With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

jasonh23761 · Jan 4, 2022

I swear, Atom Man is determined to give me mood whiplash every other sentence.

hance1986 · Jan 4, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"I will do that. Will we need human sacrifices?"

"I… Really hope not?"

"I ask because we don't have any detainment centres near here, so if you want them here within an hour we should notify them now."

That's how they think. Magic is for the weak minded until the demons come and then it's all lets go find some meat for the machine.

Ngamer11 · Jan 4, 2022

Has Paul told anyone on Earth 16 what would happen if the golden lasso were to break? Because the truth becoming whatever anyone says or thinks of as the truth is really bad.

Queshire · Jan 4, 2022

They say that possession is 9/10s of the law, and... hey, the wonder women have just taken possession of the lasso back.

Z000 · Jan 4, 2022

how does he even know that

is there a comic issue where some one actually broke the lasso and reality shit itself ?

Ngamer11 · Jan 4, 2022

Z000 said:
how does he even know that

is there a comic issue where some one actually broke the lasso and reality shit itself ?

Yes. I believe it was in JLA. The same event sort of happened in this story, but it never got that far thanks to Paul being there to act as a moderator.

Edit: Found it. It was in JLA: Golden Perfect.

Chojin Patriarch · Jan 4, 2022

It happened in the same issue of Justice League that introduced Rama Khan. Basically, both he and the mother of the child he chose as his successor believed they were telling the absolute Truth, and Diana couldn't reconcile it, causing the 'Golden Perfect' of the lasso to shatter.
Things got worse in the next issue, as reality starts being defined by belief, up to and including the Earth briefly turning flat.
The final issue of the story wraps it up as Diana manages to sort things out, and reassemble the Lasso. Unfortunately, Rama Khan's kingdom doesn't survive the process...
(Commentary soonish!)

Handlewithcare · Jan 4, 2022

Oh here's a thought: what if they have to go to Hell as part of figuring out ewhat happened and the Nazis see that Hitler and all their heroes are there being tortured while all their victims were sent to heaven?

I would just love to see their faces...

Ngamer11 · Jan 4, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Oh here's a thought: what if they have to go to Hell as part of figuring out ewhat happened and the Nazis see that Hitler and all their heroes are there being tortured while all their victims were sent to heaven?

I would just love to see their faces...

They'd denounce it as some sort of magic trickery. Nothing short of having the truth literally inserted into their minds will work. Maybe the lasso will do just that here.

Darko · Jan 4, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"A golem? I've had bad experiences-."

I remember Angelika mentioning something about sand monsters in Africa.

Mr Zoat said:
Wrong god

So not from Africa, but Jewish golem. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mr Zoat said:
"It appears to be a magic artefact, and causes psychological harm to anyone who touches it.

Yeah, it can show people their true selves.

Guess Nazis don't like to see their true selves.

Mr Zoat said:
"Don't try and destroy it. I've seen what happens, it's not good

The whole reality breaking down thing.

Mr Zoat said:
Atom Man's eyes follow her as she vanishes from sight.

"No, no, that's fine. Is she married?"

Yeah, she'd probably be about as interested in marrying him as she would be interested in marrying Herakles.

Mr Zoat said:
Artemis narrows her eyes. "You aren't getting it back."

"Artemis, were you listening to me.

She was, she just doesn't care.

Cuchulin · Jan 4, 2022

Darko said:
Yeah, it can show people their true selves.
Guess Nazis don't like to see their true selves.

More likely it shows them how much of what they know is a lie and stupid.

Michael Vonica · Jan 4, 2022

Does the lasso breaking unwind the reality of Earth? Or of the universe? Or of everything that exists?

Cuchulin · Jan 4, 2022

Michael Vonica said:
Does the lasso breaking unwind the reality of Earth? Or of the universe? Or of everything that exists?

Probably a relatively localized effect that doesn't reach beyond the edge of the solar system at most.

rkyeun · Jan 4, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
Because the truth becoming whatever anyone says or thinks of as the truth is really bad.

