With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Vaermina]

Really? A boom tube half way across the universe? Sorry, but THAT would be holding the idiot ball for a god of conquest.

He has renegade in his power. To remove his weapons would say that he is still a threat. To remove his weapons, pause in his current conquest and flee his empire in order to deal with him... Well, probably not good.

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Flee? Why would he have to flee? He could literally just toss the rings through.

And no, removing Renegade's weapons would say Grayven wasn't an idiot. Because even conceptually speaking it's stupid since leaving Renagade's weapons leaves him hope. And people with hope can never be fully conquered.

 

[BR549]

Clearly, Zoat is the New God of Self-Inserts.

 

[PDV]

"No. That's why I want Earth."

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Well, can't fault his logic, I suppose.

 

[Gilhelmi]

When I read the earlier parts when Graven was on Earth-50, I suspected as much that Graven-50 was the SI.

Just the something about people "recognizing" Graven-16 as a Graven seemed a bit to quick.

Mr. Zoat, have we seen the original (non-SI) Graven yet?

 

[Mr Zoat]

When I read the earlier parts when Graven was on Earth-50, I suspected as much that Graven-50 was the SI.

Just the something about people "recognizing" Graven-16 as a Graven seemed a bit to quick.

Mr. Zoat, have we seen the original (non-SI) Graven yet?

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No, you haven't seen Graven yet.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

No, you haven't seen Graven yet.

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wasn't the leader of the citadel in communication with real grayven?

 

[AverusBlack]

wasn't the leader of the citadel in communication with real grayven?

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Yes indeed. Grayven even taunted him a bit with some of the anti-life.

Yucky, that. Depression - especially severe depression - feels like black light, or anti-life to me. But it feels like Grayven can broadcast that feeling if he chooses to and that's what he did. It also nearly made the Zamarons beat the hell out of him but, y'know, learning experiences.

 

[jmartinez8089]

wasn't the leader of the citadel in communication with real grayven?

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Yes indeed. Grayven even taunted him a bit with some of the anti-life.

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Yes but we still haven't seen Graven yet. Now I don't know who that is since I've read the whole story and don't remember him ever being mentioned anywhere but he must have something to do with Grayven or Earth-50 since Mr Zoat is being asked about him now.

 

[Stsword]

wasn't the leader of the citadel in communication with real grayven?

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I do believe that Zoat is having a little fun with the typo and responding with a mathematician's answer.

Grayven has shown up, Graven hasn't.

The fact that DC doesn't have a character called Graven that I'm aware of might have something to do with that.

 

[jmartinez8089]

I do believe that Zoat is having a little fun with the typo and responding with a mathematician's answer.

Grayven has shown up, Graven hasn't.

The fact that DC doesn't have a character called Graven that I'm aware of might have something to do with that.

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Aw did you have to spoil it? I wanted to see how long it took until they realized.

 

[Pinklestia]

"No. That's why I want Earth."

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"Conquest of Earth never ends well, why don't you ask Trigon about that?"

 

[PDV]

I wonder; will this arc will finally clue the Renegade in to the fact that his god-nature isn't Conquest?

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I'm thinking this is 70% likely, maybe? MrZoat are you willing to confirm/deny the Renegade ever learning that his god nature isn't Conquest?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Yes but we still haven't seen Graven yet. Now I don't know who that is since I've read the whole story and don't remember him ever being mentioned anywhere but he must have something to do with Grayven or Earth-50 since Mr Zoat is being asked about him now.

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Aw did you have to spoil it? I wanted to see how long it took until they realized.

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I had considered that and went 'nah, it's probably not that'

 

[Old Knife]

I do believe that Zoat is having a little fun with the typo and responding with a mathematician's answer.

Grayven has shown up, Graven hasn't.

The fact that DC doesn't have a character called Graven that I'm aware of might have something to do with that.

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Yes he has. This love right here.

And there's.. me. Straighter hair than the Universe 16 version, and the armour is a little less ornate, but basically the same in appearance terms. His expression on the other hand… He's genuinely curious, whereas Grayven 16 went right to 'hostile' immediately.

