Mr Zoat
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As far as I remember, when he lost the rings he had to track them down manually.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- Tags
- self insert young justice
Cuchulin
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Actually they were part of Alien Spaceship and he could use them mostly because he had learned how, the Draconic Aliens could use them as could other people if they knew how, in the cartoon at least he ended up killing or at least knocking out a rich guy who bought it at auction because they guy wouldn't give it up willingly.
That what I remember as well, he may have had some connection to them that gave him some idea where they were as I don't it was really sad how he tracked them down again.
hance1986
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' hot '
Maxx Crowley
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So the origins of the Mandarin rings have changed several times. Originally they served as the controls for an advanced alien ship. Here, they are vessels for ancient cosmic spirits. In their most recent incarnations, they were sentient and actively sought out users, as well as capable of communicating with one another. It's never really known if they're tech or magic for sure.
I'm trying to find the panels, as I've always liked the Mandarin's rings, despite not being much of an Iron man fan.
But yeah, it might have not been in the show, thus wouldn't be a thing in universe I guess.
Though I do know that, historically, if you had one of his rings, and he came calling, he'd just rip the ring clean off of you much like OL did to Truggs.
Granted, Rogue is much more durable....so who knows?
All I remember is that he tends to mind control/dominate the people around him with ease. With his....white light ring I think? Like this guy. Or that time He did it to his own son.
Granted, he was using his rings at the time. So I Dunno.
All I know is that, were I Paul, I would much rather have Stark come up with something than hand over one of Mandarin's rings to someone I care about. He'll come calling sooner or later even if he can't take over her through his ring.
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Stsword
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The Mandarin had a mind transfer device.
When he lay dying, he used the device to transfer his mind into the rings themselves, making him a technological lich.
When Yellow Claw's minion put on the rings, Mandarin possessed his body and used the matter ring to make his new body look like his original.
When the Mandarin loans out the rings to his minions, the rings would teleport back to him if the minion was killed or knocked unconscious.
In a Marvel Now storyline, it's shown that the rings have a telepathic network.
Of course, it's up to you if any of those things are even remotely possible in your version of the X-Men cartoon.
Oh and if you want to prove Stark wrong about how much Mandarin knows about Makluan technology, in the comics he knew enough to reverse engineer his rings to make Swordsman's sword that could do- force beams, disintegration rays, flame jets, electrical blasts, or knockout gas.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Cuchulin
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I was talking about what happened in the Iron Man cartoon where none of that happened.
Coda
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As amusing as it is to think of Orange Lantern winning the fight before his opponent even finishes entering the battlefield, I do believe that War Machine was more likely to brake.
ForeverShogo
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Yeah. A bunch of the stuff people are talking about are things comic book Mandarin could do, but not cartoon Mandarin.
Comics Mandarin developed his mastery over to the rings that you explicitly can not use them without his permission. Cartoon Mandarin can easily have his rings taken from him and used against him.
Though I suppose, in theory, Mandarin could just use the mind control ring to force Rogue to return the ring to him if it came down to it. Though I'm sure there's some trick to it that lets people tell him to fuck off or it'd be stupid easy for him to win if he can just mind whammy his enemies.
Comics Mandarin developed his mastery over to the rings that you explicitly can not use them without his permission. Cartoon Mandarin can easily have his rings taken from him and used against him.
Though I suppose, in theory, Mandarin could just use the mind control ring to force Rogue to return the ring to him if it came down to it. Though I'm sure there's some trick to it that lets people tell him to fuck off or it'd be stupid easy for him to win if he can just mind whammy his enemies.
nick012000
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I suspect that if the Mandarin tried that, Professor X would be able to detect and stop it.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Back Door (part 6)
Mr Zoat
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9th July 2012
00:01 GMT
"…which is pretty much the state of things today."
…
I think… It would have been interesting, if he wasn't assuming that I knew a lot more about this world's history and culture than I do. That ignorance -even with my rings frantically dumping bits of social and historical information into my brain and giving me a headache- meant that I simply lacked the cultural context to understand most of the last two hours.