That's just like, your opinion, man. In my reality it's working great because I believe it would. Which I choose to believe because I would rather it work great. And since that is in fact how it works, we have no problem.

hkim · Jan 4, 2022

hance1986 said:
That's how they think. Magic is for the weak minded until the demons come and then it's all lets go find some meat for the machine.

Fuckin' Nazis, I stg

Darko · Jan 4, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Artemis, were you listening to me. We

'to me?'

Mr Zoat said:
We haven't agreed any terms

'to any terms'

Alasnuyo · Jan 4, 2022

Speaking of truth, a good way towards reforming Earth-10's society would be to find the local Spear of Destiny and get Diana to inject some Truth into it. Might do that world a whole lot of good if that remark about the lasso is anything to go with.

Ngamer11 · Jan 4, 2022

Alasnuyo said:
Speaking of truth, a good way towards reforming Earth-10's society would be to find the local Spear of Destiny and get Diana to inject some Truth into it. Might do that world a whole lot of good if that remark about the lasso is anything to go with.

Or it might lead to mass suicides. Either way, Earth 10 would be a better place, relatively.

Darko · Jan 4, 2022

Alasnuyo said:
Speaking of truth, a good way towards reforming Earth-10's society would be to find the local Spear of Destiny and get Diana to inject some Truth into it. Might do that world a whole lot of good if that remark about the lasso is anything to go with.

This could work and it may just be the least bloodiest option available for reforming the place that's also bound to work.

Ngamer11 said:
Or it might lead to mass suicides. Either way, Earth 10 would be a better place, relatively.

On the other hand there's this.

And a number of the people that commit suicide, actually make that most of them, may be people whose greatest crime is believing in the crap of Nazism, rather than actually hurting people, since I doubt those that actually engage in the murder and torture of people can feel shame or regret anymore, if they ever could at all.

But, yeah, it's probably the best way.

Chojin Patriarch · Jan 4, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
16th September 2012
23:37 GMT +1

Atom Man watches as I bring the plane construct in to land on the Wewelsburg landing area. Diana looks godly in her golden orichalcum armour, even if she's going to reek of sweat in an hour or so. Wonder Woman 10 -her name's Artemis, and I kind of remember an Amazon by that name- looks like a Wonder Woman.

So, not quite the golden eagle armour for either of them. Kind of surprised they didn't 'add a little hot-rod red in there'... But painting it would probably waste time.After all, Diana's likely be throwing hands against Demon-Superman, and that's probably not conducive to maintaining a good finish on her new armour.

"Orange Lantern. You were successful, or are these friends from your home country?"

"Both. Allow me to properly introduce Princess Diana of Themyscira Six Six Six-" A number which was just asking for something like this to happen. "-and Artemis of Themyscira Ten."

I plan to keep calling it Earth-Hell, since that's basically what it is right now... Still, amusing that he points that out, if only in his head.

He regards them each for a moment.

"And what is their racial background?"

And of course he's concerned about that. Worried about your racial purity being defiled by associating with a couple of beautiful - if 'subhuman' - women?

…

Because he's a Nazi. I sigh internally and scan Artemis.

Still, if it gets him to be willing to work with you... Or rather, get his kryptonite lasers on your side...

"Ah… The red head appears to be a mixture of Middle-Eastern and European descent and the Princess is… Clay brought to life by the Hellenistic gods, so I don't know what that counts as?"

"A golem? I've had bad experiences-."

Because the original Golem tale is a Jewish thing. I would not be surprised if Jewish communities somewhere actually did send some into battle against the Nazis.

"Wrong god. Look, do you have some sort of museum for equipment taken from Allied superheroes during the Second World War?"

"Museum? No. We have research laboratories, but everything from the Second Great War has been studied extensively. Anything that wasn't destroyed would be in secure storage."

...Okay. To save time: Where?

"Can you check whether that includes a golden lasso? You were right, there was a Wonder Woman who fought for the allies, and if any of her equipment survived-."

"Then we would keep it and not return it to the allies of our former enemies."

Not the time for a dick-waving contest, man.