Click to shrink...

 

[Mr Zoat]

I beg
Your pardon?
"Yes, you should."
"At the risk of hypocrisy…"

"I may have left Apokolips long ago, but that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant of what occurs there. Darkseid wanted Earth, valued its acquisition enough to spend significant amounts of time focusing his efforts and those of his Elite in attacking it."

"He got fixated on Kal-El, and took it personally when he didn't easily win. A poor decision on his part." Responsibility of Sagacious Rulership.

"Yes, one of many. But Kal-El is hiding powerless in his arctic hermitage."

"He was hardly the only reason."

"Yes. Kara In-Ze thwarted Darkseid's effort to destroy human civilisation with a comet. But Kara In-Ze is stranded on Thanagar, along with the rest of her Stormwatch colleagues. Not to mention several of the surviving Justice Lords." He gestures to me with his right hand. "And you dealt with SHADE and their Anti-Life fragment. And as for whatever's left… I have a fleet."

"Rayner could get Stormwatch back in plenty of time to attack your ships."

"Yes, and if I hadn't picked him up at the same time I did you, I may have had to hunt him down in person."

"What have you done with him?"

"I have secured him in a cell some distance from yours. Separated from his ring he's little threat."

"Not that I'm ungrateful, but why leave him alive?"

"If I were to kill him, the Guardians would simply anoint a replacement. And most likely revenge themselves upon me. No, far better to hold him incommunicado until after my conquest is complete."

"And… You think that will prevent him acting against you?"

"The Guardians have a record of acting against interstellar conquerors which can at best be described as 'patchy'. Once I establish myself, so long as I do not behave in a completely monstrous manner, it is unlikely that they will take any direct action. Lantern Rayner is far more manageable as a solo agent."

I catch myself about to nod, then nod anyway. Not like I would behave differently if I had his objectives.

"You're conquering Earth because Father couldn't?"

"Why would you assume there to be a single reason? Yes, when I conquer Earth I will prove myself to be a more capable ruler than Darkseid, but more than that: the authority I gain will bring the fools burning Apokolips down around them to heel."

"I suppose that will make it easier for you to kill them."

I blink, but now that I've said it… Yes. I could use a Fury, perhaps even all of them. But Granny Goodness, if she fell into my hands? Desaad? Even if they made willing noises, even if they actually submitted spiritually… They're just too… Not-With-The-Program. They'd take the initiative in stupid situations, monster it up for the heck of it.

Grayven 50 smiles. "Yes, it will. This is genuinely fascinating; I've never encountered anyone quite on my wavelength like this before."

"You implied there was another reason."

"I know what you did for former Green Lantern John Stewart. Humans can become as we are, their souls reforged by the power of the Source. You were right; Apokoliptian technology requires New Gods to use to its fullest extent."

"Human lieutenants can do more for you than gordanians or thanagarians. Lizarkons?"

"No better than the gordanians, and less reliable. It will be a generation before I will be able to trust them with anything significant."

"But do you know how humans get their god-names?"

"Not yet. But there are six and a half billion of them. I'm certain that I'll work it out before their population drops to unsustainable levels."

"Or you could ask for volunteers, which would generate less unrest and make it easier to control the independent variables."

He frowns. "That doesn't sound like me. Why are you so hesitant?"

"Because I'm permanent; here for the long term. Yes, grabbing people off the streets makes a bigger impression but it doesn't get you the solution any faster. With six and a half billion potential volunteers you're not going to run out of willing participants any time soon, and with no other New Gods working with you you'll have to do everything yourself anyway."

"But making an impression makes it easier to ensure compliance with my domain powers."

"Not being an arse about it means that you don't have to use them in the first place."

"That explains your relative inability. Still… There may be something in what you say. How much of the Earth of your parallel have you conquered?"

"I don't directly rule any of it. I've deliberately tried to avoid doing anything so divisive. I'm heavily invested in a few places, but making it look like local work prevents other interested parties complaining too loudly. Ultimately, I want people to acknowledge me as their sovereign because I represent a more appealing prospect than their alternatives. How did you take over the gordanians?"