I suppose that a misleadingly named political party shouldn't surprise me. Before the last two hours happened, if I'd had to explain what I thought 'dynamistic functionalism' was, I'd probably have guessed something along the lines of Krypton's musical councils system. The Science Council oversees the scientists, but the extent of that oversight is controlled by a popular ballot, thus granting dynamism to a system arranged around function.
It turns out that the local version of dynamistic functionalism is neither functional nor particularly dynamic. At the intellectual end, they appear to be in favour of something a little like pre-World War Two American Technocratism, with a unified management group that comes from… Somewhere? I'm not sure where, because they appear to be fairly against people having input on areas of society outside of their personal experience. But from what I could pick out, their support base is generally amongst people who want a group installed that can fix the issue of the day quickly and that's it, while the majority of their civilisation is happy with a decentralised but slow system.
I think.
I can't tell whether Lantern Gozzi's eyes are glassy because she's been stupefied or because she's fact checking.
"Gosh, that was detailed. I'm very impressed that you were able to do a speech like that off the cuff."
"Thanks. It's nice-. I mean, Dad said I probably shouldn't just, you know, talk continuously like that, because…" He shrugs awkwardly. "Some people find it off-putting…"
"And in a social context he's probably right, but this is a business context and I do actually need to know-" -about four percent of- "-that. But that.. doesn't really tell me why you're against war with the Reach. Surely, if in the opinion of your military officers, whose function it relates to, the Reach are a threat to your civilisation, it shouldn't be a problem. I mean, do you have military experience?"
"No, but, that's not the point. As outsiders, we can't break alien civilisation up into parts in the way we can our own. We haven't lived their lives. Any analysis we could make would be hopelessly flawed. And none of our military leaders have tried."
"The Reach do have a bit of a habit of mind controlling people who try that sort of thing."
"Except again, we're forced to view those claims outside their cultural and species context. If the Maltusians are so concerned about mind control, why do they issue their elite forces like you with weapons whose secondary function is mind control? I don't know. I'm not Maltusian. Maybe it'd make more sense to me if I was a billion years old. But I'm not and never will be."
"So… Okay. Um. What… Do you want in relation to the Reach?"
"Nothing. If they actually attacked us that… That would be different. But we're attacking a society we can't understand in their own territory."
"Their own territory, which is significantly larger than it was… Say… A hundred years ago."
"They clearly have a very successful social paradigm."
…
Not untrue. But the important thing is that he genuinely believes this, and scans don't show any of the markers for Reach control mechanisms. And given his people's history, there appears to be a base of popular support for the local anti-war movement. Which means that this isn't my problem, it's the local government's problem. Probably best fixed by… Having them broadcast refugee interviews? I doubt that we'll convert the hardcore of political devotees, but if they go back to their historical…
I consider the building, and their recent levels of political support.
"Is this building new?"
"The building, no. We only moved in recently, though. We needed the extra space for all the extra coordination work we're doing. This is pretty much the anti-war headquarters for the whole planet! Which is… Why you coming here made-. Um. Put everyone on edge."
Ah, yes. That's a familiar tune. People joining up with one group in opposition to its obvious rival, whether or not they agree with or are even aware of its wider platform. But again, so far so humanoid normal.
"I don't really know how political funding works around here. Do your new members pay… Subscription fees?"
"Oh, members of deliberative bodies get money for staff in relation to their government work, but the movement is entirely donation-funded. All those records are publically available if you want to check them."
Ring, acquire their account data and identify discrepancies-.
How depressingly familiar.
"There do appear to be some… Donations, large ones, from non-local donors..?"
"Yeah, probably."
"I hope you can understand that it doesn't really… It's not really transparent if you don't know who-."
"Oh, it's probably the Reach."
I.. blink at that.
"You know that for a.. fact?"
"No, of course not. Taking direct donations from someone we're at war with is very illegal. But it's not like anyone can work out exactly the 'origin' of money that's passed through a lot of different hands. I mean, at what point do you stop, right? And our supporters -ones we can track- do make up most of our increased income. But lump sum donations when we became the leading anti-war party after our planetary government committed to L.E.G.I.O.N. membership? It wasn't hard to guess. And…"
For the first time since he started talking, he looks nervously in the direction of the main hiding place of most of his colleagues.