"Have you checked? Because if you haven't got it, then this will be a pointless argument."

"Hold on." He's quiet for several moment. "Yes. Ah. Under the circumstances, I believe that we can release it to you."

Oh, thank you, gracious sir knight... You aren't getting it back, though, so don't ask.

"Oh?"

"It appears to be a magic artefact, and causes psychological harm to anyone who touches it. We tried to destroy it several times"

Gee, who'd have thought seeing the unabashed Truth about yourself would be painfully deleterious to your mental health?

"Don't try and destroy it. I've seen what happens, it's not good."

"The researchers got interested when they couldn't, but they couldn't get a sample of the material. It's actually on the site, if-."

As mentioned earlier, that is the whole drama of the 'Golden Perfect' storyline in JLA. It was especially amusing to see the Justice League of the time reduced to their public perception selves. Poor Kyle Rayner briefly turned into Hal Jordan!

There's a bang and a crash and shouts from somewhere south of us, then Diana and Artemis fly back onto the landing pad. Diana has the lasso twisted around her right arm and Artemis dusts some brick dust off her right shoulder.

"I have it."

...Not wasting any time, I see. Though I suspect the Nazi's might be a little upset by the noise...

"Diana, I understand how important the lasso is in Amazon culture, but we're going to have to persuade groups of people who don't like each other to work together to make this work, and it would be helpful if you didn't demolish their buildings."

"No, no." Atom Man is studying her. "National Socialist ideology respects strength. And she's the first person we've seen who could wield it since the original Wonder Woman. It's worthwhile data."

...I repeat, you are not getting it back. Hang your 'data'...

Artemis narrows her eyes. "You aren't getting it back."

"Artemis, were you listening to me. We haven't agreed any terms, and committing yourself to a position at this point…"

Let it go, OL. You're just pissing into the wind at this point.

She floats upwards and then shoots into the air with a sneer.

"I'm sorry about-."

Presumably not interested in the local odours? If you know what I mean? <casts side-eyes at Atom Man...>

Atom Man's eyes follow her as she vanishes from sight.

"No, no, that's fine. Is she married?"

...Why did I know he was going to say that? Figures, he's an amazon chaser.

Diana's jaw tightens.

"Um. I.. didn't think-."

"She's European. It doesn't matter if she comes from an isolated island somewhere. She can learn culture."

...Two words for you, Atom boy: Homonormative. Culture.

"I don't think it would work, and please leave off pursuing her until after the mission is complete."

"Who is in command here?"

Yeah, That twanging sound was Diana's last straw snapping like a high-tension cable...

Atom Man turns back to Diana. "The Bat. But he's an old man and he's in bed. Donner should have heard-."

Ms. Brauer lands on the landing pad, clenches her fists as she sees Diana and then relaxes slightly as she sees me.

"Oh, it's just you. I thought something actually dangerous was happening..." But decent response time, given she was likely resting?

"Lantern?"

"Restoring Diana was completely successful. Glad to see that you're feeling better. I also got a magic user, though one of my-"

Ah, Magala agreed to take a trip? Hope you got someone on duty to guard the squishy wizard.

Magala nervously sticks her head out of the construct aircraft.

"-other possibles turned me down."

...Best she keeps her hood up, I think, given her usual depiction on the comics (a dark-skinned, heavy-browed woman, since she was originally written as a reborn Neanderthal.)

Ms. Brauer walks up to Diana and extends her right hand.

"Hallo. I'm Donner."

Probably a good thing she's in the closet, and in a committed relationship, or her next words might well be "Are you doing anything after this? Because I'm available." She might still want to watch out for that lasso...

Diana steps forward to shake the proffered limb. "Diana. Will you be taking part in the attack?"

"That's what I'm for. Is the lasso part of the plan for defeating the Over Overman?"

Presumably, her plan is to tie him in it and force him to reveal how he changed. And then force the cause out of him...

"It might be. The lasso is unbreakable. We might be able to use it to restrain Superman." She turns to me. "What do you mean, you know what happens if it breaks?"