"I made an offer to the survivors of a small clan, educated them, built them up and then used them to dominate others until I was hailed as Chief of Clan Chiefs."

"You were recognised as legitimate because you co-opted their social conventions. Human society does not have an equivalent mechanism."

"Then I'll build one." He shakes his head. "I'm really not sure why you're so insistent on soft-pedalling them."

"Every time you wilfully, unnecessarily make an enemy, you create an extra opportunity for things to go horribly wrong. Why are you in a hurry? What do you lose by soft-pedalling them?"

"Pride." "Military conquest."

"My Lord Grayven." At the very edge of my vision I see a… Tamaranian woman? "The fleet is ready."

"Good." He turns away from me and activates a view screen. "I am aware that you have been augmenting the Justice Lords' home with Apokoliptian technology. No doubt that was how you arrived on Thanagar without me immediately feeling it." The screen shows a view of space as seen from his ship's approximate position. "And of course that could be used to bring your allies back."

A giant, ship-scale-. No, fleet-scale boom tube opens in the region of space directly in front of the point of view. Through the tube and off to the right I can just about see Earth and its moon, while the foreground is rapidly filled with gordanian ships. Hro Talak's prediction coming true a few months late.

"Target acquired, my lord."

"Charge and fire."

Nothing happens for a moment, then there's an explosion in near-Earth space an instant before a red beam connects it to this ship. The firing pattern of the hyperblaster main gun.

"Advance."

The point of view leaps forward an instant later, the gordanian ships falling aside and…

The wreckage. There isn't all that much left, but… There were only two things of any size in near-Earth orbit. And those parts aren't Thanagarian. He just shot the Watchtower. Rex, Batman, the genomorphs.

Sunset.

I try to stretch out my arms, pushing against whatever energy field is keeping me here! I Will Overcome!

"No, you won't."

Grayven smiles smugly as I make no progress. "Fond of them, were y-?"

"Life=Pain."

 

[Simonbob]

Oh, dear.

Yup, that about sums it up.

 

[Razorfloss]

Ohhh that's not good. He may have inadvertently recreated darkseide or darkseide light at least momentarily and that won't end well for anyone.

 

[Zig]

Guess Renegade is gonna have to send Darkseid 16 a thank you basket when he gets home.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Oh good. Grayven is using the Anti Life. This can only end well.

 

[Ngamer11]

Grayven 16's Godzilla Threshold has been reached. I hope this messes up Grayven 50 and Doctor Impossible beyond anything they could possibly do to Gryaven 16. Would Grayven 50 be horrified or jealous that someone he sees as a sort of inferior version of himself has such power at his command?

 

[Flux Casey]

Sunset.

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It's quite impressive that even for a character I hate this worked to make me care about their death by proxy, in other words because I care about the character that cared about them.

 

[Old Knife]

Oh dear. This universe doesn't have a Darksied.

So

It's going to make one.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Yeah, I cared about her. I hope he slaps Celestia for her.

 

[Old Knife]

Yeah, I cared about her. I hope he slaps Celestia for her.

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I bet she teleported. Because paulven teaches competence.

 

[Imperator Pax]

In the words Abridged Alcuard: "You dun goofed."

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I beg
Your pardon?
"Yes, you should."
"At the risk of hypocrisy…"

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Ha! Is that the first time someone in-story has responded to the date/time value?

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for Length

"I may have left Apokolips long ago, but that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant of what occurs there. Darkseid wanted Earth, valued its acquisition enough to spend significant amounts of time focusing his efforts and those of his Elite in attacking it."

"He got fixated on Kal-El, and took it personally when he didn't easily win. A poor decision on his part." Responsibility of Sagacious Rulership.

Click to shrink...

Well, a strong resistance undermines Tyranny. And Superman is historically a symbol of Hope...

