible law that was there to knee cap there ability to deal with things like Alien invasions or HYDRA or Ultron. Second those "terrorists" spent most of their time on the run hunting down and taking out the remnants of Hydra. Third we weren't talking about the governments of the world so much as Tony who decided for everyone on the team that they should accept and would accept being bound by that horrible law because HE fucked up, not because he talked to anyone else before hand or because the team as a group made a mistake but because he and Banner decided to ignore Thor's advice as well as the teams agreement that they shouldn't mess with the Mind Stone in any way. So in the end it was about Tony working to holding every one accountable for HIS hubris and HIS epic fuck up in creating Ultron.

 

[Mr Zoat]

7th April
17:57 GMT +2

"I know you like to pretend-"

"… second stage, undercutting and displacing local suppliers, aided by the socio-political instability…"

Mister Luthor has recovered somewhat, but now… He's getting a better idea of what he's hearing.

"-that you're not a supervillain-"

"…leveraging our privileged position to fully monetise the opportunities provided…"

And praise be to Ploutos, I don't think he likes it. I think he's actually disgusted by it. That someone like this can succeed as a trade-prince.

"-but if you wanted to-"

"…seventh stage, welcomed with open arms by local stakeholders due to the collapse…"

Or I could just be projecting, there.

"-take over the ClusterCorp-"

"… a new chapter in the history of both Earth and the ClusterCorp-. Though at that point those two will be the same."

"-I'd totally help."

"Your confidence is appreciated."

Lord-Lantern Comic King turns to face us, throwing his arms up in exultation!

"Any questions?!"

"Just.. one. I was going over the briefing material which L-Ron gave me, and I couldn't help but notice that some of your.. business tactics are.. awfully similar to those employed by the Reach. Now, as I'm sure you're aware-."

He points at me with his right hand!

"Copyright strike!"

…

"I'm-? I'm sorry?"

"Huh." He looks at his right hand. "I thought that was how people on Earth stopped each other talking about subjects they didn't want them to. Perhaps it only works for natives."

"Um. That's not-."

"Though there may be some superficial similarities between the Holy Writ of the Rrrrrrr and the business plans of ClusterCorp, but if so then it is merely an example of convergent evolution as plans are darwinistically trialled and either continued or discarded. Naturally, this has resulted in a degree of similarity, considering that our objectives are often similar, at least in the initial phases, but the Rrrrrrr-."

"I'm sorry, what was that?"

"A degree of similarity between, considering that our objectives and theirs are-."

"Whose?"

"Our… Competitors, and-."

"And who are they? What are they called? The… Reach?"

"The R-. The R-. The Rrrrrrr-."

Mister Luthor shakes his head.

"I don't really think-"

"-rrrrrr-."

"-we need to hear him pronounce-"

"-rrrrrrrrrr-"

"-the word 'Reach'. Though I can recommend a good voice coach-"

"-rrrrrrrrrr-"

"-if you think that it would help."

The meeting room door opens and L-Ron flies in at speed, a small cylinder deploying from his chassis!

"M'lord! Your inhaler!"

"-rrrrrrrrrr-" Manga Khan grabs the cylinder and plugs it into a port in the side of his helmet. There's a gasping noise as the cylinder crumples. "-reach. Reach. Reach. Thank you, L-Ron."

"You're welcome, sir."

Mister Luthor and I share a glance. I hadn't realised that Manga Khan's species could have speech impediments.

"So." Manga Khan slams his hands down on the table. "What say you?"

"I think that some of the local governments may take issue with some of those steps."

"Of course! Competition is a vital part of the capitalist experience!"

"Yes, good. Um. Well, I agree that competition is vital to spur progress. I'm not sure that you're correctly modelling legislative impacts and -frankly- social panic and human ingroup-outgroup psychology. But I do have contacts amongst your target marketisation groups and can arrange meetings with potential suppliers."

Mister Luthor nods.

"I… Was planning to offer my services as a go-between for your negotiations with the United Nations, but your business plan-" And this time I do see him swallow his distaste. "-appears to involve you bypassing them entirely. Is that your opening position, or are you truly committed to it?"

"What works is what works. I, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan, and through me ClusterCorp, have no interest in appeasing market-oppressors! Any group who wishes to persuade me to do business with them would be wise to make me a convincing offer!"

"M'lord, you're shouting again."

Manga Khan stiffens slightly, then raises his arms to shoulder height and makes an.. odd crackling noise as he slowly lowers them back down again.

"And done. Perfectly calm. Perfectly rational."

"Am I to understand that you will only comply with local laws if those laws provide you with a greater advantage than you could get by operating outside of them?"

Manga Khan waves his right hand, and… Dozens-. Hundreds of messages begin playing, accompanied by holographic representations of the sound wave. They appear to be… People seeking to buy or sell various objects or services. Some are.. purely speculative, and some are offering things which are quite illegal.

"I have the high ground. The racket is in my court, and I am ideally placed to kick it out of the parking lot. Seventeen minor governments have already purchased non-interference contracts. Two more have entered negotiations to rent our surface-to-space lift capacity. And that is ignoring the thousands offering to pay to see us ungarbed."

Mister Luthor's eyes dip for a second. Big countries probably haven't started making overt moves yet, but ClusterCorp has no investment in the Earth's current power balance. Building a satellite is relatively cheap. If countries other than the US could make observation satellite networks… That's an… Interesting leveller.

"As a member of a species that doesn't reproduce sexually, that latter request puzzles me, but a merchant like myself is obliged only to satisfy the demands of the client-base. Lex Luthor, you said that you had an offer for me?"

 

[Cherico]

this right here is why you keep lex Luthor alive, its time for him to save the human race.

 

[RichardWhereat]

7th April
17:57 GMT +2

"As a member of a species that doesn't reproduce sexually, that latter request puzzles me, but a merchant like myself is obliged only to satisfy the demands of the client-base. Lex Luthor, you said that you had an offer for me?"

Click to shrink...

Yes. Lex does have an offer. 20 quid to see him slowly ungarb.

 

[Citizen]

How much karma is Mr. Luthor paying off right now?