"The concept of truth breaks down and reality becomes perception. Please don't break it. And please accept that however much you don't like it, if someone bound by it says something then they're speaking the truth."

Fortunately, it didn't play out like that in the Earth-16 Jarhanpur situation. Thanks to OL's diplomatic intervention, at least.

"That sounded specific. How do you know-?"

"This isn't my first parallel universe. Things happen. Donner, is the wizard awake yet?"

Of course, nothing means he has to say which universe he saw it happen in.

"Yes, but he's not very coherent."

Diana nods. "I will talk to him. Perhaps our shared experiences will enable me able to reach him."

And if that fails, an application of Truth might help.

"I'll prepare a ritual space for him to work. Atom Man, can you tell the garrison commander to work with me? I suspect that we'll need fortifications, and I imagine you'd prefer it if they weren't AI controlled."

"I will do that. Will we need human sacrifices?"

...Oh, yeah. Because why would Wolf Kreiger have a portal spell that didn't cause as much suffering as possible to someone? That might be well why the Kryptonians haven't come through yet: Superman-16 would be more than a little reluctant to see someone die for it...

"I… Really hope not?"

"I ask because we don't have any detainment centres near here, so if you want them here within an hour we should notify them now."

"Let's-. Let's not jump the gun. I'll get to work."

And even then, you might want to check a death-row prisoner's credentials before using him as fuel... I have no doubt the Nazis have different opinions on what constitutes capital crimes around here...

Well, looks like it's just down to getting the former Kid Crusader of Earth-Hell to open a portal. The issue will be if he's willing to do it, much less able to without shedding blood. Keeping in mind the state Supergirl-Hell was left in after her impromptu cleansing... And even if he's in his right mind, he may not want to do it, if only to avoid the chance of being dragged back there.

Is the lasso part of the plan for defeating the Over Overman?

Feels kind of awkward. Perhaps 'other' or 'evil' might work better?

RocjawCypher · Jan 4, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
16th September 2012
23:37 GMT +1
to anyone who touches it. We tried to destroy it several times"."

"Let's-. Let's not jump the gun. I'll get to work."

I am very, very excited for the end of talking to Nazis. Do I understand that "In Universe" there are reasons to meet with the Nazis and treat with the Nazis and not wipe their leadership from the planet or leave? Sure. Am I enjoying the fact that this is the direction the story took? Not as such. There are other ways we could have gone, and I hope that in later chapters we avoid revisiting this type of narrative. It just feels kinda gross and uncomfortable. Still, hope the chapters flow smooth and I look forward to the next storyline.

Darko · Jan 4, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not the time for a dick-waving contest, man

The Nazis were kinda famous for those to the point it became official policy.

Seriously, Hitler had his subordinates compete with each other and created departments that seemingly got in each other's way, while making it difficult for them to negotiate with each other so they could come to a reasonable compromise, as well as creating a lot of redundant systems for no reason.

All of this was done partly for the Nazi belief of strength ruling over weakness, since the ones that won would prove themselves to be stronger and more competent, and the bigger reason was because Hitler feared that his subordinates would overthrow him if they could actually cooperate.

So, yeah, dick-waving contests were actually official Nazi policy.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Poor Kyle Rayner briefly turned into Hal Jordan!

That poor bastard.

Chojin Patriarch said:
...Two words for you, Atom boy: Homonormative. Culture

And I doubt that Artemis would care about the Nazi's version of culture.

Doccer · Jan 4, 2022

Z000 said:
how does he even know that

is there a comic issue where some one actually broke the lasso and reality shit itself ?

There's also the Red Son story line with Soviet Superman. Diana breaks the Lasso with a muscle flex and declaring her mother was right. Don't know what actually happened to her but she gets white hair and kinda old.

But she seems to have something later on? Never read the comic so there are likely details missing from the animated version.

Mr Zoat said:
And please accept that however much you don't like it, if someone bound by it says something then they're speaking the truth."