"Yes. Kara In-Ze thwarted Darkseid's effort to destroy human civilisation with a comet. But Kara In-Ze is stranded on Thanagar, along with the rest of her Stormwatch colleagues. Not to mention several of the surviving Justice Lords." He gestures to me with his right hand. "And you dealt with SHADE and their Anti-Life fragment. And as for whatever's left… I have a fleet."

Click to shrink...

Hell, Earth really is helpless right now...

"Rayner could get Stormwatch back in plenty of time to attack your ships."

"Yes, and if I hadn't picked him up at the same time I did you, I may have had to hunt him down in person."

"What have you done with him?"

"I have secured him in a cell some distance from yours. Separated from his ring he's little threat."

Click to shrink...

Damn, that's actually smart... Because:

"Not that I'm ungrateful, but why leave him alive?"

"If I were to kill him, the Guardians would simply anoint a replacement. And most likely revenge themselves upon me. No, far better to hold him incommunicado until after my conquest is complete."

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Ug, this guy is far too sensible.

"And… You think that will prevent him acting against you?"

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If this is referring to Raynor, it's fine, but if he meant the Guardians, it should be 'them'.

"The Guardians have a record of acting against interstellar conquerors which can at best be described as 'patchy'. Once I establish myself, so long as I do not behave in a completely monstrous manner, it is unlikely that they will take any direct action. Lantern Rayner is far more manageable as a solo agent."

Click to shrink...

...Jerkass has a point...

"You're conquering Earth because Father couldn't?"

"Why would you assume there to be a single reason? Yes, when I conquer Earth I will prove myself to be a more capable ruler than Darkseid, but more than that: the authority I gain will bring the fools burning Apokolips down around them to heel."

Click to shrink...

So, not entirely out of Spite.

"I suppose that will make it easier for you to kill them."

I blink, but now that I've said it… Yes. I could use a Fury, perhaps even all of them. But Granny Goodness, if she fell into my hands? Desaad? Even if they made willing noises, even if they actually submitted spiritually… They're just too… Not-With-The-Program. They'd take the initiative in stupid situations, monster it up for the heck of it.

Click to shrink...

Supervillians gonna Supervillian. It's too much in their nature to be back-stabbing, traitorous chucklefucks unless cowed into absolute subservience. And even then...

Grayven 50 smiles. "Yes, it will. This is genuinely fascinating; I've never encountered anyone quite on my wavelength like this before."

Click to shrink...

That 'This is another SI' theory's being given a lot of ammo here.

"You implied there was another reason."

"I know what you did for former Green Lantern John Stewart. Humans can become as we are, their souls reforged by the power of the Source. You were right; Apokoliptian technology requires New Gods to use to its fullest extent."

Click to shrink...

Oh, he has no idea, does he? The Renegade's actually done it a lot. But He's not going to do it for you, numbskull.

"Human lieutenants can do more for you than gordanians or thanagarians. Lizarkons?"

"No better than the gordanians, and less reliable. It will be a generation before I will be able to trust them with anything significant."

Click to shrink...

Give them time to get used to being crushed under a different boot than before, eh? Dumbass, letting his God-aspect do the thinking.

"But do you know how humans get their god-names?"

"Not yet. But there are six and a half billion of them. I'm certain that I'll work it out before their population drops to unsustainable levels."

Click to shrink...

Oooh, that bodes ill...

"Or you could ask for volunteers, which would generate less unrest and make it easier to control the independent variables."

He frowns. "That doesn't sound like me. Why are you so hesitant?"

"Because I'm permanent; here for the long term. Yes, grabbing people off the streets makes a bigger impression but it doesn't get you the solution any faster. With six and a half billion potential volunteers you're not going to run out of willing participants anytime soon, and with no other New Gods working with you you'll have to do everything yourself anyway."

"But making an impression makes it easier to ensure compliance with my domain powers."

"Not being an arse about it means that you don't have to use them in the first place."

Click to shrink...

Heh, the fundamental difference between them. Grayven-50 wants Vassals. Renegade wants Followers.