"'Guess'… I don't know or have any direct contact with any Reach person, so I could be wrong…"
I shake my head. "I'd probably assume that it's the Reach too. Both in your position and in my position. But can I.. assume that you're just interested in legal and peaceful political activism?"
"Of course."
"Then that's completely fine. And can I also assume that there won't be a problem with a representative of L.E.G.I.O.N. visiting… Well, arranging a meeting and discussing your complaints further at some point in the future?"
He takes a moment to look for a verbal trap.
"No..?"
"Excellent. It's been a pleasure to have met you. Please pass on my apologies to your colleagues for so disturbing them. We'll see ourselves out."
I turn around and lead-. Follow Lantern Gozzi out of the door. She leads the way to the far side of the street before stopping.
"I hope that your empathic abilities enabled you to get something out of that."
"His beliefs are genuine and natural. Looking around…" I unfocus my eyes as I try to apply empathic vision to the entire planetary population. Not precise, but… "I think their recent increase in support is as well. We'll need to trace that funding-."
"Already done."
"Then we'll pay the sources a visit, then follow up with the planetary government."
00:01 GMT
"…which is pretty much the state of things today."
…
I think… It would have been interesting, if he wasn't assuming that I knew a lot more about this world's history and culture than I do. That ignorance -even with my rings frantically dumping bits of social and historical information into my brain and giving me a headache- meant that I simply lacked the cultural context to understand most of the last two hours.
I suppose that a misleadingly named political party shouldn't surprise me. Before the last two hours happened, if I'd had to explain what I thought 'dynamistic functionalism' was, I'd probably have guessed something along the lines of Krypton's musical councils system. The Science Council oversees the scientists, but the extent of that oversight is controlled by a popular ballot, thus granting dynamism to a system arranged around function.
It turns out that the local version of dynamistic functionalism is neither functional nor particularly dynamic. At the intellectual end, they appear to be in favour of something a little like pre-World War Two American Technocratism, with a unified management group that comes from… Somewhere? I'm not sure where, because they appear to be fairly against people having input on areas of society outside of their personal experience. But from what I could pick out, their support base is generally amongst people who want a group installed that can fix the issue of the day quickly and that's it, while the majority of their civilisation is happy with a decentralised but slow system.
I think.
I can't tell whether Lantern Gozzi's eyes are glassy because she's been stupefied or because she's fact checking.
"Gosh, that was detailed. I'm very impressed that you were able to do a speech like that off the cuff."
"Thanks. It's nice-. I mean, Dad said I probably shouldn't just, you know, talk continuously like that, because…" He shrugs awkwardly. "Some people find it off-putting…"
"And in a social context he's probably right, but this is a business context and I do actually need to know-" -about four percent of- "-that. But that.. doesn't really tell me why you're against war with the Reach. Surely, if in the opinion of your military officers, whose function it relates to, the Reach are a threat to your civilisation, it shouldn't be a problem. I mean, do you have military experience?"
"No, but, that's not the point. As outsiders, we can't break alien civilisation up into parts in the way we can our own. We haven't lived their lives. Any analysis we could make would be hopelessly flawed. And none of our military leaders have tried."
"The Reach do have a bit of a habit of mind controlling people who try that sort of thing."
"Except again, we're forced to view those claims outside their cultural and species context. If the Maltusians are so concerned about mind control, why do they issue their elite forces like you with weapons whose secondary function is mind control? I don't know. I'm not Maltusian. Maybe it'd make more sense to me if I was a billion years old. But I'm not and never will be."
"So… Okay. Um. What… Do you want in relation to the Reach?"
"Nothing. If they actually attacked us that… That would be different. But we're attacking a society we can't understand in their own territory."
"Their own territory, which is significantly larger than it was… Say… A hundred years ago."
"They clearly have a very successful social paradigm."