Chojin Patriarch said:
It happened in the same issue of Justice League that introduced Rama Khan. Basically, both he and the mother of the child he chose as his successor believed they were telling the absolute Truth, and Diana couldn't reconcile it, causing the 'Golden Perfect' of the lasso to shatter.
Things got worse in the next issue, as reality starts being defined by belief, up to and including the Earth briefly turning flat.
The final issue of the story wraps it up as Diana manages to sort things out, and reassemble the Lasso. Unfortunately, Rama Khan's kingdom doesn't survive the process...
(Commentary soonish!)

Didn't know that. I just assumed it was "If it was for the lasso of truth compelling only the truth I wouldn't believe it" practically being a catch phrase of hers from the comments. Or so I have heard. So he was saying that to head off those wasted seconds.
Also: Mr Zoat ?
I've come to a horrible realization: The Life Entity. The thing that birthed the others and tied to Life of the whole entire universe chills out in Earth yeh? What if all that demon power corrupts the Life Entity? Demon Universe. (个_个) OMG that terrifying.

Old Knife · Jan 4, 2022

jasonh23761 said:
I swear, Atom Man is determined to give me mood whiplash every other sentence.

Paul getting a taste of own medicine is as bittersweet as I thought it would be. I did not anticipate it coming from the Nazi's.

Cuchulin · Jan 4, 2022

Old Knife said:
Paul getting a taste of own medicine is as bittersweet as I thought it would be. I did not anticipate it coming from the Nazi's.

In other words... You did Nazi that coming?

Darko · Jan 4, 2022

Doccer said:
I've come to a horrible realization: The Life Entity. The thing that birthed the others and tied to Life of the whole entire universe chills out in Earth yeh? What if all that demon power corrupts the Life Entity? Demon Universe. (个_个) OMG that terrifying

That may not happen either because the Life Entity isn't on Earth, the demons can't access it, or it can't be corrupted.

Nervaqus987 · Jan 4, 2022

Darko said:
That may not happen either because the Life Entity isn't on Earth, the demons can't access it, or it can't be corrupted.

At the very least, the Guardians are aware of what's going on there and haven't done anything yet beyond putting a travel lockdown on Earth.

That does imply that all the demonic bullshit isn't a threat to the Life Entity in the immediate sense(or at least, as the Guardians define "immediate").

If they felt otherwise, they'd probably go in themselves and bring most of the Corps with them given how important it is for the Life Entity to go unfucked with.

PDV · Jan 4, 2022

Queshire said:
They say that possession is 9/10s of the law, and... hey, the wonder women have just taken possession of the lasso back.

Points. Nine points of the law. The meaning is that of the basic legal principles in British law (depending on the era and source, there were anywhere from nine to twelve, though the saying makes no sense with nine), nine of them were about how to adjudicate who has possession of a thing. Because possession is complicated. This is almost the literal opposite of what people use it to mean now.

Chojin Patriarch said:
...Best she keeps her hood up, I think, given her usual depiction on the comics (a dark-skinned, heavy-browed woman, since she was originally written as a reborn Neanderthal.)

RocjawCypher said:
I am very, very excited for the end of talking to Nazis.

But it's fucking hilarious, though. You just can't beat genuine seems-like-it-works-to-me Nazis for absolute deadpan, entirely sincere delivery of wild batshit statements that not even Paul can see coming.

Akshka · Jan 4, 2022

Literally every time I read I think "wow who knew Nazi's were pieces of shit" also I didn't know that the lasso was so important to the foundation of the universe.........should she like put it in a box or something to keep it safe?

Senevri · Jan 4, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Basically, both he and the mother of the child he chose as his successor believed they were telling the absolute Truth, and Diana couldn't reconcile it, causing the 'Golden Perfect' of the lasso to shatter.

Wow. Comics are stupid.
I mean, I have no issue with the lasso breaking being conceptual hax bad, but it broke because someone believed really hard they were right? Sheesh!
People believe untrue things all the time. The lasso should break nearly weekly by that logic.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster

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I am always here

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Making the rounds.

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I trust you know where the happy button is?

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Revelation That Uncertainty Is Itself An Answer

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