"I don't directly rule any of it. I've deliberately tried to avoid doing anything so divisive. I'm heavily invested in a few places, but making it look like local work prevents other interested parties complaining too loudly. Ultimately, I want people to acknowledge me as their sovereign because I represent a more appealing prospect than their alternatives. How did you take over the gordanians?"

"I made an offer to the survivors of a small clan, educated them, built them up and then used them to dominate others until I was hailed as Chief of Clan Chiefs."

"You were recognised as legitimate because you co-opted their social conventions. Human society does not have an equivalent mechanism."

Click to shrink...

Acquisition vs Conquest.

"Then I'll build one." He shakes his head. "I'm really not sure why you're so insistent on soft-pedalling them."

"Every time you wilfully, unnecessarily make an enemy, you create an extra opportunity for things to go horribly wrong. Why are you in a hurry? What do you lose by soft-pedalling them?"

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Yes, Humans don't respond well to an outside force attempting Conquest. History has shown that so well on the tribal and national levels.

"Good." He turns away from me and activates a view screen. "I am aware that you have been augmenting the Justice Lords' home with Apokoliptian technology. No doubt that was how you arrived on Thanagar without me immediately feeling it." The screen shows a view of space as seen from his ship's approximate position. "And of course that could be used to bring your allies back."

Click to shrink...

Uh-oh.

A giant, ship-scale-. No, fleet-scale boom tube opens in the region of space directly in front of the point of view. Through the tube and off to the right I can just about see Earth and its moon, while the foreground is rapidly filled with gordanian ships. Hro Talak's prediction coming true a few months late.

Click to shrink...

UH-OH...

"Target acquired, my lord."

"Charge and fire."

Nothing happens for a moment, then there's an explosion in near-Earth space an instant before a red beam connects it to this ship. The firing pattern of the hyperblaster main gun.

Click to shrink...

Oh crap.

The wreckage. There isn't all that much left, but… There were only two things of any size in near-Earth orbit. And those parts aren't Thanagarian. He just shot the Watchtower. Rex, Batman, the genomorphs.

Sunset.

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Oh, he done fucked UP! No-one messes with the Renegade's stuff!

I try to stretch out my arms, pushing against whatever energy field is keeping me here! I Will Overcome!

"No, you won't."

Grayven smiles smugly as I make no progress. "Fond of them, were y-?"

"Life=Pain."

Click to shrink...

Yup, Godzilla Threshold passed. Things are going to get... Messy.

And I get the feeling the title of the episode wasn't referring to Sunset at all... Unless she had a sudden breakthrough... It's referring to the Renegade...

Godspeech:

I beg
Your pardon?
"Yes, you should."
"At the risk of hypocrisy…"

Click to shrink...

"He got fixated on Kal-El, and took it personally when he didn't easily win. A poor decision on his part." Responsibility of Sagacious Rulership.

Click to shrink...

"Every time you wilfully, unnecessarily make an enemy, you create an extra opportunity for things to go horribly wrong. Why are you in a hurry? What do you lose by soft-pedalling them?"

"Pride." "Military conquest."

Click to shrink...

I try to stretch out my arms, pushing against whatever energy field is keeping me here! I Will Overcome!

"No, you won't."

Grayven smiles smugly as I make no progress. "Fond of them, were y-?"

Click to shrink...

 

[Radiant Knight]

OH BOY IT'S HAPPENING.

Good to see Paulven breaking out the big guns.

 

[BR549]

I'm expecting Gravy to return home to find he owns a new couch, upon which is a note from Darkseid simply saying "you're welcome".

Also, with regards to the Watchtower...well magic bubbles are a thing and it wouldn't be the first time an Apokalyptian blew up an Earth vessel with no casualties among its crew.

 

[Queshire]

Ohhhhhhh... That was Renegade's piece? For some reason I thought it was Impossible or Grayven using a new piece on him.

 

[BR549]

Ohhhhhhh... That was Renegade's piece? For some reason I thought it was Impossible or Grayven using a new piece on him.

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Context; it cuts off Grayven-50's gloating and if Doctor Impossible was anti-lifed it would have already been obvious.