…
Not untrue. But the important thing is that he genuinely believes this, and scans don't show any of the markers for Reach control mechanisms. And given his people's history, there appears to be a base of popular support for the local anti-war movement. Which means that this isn't my problem, it's the local government's problem. Probably best fixed by… Having them broadcast refugee interviews? I doubt that we'll convert the hardcore of political devotees, but if they go back to their historical…
I consider the building, and their recent levels of political support.
"Is this building new?"
"The building, no. We only moved in recently, though. We needed the extra space for all the extra coordination work we're doing. This is pretty much the anti-war headquarters for the whole planet! Which is… Why you coming here made-. Um. Put everyone on edge."
Ah, yes. That's a familiar tune. People joining up with one group in opposition to its obvious rival, whether or not they agree with or are even aware of its wider platform. But again, so far so humanoid normal.
"I don't really know how political funding works around here. Do your new members pay… Subscription fees?"
"Oh, members of deliberative bodies get money for staff in relation to their government work, but the movement is entirely donation-funded. All those records are publically available if you want to check them."
Ring, acquire their account data and identify discrepancies-.
How depressingly familiar.
"There do appear to be some… Donations, large ones, from non-local donors..?"
"Yeah, probably."
"I hope you can understand that it doesn't really… It's not really transparent if you don't know who-."
"Oh, it's probably the Reach."
I.. blink at that.
"You know that for a.. fact?"
"No, of course not. Taking direct donations from someone we're at war with is very illegal. But it's not like anyone can work out exactly the 'origin' of money that's passed through a lot of different hands. I mean, at what point do you stop, right? And our supporters -ones we can track- do make up most of our increased income. But lump sum donations when we became the leading anti-war party after our planetary government committed to L.E.G.I.O.N. membership? It wasn't hard to guess. And…"
For the first time since he started talking, he looks nervously in the direction of the main hiding place of most of his colleagues.
"'Guess'… I don't know or have any direct contact with any Reach person, so I could be wrong…"
I shake my head. "I'd probably assume that it's the Reach too. Both in your position and in my position. But can I.. assume that you're just interested in legal and peaceful political activism?"
"Of course."
"Then that's completely fine. And can I also assume that there won't be a problem with a representative of L.E.G.I.O.N. visiting… Well, arranging a meeting and discussing your complaints further at some point in the future?"
He takes a moment to look for a verbal trap.
"No..?"
"Excellent. It's been a pleasure to have met you. Please pass on my apologies to your colleagues for so disturbing them. We'll see ourselves out."
I turn around and lead-. Follow Lantern Gozzi out of the door. She leads the way to the far side of the street before stopping.
"I hope that your empathic abilities enabled you to get something out of that."
"His beliefs are genuine and natural. Looking around…" I unfocus my eyes as I try to apply empathic vision to the entire planetary population. Not precise, but… "I think their recent increase in support is as well. We'll need to trace that funding-."
"Already done."
"Then we'll pay the sources a visit, then follow up with the planetary government."
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moralrelativity
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Darko
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Some things are truly universal.
Not understanding politics is one of them.
Your dad was right.
Maybe 'so far humanoid normal'?
'how political'
Ahh, politics.
Maybe 'for disturbing them'
A Coluan with a power ring is a wonderful thing.
Maxx Crowley
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Does the ring give Para-Paul inhuman patience? Or is that an Enlightened thing?
My eyes were glazing over and I didn't sit through hours of that.
My eyes were glazing over and I didn't sit through hours of that.
hance1986
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That sounds like a cowardly cop out way of not making a decision. Any analysis has some kind of bias. The point is to still find what truth you can and use it effectively. This is just not even trying. It's like saying and accepting the game is rigged. Accepting helplessness.
I guess this guy fits in with a pretentious bunch like these dynamistic whatevers.
moralrelativity
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I think it's another example of British understatement. His colleagues were terrified and they evacuated. "... so disturbing them" is an understatement, but at least the "so" is there to give some emphasis that this was more than a little disturbance.
Chojin Patriarch
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Ah, good, he's finished. That whole thing took nearly an hour and a half? Impressive. Now, how much of what he said will be useful?
Well, it did record it, I assume, so you can go over it later and try to make more sense of it... If you want to, anyway. I suspect if someone gave me a lecture like that, I'd be half-asleep, or have been fidgeting within five minutes...
A bit more logical, but inevitably someone you don't want in charge gets control and wham, next thing you know you're at war. Or regressing into isolationism...
Yeah, that sort of arrangement would usually lead into a caste system or similar within a century or so... And caste systems generally don't work so well when people can have wants for things outside their 'level' of society...
Can't it be both? She is Coluan, after all, and this sort of intellectual exercise is in her wheelhouse...
Yes, I think he might be right... I'll bet the only reason OL wasn't having trouble showing boredom, discomfort or any other social cues is down to his Ring...
Oh, boy... He's fresh out of university, with little real idea of how the world actually works, isn't he... There's an aura of naiveté about him that few humans would manage to replicate...
Well, the mind control thing is really a side-effect, rather than a secondary function... And I'm surprised that's common knowledge. I'm guessing other Lanterns have had success with Branding.
Reasonable, I know. But... The background of Reach methodology in their expansion must have been revealed by L.E.G.I.O.N by now. Does this guy really not believe that the Reach are innocent here?
...That's one way of putting it... I almost feel sorry for this guy, when he realises he's working against the good guys in this scenario...The truly contrary would probably dismiss it as L.E.G.I.O.N Propaganda... Still, I suppose there's something deeper going on. Dox wouldn't have sent him in if it were that simple...
An interesting angle.
Ah... I bet they have been getting more money since the conflict started... But, where's that money coming from, eh?
Yes, this should be fascinating.
Ah. So, Reach agents funnelling money into anti-war organisations, and they get to be the biggest patsy.
Well, at least he's open about it. Benefit of him being so junior, I guess - upper management would likely try to deny things...
...Well. Not as naive as I thought.
Probably not, or again, you wouldn't need to be here asking questions, you'd have been given their identities to investigate...
Huh. Kid's smart. I had him pegged as just a nerdy believer, but what do you know, he's got brains.
And it's clearly weighing on his conscience, I see. If he really believes in his political stance, the whole Reach backing must be awkward, to put it mildly. You know, people poking their nose in where it isn't needed?
Aw, he's such a nice lad. Hopefully he doesn't get into any trouble.
Ideally including calling ahead and arranging neutral ground. I doubt OL wants anyone else to step in that social cowpat like he did.
Ah, she's invested now, isn't she? OL might well be able to stand back and see how she handles it.
So they were just in the right place at the wrong time. If another group had spoken louder, they'd probably be the ones getting investigated.
Hopefully without any shooting. That tends to make the diplomatic situation a little tense...
Well, it looks like these guys are off the hook, more or less. They're legitimately opposed to the war effort, but they're not being manipulated by the Reach directly... Now, to see what OL and Gozzi find as they follow the links up the chain... And hopefully there's not a Beetle waiting at the end.
Sockmonkey
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You know, if Sinister wasn't an idiot he'd just follow Scott and Jean on a date and snag the used condom from the wastebasket afterwards.
You know, the "comic writers have no sense of scale" is reeeeealy starting to get to me.
Gambit's power can apparently go from hand grenade to planet cracker.
Grimnar
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There comes a point where a people are such memetic cucks, it's probably better to kill them all off and start again.
Jesus fucking christ reading that gave me cancer.
King of Frost
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Oh was he being serious? I read that as him being sarcastic, especially with how he casually admits the large anonymous donations probably come from the Reach.
Darko
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Or go on a murderous rampage.
Politics may not be such an intellectually stimulating subject.
Ehh, some may replicate it.
Chojin, do you love Murphy?
Because you seem to try and bring him up a lot of times.
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NightmareWarden
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Enlightenment: Breaking your Lantern Oath, and the weight you put behind it, should be more difficult than breaking your personal lantern.
I don't think I'm cut out for wearing any of the Lantern rings. However taking an advisor role as Paul does to forge wielders into the best versions of themselves sounds intoxicatingly satisfying.
Lantern Gozzi's thoughts: "Underwhelming. This planet's information network is underwhelming, their political history is glacial compared to Vega, and the upcoming topics my.. teacher will focus will be imperfectly presented due to this functionary's thoroughness."
LGT: "Avarice and want... In days past I spent energy and time on obstacles I associated with disgust and inefficiency. Presently I am moving towards a new mindset which would seek vastly different outcomes. Problems I reflexively solved before may require a great deal more attention or they may require a very different approach to ensure bypassing them isn't counterproductive."
LGT: "What qualities will remain as a foundation, recognizable now and to whatever my new mindset becomes? Time. Orange light charge spent. My personal lists of hygiene, personal development, and socio-economic development intervention plots."
LGT: Independent of the realities, do I want the achievement of exotic orange light techniques to be challenging? So I want this power to be a fundamental part of me even after taking off the ring? Do I want the Corps to eternally wage war with the Reach and foes like them? Is it a better survival strategy to work in the thick of things... personally solving novel problems regularly or meticulously perfecting an algorithm for Orange Lantern decision making?"
Lantern Gozzi: "What do I want for myself- yes, what is my vision of my ideal role in the universe and how will other people help me realize it?"
LGT: "Avarice and want... In days past I spent energy and time on obstacles I associated with disgust and inefficiency. Presently I am moving towards a new mindset which would seek vastly different outcomes. Problems I reflexively solved before may require a great deal more attention or they may require a very different approach to ensure bypassing them isn't counterproductive."
LGT: "What qualities will remain as a foundation, recognizable now and to whatever my new mindset becomes? Time. Orange light charge spent. My personal lists of hygiene, personal development, and socio-economic development intervention plots."
LGT: Independent of the realities, do I want the achievement of exotic orange light techniques to be challenging? So I want this power to be a fundamental part of me even after taking off the ring? Do I want the Corps to eternally wage war with the Reach and foes like them? Is it a better survival strategy to work in the thick of things... personally solving novel problems regularly or meticulously perfecting an algorithm for Orange Lantern decision making?"
Lantern Gozzi: "What do I want for myself- yes, what is my vision of my ideal role in the universe and how will other people help me realize it?"
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
No, that's correct.
Among other things, it lets him see exactly why the other person finds it so interesting.
You say that, but I bet if I went around your house I'd find plenty of stuff made by [insert brutal dictatorship here].
Mors
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It's true, it's all well and good talking about social injustice and moral responsibility, but [insert brutal dictatorship here] makes cheap shit people can actually afford.
hance1986
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Since we had some good alternate universe Pauls, I'm interested in any thoughts Zoat has about an Orange Lantern Paul ? in the Babylon 5 universe since Zoat seems to like B5. What would stay the same and what would be different of B5 had a Paul with a power ring and a power source?
jasonh23761
Not too sore, are you?
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That was one of the more balanced political interactions I've seen in fiction. Well done.
Now I'm going to go lay down because man was that a bit frustrating to follow.
Now I'm going to go lay down because man was that a bit frustrating to follow.
theaceoffire
Versed in the lewd.
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It's too late to save this society, they've also been infected by the terror of politics.
it might be easier to burn the planet and play soft sad music to let go the memories of what could have been.
Mr Zoat
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I thought it might be amusing to have Future!Grayven appear in the Absolute Dominion, a spaceship larger than Babylon 5, announce that Apokolips was extremely isolationist and didn't want to have anything to do with anyone and then just hang around the place. Maybe have the PsiCorps try to recruit Lynne.
I generally feel that if you're writing science fiction then you shouldn't make any political group an obvious equivalent to a real world one, and not just because that would get me kicked off this site. Like how in the Discworld series Cheery/Cheri Littlebottom is a take on sexual identity that is radical but isn't the same as the more contentious aspects of modern human identity. It takes some of the bile out and lets people re-evaluate without directly hammering their prejudgements.
Darko
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I'm also imagining him having a word with Clarke about his policies and why he should reconsider them, as well as getting into a vague statement contest with Kosh for some reason.
And probably popping the Minbaris bubble of superiority.